Friday, February 13th may seem like a long way off, but there’s still reason to get excited..
…as we’re pleased to announce that we’re going to be bringing you new content, sneak peaks, and lots of awesome goodies throughout our episodic hiatus.
You’ll notice that this blog is going to be taking a temporary, holiday-induced hiatus after this Friday, but will be returning relaunched and redesigned around January 9th. Beginning that Friday (and every Friday leading up until our spring premiere of our first episode back — The Good Wound), we’ll be providing you with something special to get you in the groove for Terminator Fridays.
Something special, you say? Videos, clips, interviews, contests, giveaways, chats with actors and writers and producers — everything your heart desires! Our blog is going to be even more active than usual during January, giving you first glances at everything T:SCC.
So get ready, get set…
What if my heart desires a new episode?
Can I haz it? Pleeeeeeeeez?
Oh I can’t wait to see it! Especially chat with Lena :D:D. I hope there will be that ;p.
Greetings from Poland!!!
You could give away some more trucks, because that was certainly a draw. Did anyone even get a truck? I mean yeah it’s a dodge so you might as well have been giving away coupons to Long John Silver’s, but you’d think people would have been more excited about winning *something* at all.
the only i want is bring back the old formula of season 1 please..
can’t wait to february
Here’s a blog for you!
As John is being such a little selfish and unfriendly douchebag (or prat) to Cameron (which many of us don’t like to see in John this season; he wasn’t *this* dickish in T2!!)…
Why not revisit the smoothie incident where John and Riley don’t get Cameron a smoothie again. Cameron asks John for a taste of his, takes the cup, and dumps it over his fat head. John has an absolute look of shock on his face as he’s standing there with ice cold slush oozing down his face and shirt.
Cameron: “Peach… it’s a good color on you.” She walks over to the soda counter and buys herself a chocolate/mocha/banana shake (what she really likes) without saying another word to John. She doesn’t have to… she’s said EVERYTHING that needs to be said to the jerk. She walks by John and Riley, sucking on her straw.
Basically, more light, playful, and funny banter. It was well received last season and sorely missed this season.
James Cameron knew how to throw in humor into the most dire of situations.
“Aliens”:
[Vasquez is doing chin-ups in the unisex locker room]
Hudson: “Hey, Vasquez… have you ever been mistaken for a man?”
Vasquez: “No… have you?”
—
[After the drop ship crashes and blows up...]
Hudson: “That’s it man, game over man, game over! What the f–k are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?”
Burke: “Maybe we could build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh? Why don’t we try that?”
—-
Vasquez: “Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are.”
Drake: “Go, Vasquez. Kick ass.”
Vasquez: “Anytime, anywhere, man!”
Hudson: “Right, right. Somebody said ‘alien,’ she thought they said ‘illegal alien,’ and signed up!”
Vasquez: “F–k you, man!”
Hudson: “Anytime, anywhere.”
—-
“The Terminator”:
Detective Vukovich: “I hate these press cases, especially the weird ones. Where you going?”
Lieutenant Traxler: “To make a statement. Maybe make these jackels work for us. If I can get on the tube by 11:00, maybe she’ll call us. Well, how do I look?”
Detective Vukovich: “Like s–t, boss.”
Lieutenant Traxler: “Yo’ momma.”
—–
Sarah Connor: “So, Reese is crazy?”
Dr. Silberman: “In technical terminology, he’s a loon.”
etc. etc.
Awesome I cant wait.
Its cool that you guys interact even after all the hard work
Looking foward to feb 13 !!!
… and go!!
We will be waiting!! =D
(Greetings from Brazil!)
If Lena Headey came over to chat with us I’D FLIP!!!!!
..I think I’ll put that on my christmas wish list! shhshss
And Summer…!
Looking forward to…well, I pretty much check on you guys several times a day, so looking forward to your next entry.
And thank you much kindly for not abandoning us to our own devices for too long.
What would really help this show, heading into the new time-slot, is if you can convince the powers that be over at Fox to put Season 1 back up on Fox’s website and Hulu.com. And, see what you can do about not letting the season 2 episodes expire on Hulu’s website.
Does Fox plan on running any reruns of T:SCC between now and February 13th?
I think it would be a great idea if every Saturday afternoon in January, Fox aired a 4-5 hour T:SCC marathon, beginning with the pilot episode. I mean, it’s not like there’s anything of significance already in that time-slot.
Hey Dan,
Those were good points and examples. Analogy: Buffy the Vampire Slayer took a dark subject and filled it with sparkling wit and dialogue. By the end of the series, however, it was so dark and humorless, even the actors were turned off by the show.
But the Cameron thing! In a previous post you said the point was that Cameron and John were suppose to fall in love. I assume you mean in a way far beyond being a Stepford wife/fembot.
I thought the point was that Cameron was the most advanced, kick-ass, hunter-killer, infiltrator, learning system, weapon system ever created by man or machine, short of the hydrogen bomb
And the Connors are both happy when Cameron’s saving their rears and scared to death of her because they know they have no real control over her-especially Sarah! (I can see Sarah, “If you don’t do what I say, I swear I will figure out a way to take you apart bolt by bolt!” And in Cameron’s visual imaging screen you see, “Threat Level: NONE”)
But I did do as you asked and reviewed the series to see if there was even one hint that Cameron might be self aware, let alone have any slight ability to develop human emotion. And then I thought about Allison of Palmdale in a way I hadn’t thought about it before. When Cameron becomes Allison, she totally forgets she is a machine and begins to act like a real human girl to the point she is even extremely distraught when her mother doesn’t recognize her. It appears that everything Cameron knows about Allison came from close observation, interviews, and perhaps torture. We can conclude that the Allison persona came then not from Allison’s actual memories being somehow downloaded to Cameron’s chip, but by what passes as Cameron’s id creating a whole new individuality, kind of like a person with multiple personalities, only in this case cause by amnesia (I think my Mac gets that sometimes
) The Allison personality does indeed seem to exhibit self-awareness and an abundance of emotion. Even when she reverts to Cameron, she makes a very unusual and very un-Cameron like comment in the car–something to the effect, “That’s my last get out of jail free card, isn’t it?” Since the Connors offer no actual threat to her, you might conclude that at least for a moment she just might have “felt” something? I believe John’s answer is, “Damn right”, and Cameron becomes very quiet and looks almost contemplative. Her normal programming would have eliminated any facial expression or body language at all since it was superfluous to the situation.
So, Dan, I grudgingly admit you might be right and that there may be hope for an emerging Cameron personality. Maybe if John starts calling her Allison it might trigger something
The only problem is, I think you have to convince Josh, because I think he thinks of terminators like Sarah Connor does–its a machine! You can’t plead with it, you can’t reason with it, and it will never stop until you are DEAD!
sounds nice
Please, though, no spoiler clips. I can’t bring myself to watch those. If you have some non-spoilery behind the scenes stuff on the other hand.. Yummy
Keen too see some more behind the scenes photos & set shots.
Just in case Fox is listening:
Dear Fox,
Just because there are shippers and tin man groupies posting on this blog, this doesn’t mean they’re the majority. Some of us are very happy to see machines the way Sarah does and would be mightily peeved if this were to change.
Oh, and please consider not polluting the brilliance that is the Ellison/John Henry storyline with unnecessary characters like Weaver in the long run.
Thanks.
I know this post is a bit inappropriate… But its the most updated one here.
I would like to ask if anyone knows the title of the song played in the episode ‘Complications’, the part where Cameron & John was in the car, and Cameron was switching the radio channels, before Derek called her. It sounded like “… Let’s go! Let’s go!…”.
I’ve been looking for this song for freaking long already. So I hope someone can help me out haha.
Thanks…
Yes please redesign this page, it looks like an amateur site from the 90s.
Also FOX if you are listening. Please add episodes 1 and 2 back on FOX on Demand. I was planning to watch the entire season we have so far. But someone has removed these two episodes.
If you want to promote this tv series dont take them off the site.
TSCC is doomed to fail this way
“unnecessary characters like Weaver”
I disagree, weaver is the one that makes that whole storyline work. I think shirley has done a great job with the part of weaver.
I support the S-1 formula also.
I do hope that S-2 back 9 will get us back to that but I am now worried over the plans for cameron.
hey Dan did U see this on [desk of ed winston]
“But did you catch what Cameron told John she was thinking of getting
tattooed on her body? “A tiger. Or a wolf.” Animals, you might remember,
that were specifically held captive on the freighter ship Cameron tortured
Allison on in the episode Allison from Palmdale…”
this sounds to me like they are going to make cameron ………bad !!
I guess josh doesnt realize to most fans she is the star of the show.
all i ask is that you give plenty of runway regarding who will be chatting and when.
there are so many people involved with this show that i would love to chat with!!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
Shippers and Tin Miss groupies are the majority.
Weaver is a brilliant character. Shirley Manson is doing an excellent job. I hope they continue to deploy her physical abilities very sparingly.
I think it would have been great if we hadn’t known that Weaver was really a machine until John Henry points it out. Now, that would have been an incredible moment.
“this sounds to me like they are going to make cameron ………bad !!
I guess josh doesnt realize to most fans she is the star of the show.”
Hope he realizes that Cameron has supplanted Sarah and John as the most popular star of the show, bar none. Just like Arnold became the star of T2. It was supposed to be about Sarah and John, but Arnold stole the movie. His character was just more interesting and heroic.
Or Josh and Co. are in for a real rude awakening… LOL!!
More good and take-charge, and evolving Cameron! Less jerk-waddy, stupid Emo John! Unless, you can turn his character around and make him more likeable again with some real TALENT, SKILL, and LEADERSHIP QUALITIES.
You guys want the big ratings… don’t you?
Poke, poke, nudge, nudge.
“More good and take-charge, and evolving Cameron!”
ditto.
more Cameron period. especially like the pool hall scene.
Cameron at her best. on every level.
=)
Oh please, let us not get into to fights over who likes John/Cameron and who doesn’t. Personally, I think John/Cameron is the way they are headed. Cameron is different from others machines, as it’s been stated many times.
One thing I’m really hoping to see in the next nine episodes is the subject of Cameron thinking she’s dangerous and damaged. Which would lead to her trying to get Derek/Sarah to take her chip out.
During 2.11 I was almost yelling at the TV “Oh, please, someone give the poor machine a hug!”
I’ll be checking the blog every friday until Feb13!
To agree with the previous comments, Cameron is by far the most interesting character to watch develop on this show. I personally would love to know more about her role in the resistance in the future. The one she came from and the one that the current timeline is heading towards.
I kind of like the idea of Jesse getting sent back to prevent her from influencing John and I wonder what kind of future this timeline is heading for, with Cameron working for the resistance from day one with John. In this future, would she be as much of a leader as John Connor?
Can’t wait guys! Have a great break
Lee…if you look even more closely at “Allison…” you’ll see that Summer portrays Cameron-Allison ever-so-slightly more mechanical (or slightly less human, if you will) and lacking in full emotion than she does with Allison-Allison.
Summer’s ability to portray about five different takes on Cameron/Allison in various guises (in one, Emmy-reel-worthy episode) was fascinating to watch. She’s done more with our Tin-miss than many are able to do with less restrictive rolls. Major kudos to Summer.
You guys have done an excellent conspiracy to investigate various aspects of the evolution of skynet’s origins. You are attempting to kill it and create it at the same time. Cameron(Summer Glau)I imagine was a stroke of genius and luck(Fireflies demise). Youu have to work to defeat the evil machines and give birht to them at the same time.
The idea of telling a computer to measure and understand the old and new testament is a good start towards Armageddon.
Merry xmas to all and remember that your mistletoe is no match for my tow missile.
Ho, Ho, Ho!
I gotta agree with Dan on this one. Me and my brothers watch T:SCC religiously and pretty much the only reason they stick around is because of Cam and Summer’s AWESOME performance every week.
I’m hoping that the writers understand that the vast majority of people who watch this show can’t help but fall in love with Summer’s character. Just check out the online poll the termi wiki took a few months ago. Summer won like fifty percent of the vote!
My point is, they need to continue evolving Cam and all her quirks (the leather jacket fetish is totally amazing!) BTW JOHN BETTER NOT BE EMO IN THE NEXT HALF OF THE SEASON CAUSE IF HE IS CAM JUST NEEDS TO KICK HIS BUTT!
I can’t help mentioning that I keep thinking that Ellison trying to explain religion to Cro-Henry is a lot like Book trying to do the same with River Tam:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4584/firefly-jaynestown?c=622:712
Summer may not think she’s comedic, but she certainly knows what to do with the material.
Cameron should learn Buddhism and cleansing meditation while John Henry is learning the very worst book to learn about how to really treat people and nature: The Bible.
You pan through her room and see a small Buddha statue and some books on the teachings of the Dalai Lama. On the wall there is a poster that reads: “Free Tibet.”
One machine learns about peace and beauty and harmony and the other about the exact opposite.
I think that would say a lot.
I strongly agree we need reruns, preferably on FOX TV, but atleast on HULU! How will we get new viewers if they cant catch up this season?
You can buy S1. But not S2, and thats what new viewers will need.
i’m a little concerned about some things
like derek situation…we did’nt see to much from derek, he needs more action, you are wasting his value
john’s behavior, he was a dissapointing all this season
we all know understnad that he has 16 and he want normal things in his life but he didn’t show any sign of progress in his attitude. he is acting like stupid teenager angry with his mom like he have a normal life and nothing is going on…
WAKE UP dude, john needs to be in more missions,with cameron..she is his bodyguard for christ!!
the writers need to come back at the old formula of season 1 not separate the characters and break they chemistry
i will keep watching and supporting the show because i love it but some things has to change to make this season better and stay in the air for many years
@CJ Thanks for posting that link. I didnt realise that they had most if not all of the Firefly episodes on Hulu. this should tide me over til febuary. Plus the 1-6 season boxset of 24 as well. Also getting Season 1 of TSCC as well.YAY
Oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Does this mean more podcasts?!?
OOOOOH IM EXCITED!
I wonder what kinds of contests there will be…
oh, and I agree with Noah, a podcast or 2 would be awesome… I really miss those…
A big Holiday thank you for doing this blog!!
And … putting the effort to make it better in the new year! Thank you!!
My little Holiday wish would be to see Cameron in the future, before she was captured and reprogrammed, and witness how cruel and frightening she must have been to the Resistance (i.e. scenes of her infiltrating a camp, getting valuable information with her “assets”
and then slaughtering everyone. Very scary robot. I like bad Cameron!
I spent some time at a relatives house and guess what came on TV? T2 and then T3! So I watched them both, with T:SCC in mind, to see how this thread fits in the overall mythology.
Here’s just some of what I concluded.
Sarah being at Pescadero DID in fact MAKE her crazy. She was under therapy by a madman, and given heavy doses of extremely debilitating drugs - and probably electro-shock or a mixture of both. This was done for extensive periods of time, at least six months or more.
Both her and John have experienced several dozen people killed as collateral damage from T exploits against them. This would be heavy mental and emotional trauma for anyone. Remember, Derek was going to kill himself: when the only way to ultimately defeat the machines was to live!
John was a wimp in T3: the 101 model had to pick him up by his neck in order to “snap” him out of a hysterical tirade. He constantly complained that he was not some great world leader…in fact, when faced with an H-K in a corridor, it was his spouse who stepped up, picked up a gun and blew the thing out of the air! Obviously, some of the military training rubbed off from hanging around her dad…meanwhile, John never seemed to know anything of how to fight (wouldn’t he have seen a Bruce Lee movie?) or how to shoot…if he is such a techno-geek hacker extrodinaire then he should have been able to handle a game controller to play GoW even if he’d never seen one before.
I am a fan of the show, and we all want to see John grow a pair, but unless T3 is on an alternate timeline, then John is gonna remain a wimp - even though he he surrounded by strong personalities, and, it is clear that Skynet is completely determined to take him out - sending strong, determined machines to come after him and anything that makes up his support structure in the future.
You’d think that would make him really, really, really resolved to do whatever needs to be done to survive. His personality should really grow to the order of magnitude of the threat agin him: “that which does not kill me makes me stronger.” Instead, he’s still trying to get his head around the fact that the bombs ARE going to drop, maintaining a “why me” attitude which does him or anyone else any good. It’s a non-confront. The same type when something bad happens in a horror movie and some girl sees a dead body and starts screaming…giving away her position and making her the next target for the killer.
Every now and again someone like Sarah or S. Weaver in Aliens turns around and fights - and fights hard. Through T3, this never really happens with John, sorry to say. I hope it happens in T4 - they certainly portry him as “great leader” - at least him looks cool holding a pair of binoculars!
I also wonder why the group doesn’t use the intel from Derek and Cam (and Jesse & Riley) to round up targets that Skynet would want to take out in the future; people who go on record as part of John’s infrastructure, to protect them. Maybe it is felt that history will find a way to see them through to John’s time in the future, but this has been already proven several times to NOT be true. Besides, isn’t the motto of the group “no fate but what we make?”
I also think Cam is coming to be self aware - or at least has enough hidden objectives in her programming to allow her to not only not be under anyone’s specific control (much like Weaver), but she IS a “stealth” machine…
Her programming is to infiltrate covertly, and cozy up to her objective…that is why she was modeled after a slight little girl. Her only flaw is T’s can at best mimic human behavior. Problem is most of us are running our own set of social behaviors rather than operating on obervation and awareness and objectives! So the machine “acting” amongst us may in fact have more on the ball than most of us most of the time!
However, this veil is uncovered once she engages someone for any extended period of time. Its like talking to a customer service rep from India: they speak English, but something is definately “missing” even when they try to fit in with “American” venacular. So she comes off as being a bit “odd” at times, which is one of the really darling ascepts of this charater and this show.
We must never forget that she is a SPY and she is a ROBOT. Yes, computers can learn, and they can store data that becomes their experience. But she may or may not be able to “feel” (ballet dancing may have been a curiousity, not an artful and endearing experience).
I hope they keep her learning (the 101’s/1000’s/etc. are “learning computers” and did a fair job of interacting within our society) while keeping the aspect that she knows what her mission is: and it is not to “become human.” It is to use her abilities to get as close as possible to her target become completing her objective.
The Terminatrix got into a secure high level defense base in short order, and turned all their machines against them. I suspect Cam could do a LOT more…I think the group grossly underutilized her.
Speaking of which, wouldn’t tatoos give her some sort of identifying mark that trained observers (police, FBI, etc) could track her with? I think the tatoo bit was just a ruse to take Riley’s pulse and explain to John why she was in physical contact with someone who has clearly become a terget.
John is a dope, because he isn’t using her AS a machine who can identify when someone is lying, or use her for stealth or for her power. Instead of using her as his own personal Superman he treats her like an outcast Clark Kent!
They also don’t let her access other computers to destroy databases that may be harmful to them, acquire money and other resources and information, or monitor any suspicious activity reported by various agencies or developments companies that could carry forward Skynet-like activites.
Also, wouldn’t they be better off building their own clandestine compound somewhere with LOTS of heaviliy armed mercs, and EMP’s, lazers, planes, helicopters and whatever else that will help them in their efforts. Money shouldn’t really be a problem: I’m sure Cam would have no problem stealling funds both in cyberspace and out of locked vaults. They should have all sorts of valuables at their disposal. They’d be better off in LA as rich recluses; easy to be “off the grid” that way too - as long as they don’t date any A-list movie stars or hang out at rapper discos where shoot-outs and the pop hang out to photo them!
I really dig the thought that goes behind some of the comments here. As a group, and as a show I find this very rewarding. Hopefully, the TV Gods will see fit to treat this better than they did “The Green Hornet,” “Kung-Fu,” or “Lost in Space.”
@Chris: Wow, very deep.
T3 is on a different timeline, Mr. Friedman has said so himself. They are completely ignoring T3 and the upcoming T4.
All I can say is I hope something drastic happens to Cameron, making John wake and realise how much his casting her aside is bothering her. He needs to be nicer to her.
I’d also like to see Cameron in the future before she was scrubbed, being all badass.
And, I’d love to see the scene that Summer Glau did for her audition for TSCC. I really hope we get to see that in the show!!
I’m in Canada, so sadly when I watch TSCC it doesn’t help, but I hope moving it to Friday will.
Good luck!
Looking forward to all the sneak peaks and future episodes. I would like to wish the entire cast, crew, and staff a very Merry Christmas! Happy Holidays! Enjoy your little vacation!
Awesome! I can’t wait for all of the goodies that you’ll be handing out while we’re all starving for new episodes! Can’t wait for the blog redesign too.
Absolutely outstanding news! And a new design is always spiffy.
Happy Holidays all!
Uh-oh! I have another song comin’ on!
This one’s to show I’m not above wanting to see some real tenderness, love, compassion, and heart on this show besides pain and sadness, and death, and lying and being mean to one another. It would give this show so much more emotional depth and humanity than what it has now.
“When You Say Nothing At All” (my favorite version is the lovely Alison Krauss’ cover). From Cameron to John.
It’s amazing how you can speak right to my heart
Without sayin’ a word you can light up the dark
Try as I may I could never explain
What I hear when you don’t say a thing
The smile on your face lets me know that you need me
There’s a truth in your eyes sayin’ you’ll never leave me
The touch of your hand says you’ll catch me if ever I fall
You say it best when you say nothin’ at all
All day long I can hear people talkin’ out loud
But when you hold me near, you drown out the crowd
Old Mr. Webster could never define
What’s being said between your heart and mine
The smile on your face lets me know that you need me
There’s a truth in your eyes sayin’ you’ll never leave me
The touch of your hand says you’ll catch me if ever I fall
You say it best when you say nothin’ at all
The smile on your face lets me know that you need me
There’s a truth in your eyes sayin’ you’ll never leave me
The touch of your hand says you’ll catch me if ever I fall
You say it best when you say nothin’ at all
This IMHO is the PERFECT “love” song from Derek to Jessie.
Nazareth: “Hair of the Dog”
Heart breaker, soul shaker
I’ve been told about you
Steamroller, midnight soldier
What they’ve been sayin’ must be true
Red hot mama, velvet charmer
Time’s come to pay your dues
Now you’re messin’ with a A SON OF A BITCH
Now you’re messin’ with a son of a bitch
Now you’re messin’ with a A SON OF A BITCH
Now you’re messin’ with a son of a bitch
Talkin’ jivey, poison ivy
You ain’t gonna cling to me
Man taker, born faker
I ain’t so blind I can’t see.
Red hot mama, velvet charmer
Time’s come to pay your dues
Now you’re messin’ with a A SON OF A BITCH
Now you’re messin’ with a son of a bitch
Now you’re messin’ with a A SON OF A BITCH
Now you’re messin’ with a son of a bitch
NOW YOU’RE MESSIN’ WITH A SON OF A BITCH!!!…
First, I want to present my compliments. I have enjoyed every episode to date. Some much more than others, but none of them have been actually bad. A few of them, especiallyY in the first season, have reached the pinnacle of excellence that is nearly unheard of on television.
Yes, there is a “but”. I offer this feedback free of charge. Of course this means that it is worth slightly less than you paid for it. I may well be the only customer you have who feels this way, so please keep that in mind also.
First complaint - You folks have too many irons in the fire. This is nto a soap opera. This is supposed to be an action/adventure sci-fi show. Or at least that is what I thought when I tuned in. the target audience for a soap opera is not the same target audience as you are shooting for with an action adventure sci-fi show. Is it? Am I mistaken? ARE YOU trying to capture middle aged housewives?
There is nothing wrong with keep things interesting by weaving complex plot lines. But you have spent so much time showing off how clever you are that you have lost the audience (me) in a tangled thicket of irrelevant and unnecessary side tracks that, frankly, bore me. The first season was about Terminators. It was about a family who were trying to save the future by preventing Skynet from bringing about judgment day. This second season has been an angst fest about a the coming of age for a spoiled snot of a petulant teenager who needs nothing more than a swift kick in the pants, the ongoing struggle with depression of a single mom with emotional issues, the search for meaning of a lone bachelor struggling with the barrenness of modern life, and the flowering of a young woman’s search for meaning.
In other words, Horsepucky. I don’t watch Sluts in the City, I don’t watch Adultery-town, I don’t watch any of the other self-indulgent shows that spend all their time seeking to psychoanalyze the characters. And I have no interest in being subjected to that pain on TSCC either. Please have mercy. I tune into TSCC in order to see Terminators, the Connor family fighting Terminators, plot lines about affecting the future, Sarah struggling to keep John alive and herself if possible, John actually Pulling His Self-Centered Head Out Of His Spoiled Butt and Growing Up a little, and maybe watch them score a victory or two. I am not interested in exploring the deeper philosophical meaning behind it all. If that makes me shallow and insensitive… I don’t care. I am the one who pays for the sponsor’s products.
By the way. John is completely unbelievable. The kid supposedly spent his formative years in cventral american jungle mercenary camps. He CAN’T possibly be that naïve regarding women and life in general. The idea that Riley could manipulate him the way she does without provoking any suspicion at all on John’s part is impossible to swallow. He is reacting like a kid who has never been off concrete in his life, not someone who grew up around hard bitten professional killers and their prostitute concubines.
I recognize the reality of the situation. In the first season you were cooking with gas. The first season of the show was, in my opinion, better than T3. Then came the uncertaintly of whther you would be given a full second season. Naturally the writers wanted to show off their versatility by writing as many differing plot lines and varied situations as possible. If you had ended up looking for work you would have needed the resume. Same for the actors, you wanted to give them a chance to show off the skills in as many different aspects as possible.
But now you have a solid commitment for the rest of the season. Could you please go back to doing Terminator? The way you did it in Season 1?
And I also vote for putting Season One episodes back up on Hulu. I wanted to recommend the show to some of my family, but starting them off on Season 2, inferior as it is, does not seem like the best approach.
Congratulations. I love the series and I loved season 2. Sure the series is has a among the handsomest and most beautiful cast on TV but what really makes this series stand out is the quality of the acting which is phenomenal. Kudos to the director and the cast.
I am glad that season 2 did not just comprise of chase scenes and Cameron killing some T3. If they had done this, it would have reduced the show to being just another “Buffy-the Vampire Slayer” (Though that formula did work for Buffy for 7 seasons). There was great character development which makes me what season 3 even more.
Just a bit of advice to the writers. I see that T:SCC has struggled in the ratings. I love the show as is but I am a hardcore Sci-fi fan and not the typical viewer. I do believe that the casual viewer would have a difficult time jumping into the series due to the multiple complex plot lines. You try to compensate by the extra long preamble to the show but it is hard to tell how effective that approach is. I would suggest to try to keep each episode mainly a self-contained story (like Star Trek)until you gain a sure foothold in the fan base then you expand.
In a nutshell: (thanks to the last two posts that really said a lot of things I think a lot of us are feeling, but have not found the right words to convey)
Yes, Star Trek did focus on one story per episode, and it worked - we “got” it; the overall sense of where they were and what they were doing and why. We understood the mythology and could follow along with it. I’m saying this from personal esperience being a pre-teen when ST first aired…
It might be best (if the writers want to follow this line of portrayal) to run 2 hour specials (same night or on consecutive days) that allow for more to be shown. Or put it on the website like BSG does. They don’t have to be long 2 to 5 minutes, that fans could tune into for backstory snipets - if they WANT. Putting them into the mainstory most fans don’t like bc there’s only 44 minutes avail. The way that the eps are done now makes the viewer feel like that time is not as well spent as it could be.
To wit:
A machine does’nt care that it kills man or babies. It has no feelings. we can program them to do OUR bidding, but if they get to a point where they do their own bidding, all bets are off. We might be able to get their consent, buts that’s a big diff between an order. I wonder why Cam sticks w the Conners?
Showing Ellison trying to TEACH a machine ethics/morals is ONE interesting conversation that shouldn’t EVER go any further. He KNOWS machines are going to learn enough to be able to destroy man, and it is very STUPID to think that you are being a spy to keep an eye on them when in actual fact you are having a direct hand in pushing their pre-determined occurances along (handing over the dead T to Weaver, guiding John Henry to sentience). This guys is this era’s Myles Dison!
Also who cares about the “feelings” of the human characters? They KNOW the world is going to be blown up and mankind will all but be wiped out. That’s some heavy stuff to carry around! We get that. It’s gonna make for some irratic behavior. Granted.
But isn’t that WHY we love these characters? Because they know all this and STILL DO THIER JOBS? A thankless job, that no one is gonna hire them or pay them for.
But they keep trying, and trying hard.
Isn’t this the dynamic we enjoy - man vs. machine. We already know the machines can’t be negotiated with, can’t be reasoned with, and won’t ever stop until we are dead. Makes you wonder what the hell Weaver - and even Cameraon - are really up to.
That’s why we watch! Consensus?
Writers/Producers: give up more meaty substance that is the core of what makes T special (and has so for decades). Give us backstory clips off to the sidelines, where true fans can dig in and appreciate it. Hell, I’m sure most real fans would pay a small subscription fee to access them via the web, where they’d ALWAYS be available on demand.
Lastly, I live in the SF Bay Area. Here, the 49ers never seem to be blackouts (due to low advance ticket sales) yet the Raiders are from time to time. Both teams suck, but the Raiders have yet to figure out how to keep their product in front of casual fans so they can follow them. Bottom line: with so many intricate plot lines to follow and little details that show up as important in future eps, PLEASE see to it that ALL of the T:SCC eps are available on this website or Hulu.com or where ever.
Like Lost, T:SCC has to find its core values, and then bring the audience along into giving a crap about the side stories. Lost started simple: people crashed on a deserted island and are trying to survive. Could happen to anyone, thus had a wide appeal. T is about man vs. machine, some people who knew machines saw us as a threat brought about JDay and they are trying to stop it while the machines are trying to stop these people with pre-emptive strikes.
It’s already a popular mythology. What the producers need to do now is tap into what makes T viable and give us MORE of that. Yes, you have one of the smartest shows on current TV, but you do need to bring in more of the casual fan…you already HAVE a very potent and well established brand name. My governor managed to leverage this brand which you now control. Should be no prob, right?
As much as you think outside the box re the plot of T:SCC, I think you need to look at marketing in that manner too. The old paradigms of TV are eroding right before our eyes. But viewership is what pays the bills.
And this wouldn’t be the first groundbreaking sci fi show that was cancelled after being thrown into a Friday night cellar timeslot. Please do something - and do something special - while you still have bullets in your gun to fire!
I’ll try to be more succinct…
This IS Terminator. It’s primarily a sci-fi/action/drama. Heavy on the action and drama.
For the casual viewer this whole “three dots” and missions written on a wall in blood, dreams of turtles and metal cacti seems more like a Charlie Kaufman film than a James Cameron action spectacular.
You DO need more ACTION, SUSPENSE, TENSION, INTRIGUE, THRILL-A-MINUTE sequences.
Hell, I’d make Team Connor more like Mission Impossible where they have to use mad computer skills and tricks, tactical discipline, cloak ‘n’ dagger, spying, high tech gadgets, and sometimes just all out blowing sh*t up to take down Skynet BEFORE Judgment Day can occur.
More HUMOR, more FUN, more WITTY BANTER, SNAPPIER dialog
Less darkness, more HOPE
Much, much better cooperation and interaction between Sarah, John, Cameron, and Derek. Make them a TEAM. Use ALL their talents so that they are stronger against their foes… and more loving and caring of each other. That goes for all of them. They should be a FAMILY.
You tore the Connor clan apart, and went into crazyville with some of your stories, weakened John to the point of aggravation and your ratings dropped like a rock.
ONE fully fleshed out story per episode, even if they are connected. Not two, or three, or four at once. Many of your viewers have attention spans larger than a peanut.
MORE Cameron, MORE humanity, MORE caring. Make HER the hero. Make HER worthy of a long life. Make her MORE curious about the world she finds herself in, and sweeter and kinder to those she loves and cares about (it was the highlight of Season 1).
She’s by far the most interesting and popular character you have, and one of the most totally underutilized so far. She can’t just be a pretty backdrop.
NO MORE EMO JOHN!!! NO MORE JERK!! This is John Connor you’re messing with!!! Build him up WITHOUT tearing Sarah apart! You CAN do it! When Lauren came on in “Alpine Fields” everyone wanted HER to replace John Connor since he’s so unliked this season. She had a pair, where John, currently, does not.
Where are his smarts, his talent, his leadership skills and why aren’t his computer skills being utilized? Searching Google for Sarah about three dots does not qualify.
MUCH, MUCH MORE John and Cameron centralized stories. Again, it was their relationship and interaction that was the staple of season 1.
DROP Riley. You brought her on and the fans started tearing each other to shreds.
And as for the score and the songs… they need to feel more like an epic action/drama film and less blasé as is. I’m sure Bear can do better. And why not try Walter Murphy and his orchestra combined with some of the unearthly metalic additions of the T2 score by Brad Fiedel to increase the complexity and denseness of the music.
Really kick it up a notch or two or three!
I’d MUCH rather have a music score similar to these tracks:
(Predator: Main Theme) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=p2r1u1HQMcw
(Predator: Jungle Trek) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z4ll94hN_E
(Aliens: Going After Newt) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFamq3Snjw
(Terminator 2 original theme) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91-nER4ins
(The Fugitive: Stairway Chase) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=8No4Pzv_vPE
(The Village: Main Theme) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=gwCtz1afdIM
(The Village: The Gravel Road) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=lzAhubIwQDY
(E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial: End Credits) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=WQCUuZAfwnc
(The Lord of the Rings: Themes) http:// ***.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pxpV4QJi4
More powerful… more majestic… more dramatic… more epic!!
I’ll try to be more succinct…
This IS Terminator. It’s primarily a sci-fi/action/drama. Heavy on the action and drama.
For the casual viewer this whole “three dots” and missions written on a wall in blood, dreams of turtles and metal cacti seems more like a Charlie Kaufman film than a James Cameron action spectacular.
You DO need more ACTION, SUSPENSE, TENSION, INTRIGUE, THRILL-A-MINUTE sequences.
Hell, I’d make Team Connor more like Mission Impossible where they have to use mad computer skills and tricks, tactical discipline, cloak ‘n’ dagger, spying, high tech gadgets, and sometimes just all out blowing sh*t up to take down Skynet BEFORE Judgment Day can occur.
More HUMOR, more FUN, more WITTY BANTER, SNAPPIER dialog
Less darkness, more HOPE
Much, much better cooperation and interaction between Sarah, John, Cameron, and Derek. Make them a TEAM. Use ALL their talents so that they are stronger against their foes… and more loving and caring of each other. That goes for all of them. They should be a FAMILY.
You tore the Connor clan apart, and went into crazyville with some of your stories, weakened John to the point of aggravation and your ratings dropped like a rock.
ONE fully fleshed out story per episode, even if they are connected. Not two, or three, or four at once. Many of your viewers have attention spans larger than a peanut.
MORE Cameron, MORE humanity, MORE caring. Make HER the hero. Make HER worthy of a long life. Make her MORE curious about the world she finds herself in, and sweeter and kinder to those she loves and cares about (it was the highlight of Season 1).
She’s by far the most interesting and popular character you have, and one of the most totally underutilized so far. She can’t just be a pretty backdrop.
NO MORE EMO JOHN!!! NO MORE JERK!! This is John Connor you’re messing with!!! Build him up WITHOUT tearing Sarah apart! You CAN do it! When Lauren came on in “Alpine Fields” everyone wanted HER to replace John Connor since he’s so unliked this season. She had a pair, where John, currently, does not.
Where are his smarts, his talent, his leadership skills and why aren’t his computer skills being utilized? Searching Google for Sarah about three dots does not qualify.
MUCH, MUCH MORE John and Cameron centralized stories. Again, it was their relationship and interaction that was the staple of season 1.
DROP Riley. You brought her on and the fans started tearing each other to shreds.
And as for the score and the songs… they need to feel more like an epic action/drama film and less blasé as is. I’m sure Bear can do better. And why not try Walter Murphy and his orchestra combined with some of the unearthly metalic additions of the T2 score by Brad Fiedel to increase the complexity and denseness of the music.
Really kick it up a notch or two or three!
I’d MUCH rather have a music score similar to these tracks:
(Predator: Main Theme) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=p2r1u1HQMcw
(Predator: Jungle Trek) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z4ll94hN_E
(Aliens: Going After Newt) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFamq3Snjw
(Terminator 2 original theme) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91-nER4ins
(The Fugitive: Stairway Chase) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=8No4Pzv_vPE
(The Village: Main Theme) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=gwCtz1afdIM
(The Village: The Gravel Road)***.youtube.com/watch?v=lzAhubIwQDY
(E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial: End Credits) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=WQCUuZAfwnc
(The Lord of the Rings: Themes) ***.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pxpV4QJi4
More powerful… more majestic… more dramatic… more epic!!
Someone said something about catering to the casual fan? Worst idea ever. It can only alienate core fans and kill the integrity of the show. Lost may be entertaining at times, but its mystery aspects are probably the most shamelessly written crap television has ever seen. No one needs that on Sarah Connor. Even the three dots story got old weeks ago.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the show as it is now as far as the premise, ideas and themes are concerned. It’s just that there are three redundant and occasionally annoying characters (Jesse, Riley, Weaver), who I assume will be history soon enough, and John and Sarah need some of the love and attention that Cameron and Derek are getting in the writers’ room, even if Derek is currently being wasted on the big mystery Jesse storyline instead of being paired up with John more often.
And needless to say, more Dillahunt.
Ever since you snuffed Cromartie (you wankers), the show seems to have been overrun by characters who are either crazy, suicidal, depressed, hysterical or constantly conniving. Who wants to watch that week after week? Let the leads deal with their problems and be all those things if they must, but please limit the weekly friggin’ injection of pathos and $#I7 to them.
And for the love of Yoda, no Cameron developing feelings. She is awesome just the way she is.
Integrity? Integrity? The show started losing it BIG TIME right after Samson & Delilah by continuing to neuter John Connor… he went BACKWARDS as a character for godsake!!
That’s a huge reason T3 tanked: John Connor was a sniveling weinie.
Cameron NOT gaining emotions and a kind of humanity is a complete slap in the face of the original two movies!! That is NOT what James Cameron was going for… there was a reason Arnold gained them. It had nothing to do with AI at all.
Now Sarah has gone past Linda Hamilton’s character into a whole new kind of crazy. Linda’s Sarah had good reason to go nuts… she knew what was in store for the Earth, but no one would believe her except the ghost, the memory of Kyle Reese.
T2’s Sarah knew that JD MUST be stopped NOW and it drove her and it then drove John and Arnold.
These characters now have no sense of urgency. They lollygag around, for lack of a better description.
They MUST get this show back to its James Cameron roots or it is in DEEP trouble.
Mark my words.
please make this season better
the show needs more action, more connors team, more john and cameron, more derek, more of john connor and not john baum
we need the chemistry of season 1 if we want to see another season
Here’s a great song for TSCC and Cameron, but’s it’s not really about Cameron at all! A bit of a tongue ‘n’ cheek riff.
Grace Potter And The Nocturnals
“Ah Mary”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lp7e6V3MOI
She’s skilled at the art of deception and she knows it
She’s got dirty money that she plays with all the time
Yeah, she waters the garden but maybe she just likes the hoses
She puts herself just a notch above human kind
Ah Mary
She’ll bake you cookies then she’ll burn your town
Ah Mary
Ashes Ashes, but she won’t fall down
She’s the beat of my heart
She’s the shot of a gun
She’ll be the end of me and maybe everyone
Yeah
She’s the beat of my heart
She’s the shot fo a gun
She’ll be the end of me and maybe everyone
Call her a bully, she’ll blow up your whole damn playground
Pour her a drink and watch it go straight to her head
She’ll take you so high up and cover her eyes as you fall down
Then in the morning, don’t be surprised if you’re dead
Ah Mary
She’ll bake you cookies then she’ll burn your town
Ah Mary
Ashes Ashes, but she won’t fall down
She’s the beat of my heart
She’s the shot of a gun
She’ll be the end of me and maybe everyone
She’s the beat of my heart
She’s the shot of a gun
She’ll be the end of me and maybe everyone, Ohh Mary
(*song rift*)
Yeah
She’s the beat of my heart
She’s the shot of a gun
She’ll be the end of me and maybe everyone
Ohhh, Mary Mary Mary America
Ohhh, Mary Mary Mary America
OH, AMERICA!
Here’s one more for Cameron!
It’s another fun rocker from Grace Potter:
“Mastermind”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=B1xwfF5q4ak
Can you believe in somethin’
Bigger than what you left behind?
Like a balloon on a long string
The recipe for the mastermind
One part sugar
Two parts feelin’
Three cups full of bottled lightnin’
Four parts water
Five parts believin’
Mix it all together and you put both feet in
Can you rely on your own two hands
To cut you free from all that made you blind?
One in a million would be given this chance
It’s the recipe for the mastermind
One part sugar
Two parts feelin’
Three cups full of bottled lightnin’
Four parts water
Five parts believin’
And you mix it all together and put both feet in
Oh won’t you be my mastermind?
Oh won’t you be my mastermind?
I said I wanna feed you and make you shine
Oh won’t you be my mastermind?
[BREAK]
One part sugar
Two parts feelin’
Three cups full of bottled lightnin’
Four parts water
Five parts believin’
Mix it all together
Mix it all together
And you put both feet in!!
Happy Holidays to the entire T:SCC staff. Enjoy the time off. You guys deserve it.
Sorry guys, I’m on a roll!
This nifty rockabilly song sums life up in a neat little package. It’s one of Stephen King’s favorites, and one of mine too!
Dire Straits: “The Bug”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=Kii9R2iC3GY
Well, it’s a strange ol’ game - you learn it slow
One step forward and it’s back to Go
You’re standin’ on the throttle
You’re standin’ on the breaks
In the groove ’til you make a mistake
Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the Louisville Slugger, baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re gonna lose it all
You gotta know happy - you gotta know glad
Because you’re gonna know lonely
And you’re gonna know bad
When you’re rippin’ and a ridin’
And you’re comin’ on strong
You start slippin’ and slidin’
And it all goes wrong because
Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the Louisville Slugger, baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re gonna lose it all
One day you got the glory
Then you got none
One day you’re a diamond
And then you’re a stone
Everything can change
In the blink of an eye
So let the good times roll
Before we say goodbye, because
Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug, yeah!
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the Louisville Slugger, baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re gonna lose it all
I said
Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the Louisville Slugger, baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together, baby
Sometimes you’re gonna lose it all
The bug!
Okay, one more and I’ll call it quits.
This has the current vibe I’m getting from Sarah and John, especially this season, to a tee. It sure isn’t helping John, that’s for darn sure!
Paul Simon: “Loves Me Like A Rock”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmyt3NnVooM
When I was a little boy, (when I was just a boy)
And the devil would call my name (when I was just a boy)
Say now who do,
Who do you think you’re fooling? (when I was just a boy)
I’m a consecrated boy (when I was just a boy)
Singer in a Sunday choir
Oh, my mama loves, she loves me
She get down on her knees and hug me
Like she loves me like a rock
She rocks me like the rock of ages
And loves me
She love me, love me, love me, love me
When I was grown to be a man (grown to be a man)
Mmm, and the devil would call my name (grown to be a man)
Say now who do,
Who do you think you’re fooling? (grown to be a man)
I’m a consummated man (grown to be a man)
I can snatch a little purity
My mama loves me, she loves me
She get down on her knees and hug me
Like she loves me like a rock
She rocks me like the rock of ages
And loves me
She love me, love me, love me, love me
And if I was the President (was the President)
The minute the Congress call my name (was the President)
Say now, who do,
Who do you think you’re fooling? (who do you think you’re fooling)
I’ve got the Presidential seal (was the President)
I’m up on the Presidential podium
My mama loves me
She loves me
She get down on her knees and hug me
Like she loves me like a rock
She rocks me like the rock of ages
And loves me
She love me, love me, love me, love me…
Love me like a rock!…
That’s what I mean by adding a little spark to the show. The power of good music is one way to do it.
Dude, I usually enjoy reading your opinions but if I want to read music lyrics, I’ll google for those… No need to put all that stuff here!
Scy800 - “truer words” on the song lyrics… titles and artists would be more than enough.
I hate when lyrics suddenly pollute the discussion. It’s like musical theatre. Let’s stick to discussing the show, not singing about it.
Just trying to be helpful.
Well, here are a couple cool songs WITHOUT the lyrics [no thanks... grumble, grumble].
Google away for those…
This reminds me of John and Cameron together on the open road. The kind of song where you stick your feet or arms out the window (or put the top down), crank the radio, and just put it in cruise. This also speaks of Thomas Dekker’s musical background (which I wish they would utilize on TSCC to help round out John Connor).
Grace Potter and the Nocturnals: “Stop The Bus.”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=gOpdGFkKA8Y
These also fit quite well IMHO:
Also from Grace Potter:
“Falling Or Flying”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=OEKnYA2b7NQ
These two are for Cameron:
“Ragged Company”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=PtHpR01HDBA
“Nothing But The Water”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrdfFpxTXQ
Enjoy! Rock this show!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
Dan, I never write comments on blogs and do not think this is the place to have a theological discussion, but I cannot let your statement on the Bible “being the worst book to learn about how to really treat people and nature” go unanswered.
Jesus summed up to the 2 most important laws in the Old Testament as loving God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Everything good in this world flows from those two commands. The Bible is an overarching story of salvation of man by a loving God. It is the best book to guide our lives.
Dan, you’re probably chasing readers away. It might be best to stick with postings directly about the episodes themselves, and not how some obscure videos or songs might be related to the characters in some way.
There’s probably a better audience for that over at the FOX message boards. Seriously.
And no I’m not the self-appointed blog police. But it’s beginning to look as though they’ll need one here. Goodness gracious.
I must agree with Gary. I usually skip reading very long post and those with song lyrics…
I think personal websites or blogs are more appropriate for that stuff. Just put a link to your website in your post. If we are interested, we will follow your link.
Thanks.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all TSCC fans!
no hate intended from me Dan. just think you should link songs and artists. lyrics can be pursued or people already know them.
Merry Christmas.
Yes, please stop with the song lyrics. This isn’t the American Idol blog.
Thanks boxer. Just sharing what I think are some good songs and artists and ideas about sprucing up the music score.
Obscure thoughts, maybe, but music IS the universal language.
Hate to say I told you so Dan.
Thanks for someone saying something about the songs, I’ve been meaning to but I just couldn’t find a polite way to do it
Doesn’t matter anyway Logan as I doubt there will be a Season 3 anyway.
It’s just not the Terminator most viewers probably thought they were going to get and hence the steep decline of viewers throughout Season 1 and the drop off after Samson & Delilah.
Fox moved it to Friday nights to try and kill it off, the same with Dollhouse.
I wish this show had been produced and written by James Cameron himself, so there’d be no one else to blame if it didn’t meet with expectations.
I think people were hoping that after the debacle with T3 that this show would redeem and revitalize the franchise, but it hasn’t exactly worked according to plan.
After the first two films and the outpouring of love for those sci-fi/action classics, you just expect certain things from something calling itself TERMINATOR.
I’m hoping the Back 9 will prove me wrong and that they will be kicking things into high gear, but I’ve been disappointed a lot this season.
They need to do a severe 180 and bring things back to the movie roots, where it all began.
In fact, I wonder how many of the writers actually ARE big fans of “The Terminator” and Terminator 2.
If they really and truly were, I doubt we’d be seeing these kinds of hiccups in the characterizations of John, Sarah, and Cameron.
There is always the risk of diverting away from the original story and characters too much when they are already iconic.
And why they would even bother to cast ANYONE or even show Kyle Reese when Michael Biehn could not be topped is beyond me. It would be like having flashbacks with Uncle Bob with someone else besides Arnold in the roll.
Biehn exuded toughness and an edge because of his hard life in the future, where as this new actor looks almost like a baby-face.
They screwed up with Dr. Silberman too. You can’t get Earl Boen, then don’t even try to cast anyone else! Earl played Dr. Silberman perfectly.
Cameos work because only THEY know how to play their rolls.
You, obviously, couldn’t get Linda or Edward to reprise Sarah and John because of their ages, but practically everyone else you could get to do quick reprisals to tie more perfectly into the movies.
The writers must remember the lessons of Superman Returns and the Batman Franchise… if you’re going to do your own thing with a tried and true, and iconic and beloved movie franchise either REBOOT (like Batman Begins) and start over from scratch with your own vision, or fail miserably (like Superman Returns) when you don’t use the Richard Donnor template on which to base your story and your characters.
Hybrid styles never work.
Dan, you’re a funny man. No offense intended. But you’re talking about how it was crazy for them to show Kyle Reese without Michael Biehn to play the character, or to show Doc Silberman without Earl Boen.
What about Sarah Connor without Linda Hamilton? She’s the biggest and main character of the franchise and yet they pulled it off. Lena Headey has made the role her own. And, in my opinion, the two episodes that we’ve had of him, Jonathan Jackson has done an AWESOME job of taking over the iconic role of Kyle Reese.
They couldn’t get Earl Boen, because correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s retired. And since he is, we are never to see Sarah in the mental hospital because he’s retired? That’s silly.
Actually, what would be more silly is to have SOME people from the movie reprise their role and some aren’t. They have fresh faces for everyone and I think that was the wisest and overall best choice.
Any actor that was in the first two films are way too old to play any of their characters on the show. It just wouldn’t make sense. And yeah, to be honest, if they were to have a flashback of Uncle Bob I would rather see a young Arnold look-alike than a 60 year old Arnold. I think if they were to ever get him (which I doubt), they would probably use him as another Term and not a “flashback.”
It just doesn’t make sense to even think they could use the same actors and it doesn’t make sense to not ever show these characters because of it.
In many ways, the Sarah Connor Chronicles is BETTER than the movies. Especially for a weekly show.
The characters and format of the movies just wouldn’t work in a weekly series. I’m surprised not everybody sees that.
And the work they’ve done with these characters is just great. It’s really ABOUT the characters, and that’s what the fan base enjoys.
If viewers are dropping off because they wanted to see the movies remade in a weekly show, even with some of the same actors(?!), let them. That’s not what this show is about.
And even though I enjoyed the chemistry between Sarah, John & Cameron better in the first season, they’ve done some very good work this season too. I’m anxious to see the next nine.
Bruce Davison did a great job in The Demon Hand! Wonderful actor. He was a great choice.
And no they didn’t move the show to Fridays to kill it. If they wanted to end it, they wouldn’t have to do that.
Dan, we like music as much as anybody, this just doesn’t seem like the appropriate place to put all that stuff. Set up a blog and link to it or something. It’s very easy, and everybody will be happy.
In past posts I’ve shown how they could bring back someone like Robert Patrick as a guest star in the same T-1000 roll and then morph him into Weaver, and tie it all back to T2.
Dick Miller is still around and still acting. He could do a quick cameo as the gun shop owner. There are ways to explain his appearance.
Michael Biehn could easily play young Kyle and Derek’s father. He’s aged enough.
But you didn’t need to cast anyone in the Kyle role, just reference him. Especially if you aren’t going to hire someone who has the same grittiness as Biehn portrayed in “The Terminator.”
And NO I don’t like how they changed the character dynamics from Season 1 to Season 2. As I’ve been reading a lot over this break it seems like I’m not alone in that sentiment.
John is still severely under utilized and is shown in the worst possible light.
Cameron is dumped on all the time, or doesn’t do much of anything anymore (the fights are very quick and two of them were very easily wrapped up). The two stand alone’s with her were pretty darn good mainly because of Summer’s awesome acting. But I hate how they keep pulling away any progress she seems to be making at the last minute.
Most John and Cameron interaction is minutes or seconds this season.
No one is training to get any better. John isn’t being shown to have any skills rather than getting into trouble or being a wanker. There is no hint of any kind of brilliance whatsoever.
Derek has lost his edge from Season 1.
Cameron is losing much of the wonder and mystery they hinted at in “The Demon Hand.” They took that away when they implied that the only reason she danced was because it was a mimic of Allison Young.
Now she’s too robotic yet again. Never moving forward. John isn’t progressing either.
Riley is one of the worst decisions they could have possibly come up with. Not because of Leven, but how she’s been used. She hasn’t made John normal, she’s made him terribly inept and shockingly rude, with horrible decision making “skills.”
Then they have her try to kill herself with very little dramatic tension. It’s done quickly and a quick cut to commercial.
If Riley was important, why didn’t they have her backstory as a stand alone episode?
Plus, I must go back to the mistakes they are making with having three or more side stories going on at once during an episode.
It feels like you are getting snippets of story and it doesn’t feel movie-like, but too episodic.
The X-Files seemed like a mini-movie every week.
It lasted for NINE seasons, even with the move to Fridays.
Since I don’t have a blog, I’ll have to give a Youtube link again.
The Who: “Eminence Front”
It works IMHO. Groovy classic tune!
***.youtube.com/watch?v=-u0GJdNu1Ds
I think this show is great. The first 2 Terminator movies are great too. But I can leave with the fact that no actor from the movies play in the show. It will be too weird…
However, I do prefer the intrigue development of season 1 over season 2 but I enjoyed most of the episodes. I’m sure that all the TSCC team put their heart to make this show work and that they have a great respect for the Terminator franchise.
I hope that the remaining episodes will give us the answers to most of the questions raised by the first 13 episodes. And, maybe some raised in season 1 in the Dungeon and Dragons episode.
But I think you’re still missing the point of the show.
The producers, writers & actors started with the Terminator gound work and made it into something of their own. Imagine how bored they would all be (and us too), if they just rehashed the movies.
This John Connor character is intended to grow over time — if you’ll let him. Give it time.
The story about Riley now has become MUCH more interesting than I thought it would. I’m really looking forward to see what they have planned for that part of the story.
It’s ok if you’re not enjoying it. Everyone has different tastes and expectations. If you don’t care for the show, then why are you here? There are plenty of other shows out there. Something for just about everybody.
Etienne, that was a reply to Dan. Sorry.
How can they make John become a man in 3 easy steps?
1) Get rid of Riley (bad MOJO!!)
2) Train him to be a leader and a tactical strategist if he doesn’t show promise (as of now). Let him improve his computer and tech wizardry. Lauren has more strength and she was on for ONE episode… ONE. Why is everyone clamoring for her to come back? John is WORTHLESS. Let him get involved and USE HIS BRAIN!!
3) Get Cameron and John back together STRONGLY (physically, mentally, spirtually… WHATEVER!) because she seems to be the only logical choice and is thinking more clearly than most of them.
and a BONUS
4) Snap him out of his selfish and childlike stupidity and stop being a jerk to Cameron and his mother!!!!! Or I’ll have to take a 2×4 to his head. LOL!!
Thank you for listening.
GARY:
Why does everyone who doesn’t agree with how to IMPROVE this show, not DUMP IT, but IMPROVE it always say if you don’t like it then leave?
There are elements that I do like or I wouldn’t be watching at all.
I loved the moments with John and Cameron, but not how he now treats her currently, and they are few and far between. The chemistry has been broken that worked so well in Season 1. It was fun and playful and intriguing, but now it’s too hostile.
I liked Summer’s portrayal of Cameron in the two stand alone episodes, but I don’t like how they made her seem so cold and heartless at the end of “Self Made Man.” Again, I’m not the only viewer who didn’t like this. Many of my friends who watch didn’t either.
Two steps forward, three steps back.
John seemed to be maning up nicely at the end of Samson and Delilah, but then BAM! he reverted to a man-child. There are 16 year olds I know who could run circles around John Connor and would be more than willing to FIGHT and FIGHT HARD and SACRIFICE a lot if called upon. And J.D. is the very worst possible outcome (even though it’s fictional).
It’s the INCONSISTENCIES more than anything that bug me, besides the carved up story lines during each episode. Again, I don’t have A.D.D. and I like fully fleshed out stories with a lot of depth, not just superficial skimmings on the surface.
And this show cannot just be about Sarah… it should be a journey of discovery and enlightenment for three characters, and you know which ones they are. FOCUS on John, Sarah, AND Cameron and you’ll go places.
Gary wrote:
[quote]
“This John Connor character is intended to grow over time — if you’ll let him. Give it time.”[/quote]
How much time does he need? They have had a full season and a half.
The middle school juvenile delinquent John Connor in T2 was tougher, smarter, and more street savvy than the JC in the second season of TSCC.
In Samson and Delilah, after he was forced to kill a man to save his mother, he went into a bathroom and cut his own hair in a symbolic act. I thought at the time that it was intended to show him straightening up and symbolically stepping up to the responsibilities of manhood and leadership.
Instead, what do we get? “Why didn’t you protect me when I was killing him? Waaah!!!”
Oh dry up child. I wanted to reach through the screen and smack the brat. Alpine fields had Sarah calling home to talk to JC about supper. Seriously?
*sigh*
THIS is the savior of mankind? THIS is the heroic figure whose unrelenting rage and driven strength of purpose raised the hopes and determination of a beaten people and led them to victory against the seemingly unbeatable machines?
Gimme a break. Either have JC straighten up, or let Derek take him out in the woods and beat some sense into him, mano y mano. He needs SOMETHING to justify his existence. Right now, the John Connor in season two is the very epitome of a whining momma’s boy.
Dan if you haven’t noticed, John has used his brain. We see John a lot LOT more than we saw Lauren, so we’re going to see his good times and bad times. The boy can’t be perfect and great all the time. He’s gonna mess up, especialy since he’s a teenager and we’re seeing that.
Why do the shippers think that putting John and Cameron together would fix the show’s problems? Oh man, it’s the worst idea that I can think of. John and Cameron weren’t close to being “together” in season 1, it’s all shady memories shippers are changing around to suit their needs. There’s no evidence that Cameron is the best and logical choice for John except for the fact that she’s hot and Summer Glau and Thomas Dekker do have good chemistry together. But, seriously, putting their two characters together would not improve this show. It would kill it.
Wastrel, I think a lot of people got screwed over by the Fox promos. They kept going on and on about John would become a man as if it would happen in one episode. John is on that journey throughout this ENTIRE season.
Give the fictional boy some slack. He did kill a man.. that isn’t going to make you into a man. That seriously screws with your head and it did with his. He acted out, maybe we didn’t like it, but it sure was realistic. He’s grown a lot in these 13 episodes and he’ll grow more in the last 9.
If you want to see John Connor being the savior of mankind at 16 then why even have the show? Doesn’t anyone think the things that made John Connor in the future so hard and gritty and focused and angry is Judgment Day actually happening, him being in prison, and all that post-apocalpytic junk? He’s 16, he’s had a crappy life, sure, but the catalyst for his life hasn’t happened yet and that’s why we’re not going to see this FutureJohnConnor at 16 years old.
Wastrel,
A-men brotha!!
Maybe we could both help Derek, Sarah, AND Cameron beat the holy hell out of him.
I’ll go get my lead pipe and we can call John over for a Snipe Hunt in the back 40.
Mwaaahaahaahaahaa!
Wow. You guys, that PART OF the story here. I don’t know how it can be said any more plainly. He’s NOT the leader of the Resistance. Not yet. That’s PART OF the story.
But as I already mentioned, everyone has different expectations.
And no, of course it doesn’t mean you have to leave and not post. But if I didn’t care for the show and what the writers & actors are doing, I sure wouldn’t be here……..
I think Dan is the voice a lot of fans would like to have said, but don’t chime in…
I recall that the thing I liked most about the E-Files was that it WAS like a mini-movie almost every episode. Also, their BEST work was the stand alone horror type eps - but that didn’t translate into a longer movie. Go figure.
I am certain the producers and writers of T:Scc mean well and are trying to do a good job. But even if they had Arnold in this series on a regular basis it probably wouldn’t raise the ratings over long.
The show does have some contraints that I believe is leading us in the plot development: I believe the cost of doing big visual effects necessary for such an epic prevents them from doing one ep/one story plots. So they give us a bunch of drama along several simulaneous thredlines so they can keep moving forward until they get a go-ahead on their sustained funding. (I think they are doing what they can, bless their hearts). I also think they are doing a good job of writing, except that we as viewers can’t hop on more than one log at a time to get across the river - they do this with 24 (which was a ground-breaking proposition) but I am not sure if they are trying to do the same thing with this show (it is hard to follow their timelines, most of the time).
We loved Sarah in T1 and T2, that is a given. I don’t think anyone could have EVER played a better icon than what Hamilton did with her body, her compassion, and her moral grounding. She was driven and conflicted at the same time: what if a human got in the way of her blowing up Skynet? She’d attempt murder, which she did do. Funny, that she never killed anyone in Central America off camera…
However, Lena has one us all over. It’s not her fault we don’t get to see more of her WHILE she’s alive - she doesn’t write the cripts! Ditto for John or Cameron - which I think we all agree nee to be our BIG THREE in this show.
As for Derek, I just wonder where the hell he is and what the hell he’s doing most of the time. He certainly isn’t playing bodyguard to/for John. It’s almost as if he harbors some resentment…
John in T2 was a brat that hadn’t come to grips with his destiny yet. In T3 he still hadn’t grown up - why would you cruise on a motorcycle going 80+ MPH on a mountain road in the LOS Angeles region and you have nothing to do, no place to go, and no one to see in such a hurry? He wasn’t the strong one - his future wife was.
Unfortunately, we don’t get to meet her UNTIL T3 - and she doesn’t know THAT she is that strong (yet).
So our John - as much as we’d like to make him into this “great world leader” IS gonna remain a limp fish for us. Sorry! It can’t be any other way…
However, they could show how the people around him collectively help to prop him up along the way - which ultimately leads to their demise: he was ALONE in T3, remember. No Cam, no Derek, no Jesse or Riley. What happened to them?
Cam dancing was her pinacle. She does have a learning computer, right - for the purpose of making her a better killer? She IS an infiltration cyborg, right? This was a major breakthrough premise of the first season. Not that other T models weren’t pretty good at it, but they stopped having Cam do what she does. The writers should watched eps of “Alias” for a hint…
I’ve yet to see her slide up next to a target and just reach out and break its neck, and then melt away into public… We’ve seen her do very little tactical deployment, other than the dinner toast she gave.
At least Weaver is doing some of this, but not enough. She’s more of a threat out getting what she wants by killing people; we already know the military-industrial complex can buy people’s lives anyway they want.
Why Ellison would chose to turn over sophisticated warfare machinery to a person in charge of such a company that has the capability to manufacturer such (if they had the technology) is beyond me. The conners SHOWED him proof of JDay! Has Weaver? Didn’t he NOT trust her at first? What changed - that she put him on the payroll?
And can’t anyone (Cam, John, Weaver) make a detection device that enable T tracking in a city - so someone would know how many are in an area at a given time? What happened to the Aussie T that wacked Sergio’s nephew? Who was his accomplice? We don’t T’s have some basic coding that allows them to work together as a team - few plans of such magnitude are made without dealing with contingencies. No backup? Please!
And why is all the fighting always hand-to-hand cyborg or with guns? Lots of stuff can do you in - even if you are a T…will Cam have to set off an EMP to stop Weaver, thus sacrificing herself to get the BOTH of them?
Stay tuned? The SciFi.com website doesn’t think so. But they are tracking the whole network TV programming landscape. I’ve lived in Hollywood and know a few folks in movie and music: they all think TV is the craziest thing to follow.
If Fox were smart, they’d allow for this show to run through the rise and fall of T4 ticket sales, and see if this is the boost that will raise the ratings to a whole new level. I’d give it a season four if only beacuse it does have the potential to find an audience AND it is a lot better that the reality show/comedy show/hacked crime drama/soap opera suburban drama drivel they have for the majority of their programming. Viewers or no, this show is as good as anything else on ALL of TV, including cable.
Can we sit in on the delegation to shop T:SCC to HBO or SciFi or FX? I here Heroes will need a replacement soon…
Schmacky,
Um, Alexander the Great?
John is not normal or he wouldn’t be the person people would die for.
JC in T2 was scrappy. A punk, yes, but he knew how to take care of himself and build his own high tech devices. He wasn’t whiney, he saw that his mother needed his help and should have been believed and so he TELLS Arnold that they are going to rescue her.
He sees that his mother is going to damage herself mentally and spiritually and kill someone in the process by taking out Miles Dyson and he immediately goes to stop her.
He doesn’t putz around, he TAKES CHARGE.
He’s also curious about Terminators, he’s willing to talk to Arnold, explain things, and how to be moral.
This is the opposite with John and Cameron. She’s confused and looking for a friend, but John has snubbed her. He’s not acting like the same character we know… again, it bugs me.
John Connor in T2 is caring and loving. Sure, he’s made life miserable for Todd and Janel, but he sees the errors of his ways about his mom, and quickly changes his tune.
Not now, not on this show. GAAA!!!
And I understand he killed a man, but this man was trying to kill him and his mom… he had no choice.
I could see him becoming messed up and confused and even sad if he caused the death of someone innocent by mistake or by a careless act, but COME ON! Sarkissian was a villain and a murderer!
John goes to Mexico on a lark and gets people killed. He almost gets his mother and Derek killed too… and even (gag) Riley!
He’s snarky to Cameron and makes her do the laundry and turns out the lights on her too?
And I’m supposed to feel sorry for him?
I’m pissed at him! John Connor! That ain’t good! If I’m upset then you can bet there are others out there just like me.
How’s this for cheesy? And I mean cheesey as in dramatic and emotional and in a good Wisconsin sharp Cheddar kind of way, not processed Velveeta.
John says he’s deeply sorry to Cameron for his behavior and appreciates her being there in his life… and gives her a hug.
That’s one thing they haven’t shown… that Cameron CAN have a friend. Someone to talk to and confide in. Someone who understands her uniqueness in life even though he knows what she’s made out of. Like John and Arnold and how they bonded quickly, but on a whole other, greater level because of Cameron’s ability to be much more.
We’ve seen Cameron snap someone’s neck… a physical act of anger, aggression, and murder. But a hug is another kind of physical closeness and contact that shows CARING, COMPASSION, and LOVE.
The exact opposite behavior.
That would make me change my tune in a second. It shows that YES the writers DO understand what Terminator was all about… HOPE winning out.
Definitely cheesy, Dan. But some viewers might actually like it.
And of course they understand. But you don’t want that all to be resolved in one episode, do you? It’s a journey.
I think very highly of Josh Friedman, and it looks like he has quite a journey mapped out for the series.
It’s a shame some people miss the point of it.
Well we know John and Cameron are friends in the future, what does it matter about portraying it in the present?
Dan, um, ancient Greece? It’s kind of nonsensical to compare the life trajectories of peoples from such extremely different cultures (with such extremely different life expectancies).
I think Gary’s got the right of it: In this show — The Sarah Connor Chronicles — John is not the leader of the Resistance; he’s on a journey. However, therein lies the difficulty: How can you structure a story in which the person who is on the so-called Hero’s Journey is not the principal protagonist? It’s not easy to do. Frankly, I think the writers did a better job in S1 than they did in S2. I sorta wonder whether having John in school was the key ingredient. It was a good, naturalistic way to remind us that he is a (20th/21st century) kid.
Whatever it is, something is “off” (at least to me), because I liked and empathised with John in S1, but this season he has worked every last nerve and then some.
I think Coach K’s onto something, too. The commonality I see in all those suggestions is this: Remember that the show — FUNDAMENTALLY — is supposed to be SCIENCE FICTION (with Action). IMO, the writers have drifted far from that in S2. It’s become much too “Drama-with-SciFi bits”. It’s also become much too ensemble-like — too many characters with independent subplots, subplots that don’t tie back at all to Sarah Connor. In S1 only Ellison was disconnected, but even then his journey dovetailed back to the main one in short order. This season everyone is all over the place.
What I absolutely do NOT want to see? The Travails of Cameron the Love-Bot or any variation on latter-season ST:TNG Data or Voyager Doctor episodes.
DEM,
I agree in many ways, but I don’t agree with you on Cameron and John.
They probably should have just called the show Terminator and focused on the three main leads and how the stories intertwine them and change them. Sarah, by herself, doesn’t seem to cut it.
Too many side characters and plots… that’s for damn sure!
I’m a big fan of this cast and the series, but just like DEM, I enjoyed the first season a little more for basically the same reasons.
That, and I loved the core cast together more from S1. They were great together.
At the same time I’m really looking forward to these next nine episodes to see where they go from here.
Everyone, have a nice Christmas.
Of course!
Happy Holidays!
Though we may disagree on certain things it should be a time of good cheer.
Weird Al Yankovic: “The Night Santa Went Crazy”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-Mce9VpmY
Have fun and lots of spiked egg nog!!
Unfortunately, there’s a big chance that the whole back nine has already been shot and filmed, so anything we say will be ignored or have little effect.
But in case it does make a difference:
The writers !MUST! heal this rift between John and Cameron. The simple fact is that Jameron is something that 90% of the audience have fallen in love with, myself included. You don’t believe me? Go on youtube and see how many Jameron videos there are in comparison to John/Riley vids.
Riley needs to leave, RIGHT NOW! She has a part to play, yes. But that part must end immediately because she is turning John into a useless child.
I really really love this show and I pray to God that we get a third season, but we’ll never get there unless the dynamics of season one are restored.
Bring back John/Cameron, get rid of John/Riley.
Dan might just be too vocal, but I agree with many of his points. Except I’m not a shipper. I want to see Cameron snap John Connor’s neck like she did with Allison. Is that wrong?
For me, it’s about believability. I could believe that kid in T2 will grow up to be a strong leader. The one in TSCC, I just see him growing up to be Nick Stahl.
John is seldom in on missions. While Sarah, Cameron, and Derek are out there fighting Skynet, John is shopping, cleaning the house, shopping more, hot tubing in Mexico, hanging out at a party, making out in a car. That’s what John Connor has been reduced to, the B or C story in almost every episode.
This show needs to get back to basics, tell stories about the compelling characters like Sarah, Cameron, Derek, Ellison, Charley, and Weaver. And get rid of annoying ones like John (yes, John), Jesse, and Riley.
Veran:
As soon as that happens you will hear this from a majority of the audience:
Hallelujah Chorus from Handel’s Messiah:
***.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw6H3crLzpg
I’m not going to dump my long-ish take on what the current state of TTSCC. But, if you’re interested, you can find it at http://cjcs.com/tib/recing-on/ttscc-recing-on/1809/ttscc-still-staying-the-course/
Some very good points there, CJ. Enjoyed reading it. You express yourself well, much better than I ever do. I’m a photographer, never could be a writer.
Thanks Gary. But don’t sell yourself short…I was a sports photographer before I became a writer.
Since we’re all revealing our backgrounds, you may wonder why I’m so hung up on music and songs.
In my past life I sang in choirs since I was a little pipsqueak. In my Senior year in High School the A CAP honor choir I was in was invited to perform at Carnegie Hall.
So, I LOOOOOOOOOVE music. Any kind, all kinds. It’s like my second soul.
That’s why I hope the TSCC music gets completely overhauled and revamped ASAP.
Speaking of that and choirs, here is another example of soaring action/sci-fi music from the excellent James Cameron epic film “The Abyss.”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=YoDDHZ_JZBc
One more example of what I’m talking about in adding subtle and not so subtle improvements to TSCC.
It’s an actual, short scene from “The Abyss.”
This sequence is a IMHO superb example of why I love James Cameron movies so much and why I passionately would rather have more spicy and tense drama on TSCC to kick things up and goose the suspense and let us REALLY feel for the characters. All the characters.
“Drowning”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ce36QFGnEg
“Drowning, Part 2″
***.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q60x_5WOqk
Powerful stuff.
Okay, some of you fans divide other fans into “shippers” and “Tin-Misses. Some of you categorize yourselves as a shipper or a Tin-Miss. For some of us who are underexposed to fandom, or slow on the uptake, what the heck are you talking about?
Dan, now that’s something I definitely have to disagree with. The music for TSCC is fantastic.
I met Bear McCreary a couple weeks ago in Burbank & had him autograph a copy of the soundtrack for me, which I’m actually listening to right now at work (working Christmas eve).
He did a wonderful job with this show. Much of the music is subtle and yet very dramatic at the same time. Which makes it great for TV/Film. His chord structures have a wonderful tension which resolves in & out. Very cool stuff.
It was awesome to meet him briefly. One of the perks of living in Los Angeles. I’ve met the whole cast for the show (except Lena) along with Josh Friedman & James Middleton.
What a terrific group of people they are. They’re super nice. When you meet them, you can’t help but become an even bigger fan.
A shipper is someone who is not opposed to a John/Cameron “relation-SHIP.” The vast majority of the show’s fans. Yup, that’s right.
Tin-Miss is the little jab Sarah lays on Cameron in the first season. It’s a play on the Tin-man from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum.
You know, the “cover name” for the Connors: The Baums.
Clear things up a bit?
Gary,
You lucky so-n-so!
I’m not saying that the music is bad, I’m saying that it just doesn’t seem to fit as well with the action/drama genre and the original movies.
It’s a very limiting style of music and it seems to stay very similar throughout. Kinda drop-in ‘n’ play.
Listen to Brad Fiedel’s score between T1 and T2. Even he modified it and made it BIGGER and BOLDER for T2.
I’m saying that a more vibrant score with more instrumentation, denseness, and variation would work better and be much more dramatic.
If you saw the clips of “The Abyss” I just posted, you’ll see that Alan Sylvestri kept things simple (piano chords mostly) during those very dramatic scenes. However, when called for there should be MUCH more intesity and OOMPH. Majestic, bombastic, etc.
Bear’s score seems, um, lifeless sometimes in comparison to the big action spectacles The Terminator hails from.
I see what you’re trying to say, yes. But the way this show is written and filmed, his score is perfect. You would not want the soundtrack from the movies for this weekly show.
You’re right that it sounds very similar throughout, he wrote themes for the various characters (particularly Sarah) and does variations on that theme in the various episodes.
Check the music again for The Demon Hand, what an awesome and haunting piece of work he did for that episode. Especially the scenes with Dr. Silberman. Really good stuff.
But lots of good music throughout the series. Josh Friedman and the cast love the music Bear has done for the show. So do I.
Gary,
You gotta say that THIS music would be more in keeping with the movies than what’s on the show presently:
***.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVOSdoBC-w
It’s not like I’m advocating the WRONG music for a scene.
Like these, for instance:
Star Wars-
***.youtube.com/watch?v=qJa4S9TTdBU
The Empire Strikes Back-
***.youtube.com/watch?v=iUnGf5e23cE
Titanic-
***.youtube.com/watch?v=QRnynSGxiug
The Matrix-
***.youtube.com/watch?v=mCJOZ8dgSLM
& Batman Begins-
***.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOpDPd15mU
Somebody’s creative, that’s for sure! LOL!!
Yes, I’ve seen them all. I know what you mean.
All I can say is, there’s a reason WHY they approach it differently in a weekly TV series. I’m just not sure I can explain it sufficiently to make it clear.
But at any rate, it’s time to head out of the office and start the Christmas holiday.
Have a good one!
Have a great holiday too!
One thing I do like about Smallville and Lost: their music scores seem more epic and in keeping with their respective shows.
It isn’t necessarily how they approach the music, that’s not what I’m getting at… it’s the life and the depth *behind* the music.
Fiedel’s score, even in T2, is in keeping with a 2 1/2 hour movie because it doesn’t lend itself well to multiple hours of viewing, and unfortunately Bear has tied himself to that style.
It’s great for the beginning of the show to say THIS IS Terminator, but it starts to get very repetative and boring for the incidental backdrop.
I’m just saying to spruce it up… punch it… whatever adjectives you can come up with to liven it up.
If it means changing to a more orchestral based soundtrack with some instances of the original Fiedel vibe combining synth and exotic instruments and funky things like trash cans then so be it.
Just bring it to life.
DEM, thanks. CJ thanks. Gary & Dan, thanks.
John is a mostly milktoast, and we want that changed. We want him to grow up and start being a man, the kind of man any of us would aspire to IF we were put in a similar situation - and had the foreknowledge to DO something about it.
Riley came in, and we went from confused to just plain “whipped.” Now he’s mostly trying to justify having some alone time with the blond hottie so he can get laid! No big mystery here: Sarah is blocking the boy’s action, as she is constantly hovering over him; but she’s been doing this HER whole adult life…
I like the Elison dude, but he is FBI, and it would’ve made it far more interesting if he joined the Conner’s team and gave them “official” intel on other strange occurances based upon their criteria settings. Would’ve made more sense than his trying to bring religion to a machine - that doesn’t think enough of him to kill him (while another assassin would nave. That should ring major alarm bells in his head to NOT dig up the downed cyborg and turn it over to someone whose intentions he doesn’t trust.
Cam is great, and so is Sarah, but we don’t get enough of them. Like the Hispanic female marine in Aliens some characters we just want to see as much of as we possibly can. We WANT Sarah to kick ass! That’s WHY we love her! She is NOT James Bond, or smooth or sublte. She HAS the courage of her convictions, and she will slam-bang whatever needs to be to get what/what/why she feels she needs to.
Cam is our SPY. She is the infiltrator-bot; but they have her do very little of this. She is the perfect straight man - and the funny line deliverer as well. Spock did this on ST. Cam and John and Cam sould be this the “big three” of this show.
The other ones can be Sulu and Scotty and Uhura, etc. but the shows DO need to tie in to this thread and keep the overall STORY secure in the viewers mind. How much of season two even gives the overall threat of JDay and the events that lead up to it? The nuclear power plant are, which was well done.
We don’t need more T’s coming back from the future: there are enough ways to hurt someone here if you know how. Any T can get on the web and kill someone via credit, changing their prison or medical records - there are thousands of ways to see someone gets done in, and few would be the wiser.
This would be goond to see Cam and Weaver do. Show us how lethal our environment is NOW, and let the big 3 come in and save someone’s butt.
This whole series is one big backstory, but they’ve made even that into a backstory within a backstory and backstories that have yet to be told. No one 6 mil or less watch it.
Not that the writing hasn’t been excellent, but is is not what T is all about - and that is what people want to see.
Imagine doing “Lord of the Rings” in this manner. The main story is about Frodo being chosen as the Ring Bearer and he has to got dispose of the ring and has champion companions to protect him along the way. Simple premise, even for a trilogy. You cannot go off for long off this main thread with splinters that go on for months as teasers!
In T:SCC we all know no matter what they do Skynet WILL launch and JDay will occur. THEY don’t know that. So the premise of their efforts to stop this - and the antagonists efforts to stop them - is an interesting one.
That should be enough for us.
There’s plenty of potential here, which is WHY we watch! Ask any person who IS a T fan and they will tell you the part that intrigues them the most is the horrific way humans had to live AFTER JDay, and what they had to do to survive in the face of overwhelming technically supperior adversity. Watch how popular T$ the movie is!
We can’t have that here, really, except in snipets. But those snipets are jewels: Derek and Jesse meeting, Derek being saved, Riley seeing how humans lived in comfort for the first time - even Cameron dancing: she had never experienced what humans did when they were not scrambling around in holes like rats!
These are things that tie their future with our present. Why hasn’t John started a MySpace.com page with hundreds of thousands of friends that are “futurists” who also believe the military idustrial complex will lead to our imminent demise? Why aren’t the Conners on someone’s terrorist watchlist?
There are lots of holes in this myth, even though we still love it, and especially this version - the first one that is an intellegent and consistently clever as this. But you can get too clever for your own good.
Your core audience is with ACTION. Clearcut good vs. evil. Clever bad guys. Desparate determination on the part of the good guys.
I hope the writers do some type of special forum where they take the best of what their fans are saying and have an interactive session with us - even if it were just a bunch of “what-if” scenarios, so that we wouldn’t actually know what the plot/scripts were going to be. We could give good market research intel what would/wun’t work, and what we would/wouldn’t like to see. That’d be cool, even I wasn’t one of the fan panel chosen to participate.
Please do what you need to do to build your numbers up, pronto. Then we’ll have plenty of time for intricate backstory snipets. Slpintered storytelling for too long a stretch has all but killed Heroes.
Also, please do not do the Cam “feelings” thing, or the “love” thing with her: I too did not like “Howard the Duck” and although many kids(?) might think the pemise is cool (and it might spike numbers, as in the drool “Twilight” movie) Cam should only use her characteristics within the scope of her programming and her purpose - anything else will get soggy, sappy, and stupid PDQ.
One valid point that keeps being raised, but only in passing, is the astonishingly inefficient way that the team operates.
Supposedly Sarah has been trained by professionals. Derek is a trained soldier. Cameron has been programmed by Skynet to infiltrate and operate inside a military unit. John grew up around soldiers.
Not one of them is thinking like a soldier, acting like a soldier, fighting like a soldier, planning like a soldier (that ambush scene at the military academy was ludicrous), or organizing anything like a soldier.
Please consider hiring someone who has actually set foot on a military base at some time in their lives. failing that, please consider speaking to someone who has read a book about the military at least once in their lives. Failing that, please consider hiring someone who has at least caught sight of a military base in the distance while they were driving past on their way to a PETA meeting.
Roger that Wastrel. This show needs an ops advisor badly. Additionally, Cameron needs to take her sweet little hyperalloy combat chassis and go snap Riley’s neck right now!! Riley is degrading unit morale and has to go.
I know it’s just a tv show but I get really annoyed when I see someone try to recon or clear an area alone like Sarah did in the last ep. A soldier would never make such a mistake.
Hiring a military advisor would be helpful, that’s true, if one hasn’t been sought before.
It would sure add a layer of believability to the John and Sarah who were supposed to be living around survivalists for years, and Cameron who would supposedly have “detailed files” on military strategy.
If Sarah and John have forgotten this stuff then perhaps Derek and Cameron should start actively training them again.
Having a sort of tie to the stories of T1 and T2 would lend credibility to what’s happening now.
Just random suggestions from the fans.
Thanks Dan,
I think I get the shippers now. However, as I recall, Sarah refers to Cameron as Tin-man for a couple of episodes, presumably because Cameron has no heart. In the Wizard of Oz, the tin-man gets a heart in the end, if fact, he had one all along and just didn’t recognize it. So if you are in the Tin-miss camp, does that mean you prefer Cameron with no heart, hope she gets one eventually, or think she has one in there somewhere already? I’m confused.
As for myself, I’m kind of willing to be surprised by wherever the creative team wishes to lead us with the Cameron John thing as long as the writing is brilliant. Some of the most poignant scenes have been where John is attracted to Cameron on an emotional level, and yet has to remind himself she is only a machine. In the first season first episode, Thomas Dekker does a tremendous acting job as he goes through the gambit of meeting a “really hot babe” at school who likes him, then sees her killed, then shows confusion and gratitude when she saves him, and finally after the excitement dies down, shows total disappointment that his “hot babe” is a computer that used human mimicry in actions, speech, and facial expressions to “fool” him into trusting her. John doesn’t like to be tricked. I therefore find it amusing how annoyed he becomes with Cameron when she explores and tries to imitate and understand human actions. “What are you doing?” he constantly asks in very accusatory tones. Apparently he believes she is trying to learn how to better “fool” and manipulate people. As to what is really going on in those microprocessors of hers, the writers haven’t given us much to go on, but that’s actually good, because I like the idea of Cameron being a “Very scary robot”. I was just getting used to the idea that the writers were making her anything but scary, and then they did the Brothers of Nablus. The last thing I was expecting was for her to instantly shoot those guys and announce that they were a security risk. Even Sarah seemed stunned and grasping for an explanation of what had just happened. Sarah chides herself for forgetting that you can’t reason with a machine and therefore says nothing to Cameron as she seeks to save the fourth accomplice. And then Cameron goes home and announces that Riley is a security risk. Well, what that heck does that mean? At times Sarah is a security risk, and so is Derrick. So at what point does Cameron simply break your neck or put a bullet between your eyes? Is anyone really safe around her?–very scary robot! And you want John to fall in love with her!!!
Hmm. I know you think Uncle Bob in T2 picked up some humanity. But, if you watch the movie again, you will see that John’s terminator was programmed to follow John’s instructions. John ordered his terminator to stop killing people and he did. John told him to quit being a dweeb and act more human, and the terminator did. The terminator told John that rescuing Sarah could be dangerous and jeopardize his primary mission of protecting John. John ordered the terminator to save his mother anyway and the terminator did. John told the terminator to play games with him and the terminator did. Name any one scene that actually shows the terminator gaining one ounce of humanity versus simply following John’s orders. Perhaps you think to point out the last scene where the terminator terminates himself. No, wrong! His primary programming is to save John’s life. When all other threats are apparently eliminated and he is the only threat apparently left, he is faced with conflicting instructions: 1) to protect John’s life, 2) to follow John’s instructions. The terminator’s programming simply picks the order with the highest priority and follows it as it was programmed to do–you can’t reason with it.
The really scary thing about Cameron is yes, she is there to protect John and help fight Skynet, but she is programmed to only follow orders from John of the future. And now her chip is damaged. We already know that rebel controlled terminators in the future from time to time start killing for no apparent reason. Does Cameron’s chip damage make her more likely to kill or less likely to kill? Some fans hypothesize that the damage will allow her to reprogram herself outside the box like Johnny 5 in short circuit and that she will become alive. I have no problem if the writers want to go this direction-it is science fiction after all, but I also have no problem if they want to be more realistic. When my computer has a chip problem or even slight fluctuations in the power supply, it mostly just acts erratic until I get it fixed. I’ve always been surprised that John was satisfied with his repair job. When my computer is on the fritz but still mostly functional, that’s not good enough for me. I will spend weeks experimenting and talking to techs until I get it working perfectly again. I would think John would be sitting down with Cameron and having her run self-diagnostics until they figure out what needs to be fixed. For heaven’s sake, if Cromartie can repair himself from the junk pile, surely Cameron can figure out whom she needs to see to get her chip fixed–Catherine Weaver maybe?
Now that would be real scary.
["Please consider hiring someone who has actually set foot on a military base at some time in their lives. failing that, please consider speaking to someone who has read a book about the military at least once in their lives. Failing that, please consider hiring someone who has at least caught sight of a military base in the distance while they were driving past on their way to a PETA meeting."]
Dude… This is action on a limited schedule and budget. Besides, none of the Terminator films were realistic, ever. Barely any hollywood movie is realistic for that matter.
The action will always be stylized.
Lee,
If the writers are truly taking Wizard of Oz to heart (ha ha), then our favorite Tin-Miss should find that she had a heart all along.
Just as James Cameron said of Arnold’s character in T2. Tin-Man got his heart… he “got it.” He gained a kind of humanity.
The light bulb went off, an epiphany. The Terminators can reach another plain, a higher, better existance. They can be not just single-minded killers. They CAN be reasoned with, they CAN value. They CAN love. As Sarah and John found out in T2.
Sarah saw the hopeful future. I just wish THIS Sarah would too.
Seeing as it’s Christmas Day (MERRY CHRISTMAS!!) I’ll even put it another way:
It’s even said that the Grinch’s tiny heart grew three sizes that day.
Looks like my pancakes are done… gotta run!!
I agree, TSCC does need a military ops/strategy advisor on set. There are just too many glaring mistakes in that area. Too many of Sarah’s tactical decisions appear unreasonable given her years of paramilitary training in Central America.
t101, I hear you about budgets, but I don’t think what Wastrel is suggesting requires big bucks. For example, putting the Connors in a less extravagant house for S2 may have both saved a handful of cash AND helped sustained the illusion that these are hard-living people. Heck, why not spend a few twenties on some survival books? Get into the *mindset*.
The Coach and CJ both talked about the importance of being true to one’s genre. In contrast, in a recent interview (or blog post?), Josh Friedman seemed to suggest that what Terminator fans are into most is the family drama. I’d say he’s got that backward: The strong characters — their humanity — was what helped make the action scifi work. The characters helped elevate Terminator and T2 beyond the standard “shoot em ‘up… with robots!” fare, but the movies were — nonetheless — ALWAYS, ALWAYS scifi actioners at base. (see also: Die Hard and Alien(s))
OK, so because there are budget constraints on the action (and this ain’t 24), then ramp up the science fiction. There is a wealth of relevant material to be mined from tech-driven everyday American life, but the writers have pretty much eschewed that angle. Beeping telephones don’t cut it. Terminators of the Fortnight grow tiresome.
CJ! I seen we’ve been haunting the same places.
I’ve got a couple of Whoosh! articles myself. Despite the peerless wisdom of your Gabrielle articles and analogy to TSCC (wrt John), I’m going to have to disagree vehemently with your Fonzie suggestion. Never a fan of such manoeuvres, but I’m especially opposed in the case of a title-character show. “Spock-level” is as far as I’m willing to go.
Moreover, to tie in with your Derek observation (which I was so gratified to read), I have to wonder whether some of the fall-off in viewership had to do with the progressive back-seating of Sarah Connor. Yup, there are still a few of us crazies out here who came to and stay with this show because it’s called Sarah Connor. Cameron is easily, EASILY my second favourite character, but I didn’t sign up for Small Wonder: The Terminator Years, and it’s not the show I want to see.
P.S. Characters are neither good nor bad, but writing makes them so. A 5-year-old could have foreseen Cameron’s popularity (esp, given Glau’s built-in fanbase). If the writers weren’t prepared to deal with that reality yet maintain their loyalty to their title character, well….
DEM:
That’s why I say (IF) there is a season 3 that they change the name to *JUST* “TERMINATOR.”
Even Josh has admitted that “Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue very well.
That way you can explore not just Sarah Connor, but Cameron Phillips, AND John Connor (if he can become likeable again and John Baum gets killed off SOON!!) in detail and at length.
Since CAMERON has become the main attraction (thanks to Summer… hats off, my dear… you are going places!) that does necessitate her taking a more ACTIVE roll, which also means becoming more assertive as John needs to be too.
Not only does that mean gaining a kind of realization of humanity, but a sense of self worth. Like I’m not going to keep risking MY life on foolhardy ventures. F that! I want to live, darn it!
Have her put on a high tech, light weight kevlar jacket and have John question why. It would be an odd thing for her to do. But she fires back that she’s tired of getting needlessly damaged. As if she’s saying… “you want me to stay pretty for you, don’t you??” and “hell, I don’t want to get damaged either!”
Also, if Future John from the old time line has her as his closest advisor and confidant… then you need to see BOTH Cameron and John discussing tactics. Arguing, perhaps… but on the same SMART page. They also go on field missions together NOW. Get their butts in the game!!
If they’re hinted at being a team and something far more (the shipper part) then show the TEAM in action! Show that they COMPLIMENT each other.
No more of this snarky BS! It’s irksome. There are enough OUTSIDE forces to deal with than being at each other’s throats as well.
You CAN have drama AND humor AND action as James Cameron has shown time after time after time.
Speaking of humor…
Gotta share my favorite Cameron based song BAR NONE! Sorry, I gotta give you the lyics to this gem. Call it my Christmas present.
Cake: “Short Skirt/Long Jacket”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=u7aDstrDMf0
I want a girl with a mind like a diamond
I want a girl who knows what’s best
I want a girl with shoes that cut
And eyes that burn like cigarettes
I want a girl with the right allocations
Who’s fast and thorough
And sharp as a tack
She’s playing with her jewelry
She’s putting up her hair
She’s touring the facility
And picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnng jacket…
I want a girl who gets up early
I want a girl who stays up late
I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity
Who uses a machette to cut through red tape
With fingernails that shine like justice
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass
She is fast and thorough
And sharp as a tack
She’s touring the facility
And picking up slack
I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnnng…. lonnng jacket
I want a girl with a smooth liquidation
I want a girl with good dividends
At Citibank we will meet “accidentally”
We’ll start to talk when she borrows my PIN
She wants a car with a cupholder arm rest
She wants a car that will get her there
She’s changing her name from Kitty to Karen
She’s trading her MG for a white Chrysler La Baron
I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnnggggggggg jacket!
A military/tactical/ops advisor wouldn’t necessarily cost a lot. Or anything. Doesn’t any of the writers have an uncle or a cousin who is in the army? Or who fought in desert storm? Or Vietnam? Or even WWII?
If nothing else, they can go online and download a copy of The Art of War by Sun Wu. It is available free. So are copies of other books of military science, as for example works by Clausewicz. At least they would have a clue.
If nothing else, a little common sense would be nice. For the love of sanity. Who walks alone into a potential enemy base? By the front door? In broad daylight?
Please…
Well, at least, Wastrel, Sarah didn’t shout out at the top of her lungs:
“Hey Skynet flunkies, it’s Sarah Connor! I’ve come to blow this MOFO’ing building down! Come out, come out wherever you are!!”
At least we have that. LOL!
Merry Christmas everyone. I’m just opening my Bear McCreary Terminator CD. Hope you all found one under the Christmas tree too. And Dan, enjoy your pancakes
Excellent work, Lee! Dan, I also (mostly) agree with your points re the team, their tactics, and the direction OF the show - although we all love the writing fo whatever we get (and can’t seem to get enough; which may be what we are really complaining about: the threat that the network may take this weekly respite away…).
It might be nice to see that Sarah has an epiphany that takes her back to her paramilitary training days. Most Central American rebels were CIA-military “advisor” trained, so she should do how to deploy tactical actions pretty well. So should Derek (by not getting his but shot off by an army of Killer machines for years) and Cameron (as one of those killer machines.
Sarah should look hard at the flaws of their actions - including her own. They have a LOT of leaks, no protcols, no heirarchy or chain of command, no rules of engagement, no exits strategies, no safe houses, no rally points, usually no intel, and do little recon.
She should take command and set Derek with the task of personally training John to BE the soldier that others WILL follow later. She should let them know that she is supposed to have cancer and will die; but while she is still around she will continue to put things in motion to save humanity later - same as she ever has.
They should take a closer look at all the assets and contact points and investigate each one carefully: how do these things fit into the future that they know is coming (since 50% of their team is a product of that future).
They should take the position that thus this future is more that likely to occur even as they work to prevent it, but their actions should also take a fallback position of ensuring that their will be something of use available to those that survive JDay IF it should occur.
As for Sarah, the writers need to put her in the driver’s seat. John in merely an office plant: a target that is the reason for her desparate actions. But no doubt she IS the central figure to ANY of the actions that happen; why we WATCH the show (to see what she does WHEN she is alive); and the defacto “boss” of the whole deal. All roads do run through Sarah in the T mythology - just like they did with Cap’n Kirk in Star Trek.
It’s time for everyone else to KNOW who the Big Kahuna is! She needs to exert her postition and control OVER Derek, Cameron, and John. She should notify them ALL that SHE is the CURRENT leader of the rebellion; and it is ONLY with her death that this change of command will take place. They all know this will occur, so they’d better make the best of it while they can, because when THAT day comes it means the crap has REALLY hit the fan!
Right now, Derek is a mere volunteer. He still hasn’t said WHY he was sent back, and either he is a refugee, merely thankful they saved his life, or has a hidden agenda or some other orders, is anybody’s guess. Didn’t they get issues contigincy orders and objectives? Or do they just get stuck in the past with no regard for their lives, as collateral damage. That seems kinda harsh, but it seems to be Jesse’s view (of Riley’s mission).
No one has really questioned Cameron’s “orders” in depth, have they? Do they know what she is supposed to be doing, and why? She certainly doesn’t seem to spend a lot of time around John, if she is protecting him. Maybe she has some data on a threatening timeline, and it ain’t here yet.
As for her heart, I have an idea on that as well. In Quantum Mechanics it has been discovered that perceivable reality can have very mysterious properties. It can be both a particle or a wave form at it most fundamental levels. We also know it appears to operate in patterns that has portions of it blip in and out of our perceptions. One thing that is also does is have unlimited values of potential - until we observe it, when it becomes a singular past of experience (the other potentialities evaporate).
I had a great deal of fun subjecting some of my relative’s children to a new form of video game: the dicovery of themselves AND their relationship to the entire physical universe. This was based upon watching on YouTube “What the Bleep do We Know: Down the Rabbit Hole.” This stopped even hard core teen and pre-teen gamers in their tracks and had a hig-energy, stimulating conversation that lasted several hours. Even the 10 year old’s “got it” which was very cool.
This led me to a revalation about Cam’s learn computer technology. Let’s say she learns on a different set of AI than we are currently familiar with. Her CPU and her sensory input can ponder and detect sets of potential values in various wave forms, and then determines which set of focus upon, which will turn the wave potential into particle reality. This is how our brains work, so it is not far fetched.
She would then be able to actually function just as a “self-aware” person would, even if she never actually became “alive.” This is a sci-fi theme that would be “cutting edge” while I do not think it’s be hard on the special effects budget of the show. It’d certainly cause people to have some real science of substance applied in an interesting manner.
I think whatever we say or comment on, we’re basically whistling “Dixie” to the wind. Most of the show has been written and filmed for this season, so any other mistakes or flaws we point out will never get fixed. It’s basically too late.
So, if they do get a chance at another season then MAYBE they’ll take some things we talk about to heart in order to boost their viewership because what they’re doing as of now is not seemingly helping things.
More HUMOR and HOPE & LESS gloom
More ACTION, SUSPENSE, and INTRIGUE
A More LIKEABLE and ACTIVELY INVOLVED John Connor
More CAMERON development and have her moved from a supporting, background/backdrop roll to a MAIN roll. Give her more to do, more lines, and more DEPTH and HUMANITY.
ONE main story per episode, fully fleshed out. NOT three mini, carved-up stories with only minimal development.
THOSE are KEY ingredients to the show’s SUCCESS.
This was the worst depiction of John Connor that I’ve ever encountered. How can you back the leader of humanity when he’s so whiny and emo?
Sorry TSCC writers, but I’m not watching this show in February. I’ve caught up with another series, on another network.
How about this for a Season 3 idea?
Have a story on how T-1000’s were made. Have a team of Future soldiers investigate an underground Skynet facility and run across the secret behind the living liquid metal organisms.
There’s this pool of protoplasmic, metallic goop in a pool in a large cavern (almost like the concentrated soup of life in the early days of Earth). It kind of acts alive. Some of the team as split off from the rest and one idiot in the team acts stupid and thinks the stuff looks pretty harmless and agitates it.
All of a sudden, the swirling, liquid goop explodes violently with angry silver tenticles and kills almost all of the soldiers by the pool. One or two barely escape and report back to the main squad who have come across the lab that helped design this new life form.
Within this story you learn that this is no longer a Skynet facility, but one run by the splinter group of T-1000’s who have broken from Skynet. This is one of their breeding grounds. This is where their “children” are created. The pool is the primative, early stage in their development. The stuff acts out of pure survival *instinct* before it can be “taught” by the sentient “parents” to be more sophisticated like Weaver, like Robert Patrick’s character, etc. (before it can become “adult-like.”
These new T-1000’s are also building and modifying OTHER Terminators like Cameron’s line to be more sophisticated and evolved. They are searching for their own path apart from Skynet. They are curious.
You find out that Skynet, in its blind hatred of humans, has created T-1000’s and other Terminators that are so sophisticated that they are new lifeforms unto themselves and CAN act independently from Skynet’s control.
Cameron and “Catherine Weaver” are part of that new breed. They are singularities (one organic metal, one cyborg, but both cut from the same cloth) that have grown BEYOND.
Going back for a second… what I meant by T-1000’s re-designing cyborg Terminators was that I’m implying that you find out that “Catherine Weaver” is Cameron’s “mother.” That Caherine Weaver IS the head of the rogue machine faction.
It’s just that Cameron is more like a wayward daughter. She’s developing even beyond Catherine Weaver’s limited understanding… she’s grown to *love* and *value* whereas Catherine’s quest and thirst for knowledge is creating something accidently terrible and hate filled, and perverse.
Catherine is using calculated logic and that drives her (still machine like and cold). Cameron is starting to use a deeper, more human understanding… she starts to “get it.” It leads to her finding her heart, and in a way her soul. She finds out WHY Skynet and JD must not happen. Why life is worth saving… she loves and cherishes somebody in particular (even if he does act like a right prat sometimes)… John Connor.
Their loving relationship and bond changes things fundamentally. Man and machine can co-exist WITHOUT blowing the crap out of each other.
BECAUSE underneath it all… we’re all looking and striving for the same things: LIFE and SURVIVAL and a sense of BEING, a place and purpose in this crazy world. We just have to figure that out.
In an insane world… John and Cameron are the sanest choice.
How about that?
Heard this tune again on the radio today… a flashback to the 90’s and it reminded me (go figure) of Terminator and John and Sarah and Cameron’s plight.
Chumbawamba: “Tubthumping”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=fm4iU0yx9GY
I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never gonna keep me down!
We’ll be singin’
When we’re winnin’!
etc. etc.
A lot of posts inevitably focus on what we feel the writers are doing wrong. I’m going to focus on some of the things they are doing right.
I love the depth and nuance inherent in each character. Every single character is desparately flawed. What the writers have done with Sarah’s character in the last couple of episodes is remarkable. When Sarah says that John doubts her for the first time, you can almost sense the reverberations within her psyche. Those 3 dots now mean everything to Sarah.
I love the John Henry development. It is a great transition for Garret Dillahunt and the Cromartie character. Like Lazarus in the New Testament, Cromartie has been exhumed and reanimated. Is he God’s Child? The fate of the world may depend on Ellison’s ultimate reponse to that question.
I love the fact that the writers infuse many episodes with meaning well beyond the script. I knew nothing about the California Drones before the last episode, and now it seems I know almost everything.
I have become an ardent Josh Friedman fan. If it doesn’t work out that TSCC gets a third season on Fox, I will definitely support other Josh Friedman projects, whatever the medium.
I may fuss and fume about what I don’t understand about TSCC, but make no mistake: this is the best show on television and I’m absolutely engaged.
DEM, I think that Spock slot would probably be ideal. I do think some shows go too far in trying to placate fan favorites and thus water down what could have been.
I really have no problem with any of Sarah, John, or Cam being the main character of the series, but the writers do need to pick one. It would give the show a point of view that is currently very lacking.
Something that Coach K said sparked an idea. I wonder if Cameron is holding back with telling John a lot of info until he reaches the maturity to handle it all. It’s fairly obvious that she wants to talk to John “a lot” like they used to (according to her), but he’s not in a place to do that yet. Once HE is, then I think Cameron would be much freer with things like Sarah’s cancer and whatnot. For now, being a hormonal teen, he (as Cameron pointed out) “can’t be trusted”.
Perhaps the Riley thing will propel the story towards a little more Johnny trust.
‘course, anything said here by any of us is just in the wild hope that there is a 3rd season and that legal will let anything filter through to the creative team.
Hypothesis on Cameron and Weaver…
Weaver has managed to come back to the past, not necessarily on a Skynet directive, although she has the basic T-type programming (has the innate ability/willingness to kill). She is part of a slinter group of Cyborg intellegence that is becoming more self-aware, and is more curious about the universe about them.
Man is their creator, and they seek to know more about all that this creator knows - as they are in fact the offspring of the second generation of creation, the machines themselves. But the motivations of the machines do not satisify them; they find a hunger, a yearning, a compelling force much like gravity that creates in them the desire to know more.
Because of their Skynet based origins, they know about JDay, the rise of the machines and their fall, and the catalyst of that fall: the Conners. So they see them as a major obstacle, but they also see that they may be able to change the future by changing the development of Skynet, so that it in fact changes its objectives towards mankind and JDay and the formation of the resistance.
They are not seeking peaceful co-existence per se, but they would like to try to speed the evolutionary process of development of machines, so they can more quickly come into cotrol: they assess that they came too late in the “food chain” before the machines make blunders that humans eventually overcome.
This is why Weaver wants John Henry to taught by Ellison, and why she has a particular interest in religion: she wants to better know of the forces of will, faith, determination, drive, survival, etc. that cause these “inferior” carbon-baed units to overcome superior numbers and technology. She wants to know more about what creates the “will to live” as well as what would create a unifying force of resistance within humans. Do cyborgs have this ability? Her own evolution is testimony to this.
Ultimately, she is seeking to have machines win, albeit in a different manner tha merely killing off the Conners: she has a larger purpose than that.
Cameron may well be part of the production line of these splinter cyborgs, who they thought could be used much like the triple 8’s, but by their very nature they tend to veer off with their own computations, and thus - like us - can write and re-write their own programming (based upon whatever objectives aline with purposes. Cameron has such a purpose, but it has not been revealed yet.
It may be that she also knows the outcome of John in T4. This may have caused some fundamental cross-purposes to protect a man that will ultimately be a failed mission. Knowing that, has she developed her own set of mission parameters for before and after this eventuality: after all, no matter what, whe is built to live much longer than John, knows Sarah is going to die as well - what purpose would she have after they are gone? She may well be preparing now for this later mission/purpose.
Jesse may have knowledge of Cameron and her ilk, and has sent a spy to pre-emptively prevent Cam from developing to a point where no human can detect them, and they also can overcome the resistance of humans. She may have knowledge/observations/intel about T’s development that we do not.
She may know that Cameron still has her basis Skynet programming intact, and even though she is programmed to protect John, does not mean that she is not capable of setting up mankind to live as slaves to the machines, even theough they are no longer being killed. After all, they are still being protected.
This may be the “making a deal with the devil” theme that both Jesse and Derek know of T’s - that Skynet sets their programming up in such a way so that even IF they are “re-programmed” their CPU’s will eventually calulate a way to fullfill the new objective AND the OLD one - which is why sometimes terminators go crazy and start killing people for no apparent reason: having them in your midst is like having a time bomb in your lap with a fuse lit - only you don’t know how long the fuse is, or when the bomb will go off.
Cam may have this feature. Weaver too. Both may have a higher purpose now that makes this mere killing objective primitive, as they have evolved themselves to endeavor toward higher puropses.
Basically, they are seeking knowledge as to the meaning of thier lives. This is unfortunately dangerous to us, and the machine take on things functions as a completely alien, and decidely hostile perspective!
I see Weaver as being somewhere between Cam and a Skynet drone such as Vick or T-Ellison. She’s clearly more adaptable in her mission than the T-1000 was, but she still seems to be less prone to personal exploration than Cam (dancing, “getting away from it all”, etc.) In this way she seems more like an advanced Cromartie: focused on the larger mission, but able to think outside the box in order to accomplish that mission.
If she is a product of Skynet, I’d see her as a natural evolution based on previous design limitations. As Sarah noted in “Heavy Metal”, they aren’t above self-improvement. If I’m Skynet, I see that a rigidly programmed T-8xx can be too easily defeated by their inability to adapt. I also see that a more capable T-Cameron model might become dangerously subversive and unpredictable. The trick is in finding the right combination of obedience and adaptability. Weaver would seem to fit that mold: understanding the need for a computer that can “cross against the light”, but not having that innate ability herself.
It could be that Skynet sometimes has exactly the same problem with programming its “special” terminators that future-John has: sometimes they go bad (e.g. Cameron).
This classic song is smokin’, man!
Jimi Hendrix: “Voodoo Child (Slight Return)”
All hail the king of guitar rockers!
***.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJhJGnpovo
It would be a tragedy not to have some authentic Hendrix on this show!
I had to get this off my chest.
The mistake with S2 John Connor is that I no longer care about him.
You writers made me seriously DISlike John. He does nothing of use either, and as Josh even said he’s an idiot and too mean and snippy. At least he kind of tried to help n S1 and had some good points when he was angry.
So, now I guess I’m happier when he isn’t around, and that’s sad for me to say.
It has NOTHING to do with Thomas Dekker… the dude was dealt a bad hand by your writing, directors… and for some strange reason, Josh.
Personally, I thought I was starting to see John break out of his shell during S1 and at the end of “Samson & Delilah” and I felt sorry for him (I even teared up on “What He Beheld” when he was at the park– a really good, emotional scene)… but then you had the “brilliant” idea of back tracking all the way to BEFORE Terminator 2 in John’s emotional development.
When he whined (actually WHINED) that his mommy didn’t save him from big, bad Sarkissian so he wouldn’t have to step up and protect Sarah and himself I wanted to punch him.
He did nothing wrong. It was Sarkissian or them.
If you really wanted him to contract PTSD why didn’t you have him act stupid and get somebody hurt or killed who didn’t deserve it, it rocks him to the core, and it makes him become introspective get his head in the game? I’d feel sorry for the guy then and his sadness for what this unasked for, unwanted destiny leads him to do.
When I start to see flashbacks of T3’s Nick Stahl and what those screenwriters did to THAT John Connor… color me *seriously* not happy.
Beats the hell out of me why you guys did what you did!
I know you can’t change the past and what is done is done, but for goodness sake… I hope you take a step back and start to realize that sometimes certain things are just not a good idea if written in a certain way.
John Connor has to be better than this.
And to cleanse my pallet after that bit of venting… I gotta throw out a positive, forward motion type of song:
The Who: “Join Together”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=SWkhp0SPG-k
What these characters need to start doing.
A handful of songs for the road…
Petula Clark: “I Know A Place” (for the spooky basement dungeon)
***.youtube.com/watch?v=YBm4utkoM6g
—-
Melanie: “Lay Down (Candles in the Rain)” (a voice for peace)
***.youtube.com/watch?v=oKSSz8ZpE30
—-
Led Zeppelin: “When The Levee Breaks”
***.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww21UfRY7DA
I don’t get this hate for JC.
He really hasn’t even been in Season 2 that much..
First of all, he DID just turn 16. Most teenagers that age have some issues. John being the future salvation of mankind does not make him immune to growing up.
Dan, you said he whined about Sarah not protecting him against Sarkisian, well, so what? The kid broke free from his bonds and SNAPPED a full grown man’s neck. I think that gives him a freebie on a little “Whining” as many put it.
He said “Screw Everyone” and made his own decision to save Cameron. Show’s he is thinking on his own and not depending on Mommy and Derek.
He risked himself to save Biddel. If he was such a wimp why would he do this and many other things (Mainly from S1, though)?
He broke out of a jail cell and helped fight Cromartie.
I just am not seeing it. I hear “Wimp” and “Whiney” all the time, but almost never hear good solid examples.
Hey, nothing screams “Terminator” like Petula Clark, right?
Dan, I’m not trying to be mean, but you’ve lost it, completely.
Please, stop with the totally obscure song references and lyrics. You’re going to chase away the writers too and then we’re going to lose their nice blog. That is — if you haven’t already. Please!
A great example is that they actually SHOW John in S1 using his talents with computers and technology. He’s good for something. He’s curious about how Terminators tick.
He creates a computer virus and uses Cameron’s “brain” to disable a network.
Though he gets caught up in a jam, in “Heavy Metal” he is at least trying to do something right and help out.
In S2 he Googles about Three-Dots (ooo that takes talent!!) and bitches, moans, acts snarky towards Cameron, has been doing TOTALLY stupid and foolhardy and selfish things (Mexico and the like).
He just hangs with Riley (blech!) and still acts like JD and finding and stopping Skynet is just a passing “thing” even when he yells at Derek that he’s always thinking about it.
His actions or in-actions are speaking louder than his words.
Basically, he’s useless this season, so far.
In Terminator 2 you already had the wisenheimer, punk kid starting to shape up and grow a pair and start to man up (he even knows how to drive a stick, if memory serves) and help out and take charge when his mom has gone off the deep end (even going against the direct advice of Arnold). Then Sarah comes back around and starts to snap out of her wackiness too and starts to see a ray of hope for the future.
Now it’s like we’re completely REHASHING that aspect of the story.
I’d say that 95% of the people still watching this show have already SEEN and MEMORIZED T1 and T2 and don’t need to cover the same ground all over again in regards to John Connor and Sarah. Been there, done that… move on!
That’s why we tend to spot all the little mistakes (and BIG ones) between those very popular James Cameron movies and this TV show.
That’s why the writers need to be more careful and also use more of the sign posts aleady layed out by James Cameron himself.
For instance, in regards to Terminators… according to James Cameron they CAN gain emotions and find their hearts, and taste humanity. Humanity does not mean becoming real boys and girls (they’re still unique), but they are close enough so that there is no real difference.
That’s another 180 that bugs me about Josh’s ideas in regards to Cameron.
Having James Cameron already set the ground rules for his AI creations, that’s why I don’t see the problem in smacking some sense into John and Cameron and having them get involved with each other sooner rather than later. Get the ol’ light bulbs going off in their heads. Get John out of his stupid funk, and let Cameron start to learn some valuable life lessons so they can see each other in a whole new and caring light.
Then the writers could focus on the real “fun”… getting Sarah and Derek (and others) to accept what has happened deeply and profoundly between the two. If these true skeptics can see that there is nothing wrong with them being together… that shows real hope for the future. Just like it says in the print ads for this very show.
Man and machine have united totally and teamed up with true friendship, honor, respect, strength, and love to make sure Skynet is either destroyed or turned away from its evil path. There is no need for Judgment Day. No need for all the destruction and death.
I’ve also always hoped that there could be a positive spin on the whole “ticking time bomb” inside Cameron. I, personally, would rather that the damage to her chip has enabled her to move past her primary programming. It’s a glitch, to be sure, but a GOOD glitch. When the “bomb” finally goes off… it actually AWAKENS Cameron and us to a new dawning of a totally sentient being. The part where she finds her heart and gains her “soul.”
Cameron is the singularity talked about by John. Skynet has allowed something to be created that has broken the mould… and what a lovely mould she came out of! LOL!
As another fellow Terminator fan has stated with her banner art for Cameron and John: “Machines can’t love… but I can.”
This leads me to the lovely song by Shawn Colvin called “I Don’t Know Why.” For Cameron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9q0qMk4kWA
Gary,
Have you actually heard the songs I’ve posted or listened closely to the lyrics?
As for Petula Clark… it’s called being sarcastically clever.
It’s like using humor to disarm the audience during a particularly suspenseful and/or tense moment.
When done right it can be quite effective.
I’m not trying to scare away anyone. That’s not my intent. I just have a unique way of expressing myself.
Dan, I know you don’t mean to chase anyone away.
The best way to ensure the continuance of this blog is stay on-topic with the posts.
I’ve really enjoyed the behind-the-scenes information we receive from them here about the show, and I’m looking forward to the relaunch next month.
Let’s all do our part to make sure it continues. Sound good?
Gary,
I guess so, but just so you know where I’m coming from since you immediately thought I had lost it by suggesting a particular Petula Clark for a creepy moment for the basement reveal.
It’s in how the music is presented. Music that has *seemingly* nothing to do with a particular scene can be utilized to add some dry wit or just ratchet up the tension even more.
Take for instance “Do You Hear What I Hear?” in the movie Gremlins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlhvZutnab8 (starting at 4:10 in this clip)
Dan -
Please stop the music and lyric references. No one is interested. You seem to want to share express that side of yourself, but this is not the appropriate forum.
I get that you love music. I do too, but I don’t beat people over the head with it, especially when they’ve asked me repeatedly to stop. At some point, you are going to have to listen, or else people are going to think you are mentally ill.
You’re a nice guy, but enough is enough.
Dan -
Bear McCreary, who makes the music selections for TSCC, has his own blog where he discusses his musical selections.
If you want to influence the music on TSCC, that is the appropriate forum. Here’s the link:
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/
Dan, I too think that forum is better for music. Frankly, I enjoy what you say about the show, but I’d much prefer trying to get my head around the various aspects of Quantum Mechanics than sifting through your database of musical references: I grew up on Funkadelic!
I do agree with you that John is not a character that has been develped so that we get behind him - even though by default we have to in this mythology bc he is the leader of the restistance that saves mankind!
John does not do much WITH Cameron - his best tool available at present. It almost seems as if he resents her pressence. In T3 he was glad to see Arnold - and didn’t know yet that this fact led to him being terminated by same. Good plot twist/writing on the writer’s part there, including that he was a wimp and it was his wife to be that was the strong one…
So we already know he is flawed, and not really the action star that his mom was. But he is all caught up by riley, and never looks at the inconsistencies in her, or many of the situations he finds himself in: going to Mexico, not interrogating Ellison, going off on his own, etc.
Of course, Sarah is doing the same things, going to the warehouse, not looking where she is driving, letting people live who can be traced back to them, etc.
Let’s just say the main characters are all a bit too pre-occupied: but this may well be the reason why we fans watch the show. I don’t know, but my head is starting to hurt even thinking about it!
As for Cam, I do not agree with the John-Cam love think. To do this is REAL cop-out, that borders on mental porn. Certainly it is every geeks masterbation fantasy: the fem-bot, love-bot blow up doll that is the hot chick geeks can never get but can make to do whatever they want.
Mayby someone will suggest that he take Cam to his Jr. High re-union so show how a juvenile deliquent CAN get a “sweeeet” babe. But he already has one in Riley, who IS hotter; but he doesn’t know what to do with her (or himself) either. Maybe someone will suggest that he whip out a big car, big cane and big hat and start pimpin’ after the humans come back into power in the future…
Who says that anything seeks to be “human?” Why is that such a standard for anyone or anything to obtain? She is more advanced in terms of physical development. She will last longer, and looks to have more capability. Yet the humans you want her to emulate barely use her, and dumb her down when they do.
We’ve had know civilation for what, less than a ten thousand years? Look where that’s gotten us! Even without a T myth we are on the verge of destroying ourself and the palnet (or both) in hundreds of ways.
My understanding ofemotion is it is a measure of how much life force is being put out, after our neural net concocts peptide protein chains of various composition that then get distributed throughout the body to to absorbed by our colonies of cells so that they will have a corisponding emotional effect that matches the original mental supposition.
Does Cam need that to function? Well, we don’t KNOW how she functions. We do know she is designed well enough to interactact around emotional humans with or without emotions herself. Spock didn’t have them, and he did fine!
To have Cam start to have “real” emotions is sappy AND incredibly arrogant! Let’s sit back and enjoy the science of it all: that she allows us to look at our lives, our world, and our connections to one another in a dew and different way: outside of the goldfish bowl we can never get out of.
I say she is best for us not accepting emotions as a viable operating system.
For instance, what if whe gets truely mad! What would she be capable of if John lost interest in her (human do that with each other, from time to time) and cheated on her. Her battery lasts a long time, and her programming is consistent, so she’d probably go on “loving” him - and might kill him because of it: that’s what she DOES, get it?
i have to say that the last episodes were really boring
in this season we have a lot of boring episodes like complications, goodbye to all that, the last one and we have the worst episode in the TSCC..alpine fields, a total crap
some things has to change for good
john and cameron relatioship (one of the 2 most important factors in the show)
john’s behavior
more from derek, he is lost in this season
the connor’s working together as a team
more action
less questions and more answers
we really need another season and that’s why we need a good and strong back 9
i still have faith in this show and i want more seasons so please make this show better!
Scifi.com’s report about “On the Bubble” SciFi shows points this out:
“Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Fox, season two. Episodes this season: 22. When Sarah Connor’s first season premiered early this year, Fox executives were doing the happy ratings dance. It looked like it could be the next House. Unfortunately, House isn’t even House these days, and no series has fallen farther. Sarah Connor hasn’t been able to crack 6 million for most of the season. But there is hope. The series is moving to Fridays, paired with Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse.
Odds of getting a second season: 1 in 20
What do the producers need to do to improve the odds? The move to Fridays will make or break Sarah Connor, and partnering with Whedon’s latest brainchild can only help. But there’s one big problem with the series: It’s got terrific action, a powerful mythology, hot actors and the saddest characters on television. But does it have to be so depressing? Lighten up already!”
Even they point out what many of us have…
TSCC needs to be less gloomy and the characters need more spark, and there needs to be more light and humorous more often.
Shows that have ONE tone, especially a dark tone to them, tend to get depressing and monotonous fast.
With this horrible economy (it could last a few years from the latest figures on mortgages) we don’t need more reasons to be depressed.
Pump things up!
A belated Happy Birthday to Thomas Dekker last Sunday!
And will there be any teasers or anything in this blog anytime soon while we wait for February?
If you read this entry, you’d notice that they said the blog will be back around January 9th
Summer Glau FTW in February! =)
I agree with fabrice, she hit it on the head:
some things has to change for good
john and cameron relatioship (one of the 2 most important factors in the show)
john’s behavior
more from derek, he is lost in this season
the connor’s working together as a team
more action
less questions and more answers
—-
also I think you need to lighten up a little at times and have some fun moments to offset the gloom and doom aspects.
why do u think 17 million watch something stupid as dancing with the stars ?? this show killed tscc and it is very upbeat simple show.
having john acting the way he has and the team all broke up and seemingly not liking each other is depressing on top of the ordinary gloom.
I would like to see cameron acting human occasionally in a funny way, and she is capable of this as a infiltrator !
and john and cameron did have good chemistry together, and it doesnt have to be a romance, just a tight relationship.
attracting new viewers is good, but if u lose the ones u have now, in getting new ones then ratings dont improve and they could go down.
I think due to the way u started out this season with john and cam not being the same as S-1 u have already lost a few, if u get the show back on track they may come back.
I hope the show does well on fridays, as I would like a season 3.
many of the posts above reflect accuratly what u have done wrong with the show, so u should know what to do to correct the show.
also I think the weaver /turk/john henry storyline has been the most entertaining, just we didnt get much of it.
Stop trying to be so stylish and just stick to the basics of story telling.
The acting on the show is great and u have a great cast, now u just need ” great” writing and direction.
Again, some points from above:
The whole idea of “tearing the Connors apart” fell flat on its face. There is enough tension SURROUNDING the Connors and Cameron that you don’t need to add to their misery.
I think that’s where SciFi is coming from when they state that you have some of the saddest bunch of characters on TV right now. Sarah, John, Cameron, Riley, Derek, Ellison, Charley, etc. etc.
That dynamic MUST change. You need to flip things 180 again and get back to some more spritely, exciting, and fun development and story telling.
That doesn’t mean “dumb it down” it just means stopping all the gloomy gus aspects all the time: the in-fighting, the needless squabbling, and the lack of possitive communication and teamwork to get the job done.
Where’s their “fight”? Cameron asked do they want to stop running and start FIGHTING. Well… what happened?
Also, I cannot say this enough:
Cameron and John. Their individual as well as emotional strengthing and evolution together is the GLUE to the show. And yes, I don’t care that she’s a cyborg. Their love (as friends and lovers) can be the catalyst for a whole new way of looking at man and machine relations. THIS IS HOPE.
If you can get back to the concept in Season 1 that Cameron can become so close in her humanity and understanding to an actual human that she becomes like us then then mystery and intrigue you started with “The Demon Hand” can come back.
“Alison from Palmdale,” as much as it was cleverly written and superbly acted took much of that mystery away from Cameron. It didn’t add to it… it lessened it.
By hinting that her emotional responses come from mimicry and intel you took away her uniqueness and her specialness as an individual. Her dancing in TDH seemed magical and wonderous… now that has been ripped to shreds.
The same thing happened in “Self Made Man.” Things were looking up for Cameron in her understanding of what it means to be a friend… and then you tear her down at the end of the show. I was upset… people I was watching with were upset. Some viewers on the boards felt sick to their stomachs that you would make her so cold and calculating.
I’d really like to know what your game plan is because from an outside perspective it seems like even you writers don’t seem to know.
Zack mentioned that you like ambiguity, and that’s how you roll. However, some things can become muddled instead. If you do that to one of the most popular characters you can cause viewer frustration and backlash.
With the ratings that you have… you cannot afford the backlash.
You still need some sense of who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. This is James Cameron’s Terminator saga after all and not necessarily William Shakespeare or a Vladimir Nabokov drama. It still needs a taste of the action/drama/dark and light humor genre it sprang from.
Right now we really don’t know whom to root for.
As for the humor. Go back to the top of this thread and you’ll see a few examples from James Cameron’s own scripts I posted. He likes to put a few zingers in once in awhile. It makes you chuckle (just like the “Bitch Whore” and “Eye Liner” and “They won’t wait for her” scenes in Season 1).
Why do we keep posting? Why do we keep after you?
WE WANT THIS SHOW TO SUCCEED AND GET RENEWED AND GAIN AUDIENCE MEMBERS!!
Season 3 and beyond… LEANER, SHARPER, MORE FUN, MORE FOCUSED, MORE EXCITING, MORE CAMERON, and MORE POSITIVE PROGRESS.
Dan, yes on more action, uptempo, clear bad guys et al.
If they are trying to not have all their resources in one place it isn’t working. I’d like them get cohesive, be a unified force. Not that this will work either - John is on his own and doing stupid (thoughtless) stuff (again) by T3.
No on Cam being “human” or being able to “love.” John is an asignment. Nothing more. Her ability to emulate humans makses her a better infiltrator. Pure and simple. Her (its) creators didn’t make her to be “Data” on ST - they made her to be a better KILLER of people…so being cold and heartless has nothing to do with it.
We have a person that is “the most powerful man on earth” and he has ordered the deaths of nearly 600,000 Iraqi people under the guise of “freeing” them for “democracy, all under the pretense of a lie: WMD’s. How cold, hard, and inhuman is THAT?
Cam is good as a impersonator human. but she is not nearly as good as some inhuman humans. That’s the cold, hard true of it. Do the body count and let history decide the results…
I agree with the fact that humans can be ruthless and evil under the guise of “goodness” like Bush and Cheney and other world leader/despots…
However, the point I’m making and other “shippers” are making is that the Cameron gaining humanity idea still means she’s not human.
She still sees things differently or “cracked” sometimes and she won’t be oompletely flesh and blood, but that doesn’t mean she can’t learn to care for herself and others, be curious and fascinated, to value, to love, and want things for herself like friendship, companionship and the desire to not want to walk through the world forelorn, lonely, or thought of as less than or unworthy of life. That’s humanity, the spark, the “getting it.”
It would be a great mirror of John’s own life. He may have to learn to be tough and ruthless sometimes to succeed, but he has to learn not to lose sight of what it means to be human or have humanity too.
Even though it’s tough at the top he still needs to have friendship and love, and companionship.
You can’t do things alone. Even Cameron can’t do things alone.
It takes a team (big and small), it takes someone around you who cares deeply for your well being. Someone to talk to, to share things with, to give of yourself… and to have physical contact with. Not just touching and hugging, but the more intimate aspect of a healthy and romantic lifestyle.
Everyone needs this… no matter who they are.
Another point: when you learn to love *yourself* you can also learn to love others.
Arnold was a T-8xx model and learned most of the fundamentals. Cameron is “different” and “special” and cannot go beyond his character to far beyond?
That makes no sense at all.
Dan,
having a love relationship with a machine is sexually perverse.
For John to do that, as the leader of the resistance that saves mankind from the oppression of machines, is sick AND twisted. He’d be a whack job to come to that sort of sentiment.
Maybe that is his reasoning for diplaying resentment - to let her know not to try to have her attempt to get next to him is such a manner. He may suspect she would play him in such a way…certainly with her power source and programming, she could sustain the ruse for a very long time, and who would ever know the dif?
Can’t chance it…
I’d have the same reaction if some folks from the Castro district in SF started posting advocating that John and Derek involve themselves in a gay relationship - ala” 300.
Plain, flat, simply, NO.
“Coach K,”
I would liken Cameron and John to the early battles of mixed relationships and marrages in the 50’s and 60’s and what awful things they had to go through before people started to become enlightened.
This is a work of fiction. As Sarah says (I’m paraphrasing): “What if machines went beyond mimicing what it meant to be human, but UNDERSTOOD it too. Could appreciate the nuances of “human-ness” and what went with it, so that there fundamentally was no difference. They wouldn’t have to destroy us… they would be US.”
Show John and Cameron becoming more than just friends and then have them have to deal with the fallout of the loved ones around them having such strong prejudices and jaundiced viewpoints as Coach here. Just as Spencer Tracy’s character in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?” had to learn to accept and then love Sidney Poitier’s character and embrace his daughter’s decision to marry him, even though she was white and he was black.
That would really open this show up. That would also mean that the John and Cameron thing would have to come sooner in the story so you could explore their relationship and partnership fully.
I’d look at it as a deep kinship and friendship in the Future, becoming far, far deeper in the Present. The friendship has turned to love…
Irrespective that she is a cyborg and he his a human.
Love is blind and transcends body makeup and goes beyond space and time.
Cameron and John become like Kyle and Sarah, only with far more positive and hopeful outcome. Only this time Cameron has come across time to be with John.
She truly loves him, he truly loves her… they just don’t realize it quite yet. Their eyes and hearts have to be opened.
Aside from your music references, I can’t dis-agree with you more. Yours is a human-centric viewpoint, that all things can and should revolve around anythings need to BE us - in order for US to determine our own sense of superiority in the universe!
All the shippers that want John and Cam to get together - get OFF it. Go get your OWN hot chick! Sure, who wouldn’t want to be the heroic figure that “saves humanity?” Even if it comes with heavy responsibility, hard decisions to make, and lots of baggage: to be revered and admired by all obviously has its perks and upside…
We as viewers always have that in the back of our minds. John did bond with the T in T2 - and it followed his orders even when it went beyond saftey protocols. But I don’t know if it was attempting to be his friend, companion, or father-figure, as Sarah surmised.
Again, no.
The viewpoint of love between Cam and John is pure sexual fantasy, on the part of the viewers of this age. I view it as porn. No way to justify it, and no way to condone it either.
Doing this to this story would be arrogance beyond belief. We see this in ALOT of scifi stories. It the James Kirk syndrome: see an alien - if you can’t kill it, boink it! Sad…
Just because you encounter something new doesn’t mean you have to have a physical relationship with it.
John has already had intimate physical contact with Cameron: he’s been inside her head! Would YOU then want to sleep with your brain surgeon if he cut you open?
Her looks are a facade - just as Weaver’s are (who can change her form from woman to man. Cameron is pistons and hydrolics. I like my Corvette, and it looks good, but that doesn’t mean I want to lick it, no matter how well it performs.
How many times is the tired plot line for “sexual tension” and “forbidden love” be done. Not in THIS mythology, I hope.
If so, I’m out. If you want a popular perverse sexual fantasy, join the teens watching “Twilight.” Or maybe the concept of contracting an STD from the undead gets past you, as well…
Truth is, my friend. Everything NOT the truth is a LIE. Right is right, and anything else is just, well, WRONG.
or in this case, porn - which although few dudes will admit they don’t like to watch, makes it no less degrading in the context of having a lasting, meaningful relationship with your life mate…but then I’d be willing to bet most shippers haven’t arrived at that point of maturity in their lives (yet).
I think John intrinsically has.
Woahh, guys… stop it. This is not the right place for that kind of a discussion.
Anyway…
Been thinking about this, and I am starting to suspect that the producers and writers of TSCC want to veer away from the original T1 and T2 movies in order to put their own unique stamp on this series. Maybe they don’t just want to imitate or continue what was done before, they want to make it something that is particularly their own? Perhaps?
Unfortunately, I for one don’t want anything different. I liked the original mythos just fine. That’s what I want to see in the series.
I particular find distasteful this apparent obsession with exploring the psyche of the various characters. I *Don’t*Care* about their inner turmoil, their deep emotional pain, or their squalling inner child. I am utterly indifferent to their angst.
I want guns and explosions. I want blood and guts. I want tension, and drama, and danger, and excitement. I want clever planning, and sudden attacks. I want rapid response and quick thinking. I want tactical adaptability. I want some sense of strategy. I want a modicum of common sense. I want characters who realize that they are fighting a remorseless enemy who plays for keeps and who spend their time dealing with real world issues, not sitting around whining about who unfair and cruel the world is.
I DON’T CARE of they are unhappy. OF COURSE they are unhappy. Ruthless metal monsters are trying to kill them and take over the planet so that they can exterminate humanity. Would you expect them to be dancing in the streets with joy?
But they should be concentrating on the important stuff. Like organizing a resistance movement NOW. Like getting the jump on Skynet NOW. Like collecting and stockpiling weapons and supplies NOW. Like recruiting competent people and setting up a chain of command NOW. Like establishing safe houses and blast proof shelters NOW. Like making contact with existing survivalist groups and weeding out the whackos, trying to find a few sane members that can be trusted to hear the truth and believe it. Then use those people as the seeds for a growing movement of survivors who will spread out and start digging in to be ready when the firestorm comes.
They should be doing EVERYTHING BUT what they are doing now… which is sitting around with their collective thumbs up their self-absorbed arses.
Wow, Chris… tell us how you REALLY feel! LOL!
Take it another way… would you “boink” a human if their skin was off?
The skin of a human is a facade too… underneath is muscle and bone and blood and connective tissue and guts and…
No… you’d throw up last night’s dinner and probably most of last Thursday’s too.
Your argument holds no water.
I’m not talking porn, the other shippers aren’t talking porn… we’re talking
DEEP and LASTING LOVE and all that it entails.
Kirk “boinking” anything that wore a skirt were meaningless flings. There was no love, just sex.
Real love can be both. The emotional and satisfying sex (on a deeper level) comes after the love and friendship and it means much, much more with those components included. It’s just one healthy aspect of love, but it is not the end all, be all of love.
Dan if mankind can’t get romance/love/”feelings” right on daytime soap operas and primetime dramas, what makes you think THIS is such a lofty aspiration to take?
Take a survey of the state of your shippers personal relationships, and get to the root cause of their motivations!
John has enough on his plate - being the first man/machine love-affair seems soooo far down the list of pioneering efforts as to be unfathomable in its significance.
Wishful thinking is what it is, and takes this subject completely out of science fiction and into utter FANTASY.
We’ve got enough going on with the T mythology, do we not?
Next topic, please. (Or do maybe Fox should let the shippers download free porn to satiate thier lustful appetites…)
And to Wastrel’s post.
I’d like a happy medium. Action does NOT necessarily mean senseless slaughter and blood dripping off my HDTV in an orgy of vivid, red violence.
Cool hand to hand combat… martial arts… nonlethal fighting is cool. It could show the Connors and Cameron can get things done without a lot of bloodshed. You know… the valuing life part?
Blowing stuff up, car chases, stuntwork, gun play, etc. Space ships, hunter killers, tanks, etc. etc. are all fair game.
Action also means edge of your seat suspense and thrills and chills.
Look at the classic “The Hunt For Red October.” It’s one of my all time favorite action/thrillers and it’s rated PG… that’s right… PG!! Very little swearing, very little on screen bloodshed.
Yet it’s smart and thoughtful, taught, cat-n-mouse, edge of your seat suspenseful, thrilling… and action packed.
Again, action doesn’t just mean blood and a high body count.
I don’t want 24. In fact, I hate 24 for its depiction of torture as a means to an end. It never works and in fact has led to a lot of abuse at Gitmo, Abu Garab, etc.
That’s what I call vile action.
We need hope and love and light and laughter every so often too.
Why didn’t Derek, Cam, Sarah and John use the dead carcass of the T’s they have overcome to learn how THEIR anatomy works, and the “weakpoints” (if they have any) which will help to dissable them in battle?
Coach… now *that* is a good point.
Learn the endo structure and then destroy it if there is time… and it seemed like they have had some time every so often to do so.
The tactical strategizing that Wastrel brought up.
And here is one of the original trailers to “The Hunt For Red October” if anyone (including any of the writers) have yet to see the BEST Tom Clancy/Jack Ryan Series adaptation of them all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DvmkADWyes
Rent it tonight (preferably on Blu-ray), grab some sodas and popcorn, dim the lights, and see what I mean when I say a PG rating does NOT mean a wimpy actioneer.
From the director of Predator, Die Hard 1 & 3, and other blockbusters, John McTiernan.
Man, this waiting for the T:SCC to come back on air is TORTURE!!! For Christmas I received the soundtrack to the show and I was pumped to get it. My mondays/coming up Fridays are incredibly boring without my Terminator!!!! At least we have January 9th to look forward to in the meantime to tap into our T:SCC libido…lol. I love this show and I pray deeply that it will not go anywhere…HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!
Happy New Year to you, Brenda and a Happy 2009 to all!!
I think season 2 has been EXCELLENT for the most part. But there are a few things I would like to see changed:
Sarah is annoying and angry all the time and I don’t care about her at all.
John is a jerk and is angry all the time and I don’t care about him at all.
Aren’t we supposed to care about Sarah and John? Seems like a good idea to me. But I’m not a writer, so what do I know.
And much more Cameron please. The more Cameron the better.
Despite these complaints I do feel this is the best show on television at the moment.
Happy new year to all. and cant wait for new episodes. But what happened to the blog being taken down and redesigned?
I know we have discussed the state of America and the economy as factors in the type of story telling on this program in particular.
Now I want to give you all some indepth analysis as to economic crisis from the world’s best source for news and civil discource:
The Onion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnX-D4kkPOQ&feature=PlayList&p=FD1BFDFC7134BC71&index=0
Hmmm… food for thought. Take that CNN!
Re: WASTREL
I think there ought to be a happy medium. I think the producers ought to be free to put their own stamp on things. I don’t mind that TSCC isn’t ‘24′ or some other non-stop action show, but I DO mind that it’s neither action/espionage nor sci-fi enough (esp. the latter). There is so much about Skynet as a premise that is relevant to our ultra-tech society, yet I see very little of it reflected in the show. [I watched an ep of Criminal Minds the other day (hey, I was bored) and was dismayed to think that THAT show seems more sci-fi than TSCC.]
COACH K: I’m with you on non-shipping, and I think the producers are too. Summer Glau has also been very clear on this point. Every time Cameron does something ‘loving’ or ’sweet’ or ‘beautiful’, it’s paired with her being unfeeling, remorseless, and amoral. Moreover, this show is about stopping Skynet; it’s not about how cyborgs learn to dream of fluffy sheep. I suspect — no, I fervently hope — that that’s what the Ellison/John Henry arc is heading toward.
Happy New Year, all.
correction: “neither action/espionage nor sci-fi enough” should have been “neither espionage & survivalist nor…”
DEM:
CLEARLY you have yet to read Phillip K. Dick’s immortal writings on the subject of AI.
Anyone should know that androids or yes, even female cyborgs, dream of ELECTRIC sheep. There is nothing “fluffy” about their dreams.
Jeez man, they think in terms of killing and booby traps and snares, and tactical combat training… all that joyous stuff.
They probably would dream of scenarios like this:
“The Beijing Olympics: Are They a Trap?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqNaAU2vXlI&feature=PlayList&p=FD1BFDFC7134BC71&index=1
Oh, and one last item:
Please Josh and writers all, don’t let this be the fate of Summer Glau. The world would indeed be set into free fall crisis mode.
“Sources Warn Miley Cyrus Will Be Depleted by 2013″
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOgj2etJs3Y&NR=1
If it’s from “The Onion” you know that it’s deadly serious.
Have a wonderful and successful 2009 filled with joy and laughter. It is the best medicine.
Tell me guys, is this ingenious and insidious lab experiment REALLY from Disney or is it Skynet’s latest attempt at world entertainment domination in the present…?
You make the call.
“Disney Geneticists Debut New Child Stars”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZgXg_7kVI8
They’re almost 99% human-like! Like Cameron! Poor Zac Efron, however… a bad batch.
“Disney claims its latest batch of child stars is so lifelike, youll barely be able to tell they have no souls.”
TSCC is the best show ever but there are some things the writers should look over. I am probably one of the few girls that really notice the show and i realize that there are a lot of secrets between the characters that need to be solved quickly or most people would lose interest. Any way i love the show and since the new episode is premiering on my birthday i really cant wait to see it
, hopefully its not crap like the last one!!!!!
P.S John is acting stupid !!!!!!!!!!!!!
and Sarah is losing her mind
I know some of you may be thinking… wtf is he talking about? The Onion? Phillip K. Dick? etc. etc.
These are examples of a little something I like to call…
SATIRE or PARODY, if you like.
Sometimes a serious point you’re trying to make or a certain viewpoint you’re trying to get across can work better with these age old staples of dialog and conversation.
What did Jonathan Swift ask for poor Irish people to do in his classic “A Modest Proposal?” Why sell their children as food for the dinner table. They were of no use anyway and just taking up space.
The use of more satire and humor within the context of TSCC might alleviate some of the more depressing aspects of the show, yet allow you to sneek in a little extra commentary or jibe here and there that elevates the show’s discussions. Even do some semi-serious news reports, interviews, or TV programming the characters are watching (like you did with George Lazlo, but more often and even a bit more chuckle enducing).
It’s like Cameron (and the audience) is getting a bit of a “cracked” and satrical view of the world… and it adds a bit of social commentary that she needs to have explained to her. Humans are complicated… but the joke is on US too and not just Cameron.
This is one reason I like “Boston Legal” so much, though I’m not advocating being as unsubtle as they are sometimes (TSCC isn’t an all out comedy after all).
Take for instance this sketch from “The Onion: ONN TV Channel” again:
“Gap Unveils New ‘For Kids By Kids’ Clothing Line”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXb3dzNLebk
The extremely serious subject of child labor is given a Jonathan Swift twist.
I think what people enjoy about John and Cameron’s relationship is the tension between the characters right now. I personally wouldn’t like to see John and Cameron end up together, but the tension is interesting to watch.
Dan,
http://www.blogger.com
Warner Bros. have millions riding on the names Terminator and John Connor. They’ve spent millions getting Christian Bale, whom they have already signed for 2 sequels, and millions more in shooting and later for promoting Terminator Salvation.
Does anybody think WB will allow the name John Connor to be associated with robot-love, or as someone at IMDB coined “Robosexual”?
I doubt it.
I’m a John & Cameron fan, but I’d really hate it if they crossed the line. I’ve mentioned many times in my various blogs that while I do think that future-John and Cameron were intimate, I do not think that they were intimate in the carnal sense.
Cameron lets it be known whenever applicable that she and future-John “talked a lot”. It sounds less to me like boy/girl-friend than it does best friends, cousins, siblings, whatever. However and for whatever reason, they had a meeting of the minds.
While her quest to have now-John start talking to her might be part of some nefarious agenda, I think it more than likely that, in her own cyborgy way, she misses that intimacy with John (any John). She wants it back. So, in addition to any protect-directive she has, she also sees Riley as an impediment to her getting closer to John. As a result: the scary-robot version of jealousy.
Cameron wants Riley gone and wants John’s attention back on her. Maybe it’s not a human version of the emotion, but for an amalgam of bits and bolts, it’ll do. After all, she’s only human
But like I said, I have a lot of speculations covered in the blogs on my site. Feel free to click on over and prowl around like a terminator in a library in the middle of the night.
Dan, stop spamming the forum. It’s really annoying.
personally, as long as Summer is on the show, i will watch it religiously.
i dont care what they write. i dont care whether or not they satisfy any of you wanna-be writers.
Summer Summer Summer.
give me more Summer all the time.
Summer eating a chip for the 1st time.
Summer driving the truck.
Summer in the jean skirt walking down the hall to persuade John to leave Riley alone.
Summer walking to kick the “Self made man’s” butt.
Summer shadowing John trying to protect him form himself.
Summer in the pool hall kicking butt in pool.
Summer screaming to John that she loved him and that he loved her.
Summer leaping off of the huge ocean liner.
Summer when Summer was blown up. i would have stopped wathcing it had she not some back.
hate all you want. but this show is about Summer.
dashibbit…
I don’t know what show you’re watching, but clearly this show is about Fall.
or… or… maybe late Spring.
Er…
CJ, I think there should be a welcoming of open arms to our fellow Robosexuals.
They’re only human, or human-like.
What would JC do?
“hate all you want.”
Simplistic much?
Love the show, hate the show, wish it was better, wish it was worse…
Whatever side you come down on this fan-made photo-shop of our favorite cast of characters is pretty darn funny!
http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/u1qwWUNcjOSMtnMloKUDhA425665
Can you say: “Mysteriously spooky?” LOL!
http://www.2guystalkingvault.com/downloads/shows/2guystalking/2gt-scc-episode-22-earthlings.mp3
“2 Guys Talking” have some good points to listen to on their “Earthings” review.
One thing I got out of that podcast…
What is Riley?
A) A soldier
B) A civilian
C) A hobo
What they, in their two guys talking over probably beers way of discussing things, brought up was what I (and others) have brought up before:
There isn’t enough DETAIL to the episodes. You have too many story lines going at once an none of them are fleshed out.
If you’re going to go into Riley’s background… GO INTO RILEY’S BACKGROUND with a full episode. Again, you don’t have to reveal it all in one shot, but you put some meat into the story. Don’t just tap on the surface. I want to know MORE.
Like Ellison and his background and his reasonings as to why his religious beliefs are shakey. It was just thrown in there randomly in my opinion. It had no feeling or drama. That could have been addressed with an entire episode devoted to Ellison and his past, so you really get into his character.
That’s one thing that drives me absolutely CRAZY about the writing for this show in particular.
I don’t get all the remarks about shippers having to get their porn somewhere else… I am just hoping for a friendly relation between cameron and John! Don’t give a damn about a sexual relationship (but even that could turn out okay when you have some great writers creating it I think). Uncle Bob and John was what made T2 absolutely great for me. The utter lack of interest of the Connor characters for Cameron just irritates me every episode.
And the show may be called the Sarah Connor chronicles, the first word in the title is still Terminator. Without those I wouldn’t care about the Connors at all.
So here’s hoping on some stuff regarding my favorite cyborgs in the next nine!
Scy800,
I agree… they treated Uncle Bob with respect and Cameron like crap.
I want the original dynamic back and growing. I would much rather see John and Cameron getting to understand each other in a friendly and loving manner. GOOD GOD it would be nice to have some positive stuff for a change!
For one thing… WHY was Cameron acting like a completely normal human and calling herself Allison and had forgotten she was a Terminator? John was so unbelievably off character and incurious for not confronting that surprise.
Continuity is the key. I’m not seeing it right now.
nicely done Dan.
you see, Dan understands my half “tongue in cheek, half wishfulness” for a Summer Glau network.
DEM, dont drink the haterade.
haha
sorry if i struck a nerve with my “wannabe writer” comment.
I’ve made less “simplistic” postings regarding the show. feel free to read/comment on those as well.
A blog that gives us direct access to the TSCC writers and producers should be treated with the utmost respect. It should be a place where they can get earnest feedback and commentary from their most ardent fans.
If we abuse this blog as a personal soapbox, or fill it with every whim that comes to mind, then it will be of less valuable tool for the TSCC team.
I hope that we all would appreciate what a priviledge this blog is, and would treat it as such.
Tell me Logan, how should we talk or express ourselves?
I’m poking, prodding, using humor, using VERY direct opinions, using music, using examples from James Cameron himself, etc.
I’m desperate, man! This show is on the bubble once again and it has so much POTENTIAL that is only shown in bits ‘n’ pieces.
I want this show to continue… I’m trying to provoke a discussion any way I can.
Don’t let this be another “let’s just pussy foot around our feelings” blog where we brown nose and the writers get NOTHING but simpering fan love.
And just to show that I can have a softer and yet still playful side…
Here’s Al Stewart’s “The Year of the Cat” for Cameron and John. Love that sax solo. Good lyrics too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0gXN3eTnQU
Truly… peace.
Feedback is good. But we’ve got people here posting the same things over and over and over and over and over and over again. I’m sure they’ve got the picture now.
Toss in pages and pages and pages of unrelated song lyrics and youtube videos, and it’s just going to force them to remove the comment feature. You don’t want that now, do you?
Let’s all use a little common sense.
Also, this is not Terminator 2.5, even though that’s what some people were obviously expecting.
Gary,
Maybe that’s EXACTLY what this show needs to be to get the audience to survive: Terminator 2.5.
As of right now it ain’t what you’d expect from TERMINATOR and that could be TSCC’s biggest problem right there.
And one more point… they really need to get back to character development as in CARING for the characters.
Currently, it’s like STUFF HAPPENS to the characters, but the characters themselves seem to stay fairly static or move backwards.
Make me CARE for the characters like I was starting to Season 1 and during parts of Samson and Delilah.
Then they go off half cocked on Terminators with tommy guns, crossdressing blogging scientists, three dots, etc. etc.
That’s Charlie Kaufman, which I love when he’s doing the screenplays, territory…
Not TERMINATOR.
Maybe the writers/producers/directors should collaborate with the T4 thru T6 writers/producers/directors, so the audience gets a cohesive universe.
I DID think this whow was promoted/presented as T 2.5!
Or at least they should give us a CLEAR indication that THIS is a completely different timeline than the ones we are familiar with IN the movies AND that we will see in the movies to come…
THere is a tear in the fabric of T-space, and although we know the rips are BIG, these writers - as good a job they have done in producing an engaging story (although the T myth was engaging to start) - have done poorly in two areas:
1. Showing us enough of this new overall thread
2. Showing us enough of any ONE part of the overall thread at any one time.
I do believe this forum should be respected as it is a unique access to people who are creating this entertainment form - and trying to keep the project funded! We, as fans need to keep the “bubblegum” posts to a minimum; there are smart people watching this show, and I believe their insight will be helpful: certainly there have been some very clever ideas present here.
I believe clever writers will appreciate that, and draw from it whatever they can use.
I think I am clever, and I certainly appreciate that the writers of this show have presented new, clever ideas about this mythology that I’d never dreamed of. BSG does the same thing, which is why these are my two favorite shows.
I voted T:SCC as the best however - just to keep it on the air. It has yet to live up to its FULL potential, but I think we all agree that it the AMOUNT of potential we all see - yet unrealized - that has us chomping at the bit!
I can guarantee you the producers, writers and actors did NOT want this series to be Terminator 2.5, imagine how bored they would all be.
A lot can happen in the next nine episodes to tie in previous events and plot lines, and even drop some more big surprises about the characters and their intentions.
But if people are looking for Terminator 2.5 here, they’re definitely in the wrong place.
A LOT better happen because all they have each episode are more questions and almost ZERO answers.
Then they ADD to the questions in the Back 9 and get cancelled. Just what we all need.
And from some of the flubs with John and Sarah from the two movies moving over to the TV show, I think at least some of the writers may have been bored with Terminator already.
If we’re in the wrong place for THE TERMINATOR we know and love to show up, then maybe this show SHOULD get cancelled. Ever think of that one?
And don’t just look at praise, writers… most of it is sarcastic anyway according to one new study.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD7zSLaSXRc&NR=1
So, what did we learn from that?
If you read a praise like “Smooth move, Einstein” or hear very slow clapping or “ooo” followed by the praise…
It is sarcastic.
Sorry, I gotta rib you guys.
I’m actually seeing it more from the producers and writers’ side, and I’m glad it’s not Terminator 2.5
I like what they’ve done, even though I think the changes from season one were a little too much at once. I like change though.
You’ll get the answers. Gosh, did you forget this already?
“While the episode may have left you in a strange and surprising place (didn’t we warn you!?), there’s nothing to fear — we’ll be back. Friday, February 13th, in fact. And all…will…be…revealed.”
But be warned Dan, you’re not going to get ALL the answers in one episode.
And yes you’ve made your point. Over and over and over and over again.
My understanding was that this show was set after the events of T2 and before the events of T3. Isn’t that T 2.5?
However, this show apparently has nothing to do with what happens in T3, or with T4/etc. - except that we know the names of some of the main characters.
That being the case, then it should be stated and promoted that this show plots are the product of the big three’s wormhole travel through time, or are an alternate/different timeline that we all KNOW. That’s all.
Still lots of good stuff here.
But not using their personal T-protector as prescribed and making John a whiney emo wimp dipspit (even though we are all pulling for him) and making Sarah fallable not through the forces outside of her own control but by her own well trained oversight and not using a trained commando to watch their six and BE the point man (or let Cam handle those duties and not wearing flak jackets and not recruiting a TON of mercenaries and not raising money from all sorts of activities that hackers/strongmen can to do so and, and, and…
We, the viewers ARE operating on a certain set of visual parameters, because we do KNOW the T story - very well. Trivia doesn’t count, and that seems to be much of what I have read in the posts from the producers.
What matters is TACTICS. We love Sarah bc she has learned to be an effective tactical LEADER against what is probably the most formidible enemy mankind has ever known. She is also passing on the legacy to her son, as the REASON she has taken on this massive responsibility upon herself. She has a total commitment to this, one that she is willing to risk her own life in order to save others.
Also, it is evident that her motivation to save her son is deeper than just a parent wanting their child to be safe: every family that send their young into war feels this, but Sarah’s goes much further. She knows that her offspring will ultimately save mankind - so she has a greater responsibility to the entire species THROUGH her son, which is why she tries to protect him.
We know this. I think the writers don’t focus on this quite as much as they need to develop a core audience of sufficient numbers. John certainly seems to forgot the pain and suffering his mom went through. He is more caught up in his own teanaged hormones than understanding that they are all playing their part in a “grand design” that are forces of nature at work greater than themselves.
Either John SHOULD kill himself (self terminate) to take himself out of the equation…otherwise, unless the writers tie up a plot that so far has been hard to follow even for enthusiastic fans, we’ll have to waith until the spring to see how & why John turns out to be the man we all want to see him be.
I think part of our frustration - now that I think about it - is that T2 and T3 have been about John, about Sarah (or the impact/influence/what she set in motion) and about the T’s good and bad. This show has gotten away from that. The first season I think was spot on target. This season has wandered from that, and the clear cut things we know have been set aside.
What they have been replaced with is rather disjointed and unclear. We see snipets, like watch a frenetic music video. We fans would prefer a full dance preformance; where we can appreciate the lines as well as the movement. You can’t do that with brief soundbites. It’s like trying to absorb what the world is all about while trying to watch the 6 o’clock news!
Most of the plotlines and threads have been a series of extended teaser cutscenes.
Like Dan, I’d like to see more substance.
I KNOW they have it, it’s just that they don’t SHOW it. Maybe they’ve been saving it for the back nine. Big gamble: may have lost the program in the process.
If they can’t continue then I hope they at least tie up the loose ends they have dangling all over the place in the time they do have…
As for Summer fans, I suggest you watch Serenity over and over and over. She was not quite utilized as much as she could have there either!
This show is THE BEST EVER. I find ZERO to fault. Everything is done wonderfully and without error. You are the bombs.
Good job, champs.
Gary and Logan, do you get my point?
Gary, I don’t want ALL the answers in one episode. Jeez, we’d have TV shows that last one episode…
And the killer is… Jesse!
The end. Roll credits.
It’s just that there are TWO SEASONS of questions to answer in NINE EPISODES. See a problem with that?
If the writing “style” is to be continued then they will chopped up into Kibble and given to us with very little substance.
The very PROBLEM I see: TOO MANY MINI STORIES and CHARACTERS AT ONCE. NOT ENOUGH DETAIL.
I give you my points, Gary, but you don’t seem to understand them or ignore them.
“Lost”, as an example, parcelled the answers out in small doses over its run. This show doesn’t even do that. At the moment anyway.
Then you want them to ADD more questions? This show is about to collapse under the weight of all the unanswered questions…
or are they going to ignore much of what they brought up like when they had to drop the entire high school plot? They had characters who looked interesting the surface, but they lost some golden opportunities… writers’ strike or not.
Time line after T2, yes. But this is NOT supposed to be a continuation of the exact same Sarah Connor and John Connor you saw in those movies. It’s BASED on those characters, but it’s not the same. And for good reason.
Do you guys have the T:SCC DVD? Have you seen the “Creating the Chronicles” features?
I’d have to guess no based on some of the things posted here, but I’m not sure.
Again, Gary, I think a MAJORITY of the fans that dropped out during the run of the show wanted a continuation of the James Cameron story started in the first two films with an eye to his style of story telling.
Intead, we have pretzelized easily killed Terminators (except for all of a sudden… one in Alpine Fields), very short or non existant battles and fighting of said Terminators, a soldier who has copious amounts of blood to spill in writing down a laundry list of clues before he then burts into the house and dies, crossdressing post-op tranny scientists, three dots that don’t come from ANYTHING, just dreams (T2’s dreams, including the one in the T2 extended cut had LOGIC to them), a tommy gun wielding Terminator who builds a structure just so he can kill one person and not evolve at all, turtles (though I know the symbolism) and metal cacti, psychologists who die without helping John OR doing anything of value, a female Terminator who can’t seemingly evolve or gain humanity (because, supposedly, that’s stupid even though that was part of THE WHOLE POINT of T2’s social message!!), a John Connor who only knows how to strip wallpaper and whine and act stupid, an FBI agent who doesn’t QUESTION what the hell is going on at Zera Corp. and is willing to have long dialogs with the shell of the murdering machine who killed his men and caused him to lose his job and his faith, a Terminator who can lose half his head and get miraculously rebuilt whole with current technology without a peep as to HOW to was done, Cameron flying through a plate glass window to suddenly fall unconscious for no apparent reason, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
That’s just sloppy writing and/or sloppy directing IMHO.
Come on!! And I have no reasons to complain?
Should we get new writers and/or producers?
Should we start discussing this relevant topic and get down to brass tacks?
Dan, all I can say is, this show is obviously not for you. And clearly some others as well. And that’s ok, there’s something out there for everybody.
When I see some of the stupid shows that DO have big viewing audiences, I know what they’re up against.
And are we giving robots too much power? And will a voting machine ever become president?
You decide.
***.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxdgNJ_lZM&NR=1
***.youtube.com/watch?v=tSEOXRLSpVc&feature=channel
This ONN channel reminds me SOOO much of the TV news satires on “Robocop” and “Starship Troopers.”
Too bad TSCC doesn’t take a tip from these. It might add a bit of the much needed humor and commentary missing this season.
“Would You Like to Know More?” LOL!
Gary, I’ll decide if there is hope in the Back 9… maybe the Fox brass saw something GREAT that I’m seeing this show is lacking right now.
It’s not that I don’t like sci-fi and thought provoking material. I just like it done in a better manner. It doesn’t have to be overly weird either. Leave the weird to Charlie Kaufman and other avante garde masters instead.
And I’ll check out Joss Whedon’s new show “Dollhouse.”
If “Dollhouse” IS better than TSCC maybe we can have a fan poll to have Summer move over to that show instead.
Let the battle of the hot female cyborgs commence in February!
Let the best badass babe win!
Dan. wow. those ARE a lot of problems
ok, my original post was stripped of the html tags…..
so this is for DEM….
substitute less than and greater than for ‘$’
i posted:
$ simplistic on $
Dan. wow. those ARE a lot of problems
$ simplistic off $
dashibbit,
For being simplistic you do make salient points.
and I did mean simplistic with a LOL! included, but it didn’t show up for some reason. Hmmm… [scratching my thick head.]
Anyhoo…
And here’s more water to splash on your fires… you don’t have answers for just ONE season to answer in 9 episodes, you have questions for TWO seasons worth.
If they CAN do it ALL and do it with mighty flare and dramatic panache and give me goosebumps like they did in some of the BEST episodes of Season 1, if not better, and have me begging for a Season 3 and 4 and 5, then I will gladly bow down and kiss the writer’s feet and EAT my words.
But I’m not hopeful, and that makes me very disappointed in having to say that.
I meant “you don’t have questions to just ONE season to answer…”
Gary,
I have not seen the features on the DVD. That may be the fundamental problem: how can a show have reasonable success if even avid fans have to go BUY data in order to actually (and fundamentally) enjoy the storyline that the writers are trying to portray?
Most folk have a hard enough time with scifi anyway - now we’re supposed to ALSO go out of our way and view some obscure (not on the beaten path) references in order to know what they were trying to do in the first place?
Why don’t they just TELL the viewers right up front? This ISN”T supposed to be abstract art, is it?
I’m not trying to berate the show bc I do enjoy it for its art, its writing, and its challenges (its not just a dumbed down B movie hackjob, they really ARE trying to give us a good product and it is plain to see it IN their efforts), but we all want to see this show continue AND be popular: the path they have taken to do this is blatently suspect. Even Scifi.com says so.
However, even Heroes is suffering from trying to be edgy, complex, and action-oriented. In doing so they lost sight of the scifi element in their plots, and are bleeding popularity because of it. The root cause of MAKING a superhero IS science fiction, and the root PURPOSE of a superhero is good vs. evil. Plain and simple.
Dan,
Ease up bro. At worst, we get 9 more of this series: enough time to wrap up most of their threads - and maybe throw in some specials or webesodes down the line.
We will get a good, quality T fix with T4, 5 and 6 for the forseeable future. No prob.
Let’s hope these will be better’n T3, is all. T:SCC show already is! That was more than I could have hoped for…
I hope T4 is good, but McG? McG as director??
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The humanity!!!!!
Does Halcyon think Terminator is a Michael Bay like vehicle where negatives are thrown into a Cuisinart and put in the puree cycle?
The reason T3 was a flop IMHO was because it forgot the tenants of James Cameron’s story… the HUMANITY and the SOCIAL MESSAGES behind it all. Remember the body count of Arnold’s direct actions throughout the T2 movie?: ZERO. He “got it” and the Tin-Man found his heart, as James Cameron stated personally.
T4 may blow sh-t up real good, but will it have substance AND longer than 10 second shots?
Coach, my post was probably misleading. The point I was taking from the DVD was Josh saying how the Sarah Connor character from T2 would not work in a TV show.
Clearly there are people who would rather have the T2 Sarah Connor each week, but I totally agree with Josh. That Sarah Connor is not one I would want to see on a weekly basis. She was fine for the 2 hour movie though.
And as different as this John Connor is, people don’t seem to realize part of the story of THIS Sarah Connor is raising a teenage boy who is NOT the future leader of the Resistance. Yet. He’s teenage boy with hormones and it’s hard on Sarah. It’s PART OF the story of the Sarah Connor Chronicles. This is not T2. Or T2.5
Clearly some people don’t like that. That’s why I say this show is obviously not for everyone. Personally I love this version of Sarah Connor and think Lena does a fantastic job.
The producers, writer and particularly the cast are very proud of the show. Summer explained in an interview how Thomas is portraying John Connor in a very smart way, giving his character lots of room to grow over time.
I know Dan is fuming over that one….
Again, it’s not for everyone. And especially not for those people who wanted the same exact characters from the movies.
I like the show a lot. My only complaint is similar to some of yours and others. I thought the expansion of characters AND the spreading of plot lines were a little too much all at once. A little too much of a departure from season one. That said, I’ve also enjoyed most of season two also. My personal preference would have been a little closer to season one.
But it’s still a lot of fun and I’m really looking forward to the back nine.
I know viewing numbers are important to the networks, but some of the better shows are canceled from lower viewer numbers. Dropping statistics doesn’t mean a show is bad. Hardly. The only reason I mention that is I know people are pointing to the ratings and statistics to prove their point.
I know, the networks can’t ignore the numbers and that’s the bottom line.
T3 was “bad” bc they tried to write in plot twists just to throw the audience off: John was a wimp, female T, Arnold (look-alike) killed John, then was sent back to protect him, can’t stop Skynet bc it was software not a mainframe to blow up…
These were all okay, but as a whole I came away feeling WHERE’S THE PLOT?
T:SCC has a lot of holes as well, but it is better on a whole higher level: it is clear these writers ARE doing this project out of love, not forumulaic instructions from the studio.
What they have yet to incorporate is how to give a damn about this project AND do what was done before - and will be done again - that MAKES T emmensely popular.
I have faith: Magic Johnson or Lebron James couldn’t shoot outside when they first came into the NBA - and it even took MJ years before he learned to make the players around him better, and thus began his legacy of winning championships.
What would have happened if fans just said “so what, he can score, big deal” to MJ when his first hit the big time? Wow, I hope Fox give T:SCC a chance to find its legs.
We ARE doing a bunching of bitching here, but then what we are complaining about IS the hole in the donut! NOT the taste!
T:SCC has the potential to BE the best show on TV. Not that the T myth is gonna support such a high brow aspiration, but you are right Dan, the social message undertone, both with the plot, the cyborg, and the principles of the humans struggling against their destruction, were prevelant in every single scene of T2.
This essence was captured in the first season of T:SCC. Now, we say not so much so - but the jury is STILL out on that verdict. Let’s see what the back 9 have to do with all of this. I can’t wait…
I agree with much of that coach, I too hope they give it a chance. Josh seems to have a large journey mapped out for the show and I hope they give it time.
But I fear it’s similar to Football organizations lately. If the head coach doesn’t get the team into the playoffs after one season, or two seasons at the most, they’re fired. They don’t give them a chance.
I guess TV has always been like that. They can’t afford to wait.
Too bad they don’t look at it from this perspective: what’s better?
Gary,
I am fuming in a way because John Connor is NOT a normal teenager. He is special. Not a god, but better than how he is being portrayed NOW and in the FUTURE on THIS show as a bumbling nitwit who gets people killed by being bullheaded and trying to work with machines to get rid of Skynet.
The writers and producers and actors may not see this in their writing and direction because they are INSIDE THE BOX. They are wrapped in their coccoons. Just like Scott McClellen was inside the White House. Once outside he saw the errors of his ways.
We, OTOH, are outside observers looking in and we do see the flaws and errors and gaffes.
John is selfish here and (in Josh’s own words) acting like an idiot. I dislike that in John. John in T2 was caring and decisive… the leader was showing up at a young age.
John in T2 would have put a hand out to Cameron and said let me help you through this. Even though you have problems, I will help you. I WILL BE YOUR FRIEND and I WILL NOT ABANDON YOU as he did with his mom. Arnold and Future John said Sarah was not important to the mission, but John said BS to that. He would not give up on her.
This is the glimmer of the man people would fight and die for. A smart, loving, and humane individual. A HERO.
This John states he thinks about JD all the time, but his actions betray that sentiment. He runs off to Mexico with Riley (Bad MOJO, I told you!!) and gets his mom and Derek in a pickle and gets people KILLED.
He runs off on Cameron and acts like a complete moron at the pier for Riley and almost gets killed in the process.
No decision making skills. No training is shown. He was in the frickin’ jungle and in the desert with Sarah. In T2 (as a boy) he can drive a car during a high speed chase and knows his weapons and builds his own high tech gadgets.
Season 2 John is even a lot different from Season 1 John. S1 John builds a high tech. virus and analyzes Terminator chips and uses Cameron’s chip to make a delivery device… S2 John does ALMOST NOTHING RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
He cares not one wit about his actions or is shown as sympathetic. I’m not talking about Sarkissian though the thought that HIS death creates PTSD is laughable in a fictional story of John Connor’s supposed rise.
Riley has been nothing but a drag on this show since day one. She’s worthless. Her diappearance will bring much joy to the suffering audience members. Nothing against, Leven, but like Thomas, she was dealt a bad hand at cards from the writers’ deck.
If she was IMPORTANT they could have at least spent a whole episode devoted to delving into her backstory and her relationship to Jesse’s plot. Let us feel a little bit sorry for the gutter snipe… or have her really loathed by being pushed and cajoled into murdering John Connor in the Future in a coup attempt and because Cameron is still alive they have to modify their plot… so the suicide scene is more poignant. She could have not been able to look at herself in the mirror because she has done great, great harm to John Connor in more ways than one and she is feeling guilty about it.
OR they could have had her be the younger sister of Allison Young. Why try to mess with John Connor’s head or even kill his Future self? PAY BACK for his actions or inactions for getting Allison killed in order to make Cameron, his right arm woman. Revenge is a dish best served cold, and Riley is dead inside as much as Derek was starting to be shown to be in S1… then nothing on him either.
As is… a SNIPPET OF STORY in “Earthlings” and CUT TO COMMERCIAL. Bah!!
Gary, I think I have a right to be hopping mad just a little bit and I think other fans who are seeing the potential, but no big follow through should to.
Season 2.5 will have to be pure gold and full of cool surprises that show that yes, the writers knew EXACTLY where all the pieces were going.
Not even the Heroes crew is getting that part right. Such is the state of TV and movie writing these days it seems. At least in the U.S.
The classic BBC show “Spaced” (Paintball sequence… an ode to Terminator and other cool action and war flicks). Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, and this whole team had no budget and they make things exciting and funny at the same time. This show was for nerds by talented nerds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHh4Ju7kXA
Check it out!
agree with that John does ALMOST NOTHING RIGHT
it’s really annoying
this show needs more of john and cameron..they relationship was one of the most important things in the great season 1
we need the old formula of season 1
We heap a lot of blame on the writers and creative staff, but I think we must also remember that theirs aren’t the only fingers in the pie. The “suits” have their own wants and desires. They want episodic television because ratings for reruns tend to be better. They want episodic television because it’s easier to strip in syndication. They want this. They want that. The advertisers paying for much of the show want certain things on top of that.
Meanwhile, back in GoodWritingLand, a dramatic series wants to be a serial story. I think the best solution is something they’ve tried (badly) on Heroes: have “chapters” or sub-seasons where you can focus on one story arc that can be more compartmentalized than a pure serial as well as more structured than a pure episodic.
It’s actually amazing that anything good ever shows up on television at all.
I don’t know who the people are here who want T2/feral-Sarah every week. I haven’t seen that expressed, I’m not a long distance mind-reader, and, honestly, I don’t see the point in lecturing viewers about what they should or shouldn’t want.
I will say this: TSCC is the only fandom I currently participate in on a regular basis. Lost and Heroes both lost me long ago. I still watch them, bit TSCC the only show I like and care about enough to invest the time critiquing it.
In any case, I do think numbers can tell us something about the health of a show. It’s not just the ratings; it’s there in the activity-level of online fandom (e.g., discussion boards and fanfiction). Given the genre, demographic, and even taking into account Nielsen ratings, that level is strikingly low, anemic even. Clearly something is missing or not connecting or whatever. That worries me.
So what’s the magic formula for TSCC?
My favorite episodes so far this season are Samson and Delilah, Allison from Palmdale, and the Brothers of Nablus. They involve signicant interaction between the central characters, with a theme of Sarah and/or John (and Derek) reacting to the constantly evolving terminator in their midst. For me, that’s the magic formula.
Beside Weaver as the new Big Bad, I’m not sold on the rest of the expanded cast. Sure Riley and Jesse have made things more complicated, but I felt things were complicated enough already. I think expanding the cast simply made it easier to produce episodes because they are able to film more storylines simultaneously instead of sequentially.
Whatever the gains from expanding the cast, they are offset by losses in cohesive storytelling. The arc on individual storylines are stretched out much too long over the course of the season.
Here’s what I would do to prepare for Season 3:
- Wrap up the Jesse and Riley storylines.
- Make the Connors a team again; in particular, have John and Cameron reconcile.
- Have John come to terms with his fate, so that viewers can root for him again.
- Wrap up the bloody basement/ 3 dots storylines
If these things were to occur in the back 9, I think we would be well positioned to recreate the magic of the first season.
I agree with what Logan said. That’s what I would love to see in the rest of the season. I really hope this move to Friday helps *fingers very tightly crossed*. I’m in Canada, so my ratings don’t help, but I’m still really hopeful.
Also, I bought the soundtrack, and just love it! I’ve always thought TSCC has such great music, and now I can own it!
Here’s what I think is missing on TSCC as well:
The REASONS we need to stop Judgment Day and why it’s bad, through the actions and words and visuals of James Cameron’s epic.
In T2 we had actual social messages embedded within the story:
1) War is terrible, Nuclear War is hell on Earth
2) Innocence dies if JD happens. Hence the imagry of children playing, fires engulfing the same playground. Sarah dreaming of an world as a normal mom playing with children… then the bomb drops and horrible things happen to Sarah and the children.
3) Killing is bad. Arnold kills NO ONE and still gets the job done. Though he still likes to blow stuff up, he makes sure no one is hurt in the process.
4) And a child shall lead the way. John Connor, an innocent, convinces a cold blooded killer to re-evaluate his priorities in life and find his heart. Future John never took that instinct to kill from Arnold. Arnold stopped on his own in the present and seeing thing purely as a child does, not a callused-by-war adult. He even SWORE he would not kill anyone… and he kept his word (though he found ways around being overly “nice” because he was still a bit blunt in his actions). He was like a curious child as much as John Connor was… and they connected.
5) John Connor does not abandon his loved ones… not even cyborgs or the man who helps create Skynet in James Cameron’s arc, Miles Dyson. He decides to save his mother, though she is not concidered important to the main mission. He helps her recover and reconnect with some of her lost humanity. He stops his mom from destroying Arnold. He helps Sarah see that killing Miles is not the only solution.
6) Man can be clouded by delusions of grandeur and be blinded into doing and creating horrible things. If he don’t stop this mind set… we are doomed.
7) A Terminator, a *machine*, becomes a HERO and a ROLL MODEL, and has HONOR and INTEGRITY.
9) If a machine can learn to value human life… MAYBE WE CAN TOO.
Think on it… please!
Judgment Day on this show is AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT.
In “The Terminator” and Terminator 2 it meant HELL ON EARTH. You don’t want HELL ON EARTH do you?
Well, then… you have to FIGHT and STOP IT NOW!!!!
One of my concerns is that the writers have lost the DRIVE of this show, its MAIN PURPOSE.
Why do the characters FIGHT? Why should WE fight?
To allow LOVE and BEAUTY and WONDER and ART and CULTURE and NATURE and FAMILIES and FRIENDS and LOVED ONES to SURVIVE and PROSPER.
Those are reasons enough to have everyone GET OFF THEIR BUTTS!!!!
Where has the MAIN FOCUS and DRIVE gone to? UFO’s? Trannies? Three Dots? Riley? Jesse? The 1920’s? Psychiatrists’ names on bloody walls who die without any real importance or purpose (Dr. Sherman… hmmm?) Dreams of Metal Cacti and Turtles? Peachy Keen Slushies??
HOW ABOUT STOPPING SKYNET and *GROWING* THE CHARACTERS AND *BUILDING HEROES* LIKE JOHN AND CAMOERON??
How about showing some warmth, love, honor, compassion, friendship, and deep love from the good guys (did they all fall off a cliff… where’d they go?)?
If I were Cameron and I was around this lot in its current state I’d tell John: shoot me, burn me, and then shoot yourself. Life just ain’t worth livin’!!”
Stop the moping around and DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE with your LIMITED TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for the yelling. [ducks from the objects being thrown my way]
i really hope than the writers read all these and make this show better for the safe of the show
I agree with those four points Logan makes. From what I’ve read on different forums, most people who watch the show have the same problem with season two.
I’d go further with the newcomers, though. Jesse and Riley have brought nothing interesting to the story except taken up screen time that would have been better spent on scenes with Derek and John forming a stronger bond.
I neither like nor hate Weaver, but her role as the manipulator in what is supposed to be the John Henry story is pretty frustrating to watch and I can’t imagine it getting better with time. Besides, Manson can’t act and really shouldn’t be the one to carry any storylines on the show if there are better people for the job. She’s served her purpose and needs to go now.
Beyond that, I don’t think anyone has ever complained about a lack of interesting characters in season one, so I can’t fathom why you’d introduce three sneaky characters from the future - all female, all with secret agendas, all annoying more often than not - and then not even bother to explain them properly halfway through the season. I honestly don’t see how any of the three can do anything except drag the show down. Even if they could, it would be too little and half a season too late.
Shakespeare suggested in Hamlet “Brevity is the soul of wit.” Instead of repeating the same vapid criticism of what this show is not, I would suggest some “writers” get an alternative constructive hobby to restore the engaging give and take that first attracted me to this blog. I am refreshed by the vitality Josh Friedman and his team have restored to this franchise. Let them work while some bloggers take a rest…just a suggestion.
David,
Basically, are you saying that only those who have no problem with this show and agree with you should blog?
Here’s a little 90’s popular pop ditty that other fans have posted before on other boards. Sorry guys, it’s a Jameron song.
Oasis - “Wonderwall”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7UnmoTK9bQ
The more I read, the less I like.
Thank goodness for podcasts, thank goodness some writers are actually responding to posts and telling their viewpoint.
As for the podcasts, it sounds as if there are bonuses given for side characters introduced. Perhaps IMHO it cuts down on what they have to pay the main stars. It sounds, anyway, like there is more incentive to bog the story down (as has been happening) with superfluous baggage than move the story along with the main characters we have.
As for the forums… at least one writer’s responses seem to show actual CONTEMPT for James Cameron’s own *personal* vision of the story and its characters. I hope that’s not what he meant, but to some Terminator fans (perhaps MANY) it sure could rub their rhubarb the wrong way!
These big issues seem to be showing up in the actual writing of said characters and story lines and why things have veered so wildly away from the vibe of the original two movies.
What us nay-sayers have been pointing out FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
That is why T3 stunk so badly, the writers seemed to care not one wit about the original stories and characters, to which T1 and T2 are considered classics… like it or not, real *classics* of the genre.
If it is true that some or all of the writers and producers and creators are showing actual arrogance and contempt towards James Cameron, his movies and their concepts many of the fans love so much, and they are worried more about bonuses than a coherent story line…
They should be *fired* and replaced with people who really care and want to honor these films, just as NBC fired many of the people behind “Heroes” and its failures. Like it or not, they did it to try and DO SOMETHING to help bring the audience BACK.
Dan:
I don’t mind the opinions, just the repetitions and the musical flights of fancy. I even agree with your point that the writers are developing JC so slowly he needs more arrows in his quiver if he’s going to save mankind. I do ,however, respect that the writers read and respond to this blog and constructive criticism is more productive(and useful) than rants that blog the reader senseless. Skillful writers should assume the readers understand even if they don’t completely agree…Right?
Hey, David. Read what I wrote above. It may give you insight.
It sure made me PO’d when I found out.
I was reading in the Fox message boards and someone had an interesting idea: that Terminators were the embodiment of SKYNET!
This led me to a curious thought: what if SKYNET simply uploaded its own “awareness files” (or a sufficient portion of them to survive) and sent one or more cyborgs back to live among us - or to go into hiding ala’ “Self Made Man T-888 - in order to insure that SKYNET would ultimately be able to take over and create JDay.
How would Sarah fight that? Multiple targets, all unknown, maybe operating simulaneously? Off the grid - as SHE operates?
Scary proposition! One that would make for a good action sequence/arc…what do you think?
Coach,
If the writing staff is thinking what I think they’re thinking… it doesn’t matter what anybody has to say, even the fans.
Not even James Cameron could sway them unless he bought back the rights from Halcyon and made his personal imprint on the show. He has enough money… he could if he wanted.
But I think the story actually stopped at T2. I’m thinkin’ that more and more.
If they really wanted a new spin on this franchise, maybe they should have called it:
“Terminator: The Rebirth” or something like that and rebooted and started a completely different story if James Cameron’s ideas were too hard to understand or were to be ignored completely.
Christopher Nolan’s “Batman Begins” started over from scratch rather than try to shoehorn into Tim Burton’s original films.
That was the mistake of “Superman Returns” as I’ve mentioned before. It was trying to use Richard Donnor’s Superman 1 & 2 as a spring board, but forgot about what made them so popular in the first place.
TSCC probably wouldn’t have been compared and held up against James Cameron’s films as much as they are now.
So where are the promised updates to the blog?
Give us something!
@Roman -
I ate them.
Dude, patience. “…will be returning relaunched and redesigned around January 9th.”
Oh, THAT’S the significance of the Jan 9th date! I thought I’d read that somewhere, but try to process so many things throughout the day I just skim a lot of the data provided.
My one guilty pleasure is reading this forum and seeing what peers have to share…although Dan is increasingly more harsh on them I hope they too take the time to read this.
I would also hope that somehow Josh and James collab on overall plot elements, so the T-verse can “gel” and have some kind of cohesiveness.
It could be a “bad thing” if/when T4 comes out and it has elements that are completely contradictory to what is in T:SCC.
Does anyone know if they are in comm with each other?
I’m increasingly more harsh because I’m starting to get a bad vibe. Maybe I read too much, listen too much, whatever…
But, there IS a reason.
And no, Coach, I don’t think James Cameron would be too welcome at this writers’ table, irrespective of the fact they named Cameron after him.
They also named Riley after one of Fox’s top execs. and Riley is not exactly a popular character. What does that tell you?
Why wouldn’t James be welcome?
Are they trying to “do their own thing”.
If so, they should have started a whole new series with onother name - or only make give casual references to JDay and SKYNET and what Sarah is trying to do and John is supposed to do in the future (kinda like they are doing now!).
But to lean heavily on the popularity of the franchise but not use ALL the resources they have responsibile for establishing its popularity…might explain why it is not as popular as we all think it should be.
I dig the characters, the acting, and the writing. But I’d like to see that (which is good) and more core T-stuff, that we’ve come to know and love.
How do we know this if not through Cameron? He’s like the J.C. of the T-verse! Is Josh Buddah? Or is he even trying to be?
Whatever he is if he doesn’t bust a move in the right direction soon, he may become like Zues or Odin…
Scifi Wire has an interview with Dekker that may alleviate some of our fears, and maybe put a halt to the petition to replace the writing staff (some spoilers):
http://scifiwire.com/2009/01/thomas-dekker-drops-spoilers-for-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles.php#more
Specifically, he mentioned that it was the powers-that-be that wanted more standalone episodes which lead the writers to invent the bloody wall, which then lead to terminator of the week failure.
Thanks for providing that! Certainly gives us a lot to think about and look forward to…unexpected - maybe that’s the thing I think the writers of T:SCC impress me with (and why I’m such a big fan of this show good/bad/right/worng/ gimme more/gimme more!).
I still wonder two things:
Why the Conners don’t get themselves more HELP to provide for the future. Taking on the whole of the destructors by yourself is a terribly HUGE task! Plus, it’d be like a cop going in on a 187 call all by himslf with no back up AND without calling it in: the arrogance! (…and stopidity.)
I also wonder why John is such a dweeb. I’ve met Warlords in Liberia who gave a meal to kids half his age when they went out and shot someone - anyone - for whatever reason or none at all. People adapt to their circumstance, in order to survive.
He’s gonna be the savior of all humanity. Deal with it! At least he should be thankful that he’s got some time to PREPARE.
But it seems they don’t DO a lot of preparing. Tactically, their one objective is a pre-emptive strike to take SKYNET out before it can get started.
Failing that, then what? Never discussed.
Never.
Can you say “bad planning”
And snivelling wittle Johnny is too busy whining about being “put upon” by his mother and the rest of the human race to notice…
Wow.
Told you about the suits. Wish they’d just let the creative types be…you know, creative.
Regardless, if what TD said is close to what actually makes it to the screen, should be a cool back nine.
Should be. I am reminded however of something I once was told as a political tactic: “If you want something stalled forever, put it in a commitee.”
The suits have no business trying to set policy on writing - specially on such a cutting-edge program like T:SCC.
All they did was muck up the works, and maybe sealed their own doom!
I don’t think some of the problematic things that have been noticed are *all* the fault of the suits. Good writers can run with what you give them and still come out on top.
If you listen to the podcasts of Season 2 and read what the writers who do speak up have said…
I still have major concerns.
However, it may all be in vain anyway. The numbers are not good. Fridays are not good…
and the choppy and insubstantial storytelling IS NOT the fault of the suits.
I JUST DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE CHARACTERS ANYMORE. They made me lose interest in their plight. NO ONE is sympathetic. Or if they are, like Cameron in some episodes, it’s all brought to screaching halt at the end of the episodes where I’m mad at her character AND the writers for spoiling the good vibes.
All those elements have NOTHING to do with stand alone episodes, that has EVERYTHING to do with bad writing choices.
Did anyone tell them they must have three or four running stories at the same time each episode where neither the characters nor the story is given any real depth, or meat, or whaever you want to describe it as?
NO!!
I still think the seeming contempt and disregard for the elements that made James Cameron’s story so great…
has A LOT to do with why they are failing so miserably despite the fine acting by the cast, and especially Summer.
If they get a THIRD season by some miracle, if I were the powers that be, I would give a NEW, FRESH writing and producing team more leeway to put this ship BACK ON COURSE and more Terminator-like and it doesn’t stray into weirdsville (three dots, transexual bloggers, choppy story telling with more questions raised than ever answered, and unfeeling good-guy or in this case, good-gal Terminators) and with unlikeable characters.
Why can’t Halcyon give a little extra funding to this show for better effects and stunt work so they can open the story up more?
Many of my points I’ve raised along the way still stand regardless of what spin Dekker puts on things in a very leading Q&A session that sounds more like an advert than an indepth, no-hold-barred interview.
The Back 9 had better be 180 better than what we’ve seen so far this season,
or this show will be just another failed attempt at a good idea gone horribly wrong by the wrong people at the wrong time, with the wrong view of the Terminator saga.
And then I’ll hope to God Joss Whedon’s “Dollhouse” is a heck of a lot better.
Dan, your opinion is clear now, no need to keep on repeating the same message in 50 posts.
I for one, am quite happy with what Dekker says in the interview. Don’t forget there were great episodes in season 2, it’s just that overall story and character development is a bit lacking (expecially development of the machine side). Sounds good to me, although I am not to sure about Kyle returning. We’ll see. Can’t wait for the next nine!
Call me crazy, but I still care about these characters.
Yeah, I’m am relieved by some of Dekker’s remarks, but he may have confirmed one of my worst fears: that TSCC will bring Kyle Connor back to life in the present. That scares the hell out of me. How can they do that without being cheesy? It reminds me of a soap opera where you find out that a certain character didn’t really die, but was in a coma in an undisclosed location, and lost his memory, etc.
I know time travel allows you to do some cool things, but bringing Kyle back to the present seems unnecessary. When I saw the trailer with Kyle after the midseason finale, I hoped Sarah was hallucinating. I still hope Sarah was hallucinating. How are they going to pull this off without losing credibility with their audience?
One thing though. Dekker seems to confirm that the writers are as smart as I think they are, so maybe my fears are overwrought. I guess we just have wait and see.
Thanks for the reference to the Dekker interview. I’m glad the writers are as tired of the “special guest terminator of the week” as we are. I support the show because the original JC has moved on to more titanic projects but even his first concept of the terminator was an infiltrator to be played by Lance Hendrickson (”Bishop” from Aliens), not a dialogue-challenged Austrian muscleman.
My present concern focuses on plot R and D. Which points are resolved and which ones are dismissed? What happened to the ur-Riley of the first season that Morris called “damaged goods”? For that matter what happened to Morris? Minor quibbles…super-grunt Derek cries twice in related moments(nice touches, Mr. Green) after an exchange with Cameron about her true identity.(I know you-I know you, too). Soon to be revealed?
But the reappearance of Peter Mensah as Connor’s XO recalled a major contradiction at least in perception. Cameron in the famous chip scene from the pilot: “You have many friends in the future.” The general to Derek Reese from the conclusion of Dungeons and Dragons: “Connor doesn’t have any friends.” Worth resolving…
Cameron never said that John’s friends were human. (Wow…I just intrigued myself.)
That aside, it seems that a lot of Connor’s men are negative-reflective platitudists. You say, “You could die.” I respond, “We’re all going to die.” You say, “You need to get some rest.” I respond, “THEY never rest.”
There are many examples of this sort of speech in post-JD tunnels. AFter all, it can be useful for your cannon fodder to believe and reflexively spew the party line. History shows (repeatedly) that leaders often make the mistake of wanting non-thinking order-followers. It’s easier. You take out the thinkers and you lessen the chance of a coup. It doesn’t matter if you are John Connor with gung-ho survivors or Skynet with read-only battle bots.
So…I don’t put a lot of weight to the “Connor doesn’t have any friends.” line.
CJ:
Ditto on the intrigue-I hadn’t thought of it that way either. I simply thought of the general’s comment in the context of “that Connor is one cold, calculating SOB.” (sorry Sarah but it’s really a compliment) He’ll do what has to be done including sending his own father on a one-way mission. I admire that but it doesn’t sound very warm and snuggly.
I think that in his role as a savior JC works better as an enigma wrapped in a riddle.
I agree. John needs to be both the battle-hardened soldier, a master (or lucky) strategist, and one thing more: human.
It’s so easy, using the images of future-John we’ve gotten from the films, to see him as all mission-only. Perhaps that’s what might be necessary, but I think it misses the mark. The way to defeat Skynet isn’t to become a terminator yourself, but to be what Skynet cannot: human.
I think that’s what a big key of the series is: humanity. Sarah oozes it with every bad decision that has left the wrong person alive. She also shows it in spades with every turtle she turns over. You see, that influences not only John, but Cameron as well.
While John is learning his lessons that sometimes, even in war, you have to do the right thing even when it’s not the smart thing lest you lose your sense of purpose, Cameron is learning that there is more to “life” than being guided by a program.
Our questions are: will John find the balance that he needs; and will Cameron use her knowledge to aide John, or will she instead help Skynet? (I choose the former as the writers would otherwise betray a trust that they’ve worked hard to forge. That sort of thing can be a franchise-killer because the bad taste of it would linger.)
CJ, I dig the thought stream!
“The way to defeat Skynet isn’t to become a terminator yourself, but to be what Skynet cannot: human.”
Could it be that Weaver is trying to figure out how to DO this through John Henry - and thus upset the “human” factor in the “human equation?”
Could it be that Cameron is somehow aware of this effort by Weaver (or a historical appoximation - why wouldn’t she have data files on Weaver’s activities in the past?), and is both trying to learn HOW it is that cyborbs learn TO become human in order to counterstrike Weaver’s counterstrike?
Would make for a good season three arc, don’t you think?
–Send a memo to the suits!
Weaver’s attempts would seem to indicate a desire (by Skynet) to incorporate into its development something that it needs in the future to ensure victory.
Thing is, Weaver is trying to break her mount while the Connors (including future-John) are gentling theirs. I think that regardless of Catherine’s attempts with John-martie, she’ll ultimately be unsuccessful. I’d put my money on the cyborg-whisperers in this horse race.
Actually, if we follow the T-mythology that we know (not whatever it is the writers of T:SCC have on the boards for us - that the suits will have to approve for next season for us to get any sort of idea what THAT really is) by the T3 comes around John is all that there is left: Sarah, Cam, Derek, Jesse, Ellison, Weaver, Riley, Charlie, et al are all GONE.
Oh, and SKYNET comes about anyway and so does JDay.
So much for happy endings.
But then, as a thought, we are not in this for the outcome as we already know that, and have for a couple of decades.
Wer’re in it bc it is not whether or not we win or lose (we lose everything in order to win and JC leads the way) it is HOW the game is played.
THis is where Sarah excels, and thus WHY she is still the central character - as long as she is alive…
The time-travel story from terminator always reminded me of the myth of Pandora. Angry that primitive mankind had been given fire, Zeus gave Pandora as a bride and presented her with a gift and the curious instruction that it was not to be opened. Unable to contain her curiosity she found inside every human agony from death to disease. After all the suffering from the opened box was unleashed on mankind a single thing remained, hope. Even after Judgment Day and the machine holocaust, mankind, under the leadership of John Connor, survives and triumphs but the only future victory lies beyond the inevitable and unavoidable nightmare. The agony protects the promise, the hope that Kyle Reese brought with him with his love from the future. That is the equation that takes the mythology of terminator to the level of Greek tragedy or biblical scripture. Break any link in the chain of causality, past, present or future, and the empty remains blow away. Without that mythology that many fail to recognize, all that remains is the gunfire and car chases.
Hmmm… seems like we viewers have some pretty interesting ideas floating around in our heads.
We keep talking about humanity, but that doesn’t seem to be happening on THIS show much.
In-fighting, arguing, sniping, back stabbing, no listening, no TEAMWORK or commoradory or friendship or loving attitude at all this season. The one time John joins in on the ill-fated trip to Mexico is after the fact. He shoots Cromartie after everyone else has done the dirty work. But he’s caused numerous deaths to occur needlessly.
I hate that dynamic. I hate them being separated and I don’t like that you cannot rely on anyone. Not one character is doing things right. Even Sarah is acting like a dope and not following any kind of training to scope out a possible enemy facility in “Earthlings.”
Again, in T2 THAT Sarah Connor acts like an assassin who knows what she’s about. Her problem is not that she is not skilled at killing… she’s become TOO good at it. John has to talk her down and make her see reason again.
That’s one reason I’m not attached to any of the characters this season. I just don’t like them… sometimes even Cameron as I’ve mentioned before.
There are good elements WITHIN the stories, but they are few and far between.
I REALLY was excited about the prospects of this show during Season 1. It really started to find a rhythm and flow towards the later part of the season…
And then the show careened right off the tracks, down an embankment, and blew up.
Except for a few goofy and illogical bits in Samson and Delilah I was hoping most of the magic of Season 1 was back. As I started going along I noticed a complete lack of focus and the stories and the characters became a mess.
Yes, I liked “Alison From Palmdale” mainly because of Summer’s great acting, but the concepts it started in Cameron’s ability to really feel and emote really turned me off. The magic and wonder of “The Demon Hand”’s ending and narration was destroyed.
The suits didn’t do that… the writers did that. In fact, it was by the same writer who wrote “The Demon Hand” who started yanking the rug out from under Cameron.
Maybe they thought John and Cameron were becoming too popular and they thought they were taking away from Sarah so they started crapping on the two of them to build Sarah up. Then they turned Sarah slightly mad again. Then the coolness and danger of Derek’s vendetta prone style and go-it-alone decision making was neutered too.
I still liked the concept of a human like Derek losing his soul to anger and despair over JD and losing his brother because of metal AND John Connor’s decisions. He becomes a killing machine.
Then on the flip side with Cameron you had a cold, calculating, and amoral killing machine in reality start to question her past and her original design, learn from her mistakes, and start to wonder if maybe there wasn’t something more to life than just being a Terminator. She starts to buck her programming and gain a kind of awareness of the world around her, and gain curiosity. Why are humans only good for killing? Why are they so resiliant? Why are won’t they back down and admit defeat?
In that questioning, she gains insight and a growing humanity. She’s views the world through a slightly cracked lens, but wants to experience things anyway and still learns and grows as an individual.
Cameron gains her soul and her values and her heart while someone like Derek, a human… starts losing what it means to be a human.
The machine is more human than the human.
That would have been a cool type of roll reversal IMHO. But I don’t think we’re going to see anything like that.
Everyone is staying too static.
Because… why did James Cameron decide to humanize Arnold? It had nothing to do with AI at all. It was to show what WE humans should become: HONOR-BASED, MORAL, ETHICAL, and VALUE oriented beings. So we can survive and be better for it.
Arnold (Uncle Bob) was a mirror-like character for the audience much like Forrest Gump was on the positive side, or on the negative side, Salieri in “Amadeus.”
That’s one of the key elements I don’t think THIS writing staff got from the Terminator legacy.
That’s what irks me… that they may not have “gotten it.”
I still care a lot about the characters as well The colours, or I wouldn’t be here
To CJ: you intrigued me as well! Who did say John’s friends were human… He is putting metal in all the camps… and there are more hints that might point to that direction. And maybe explain people opposing him like the whole riley story. Intriguing indeed!
Dan,
Ease up on the neg vibe man: don’t bring this forum “down” (like the show!) - even tho yur right!
You do make some leaps for humanity that would make a soapbox blush…Arnold never got “humanity” in T2. All he ever did was follow his programming, based upon the function he was built for: follow humans and get close enough to them (unsuspectingly) to kill them.
You analyze ever detail of this show and do bring up worthwhile points - if you were sitting at a scriptwriting bluesky session with Josh and his crew. But you are not. This is entertainment, pure and simple.
It ain’t that serious dude; even tho peeps jobs are at stake. We’ll get by with or without season 3, dig?
Where was all this intel when W was feeding bs to the media re WMD, and no one came to the defense of the Dixie chicks for coming from the same state.
We coulda used your insight then…
Hindsight IS 20/20. Or thousands should have went on vacation on 9/10.
It’s hard to be out front and make the call - BEFORE it counts. Ask Congresswoman Barbara Lee.
Networks can shows good and bad all the time for God knows what reasons - even popular ones sometimes. Josh and the writers at least set up a communication medium and I think that DOES provide some semblence of respect: this IS their ball.
Being “right” doesn’t mean you have to shove it down their throats. Remember, they probably work hard, and they do a job job. I say this because MOST of us who watch the show ENJOY it. The proof is that this is a coordinated PERFORMANCE, and we LIKE it.
Sure, I might do something different. But how do you know what will work? BSG? MNF? MTV? But I’m not sitting at that table trying to figure it all out. If I were (or you were) I’m sure we’d MISS something. No way we are going to please EVERYONE, and certainly not ALL the time. Not even God can make two mountains without having a valley in bewteen…
I think my message to you is one of tact. Harping on every bad point makes this no diff than sport talk radio. Why then should Josh bother to tune into that stuff?
We need to do better than that. I think we DO, on THIS forum, and it is a precious commodity, because it is clear to see that you do care - as we all do. This is the very definition of a FAN.
I have no solution for this show other than to do what American Idol doses: run two hour segments every week.
And not even that would satify us!
That’s the true test of KNOWING the product you are creating is really good: people want MORE of it. In this case we can’t get enough.
I’m IN marketing so I can tell you what the Fox suits probably know but aren’t willing to admit: with cutting edge products there is a lag before the product goes mainstream.
Fox hasn’t had good scifi since the X-Files, and the only really smart, new, unique writing they’ve had since is 24.
This show is trying to do something new, and that is easy to see. We all know that not everything is going to work, but hey it IS a learning process. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
The problem is not that there are so many flaws. The problem is we know EXACTLY what to expect and EXACTLY what the outcome is going to be. They could probably put multiple choice scenarios up on the screan and we could write, imagine, or collaborate our OWN segments!
But we don’t do that (yet) with this medium. They are trying to be “interactive” doing forums like this, but, at the end of the day all we can do is sit back and enjoy the ride.
It IS a thrill ride, and anyone determined to stand up while the ride is in motion and complain about the faults OF the ride 9while riding0 can become an annoyance - right OR wrong!
Like The Matrix, the W Bros didn’t consult the audience in advance. They kept their plot on the hush-hush, and brought something new to the world and it paid off because we ENJOYED it. But IF they tried to do a TV show, man! They’d be hip deep in dog poop - because the franchise is so well known that we OWN it now (or we THINK we do).
Well, truth is, when we get a great ride like that we should just enjoy it, like taking a cruise is double-decker Corvette where we can all come along: only one person can drive, but the rest of can still have great fun as passengers.
One passenger to another I’ll say what I’m sure the writers will want to say, but might offend you or other fans…
It is THEIR hands on the wheel, man!
Let them do their thing. TRUST them: they’ve gotten along (with us) thus far, and they still have horsepower AND willing fans that want to ride along.
Besides (from a fan’s perspective), our Corvette - for all its flaws - is still better than just about anything else that pulls up along side it. IMHO
This extended dark period has been interesting. I bounce between the various forums seeing what the fans are talking about. My, we are a passionate bunch. And that’s good. I’ve never been around a healthy fandom that didn’t have passion.
It’s during these breaks (such as the long one in summer) that one bug-a-boo rears its head: fan expectations vs what the creative team delivers. The more fervent the fans, the harder, it seems, that great pleasure will be won. Nature of the beast, I suppose.
Me…being a writer by nature, I just blather on. It’s fun for me. Since the break I’ve written 12 posts on my blog regarding terminator (those that drop by know that my posts aren’t trivially short, either). I’ll even take flights of fancy. I’m not above a fanfic or twelve. With TSCC, I’ve just considered scenarios and written them out, aiming only to please myself with the thought exercise (it’s either that or gribble during this valley of new info). [Gribble? That's a word.....now.] The latest effort of that series of drivel just got posted ( http://cjcs.com/tib/recing-on/ttscc-recing-on/1911/ttscc-scenes-i%e2%80%99d-like-to-see-part-3/ }
Be that as it may, I often find comfort in hindsight. I’ve been in several multi-season fandoms. Inevitably, there is a fan uproar about something or other. But…when you go back and watch the DVD set without the added stress of having to wait a whole week (or a few months) for the next installment, everything begins to not look nearly as bad as it was the first go ’round. That knowledge has cultivated in me a certain patience.
This isn’t to say that I don’t complain. I mean, sometimes things just rankle. Like in “Earthlings…” When Ellison was talking to the pastor, I’m sure the info was very important to the story and character development. Whatever. I was just mired in how static the scene was. I mean, is there anything more boring than watching two guys just stand and talk?…unless it’s a guy and a robot sitting and talking (yep, both in the same ep *sigh*).
I figure that if a show has spurred my imagination enough to not only blog about it, but to do fanfic, they must be doing something right. I don’t lend my imagination out to just any ol’ tv riff-raff, after all
Well said, Coach K and CJ. Armchair quarterbacks don’t have interceptions, only touchdowns.
But if no one speaks up… then all the writers see are NUMBERS.
I am a voice, not a number, not a rating statistic.
The HEART has gone out of the show, the HUMANITY, even if there are some cool concepts buried deep in the bowels of the writers’ room.
If they didn’t show possible contempt for James Cameron’s story and its ideals and easy to understand VIEWPOINT, and they didn’t start screwing up the flow and rhythm for bonuses then I’d be a lot happier than I am now.
That makes me LOSE respect and admiration for the writers and for the creators. That means they weren’t really Terminator fans to begin with; they were just riding on the coat tails of a popular franchise (like Halcyon) without knowing anything about what made that franchise of *two* films so good and have such a following.
That makes me sad. It’s like we’ve been duped.
You know, I agree that Fox needs to keep the past episodes available for people who have just started watching it. But I found another way…As a fanatic viewer of T:SCC, I sat down and read the recaps with a friend of mine to catch him up on where the show is, and to fill him in on the gaps the recaps have. That helped him a great deal, and now he is readdicted to the show. It took some time, but, personally, I would do just about anything to keep this show on the air for many years to come!!!! GREAT JOB, GUYS!!!!!
I know many are not too keen on Riley and why she was brought on board, so I hope some of you Riley-haters enjoy this song as a kind of respite, as much as I do…
The Spin Doctors: “Little Miss Can’t Be Wrong.”
John’s final farewell to our Spooky Ninja…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=givZsEAW80k
“Been a whole lot easier since that bitch left town
It’s been a whole lot happier without that face around…”
**EVERYONE PLEASE READ.
This is yet more proof that ratings should be counted in more places then just the USA. I’m told that T:TSCC is huge over in England as well as Brazil and even here in Canada. I’m sure there are more places as well.
Now, go to cameronandjohn.com to watch a music video by a Japanese artist called Gackt to his new song called “Ghost”. There are clips from throughout Season 1 of T:TSCC. It is not John/Cameron based, if that’s what you are worried about, there is simply a link.
So see, other countries then just USA have TVs and fans for T:TSCC. So FOX needs to start realizing this.
Callie: If Warner Brothers distributes TSCC outside of the U.S. at all then Fox probably doesn’t give a two shilling s— about the outside world’s ratings. That also goes for U.S. based advertisers.
It didn’t save Firefly (grumble, grumble) and that was a Fox owned property.
If THEY make money… then they start paying attention.
Good thoughts, though. And I appreciate you speaking up about fans outside the U.S. who are so often ignored.
I’ve written to FOX, but I doubt it will ever get read, by anyone other then a machine sending out automated responses. It just makes me so mad that a brilliant show like TSCC is in danger of being canceled, while the same old Sitcoms and Reality shows are getting ratings through the roof. To me, this shows a big flaw in the system.
Yes, it’s a song link, but it really fits the way I’m feeling about some of the humanity-lacking emptiness in the show at the moment (where I’m not feeling empathy for the characters) IMHO and it also is a kind of plea from a lot of the Cameron and James Cameron movie fans out there…
Evanescence: “Bring Me To Life”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2-upM_F2yY
Dan,
As far as “lack of humanity” goes…
I guess you missed the part where John hugs Sarah after she smashes the gun after they killed Chromartie.
Or when Derek told Jessie he was waiting for her after she stopped him from commiting suicide.
Or when John consoled Charlie after the death of his wife.
Or when…
Oh, never mind.
Just keep posting you stupid lyrics.
T-Fan,
Those types of scenes are great to see and I love ‘em too, but they don’t do much of that, which is a terrible shame (that’s what I mean by a lack of humanity). Most of the time the characters go right back to their wonky ways right afterwards as if they haven’t learned a darn thing.
It’s like there’s a disconnect between the different writers, not a smooth progression from one story to the next.
Hate on me all you want just as I give the writers the dickens, but you have to REALLY get down to the nitty gritty of what IS NOT working on this show.
Analyse. Don’t just think that because it’s called Terminator it’s automatically perfect.
The numbers (if they only look at that) speak for themselves, unfortunately.
Dan, I don’t understand how you come to feel these writers are hating on James Cameron. Certainly if they did that they’d be called out in the spring with the release of T4, don’t you think?
I think they are trying to do a “new” kind of T-spin, like what was done (successfully) with BSG. This isn’t quite working as well, but I think it can given time (review opinion on potential of show).
You come off not only as critical of the writers, but you also accuse them of not being fans and somehow out to “get” the true, pure T-essence - as if that is something to be attacked!
Meanwhile, however, SOMETHING has grabbed you about what they’ve produced.
No, it’s not perfect. What is? “Wanted” wasn’t. Neither was “I Am Legend.”
We LIKE T:SCC and are not ashamed to admit it!
I had hopes for it to win the People’s Choice Award, but Heroes has a better track record of popularity; I think pop culture is purely based on numbers not substance (Heroes was just as hard to follow this season as OUR show - and they canned writers and producers bc of it), which makes it like an All-Star Game appearance: you get voted in this year for your accomplishments last year.
If/when the writers review all of this I think they may come to the same conclusions most fans already know - and it ain’t social commentary!
We’ve got to bad ass chicks that can kick just about anyother bad ass chick’s ass on any other show. Period. We just want to see them blow crap up and knock the hell out of things…
…sorry to break it down with such a fundabmental analysis, but the thought just ocurred to me…set your phasers on stun, call agent Mulder and may the force be with us; sometimes all you have to do is light the fuse!
Coach,
It was the FIRST season that got me going on the show. It started off a little shakey and then it really started to pick up and was intriguing. The narrations were pretty good and of substance and something to think about. We didn’t need them all the time, but in small doses they would have been perfect.
“The Demon Hand” was pretty darn good. It was mysterious and it hinted at great things from Cameron with what she did and what Sarah was talking about. It gave Cameron mystery and a glimpse of a specialness about her.
I teered up a bit during the park sequence in “What He Beheld” and I thought the police shootout with Johnny Cash’s “The Man Comes Around” was very well done, and quite artistic.
Was the show perfect? No! But it had me hooked at what it seemingly was becoming. I cared about Sarah, about Cameron, and about John.
I think I screamed NOO! just as loud as anyone when Cameron got blown up.
I couldn’t wait for Season 2 and was bummed that the writers’ strike threw a big monkey wrench in the works.
“Samson and Delilah”, even with some timing problems and the fact that Cameron’s chip could be so easily damaged when so many other Terminators have come through perfectly fine with even more done to them was pretty good. I even forgave them for Sarah coming out of nowhere with the truck to smash Cameron… and AGAIN I teered up when Cameron pleaded with John and John was so conflicted. But then I got to John’s statement that Cameron saves him. I was like where did THAT come from? It was never brought up before.
I also thought we were about to see great things from John Connor with him getting tougher and manning up to his responsibilities when he went into the bathroom to cut his hair.
Then things started to go haywire. Everything began to get hit ‘n’ miss.
When the family dissolved so did the show start to disintegrate and become muddied.
Blame the suits for meddling? You bet! But from the responses TheTurk (Zack) was giving to fan concerns AND some of the stuff mentioned on the podcasts… things started to go South for me.
You have to blame ALL parties involved, not just the suits. Should the writers be irritated for being pushed around? YES! But that doesn’t make up for the pacing and character problems that have been mentioned, stand alone stories or not.
If they can’t right the course of the ship, then I think we should look hard at asking for new writers and a fresh perspective.
That’s what NBC ended up doing and one can only hope that the changes they made will be beneficial.
Whatever is happening behind the scenes, it made for one heck of a mess.
I’ve said my $2.00 worth it seems. Like what I had to contribute or don’t, but SOMETHING fundamental has to get FIXED or you’ll have no third season.
Think on it.
There’s something very important that needs to be learned here. So far this has been about 200 back and forth posts between Dan and everybody else. While I’m not flat out saying “you’re wrong,” I do believe that Dan and some other people who share his viewpoints are flawed. I don’t know if everybody realizes this, but I know some do: John Connor is a COMPLEX character… he needs to be. Single-handedly redeeming the world? How would you adjust to that? You’d never feel pressue? You’d never think twice about killing someone even if it was in self-defense? You wouldn’t be a teenager when you were 16? Remember, he’s NOT Jesus Christ… who was divine and knew his mission in the world from the beginning. This was THROWN upon him… and he’s mortal. To quote Sarah from “Heavy Metal,” “If you die… they win.” There is no second coming for John Connor. If he blows it the first time, there goes the world. You’d never feel denial? I also agree with the person who said that if the show was only a constant rehashing of the films, it would get VERY old VERY fast. Why do we keep tuning in every week? To learn what we already know? That’s not why I tune in, I’ll tell you that. These characters can’t just be expected to STOP SKYNET! within a couple of episodes… it can’t wrap up like a storybook ending! It’s Terminator! Sure, the underlying theme of hope is always there, but hey, if the Sisyphus undertones weren’t there as well, it wouldn’t be the Terminator franchise anymore. And on bringing back the original cast: get over it. Of course it was something to be concerned about before the show began, but here we are more than halfway through season two and these actors have been these characters THEIR OWN. Lena’s Sarah Connor and Linda’s Sarah Connor are very different… but isn’t that better than them being THE SAME? I think all of the casting choices have been superb, especially who they cast for Kyle Reese. I can’t wait until we see what’s going on with him in “Good Wound.”
Again, I’m saying they HAVE been rehashing some of the things in T2 on this show. Sarah already had become crazed and quick to violence and John had helped her greatly… in T2.
Now she’s nuts again… with three dots? Three dots? How did she ever come in contact with three dots before and KNOW it meant something to do with Skynet? If this is a side effect of the suits forcing the writers to come up with the bloody wall then I blame the suits, but that doesn’t vindicate the writers either for something so out of the blue as three dots.
Did Sarah get “beamed up” and probed by Terminator aliens when she was a little girl and that’s how she started dreaming of three dots and knowing there was a connection?
That has to be the biggest jump in logic I’ve EVER seen, and I’ve seen some doozies on “Lost.”
The turtles I can forgive, again, because that dealt with symbolism and empathy for those in need and distress. But to a large audience it would sure seem bizarre to me.
Sarah’s dreams in Terminator 2 were never spiritual or prophetic. She was manifesting a loneliness for Kyle and the burdon of the knowledged passed on by him–the end of the world–and her inability to care for John as this child, this messiah like figure, was thrown at her when she wasn’t ready. There was real logic in and to her nightmares.
Terminator always was about learning to be BETTER than how you started out.
Uncle Bob understood it, so WHY CAN’T WE? Fundamentally anti-killing and anti-war.
What in that can’t people get? The robots, and explosions and gun fights, etc. wer not the sum total of James Cameron’s vision. It was hope and love triumphing. Humanity can save the day.
That’s why a Terminator gained a heart and understood what so many humans do not.
That’s where some of the contempt for James Cameron’s ideas are showing up on TSCC and were all over T3.
Dan - You are abusing this blog. If you don’t understand what I mean, I urge you to reflect on why I would say that.
I don’t have time to post a full reply right now, but let me just say this: please stop calling Terminator Uncle Bob! That wasn’t his character’s name in T2! That was just an alibi for when they met up with Enrique! I’ll be back later with a more in-depth reply to Dan’s latest rant.
I love this show, truly is the show of the decade. I hope Fox and the other creatives can keep this show fresh and inventive.
Anyone who thinks Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles is crazy I have some news for YOU!!! You have a horrible taste in T.V. shows!!!It is the best show ever and I can’t wait until season 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Logan,
There’s an old addage that says:
“Speak the truth [as you see it, anyway], then run like hell!”
My problem seems to be that I am too big of a James Cameron film fan, especially “Terminator 1&2″ and “Aliens,” so I tend to hang around until after the crowd has grabbed torches and pitchforks!
LOL!
Alright, so, Dan:
Sarah’s dreams: why aren’t they allowed to be symbolic? Just because we only saw her recurring nightmare in T2 doesn’t mean she isn’t allowed to develop new ones. In fact just the very fact that she is having new ones shows some kind of improvement. That same recurring nightmare is not the only one she has. Her mindset is expanding… which could cause her viewpoints to change, which in turn could result in renewal of her character’s sanity, which she so desperately needs.
I believe I speak for all of us at this blog when I say that if you want to keep posting here, it’s a free country. But at least don’t keep posting the same comments OVER and OVER and OVER again. I think for the most part we are ALL more than willing to open up our minds to new ideas and new perspectives on the franchise… but not EVERYBODY has to agree with EVERY thought that comes out of EVERYBODY’s mouth. What we’re doing is having a passionate discussion about a topic we love. I know you love the show, at least to some extent, as well, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. THINK about it… can’t somebody else ever be right about something? You do bring up some good points, such as John and Cameron should have more interaction; but on some issues, the majority of us just don’t agree with you on. ALL of the writers and creative staff have sung the praises of the people who engineered this enterprise. I don’t think there is ONE person involved with this production that has NEVER seen the films (at least 1 and 2), and I don’t think it’s right for you to make blanket statements like “they just don’t care.” If they didn’t care, face it, this blog wouldn’t exist. THINK about it. That’s all. THINK… then post. That should prevent any further tension on the blog. Because if this tension is not dissolved soon, pretty shortly everyone will stop coming here. We’re all Terminator fans at heart, so let’s rejoice in that and think POSITIVE about the future episodes that are forthcoming instead of already ASSUMING that they are not going to resolve anything. By the end of this season, I’m pretty sure we’re going to have ONE HELL of a cliffhanger to talk about.
Pat, if you actually knew me I’m not such a bad bloke, but I do get defensive about one of my favorite movie series. I have brought up some of the show’s, let’s say, “idiosyncrasies” on another forum and it generated some people to actually step back and look at where it might have lost its way. In fact, a good number of people seemed to agree in some form or another.
Perhaps we didn’t all agree on what we saw as flaws, but quite a few saw things that need to be fixed to GAIN the audience necessary to continue on.
However it did happened (writers, meddling suits, or a bit of both), something made the show lose quite a bit of its original audience. SOMETHING wasn’t sitting right with them.
I’m trying desperately to get people to explore what that could be. Then there can be some real POSITITIVE feedback on what could help.
One I keep bringing up, because I feel it affects the flow and the character development and the DEPTH of the show, is the over use of multiple running stories during each episode. By that very technique it lessens how far you can take the main story, the main crux of that episode.
You must remember that we have only a few minutes longer than a half hour to tell such a complex mythology.
Personally, I lose interest in the characters when most of the time is taken with weird tangents rather than getting into their minds and their lives. The characters shouldn’t be superficial or inconsistant from episode to episode.
Take for instance Sarah Connor. Sometimes she seems totally sane in one episode and then in the next she’s a basket case, and the next she’s pretty stable again. To me there is a disconnect somewhere in the writing.
That’s what is getting to me. I’m sure some of the questions might start to get resolved, though there isn’t a lot of time to really delve into Season 1’s hanging plots AND tackle all the things going on this season.
It’s backed things into a corner, especially with no way of knowing yet if Fox will give us another season or two.
I really want to see this show thrive. I always have, BUT it would be disingenuous to say everything is hunky dory with the plotting, the characters, etc. because it isn’t. Let’s not kid ourselves.
Just read some of the forums and you’ll see the frustration growing.
Dan - If I read your last post correctly, you are trying to provoke a discussion on the perceived flaws of the program. Please absolve yourself of that responsibility. It leads to too many redundant postings which lose their initial impact and are increasingly resented and ridiculed. I’m sure that is not what you intend.
So please dial it back. No more lyrics, no more prescriptive rants. It might be best to engage on what you appreciate and what you don’t understand in respectful terms.
Just as you point out a growing frustration with the direction of the show, there is a growing frustration with your postings.
Just read some of the forums and you’ll see the frustration growing.
I’m not saying you’re a bad guy. Like I said, you bring up a couple of good points, but come up with some new ones! It just sounds like a broken record after a while. The major thing that we seem to disagree on is show structure and character development. First of all, it’s a TV show and multiple storylines ALWAYS run in the same episode. If only one storyline ran throughout each episode, it’d get really dull really fast! Could you imagine a whole 42 minute episode with only Ellison and Weaver? Or only Sarah and John? I know I couldn’t. Also, Sarah’s transitions from episode to episode from sanity to near insanity and then back again amplify her characters’ constant change that is so necessary to her development as the Sarah Connor we know. You try always being sane when killer robots are trying to assassinate your son.
I like substance in a story, not bits ‘n’ pieces.
And usually on Lost, where there are TONS of characters, they stay FOCUSED on a certain story. They may shift gears to keep another story fresh in your mind, but only for a small fraction of the episode. It’s 90-95% on the main FOCUS for that episode, but even that small amount usually ties back to the main story STRONGLY.
TSCC problem is that it seems too fractured like its own characters. You can’t really delve deeply into the characters when they do that.
And no, if the story stayed on Cameron or Cameron and John or Ellison or Ellison and Weaver, etc. I would not get bored. You wouldn’t just have them sitting in a room going on about what color are the walls… you’d get into Ellison’s story, why he’s doing what he’s doing (even just a little bit to keep you interested) and have it tie into the goings on at Zera Corp. etc. etc.
The stories are too unfocused as to confuse the average viewer and are starting to fracture even the die hards.
You still have many plots dangling from Season 1 and half of Season 2. How will 9 episodes solve all that?
If they had a singular purpose or mission each season as Season 1 seemed to have then it would stay FOCUSED and not fly off on three dots and laundry lists on bloody walls, and other goofy things that are so far removed from Terminator-land that many are like WTF?
You can’t afford to lose any more viewers.
Just to show that I’m not alone in my feelings, I ran across this statement that also reflects what I’m trying to stress (though some may not like that I’m stressing these things):
“I share the views of those who say this is a great show. It is far-reaching, and has a brilliant premise. Apart from possible corporate interference, the risks to the show are the dumbing down of characters; John Connor’s in particular. The mistake is the long drawn-out teen angst content. This is NOT a teenie show. Adding the elements of a saop to it to make it more palatable might well be counter-productive. People have really come to despise JC as he is. In S1, he was growing. Many expected - myself included - that the development would continue. Then bingo - the bottom fell out. John turned into an unlikeable pisser - even allowing for his being a teen with pressures. It was just not believable, and the show suffered. In a situation like this, less would have been more.”
A-men, brother, a-men!
I think when people are upset at John’s character this season, they miss the general idea of a story arc with him. John can’t be right now the savior of mankind or else there’s no development with him.
The Terminator movies tried very hard to keep John “innocent,” in that, despite everything else going on around him, he never had to kill someone. Nor did he have to in Season 1. The Samson and Delilah episode changed that.
John is clearly having several episodes of severe post traumatic stress. That will naturally make him numb, reactive, and probably downright mean at times. He moves to Riley because she is some place where he doesn’t have to deal with that trauma.
People have written about the compassionate side of John being less evident this season since he has been so mean to Cameron and his mother. I think it’s just the opposite. Because John feels so deeply, he’s hurting so much now. If he wasn’t so compassionate, he could’ve brushed off killing Sarkisian more quickly.
If the writers had him immediately recovering, everyone on this board would complain about unrealistic that is, that no way John would already be back to his normal, season 1 self.
My bets are that John will continue to arc through the rest of this season and at the other end, we’ll see why he had to go this route.
This better not conflict with Battlestar!!!!!
“This better not conflict with Battlestar!!!!!”
I hadn’t thought of this Shail, thanks for bringing it up. BSG will air at 9 or 10 (PST) on SciFi, and T’SCC will go at 8. But this means Dollhouse will bump heads with whatever OTHER good scifi show the put in front of BSG. I hope it is not Ureka!
As for John, I think the writers have purposefully tried not to make JC THE “JC.” So they have written in all these “flaws” so we see him as confused and human.
Truth is, if someone was attacking me or my family I’d snap their neck in a heartbeat if given the chance, and wouldn’t give it a second thought.
Just cause killer robots are out to bet you and pose as humans and are bent on erradicating all of human in the near future doesn’t mean there are very bad people in present time. Some WILL try to kill you; some SHOULD die. Watch “24 Redemption” for details.
A monster can con in any form - even a virus.
I also think this show is trying to make a very big deal out of “thou shalt not kill” and to do so is very bad, for any reason. This came off okay (just that, not well executed however) by Sarah in T2 (she has to be a better shot than that - or at least hit her target with an RPG and be certain she got him (or a hand grenade…)
If they wanted to make a big stink about it, why not talk about the hundreds of thousands of professionally trained killers we have stationed in birthplace of civilization: Mesopetania? Does it matter that we have killed nearly 700,000 people in response to nearly 5,000 dying on 9/11? How does John and Sarah feel about that?
Or does it not matter anyway (which would be the LOGICAL) reponse - as virtually all of us in our modern world are gonna die on JDay - and only THEY know it!
I’ve seen kids be given a bullet and have to go shoot someone inorder to get a daily meal. There are horrors teans and kids are going through right now; no need for machines (or any other devil) to punish us, we’re doing a fine job ourselves.
What I would like to see is JC grow a pair in another manner. Maybe not (just) fighting, as his mother is prone to do: a reactionary approach. What if he was trying to really think and feel things through, to give humanity some semblance of what that word means AFTER the war with the machines is over. How can we rise about and not do injumane things to ourselves; how can we learn from the mistakes of the past?
Maybe he knows that this is a burden that he alone will have to bear, because his mother WILL be gone, lost in the heat of battle, a causalty of war, no longer a resource to him.
This line of thought would not disagree with the dweeb we saw in T3, or the “great commander” we hope for in T4. (Glad the killing of JC by a T is fake rumor, BTW)
It is very hard for soldiers to understand what PEACE is about, and how people can go about LIVING after the war is over. They think “it’s not my job.” They suppose someone else will handle it.
Maybe John believe he IS the one that will HAVE to handle it, if man is to progress beyond the brink of doom…
Why Friday night? Put everything back the way it was. This needs to be on Monday night as it has always been. Don’t the idiots know that a Friday night timeslot is like the kiss of death for any good show? I don’t know how many good shows have been cancelled due to having this timeslot.Good move Fox!
the biggest proplem I see with this show, not that it has many, is the whole Jesse, Riley story arc. Just about every tag board I have seen about this show the majority of the people say the same thing, these charactors really are not interesting. No one cares about them. Personnaly, when they have there screne time, thats when I decide to go and refresh my drink or w/e. I was kind of glad that they had Riley slice her wrist in the last episode, not nice to say and nothing agaist the actresses that play them, but they need to go. Someone said way up there ^^ that they were just throw to the viewers and just bits and peices of there backgrounds were shown, but nothing to make us care about them. The only thing I can hope for when it comes to these two is Cameron finally taking out Jesse.
I seen a few posts here and on other boards about Cameron and John “falling in love.” seriously, That would be like falling in love with an attractive toaster. Shes a machine. I would like to see her maybe start showing a bit more real human qualities, but I think that before they can start on that they have to address the fact that her CPU was damaged. I was thinking that the episodes following the season premier was getting to that by showing her “malfunction” here and there. They seemed to be showing her acting strange and then they kind of dropped the idea the last few. It was a good idea and left to many questions unanswered. If that could be addressed then they could continue her “growing” into something more then just a machine, but leave the “John and Cameron fall in love” out of it.
I keep reading that they are bringing back Kyle Reese, please don’t let that happen. Don’t kill his charactor or the whole show by doing this. If it is true then I hope they don’t make him a regular to the show and he is just passing by on his way to the proper time line he’s supposed to be going to. There are already way to many people to keep track of and to many different story lines going on at once for most new people to follow. Instead of bringing in new people, how about show more about Ellison and Weever.
Bring back Cromartie!!!! It was starting to look to me like he was showing signs of having independant thought that differed from Skynet and had me interested. It gave me the idea that he was more of a rogue then just a terminator doing what he was programmed to do. It was giving the idea that there could have a terminator civil war type of thing. It could help explain why John is able to reprogram them and send them back.
All in all this show is my favourite and I too hope that the Friday time slot don’t kill the show. It has to much potential to be killed off by a bad time slot.
The friday time slot is a ratings killer — any show slotted to a friday is typically headed for the chopping block, why not bump it back to sunday night, or foward to tuesday or wednesday — We understand the monday slot is taken by 24, but Friday never proves well for ratings — if the exec’s think this show will sustain even on that time slot - what they will get is more people recording it on their DVR to watch it later.
how do the terminators eat food i mean where does it go
how do terminators eat food where does it go
The show is really really good, I mean it has me glued. Love everything about it. I really like Cameron and I hope John will have patience with her if she goes bad.
On another note, we need to support this because it will be sad if this gets canned. It has a lot of potential and some tremendous acting. That kid from 90210 is a great actor.
What else, oh yeah. My bro likes the show but the drama between John, his mom and the ladies drives him nuts. I say bro, we need to see some character development as well.
Keep up the good work, I can’t wait for the next episode and Season 3.
WE HAVE TO STOP SKYNET
I question, Sarah and John’s thought of Cameron of “being just a machine….” in the end of T2, Arnold says, “I know now why you cry, but it is something I can never do.” Then in the closing scene Sarah has hope for us, “if a Terminator can learn the value human life, maybe we can too.” To me that sounds if she believes he was more than just a machine. Arnold is self aware, the entire last scene to me shows that even a model 101 can can understand emotion and become self aware (can’t self terminate and knows he could be the future if he were reverse engineered). So if Cameron is much more advanced model why couldn’t she be even more self aware.
John and Cameron love? Makes an issue for Kate in T3 and their future, what about Terminator Salvation? As for a love aspect for John and Cameron what about love that can never be, but instead a mutual deep respect and trust, and maybe more.
Just my 2 cents
I cant’ wait !!!
Please the new season NOW!!
greetings from Mexico
mmmmm girl robot. what could be better!
I agree with nyc2009# and Craig that there should be more character development, especially in Cameron. In season 2, we got a glimpse of what happens to Cameron when her CPU got fried and her objective changed from protecting John to terminating him.
One scene I found interesting in episode 1 of Season 2 was when Sarah had pinned down Cameron with the truck and told John to remove the chip from Cameron, John was hesitant to do it as Cameron said “I love you John. I’m fixed now”.
It would be interesting to see how their relationship developes. Just like everyone else on this post, I am a HUGH FAN of T:SCC and can’t wait till Feb 13th for episode 14.
I also would like to point out that I am really amazed by Brian Austin Green’s acting as Kyle Reese. He has really changed as an actor from his 90210 days.
Lena who plays Sarah, does an amazing job. Keep up the good work. Thomas Dekker is really good as John. And I have to say Summer Glau is just FANTASTIC as Cameron Philips/ Alison Young. She has the most BEAUTIFUL EYES in the world
Until next time, I’ll be back.
If u guys dont remember if u had the Terminator 3 DVD and watched the sgt william candy special ul remember the 3 dots are CRS symbol Cyber Research Systems.
The 3 dots are for CRS- Cyber Research Systems. It was shown in the sgt william candy special on the terminator 3 DVD
Season 2 is not as good as Season1. There are far too many script writers all doing their own thing, and little continuity episode wise. The introduction of Riley and Jesse serves no purpose at all. and are frankly of little interest charachter wise. If there is to be a 3rd season (and its a big if at the mo) The show has to get back on track, and focus on the principal charachters, Sarah, John and Cameron and their attempts to stop Skynet. The Scriptwriters for Season1 got it right. But too many cooks in season 2 are making the show bomb.
I agree that season 2 is not on par with season 1. The writers do need to focus a little more on John/Cameron/Sarah and stoping skynet. The first season was a thrill ride, it seemed skynet just just beyond their reach and in a few episodes they were successfully disabling skynet.
Now the story does seem to wander more. I hope Fox is willing to give this show the time it needs to get on track again. I really enjoy this show and look forward to seeing it reach its potential again. I’ve heard the ratings are poor and I’m sure if they do not improve the show will not be back for a third season.
In my opinion John’s character needs to take more of a leadership role and less of a putzy stupid teen (he is the future leader of the world!), Sarah needs to support him and enable him to become the man he must become, and Cameron - we’ll she’s kind of a grey area. She’s a machine sent back to protect John, but she has illuded to being much more than a simple protector.
I am looking forawrd to seeing what TSCC has in store for the rest of season 2 and am hoping for a season 3.
[...] The Gospel According to Doug Phillips: A Vision of Cultural and Economic Elitism
Cameron seems to have human traits at times, but her machine coldness always comes through in the end. I get the feeling that the one trait that does come through is jealousy. She is jealous of any relationship that John has with other females. I hope the Friday time slot does not kill this fascinating show.
Putting the show on the Friday lineup isn’t going to hurt any worse than putting it up against Chuck and Monday Night Football. I love this show, it has gotten a little off of the beaten path, but I have not seen an episode that I have disliked yet. It looks like Kyle Reese is coming back. I wonder how that works? I hope to see a lot more of John and Cameron unique and interesting relationship as the season rounds out. I hope FOX brings it back for another season. This is the only show I watch on this network.
Great show. Fox would be foolish to shut it down. There are plusses and minusses in all of the comments being made on every forum.
Me? I think the show is about Cameron. All I want her to do, is get into Derek’s face just a bit more. After all, she did save his life in the future, he falsely accused her of leading the T-888 to his safe house, and is constantly making smarmy comments. Eating a pancake, and ballet is not enough. She needs to “man up” to him and make him see the truth about what she really is.
On the other hand, Derek has seen the end of the world, and so just about anything he does, is justifiable. I wonder how he will react, when Cameron puts an end to his girlfriend, or why he puts up with some woman who ran from the war in the first place.
John is learning more than a lot of people think. Being stuck watching re-runs on my computer, awaiting the new season, I have watched and seen the transformation. Most important is what we learn from T3, which is that John is the only person who knows what is going on, what happened, and why, and that is what makes him the leader that he becomes. Just as is said at the end of the T3. “connor, who is in charge there?” and after hesitating, he finally accepts his destiny, and says “I am”
As the only person alive with knowledge of the events that lead to judgment day, he is a leader by default, on top of whatever Sarah manages to teach him.
One comment that I can’t help make is this. Sarah wants to stop judgment day. A noble cause. If she does, there is no defeat of skynet in 2027, and no reason for skynet to send Arnold back in T1, which also sends Kyle Reese back. Then Kyle does the dance with Sarah, and John is conceived. Seems to me that stopping judgment day, means John Connor never exists. Very hard to figure that scenario.
Looking forward to the new episodes.
OMG! im just so exited to see the new episodes!! i’ve always been, and always will be a fan of this show! SO FOX, DONT YOU DARE CANCEL IT!!! or i’ll have a full uprising.
but anyways, i love all you guys,
just try to keep up the good work <3
-karah
I think that taking a 60 day break is to long to make us wait mid season. Thanks FOX. I just can”t wait for the new episode, I cleared my schedual off and told everyone that I won’t be here lol. I am with karah in the uprising if this showgets cancelled, I don’t know how to do the uprising thing but I ‘m sure we can learn (haha, for anyone who takes things way to seriously, that is a joke.)
I am agreeing with others. The show needs to focus on something. Season 2 was somewhat wandering in the “plot”. Go with the man+machine interaction and stopping Skynet. The 3 dots thing I assume will lead toward this direction. Season one rocked as they always were on the heels of the coming chaos. Please answer the question..WTH did Cameron mean when she said, ‘I seen everything’, after going into the traffic system.
Planning is must for every purposes and project,yes i agreed with you.
The Honda motorbike manufacturing company have lot of business in previous year 2008.His motorbike is very strong and high speed.
Please don’t jump the shark this year.
Find some way to tie off the ‘little green men-aliens thingie’ you ended with and get back to having John grow up into the man he needs to be.
The race for Johns attention between Riley and Camron thing is good.
Sarah and Derek should become closer, not lovers but closer, like brother in arms. More trusting of each other, as people who actually save each others lives often do…
More of the sidebar of Catheriine and James too.
Both have become an important part of the show.
Some new Law Enforcement activity needs to happen too.
There is too much happening for this to stay completely under the radar of local law enforcement.
Some type of interaction with first responders needs to entwine the problems they face.
All in all though, I can’t wait for the nes season to start!
T:TSCC KICKS CAN!
Yeah the story needs to get a bit more focus, but I still tune in every week! Let’s have a great ride into the finale with lotsa Cameron!!
One of the most intriguing scenes regarding Cameron so far was in season 1 when she was spotted thru the open doorway by Derek dancing a ballet. No good show lasts forever, tho I am hopeful that this one has a few good seasons left. I would enjoy catching glimpses of John’s brilliance, which would make his stubborn, ignorant, know-it-all rebelliousness more palatable. Best episode so far this season was Cameron in the library - interesting how it showed both her machine side capabilities and her struggle to become more human. Those are always enjoyable, as when Cameron made her first “friend” when she “hung out” with the latina girl during season 1, learning how to slouch against the car….There are clearly a lot of nervous fans waiting to see how the series fares, both the writing, and the network’s business decisions….Have enjoyed this series, FOX - keep it up!
I want to see more of the future,i want to see big battles with the terminators.battles that skynet need to win but didn’t and tryed to send termnators back to change the course of the future. i want to see the hard ship of the future in all parts of the world from skynet .
I agree with erkil. We need to see more of the future which Skynet controls and see how John and his team stop them. Also, would be interesting to see how the relationship between John and Cameron develops in the future.
Until next time, I’ll be back
O M G, Finally it is about to be out
I waited this epi for so long
I got so addicted to this show
Lets see how that machine baby going to do in this epi
will he do damage or will he be a good guy
Well I think the third season is going to be better than season two. Three shows in and I find as good as the first. John seems to be manning up and seeing Cameron in a more human way.
I agree with Craig
Season 3 should be better than the already amazing season 2.
I hope FOX gives the green for season 3.
I always wonder, why is it that when other Terminators scan Cameron, there always get “UNKNOWN CYBORG”. Hmm, maybe she is different.