In this concluding half of Today is the Day we begin to say goodbye to John Baum as John Connor rights the wrongs of his recent passivity and forgoes his previous desire to just be normal. But what else was going on behind-the-scenes?
Today is the Day was not originally intended to be a two-parter. But once we shot the original episode, we realized there were still some things we needed and went back in the writers room to rebrake the story beats. Shortly after, Ash and Zack turned out the new pages, Josh concluded his revision, and we were back to shooting the rest — some for Part 1, some for Part 2. In order to avoid any production confusion, we temporarily dubbed this past week’s outing The Last Voyage of the Jimmy Carter, but eventually returned it to its correct title during the post production process. (Yes, that’s why FOX accidently leaked that title). Side fact: we had previously flirted with doing two-parter episodes a few times in the past (early in the room). Can you guess which episodes?
Jesse’s YMCA scenes were actually all shot inside the YMCA — in Glendale, California — back on February 9th (the week of our return to the air). That’s how quickly everything has been “turned around” as they say (edited, color corrected, scored, sound mixed) for the remaining few episodes.
For this episode, only one new role had to be cast (a first for us!) — that of the “lifeguard” that approaches Jesse at the YMCA. It was played by an actor named Bill Tangradi.
Though we didn’t tell the story of Jesse’s history with the reprogrammed machine captaining her sub until now, we did hint at the story all the way back in Alpine Fields. Jesse’s future/past and how it informed her “plan” to remove Cameron from young John Connor’s life was frequently discussed in the writers room, as early as August (before anything from the season even aired)! This character’s motives were discussed frequently as the season took its shape.
Casting Chad Coleman as Queeg was a cinch — not only are we big fans of The Wire, but Josh actually “accidently” met Chad outside of our offices when he was around, auditioning for another Warner Bros series a few months back. They even spoke briefly! When it came time to finding the right actor for the role, his name came up quickly…
Jim Lima and his visual FX crew really outdid themselves with this episode — specifically on the T-1001 on board the submarine. But could you tell that the establishing shots of the submarine were completely FX? No practical shots of a submarine in water were shot.
John and Derek’s first scene in the truck was not actually scripted to be in the car, it was written on a bench in the park. But when the city was hit with a freak rainstorm (let’s be honest, it doesn’t happen that frequently here), we were forced to think on our feet and we shifted the scene into the truck on the studio lot. Funny enough, since there was only one side of greenery (the other side is actually a WB building), we were forced to flip the truck around to shoot the other perspective.
Keep the behind-the-scenes info flowing Hadley! Many thanks for the great work here keeping us blogging along with you.
Maybe you guys could’ve called the last episode ‘Chromium Tide’ :^D
Flipping the truck for the scene between John & Derek? That’s great. Never would have guessed.
I wondered about Queeg on the floor after Jesse turned on him. It looked so real when she closed his eye. Head partially through a hole in the floor? It was a great look. Chad really was awesome as a Terminator.
Interesting to hear how much Jesse’s motives were discussed and for how long.
Thanks for all that.
ahah so i guess it’s kinda confirmed..the box was weaver…the only known t-1001 atm
I neglected to mention the T-1001 effects on the submarine. They were indeed awesome. It really looked good.
Haha, flipping the truck. That’s funny. Hey, whatever works right? Nobody noticed!
i just watched season 2 agian and now i see that Riley gives john lots of clues to save her from jesse and it shows there was a plan from the start of season 2 till now that is very cool does any one here think this too?
Well I think the scene would probably have worked better in the truck anyways. Chad was so good as Queeg. Keep on posting tidbits from the show, please.
What?! No toy submarines in a bathtub?!
What in the h-e-double hockey sticks is this world coming to?
It was a great episode, these 2 episodes may have saved the series (although I have loved it regardless and it didn’t effect me how I liked the show) That T-1001 saying ” no” was freaky.
I so hope this show is renewed. The numbers have slowly been creeping up. I guess we just have to keep watching and hoping.
Notice that no one seems to complain about direction or the technical side of the show. Always great work in these areas. Congrats. As for what episode was almost a two parter, I would have to say D&D in S1.
I loved Season 1 and so far Season 2 is even better. However, these past two episodes just really knocked it out of the park for me. Everybody –writers, cast and crew– really brought out their A-game.
My guess about the would-have-been two parter would be “Queen’s Gambit” and “Dungeons and Dragons”. The two fit together really well. You could have added “Demon Hand” as part 3.
I could tell the sub was FX - it just didn’t look real to me.
However, the terminator disabled on the floor did!
great episode!
I really enjoyed Chad Coleman as Queeg. Very inspired choice. I’m happy to say goodbye to John Baum. Long live John Connor!
Thank you for continuing to share all the little behind-the-scenes tidbits with us… we really appreciate them!! The posts on this blog have made me feel more connected to the show (as if watching and buying the discs wasn’t enough) …I’ll remember things like having to turn the truck around when I see that episode again later. You should put stuff like that in the bonus materials on the blu-ray for S2. We love details
Queeg with half his head blown off was uber creepy. It looked real! LOL
Y’all did a great job on these 2 episodes! And thanks for all the inside info, Hadley!
Thanks for the bts tidbits again Hadley! My favorite was the nod to T2 with the T-1001 shaking it’s finger ‘no’ - that always creeps me out!
Meanwhile, John Henry is playing Ellison like a fiddle. The more human characteristics John Henry takes on, the more dangerous he becomes. A machine expressing thoughts such as, “I have a question for God,” and “Does this make us friends?” is very ominous.
some good info here.
For this episode, only one new role had to be cast (a first for us!) — that of the “lifeguard” that approaches Jesse at the YMCA. It was played by an actor named Bill Tangradi……..many of us wondered what the relavance of this scene was LOL, maybe you will tell us? you thought it was important for some reason?
it did establish that jesse and riley met there and swam?
the sub fx [ external ] were very good, looked real. same for when queeg was shot, and the T1001.
when john and derek were in the truck I thought it was fake rain, but I guess it was real LOL
two-parter episodes_Can you guess which episodes?
2×13 and 14 or 2×14 and 15
2×09 and 10
I enjoyed this two-parter very much. In my opinion it is probably the best work in the sreies to date! I was so pleased that I decided to go online and list the elements that I believe thoughtful observers will most appreciate…
1. Laying a foundation for the future John’s embracing a ‘risky’ strategy which is heavily depending upon ‘turned’ terminators:
-He sees that T2’s Arnold was more expendable than Kyle and saving humanity means sacrificing ‘metal’ rather than ’skin’.
-Terminators are more dependable than people: Cameron is infinitely more trustworthy than Jesse. This is emphasized in the future when Queeg proves more loyal to John than Dietze.
2. John is definitely maturing into his future self:
-Given that future John is an expert tactician, we have evidence that he is more savvy than he seemed i(n that he wasn’t fooled by Riley’s cover story and that he wasn’t deceived into blaming Cameron for Riley’s death).
3. The characters are beginning to deal more openly with the implications (or ‘complications’ as Derek put it) of divergent timelines. (This is something that is certainly difficult to explore without losing some viewers interest, but probably needed greater acknowledgment given things like the Cameron’s acknowledging a ‘pushback’ of Judgment Day and the Fischer storyline):
- Derek asking Jesse when her J-Day is and saying that, “You’re not my Jesse.”
- In the truck: “Your future?” (to John) “No, your future.” (to Derek’)
It is interesting to read about how long ago you started thinking about the whole Jesse storyline (though she probably wasn’t called Jesse back then). though there has been some negative feeling about Riley/Jesse, I think in the end it worked out, very good conclusions to these characters. And it’s probably not completely finished yet! It just took a bit too long maybe before things really stepped up in that storyline.
Queeg was absolutely great, I love reprogrammed terminators. I was really a little sad the way he was killed en fell down on the floor, creepy effect btw. Looked very real, like half a face. And Jesse closing his eye made me sympathetic towards her, though I still think she should have followed his orders.
I hope we will learn if the liquid in the box was actually Weaver.
4. This is my favorite (but most conjectural) part. We are given a plausible explanation for Weaver’s somewhat anomalous behavior. Her agenda seems divergent from that of Skynet, but she definitely isn’t working for the resistance. Why would this be?
-If future John managed to steal or intercept a T-1000 or T-1001 before its programming were complete, then convincing it to work for the resistance would be a coup in that it could serve as a double agent within Skynet. Presumably he had a plan to keep it confined at Serrano and control its exposure to humans.
-When it was unexpectedly unfrozen aboard the Carter and had a chance to observe the erratic nature of human behavior, it decided it could not trust the resistance, but would go rogue instead.
-If Weaver is the Carter ‘package’, then this could explain her obsession with human psychology and mores. John Henry may be an attempt to combine the dependability of machine programming with the (often advantageous) unpredictability of human thought.
I expected T-1001 to form to Weaver
Anyway, that shaking finger made me applaud. I did not like it escaping as snake, I expected more like sliding puddle of metal or something. It should be also a ball in the water, not a snake. Ball form would be more efficient for T-1001 in the water.
I am worried that we do not see old John Connor. I expected Jessy meet him and be told that she screwed up their chanced to win faster. I wonder why there is no older version of John Conner is series?
Finally: a question and a plea for those making TSCCW
1. I often find music I like on FOX or FX shows, and I have been trying to figure out what was playing in the background during the Derek-Jesse confrontation in the parking structure- but it is too sof for me to make it out. Can anyone fill me in?
2. I know that the shows future us uncertain, and that may mean that some storylines are left unfinished. If it is possible, I think that what fans would find most satisfying as a conclusion is more material about Allison Young and Cameron’s origin.
Ow, and Queed was great
That’s for sure! More terminators on the show, please! 
Btw, where do terminators get names? We know how Cromartie got his name in the script but why was he called Cromartie in the terminator universe? There should be a reason for the name. Machines do not act without a reason.
The exterior sub shots didn’t fool me, but that’s okay. Underwater CGI is tough to do, let alone on a tv budget.
thanks for the info about filming inside the truck.
That explains (sorta) how the timeline seemed off or that the editing had been messed up. Because with Derek and John in the truck talking and going nowhere and then the scene with the two of them at Jesse’s hotel, you get the impression later that they were outside Jesse’s hotel room the whole time.
I think it’s great they found a sensible reason to get SJ into a bathing costume - she’s the awesome! It hinted at a softer side of the relationship between Riley and her, that was very necessary. And the pool water nicely complemented the sub scenes.
I’d have tweaked the dialogue re John and Jesse re when John twigged Riley was a ringer, that’s the only mis-step I noted (I think I see where they were going with it, I just don’t think it quite worked out on screen).
These two episodes were amazing. I loved the payoff of final scene when John broke down.
Talking of “D&D” we still need to find out what the rubber-Terminator did with Derek in the basement with the piano music.
@Everybody, FWIW…
My theory of the basement in “Dungeons and Dragons” is that the Terminators are extracting information (whilst Derek is in a coma / dreaming state) so’s they can make Cameron-style infiltration units. “Alison From Palmdale” suggested a much deeper level of modeling of a human personality than would be expected from a generalised case.
It could mean that, for instance, a Derek or Billy Wisher Cameron-class Terminator could pop up. It could certainly mean the Weaverbot (and Cameron) may have considerably more information than they currently reveal.
However, knowledge of a future scenario is of limited value when you’re back in the past because, “There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.”
It ties together “D&D” and “AFP” and explains how/why Cameron has the personality of Alison “inside her.” I like it.
Just rewatched it..I’m starting to doubt Derek killed Jesse..”JOHN CONNOR let her go”. That whole convo he was having with John was about John leading..and it sounded like Derek finally respected present John’s authority. He is now John Connor and he is Derek’s leader. So with an order to let Jesse go..I think perhaps he did.
To John Pate: “Talking of “D&D” we still need to find out what the rubber-Terminator did with Derek in the basement with the piano music.”
The “rubber” terminator only delivered him to the basement. The music was the same as the music Cameron was dancing to when Derek saw her and started breaking down. I believe that one of the reasons he hates Cameron so much is that before she was reprogrammed, she was the one doing the interogations in the basement. That’s why as soon as he saw her in the tunnels he freaked.
Dmitry:
The name Cromartie was taken from a football player in the states. I guess one of the writers liked the name or he was a favorite player.
The name Queeg comes from the classic film The Caine Mutiny where Humphrey Bogart played an insane Navy Captain on board the U.S.S. Caine. It is a great film.
it looks the same rubber-terminator on the oil rig and d and d anyone think its the same one too .?
Two of the best episodes ever. I really hope there is a third season. Finally ,John Connor steps up ,and becomes a leader.
Wired Magazine’s take on “Terminator: Salvation”…
T4: Please Don’t Suck
Full disclosure: We’re on the fence about “Terminator: Salvation”—the trailers look great, but McG as director? Really? Herewith, a few reasons to be hopeful … and to be afraid, very afraid…
Cast:
Pro– Christian Bale is a rare breed: an A-list actor with total nerd cred. “The Dark Knight.” “The Prestige.” “Equilibrium.” Gun kata, baby!
Con– Bale almost totally terminated T4’s distracting director of photography.
Script:
Pro– Screen-writer Jonathan Nolan (Christopher’s brother) of “The Dark Knight,” “The Prestige,” and “Memento” fame pitched in on the script.
Con– So did TV scribe Shawn Ryan of “Nash Bridges” and “My Two Dads.”
F/X:
Pro– Industrial Light & Magic, the f/x house behind the butt-kicking bots in “Transformers.”
Con– ILM also did “Poseidon” and “The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift”—even the best CG can’t save a bad movie.
Director:
Pro– In “Charlie’s Angels: Full Throttle,” Joseph “McG” McGinty Nichol showed a facility with lively musical numbers featuring Cameron Diaz’s rear end.
Con– Wait, T4 doesn’t have that?
———
I agree.
Dan… Please, please, please, please… I repeat what someone else already told you on this blog: Use the wiki for subjects not related directly to the producer’s blog post…
Why not post your last post on T4 in a wiki thread like this one??? :
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread/1503236/I%27m+sorry%2C+but+T4+will+suck.
THANKS!
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread/2606467/Wired+Magazine%27s+take+on+T4
There! Look what you made me do! Are you happy now??!! LOL!
Thanks!
I think that in D&D, the house where Derek was held is future John and Cameron’s safe house. It is John’s secret base (secret from both the resistance and Skynet) where captured Terminators are brought to be reprogamed and where humans are evaluated as potential agents to be sent into the past.
JC can’t send just anyone back, he has to be reasonably sure that they can function under years of stress, isolation, loneliness, culture shock and still be counted on to carry out their assigned missions. Candidates are put through something like the E&R courses they put special forces troops through. Cameron probably runs the evaluation so water boarding is the least of a candidate’s worries. Derek & Co were brought to the house on John’s orders. The house was empty when they recovered, becasue John had taken the Terminators away to the assault on the Skynet TDE complex.
Cameron also runs the team that grabs Terminators and brings them in for reprograming. Remember there was a Terminator in the back of the truck with Derek and his patrol.
Snake. If I can correct you without disagreeing with you, Queeg comes from the 1951 novel Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk. The Novel won the Pulitzer prize and spawned the excellent movie you mentioned and a succesful stage play called The Caine Mutiny Court-Martial that covered only the trial.
Snake,
Queeg on “The Caine Mutiny” is also taken from Herman Melville’s “Moby Dick.”
More specifically, Queequeg.
Also, it was Agent Scully’s dog’s name on “The X-Files.”
Speaking on the topic of character fates for a moment, there is an interesting blog that discusses potential outcomes for Cameron. Being the “glass half full” kind of person when it comes to Cam, here is what caught my eye in that entry:
“What if, with all other future threats removed, Cameron chooses to be all that she can be? After all, on the base of the Statue of Liberty it reads: ‘Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free; the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!’”
Going with the more hopeful aspects of that blog…
John can be with Cameron and she with him because… he has to live his life off the grid anyway whatever the outcome. He is a criminal, he is a thief, and maybe even a murderer in the eyes of “the law.”
He still needs protection…Cam and he can always change identities as they move around. They are born to be drifters.
Think if it as David “Bruce” Banner from the classic TV show “The Incredible Hulk” only with a loving companion on his lonely journeys… until the end.
He is alone, traveling along on that dark stretch of highway no longer. Cameron is also alone no longer.
Remember, the fight for the Future never stops… no matter what.
Hope dwells within.
So, Dan…
How many futures and pasts are there? If Skynet is capable of sending Terminators to a particular past of Sarah Conner’s, and John Connor is able to offset their efforts with his own Terminator to that same past; how many times can each side do that? If it is limitless, then not only is the future not set, the future is NEVER set. Neither side can EVER win?
That’s right Seneca, The number of pasts and futures is infinite since people can also time shift from any other temporal plane that has time displacement equipment.
I wrote A Beginner’s Guide to Time Travel that might help some of the time-travel questions, but not all. I think I need to write an addendum to that.
Thank God that John Baum is dead. I loved the scene with John Connor and Jesse from start to finish. I will fight with everything I got to get a third season and really see John Connor taking his rightful place as a leader. I guess Riely had to die for John to finally open his eyes that his destiny is real. He better tighten up to win this war cuz no matter what they do J-day is gonna happen. Great FX guys you never let us down. My guess for the two parter would be the last two episodes of season one.
Why wouldn’t the finger wagging indicate the TK was Robert Patrick’s?
I think when Derek said, “John Connor let her go” he was telling John that whatever happened, it wasn’t on him.
According to the ‘many worlds’ theory you never change the future, you only change which of the many possible futures you are going to live in.
Two things:
1. I agree the underwater sub scene did not fool me into thinking it was a real underwater shot, BUT it did look damn good on my 120″ 1080p projection screen, considering. Without a -really- expensive underwater rig like they used for filming Planet Earth, I suspect your CG looked a lot better than a camera would have.
2. Regarding the absence of Future John in this series: while the idea that JC is dead is certainly plausible, I offer an unrelated alternative: we Terminator fans are a picky bunch. It was hard enough for the writers/producers to create screen time for Kyle Reese without setting people off. I would not want the responsibility of casting (or playing, for that matter) Future John Connor. Especially on a non-Hollywood budget. Viewers would make a lot of unintended assumptions about the character if they saw him with their eyes instead of going on faith, not unlike many of the resistance fighters. I applaud the TSCC creators for not imposing an impression of Future JC on us without reason.
@Seneca: The future is malleable… the past, not so much.
What I said in my last post above was something that James Cameron talked about. You might have stopped JD, but then again… you might not have.
Always be vigilant. If it isn’t coming from a machine threat… it could come from a human threat. Always be prepared. Always learn and grow and evolve and your future just may be a good one.
It’s a lesson to us.
That’s, again, one big reason why Cameron is so vital alive rather than dead.
What did John gain by letting Arnie die? Nothing. He was left alone (since his mom seems so ill equipped to shape him, mold him since she has her own issues to deal with).
OK, especially for the Jameron fans, here’s my take on what’s going on with Cameron:
Cameron is fighting her Terminator programming which, paradoxically makes her less human-like in her behavior. She was programmed with Alison Young’s memories and personality and can perfectly imitate a young girl (see the Pilot episode). However, to keep the Terminator killbot programming under control Cameron must exercise constant self-rewiring to suppress the Terminator killcrazy. We’ve seen, thanks to Cromartie, that the T888 combat chassis without the head can act autonomously to some extent for self-repair purposes. It must, therefore, either have some kind of wireless connection with it’s head/chip or, more usefully, have some autonomous ability of action itself. Cameron’s glitchy hand may be an indication of processing activity within the chassis (Cameron’s basic instincts?) and outside the CPU. Cameron actually has to suppress the human-like programming which was imposed as part of her Terminator nature to rewire her neural net to keep herself under her own autonomous control. This has been exacerbated by her chip damage - maybe chip self-repair may put her back into killbot mode if she doesn’t keep a lid on it, so she has to fight even harder against her Terminator programming modes which requires her, paradoxically enough, to suppress her Alison Young programming as a part of that.
So, ultimately, Cameron’s chip rewiring efforts will either fail and switch back to killbot or Cameron will become her own self and not Terminator… but not human either. Something uniquely Cameron.
I’m very glad we’re FINALLY losing John Baum and getting John Connor. I just hope it’s not too late for the series.
Does anyone have any good news if we will see a season 3 on any network??
[SPOILER ALERT]
[CRAZY THEORY ALERT]
I think in the Future, John is already dead, and Cameron is leading the human resistance. But she is keeping all the humans in the blind. Because we’ve never seen Future John Connor.
And that’s why when Jesse asks Cameron to give the T-1001’s message to John personally, Cameron simply says, “Telling me is the same as telling John.”
And that’s why Cameron came to the past. She misses John. And want to be near him, but he’s already dead in the future.
If my theory is correct, I think it would be pretty cool. I like the notion that Future John somehow bequeathed his leadership role to Cameron before he dies during the Future War.
We’ve seen, thanks to Cromartie, that the T888 combat chassis without the head can act autonomously to some extent for self-repair purposes.
To the extent that it laid in a junkyard 8 years waiting for the head to come though time.
I think in the Future, John is already dead, and Cameron is leading the human resistance. But she is keeping all the humans in the blind. Because we’ve never seen Future John Connor.
Cameron came to Derek and told him ‘John wants to see you.’ Presumably, Derek talked to John about it before he came back. Oh, wait, that was before Derek changed the future.
Check out my “Terminator - Space Camp” mashup! Thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gy8BWU0AcI
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Hey is anyone knows if their is going to be a third season?
please answer me!!!
cand incepe din nou serialul?????????????????????????????????