Note: Many moons ago writer Natalie Chaidez chimed in with her breakdown of the Badass Writer Chicks of Sarah Connor. Well, here’s her long-ago promised take on the men of the writer staff now ready for your reading pleasure…
Well guess who got their tighty-whities in a bunch because I didn’t blog about them? The boy writers of SCC, who, in the interest of equal time for all candidates, will now get a few choice Chaidez comments about them.
Friedman. Genius screenwriter dabbling in one-hour drama and making all us seasoned TV pros look like amateurs in the process. Right now he’s rocking this circa 1976 Coppola shag, which he keeps threatening to cut but secretly I think he’s quite fond of. Josh is an awesome boss, and honestly the worst thing I can think of to say about him is that he, like every showrunner I’ve ever worked for, has developed some odd dietary quirks since his series began. For instance, he no longer eats Pop Tarts for breakfast, which in hindsight I suppose wasn’t the healthiest start to an exec producer’s day.
John Wirth, or “J Dub” as he is affectionately known here at SCC, is our other commander-in-chief. Wirth is the O.G. of the staff, and was brought on by the studio and network to teach Freidman the ropes of running a TV show, with his 800 years of production experience. In addition to his mad writing, on-set and editing skillz, he’s a raconteur extraordinaire. The man is a born story-teller. The staff’s favorite tale involves Don Johnson, two strippers in nurse get-ups and a ‘titty-whacking”. Need I say more?
Supervising Producer John Enbom is a worthless traitor who abandoned us for the petty task of running his own TV show. It’s a huge loss as he was both the classiest and funniest writer among us. His last episode (Alpine Fields) married a Cheever-esque critique of repression in WASP culture with an awesome killer robot plot. Which, in a nutshell, just about sums up Mr. Enbom himself.
Writing team/producers Ashley Miller and Zack Stentz are the fan-boy whiz kids every great sci-fi show needs. Ashley used to be a computer programmer, working for the military, which basically means he was building SkyNet. Zack can recite by memory the plot of every Star Trek episode, if you give him the title, and has a degree from Stanford in Soviet Cinema. They play Dungeons and Dragons every month, and Ashley actually demanded Comic-Con as a religious holiday. Again– need I say more?
Our SCC “new media” writer is Mr. Hadley Klein. If you took about a dozen cans of Red Bull, stirred in a couple double espressos and topped it off with a hit of crack, you just might have half the energy this kid has. Hadley is a lanky bundle of charisma, charm and hustle, poured into the world’s tightest pair of skinny jeans. It behooves me to only say kind things about him, as it’s quite clear that he will soon be all of our bosses.
Last but not least are our two staff writers, Ian Goldberg and Dan Thomsen. Ian wrote the brilliant season one finale, What He Beheld. Ian, like Friedman, is a Johnny Cash afficiando. He looks like a young, cuter version of the Clash’s Joe Strummer. Dan, on the other hand, looks like that shaggily hot blonde actor Sienna Miller was dating for a minute. He gets this thousand yard stare sometimes in the writers’ room, as if mulling over some deep, dark personal tragedy, which usually turns out to be just a lame plot point we pitched. He wrote the season one episode, Vick’s Chip, which was my fav because it implied Mr. and Mrs. Vick were having… yes… Terminator sex. The annoying thing about both these guys is that they’re so damn young and so talented.
Which, minus the damn young part, basically is how I feel about all the SCC guys.
writers are interesting.
Good stuff, hope they are all still together for Season 3. Which of course we will get right…
Sounds like a fantastic staff of writers. Thanks for all the fun descriptions.
Funny description of Hadley. He’s been so patient with us here, and we got pretty darn rowdy sometimes.
And as if you guys didn’t know, we love this blog and everything you’ve shared with us here.
Ashley and Zack seem very cool.
Good work guys. Here’s for Season 3!
Fun read. All terrific writers and I hope they’ll be back for season 3 with all the knowledge from season 2! Cheers guys..
Cool~ Nice to know more about the brilliant (and quirky) minds behind an awesome show. Though some pictures to go with it would be nice~ (Not just so we can stalk you guys…j/k). Thanks for all the hard work everyone. =)
Lol Mr. Hadley is sporting the euro jeans… touche!
If FOX had more “new media” people like Hadley, we wouldn’y be talking about possible cancellations here. Stupid fossils.
LOL that was great to read.
I hope to see all of you back for season 3.
TSCC rocks!!!
I wish we could get some pictures of the behind the scenes crew so we can kind of put names to faces. That would help.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for posting about the writer dudes. I’m a big fan of your episodes, Natalie. I look forward to seeing more of your material.
Hadley, thanks for keeping us fans posted. Look forward to seeing more of your video blogs (especially with Lena in them) and The Sophisticates.
To all the cast, crew, writers and producers - THANK YOU for entertaining me week after week!!! You all are superb!! I wish you all the best!!!
I must say that I really appreciate Zack Stentz. He has been so interactive with fans. I once had some comments (okay, criticisms) to which Zack directly responded. He made me aware that you guys are really listening to the fans.
As a sturdy Golden Bear myself, it’s a bit disappointing to learn that he attended “Stanfurd”. Oh well, we can’t all be perfect, right?
Now I really want to hear Mr J Dub’s story about Don Jonhson and the two strippers…
Logan, thank you for the kind words, but Natalie gave me a promotion. I actually went to UC Santa Cruz, the fine school that gave America such TV writers as Marti Noxon (Buffy), Brannon Braga (Star Trek: TNG), and Jaime Paglia (Eureka). I had neither the grades nor the family money to attend Stanford.
Thanks for the post and keeping us fans informed.
Haha, awesome! Writers are always so weird =P
@Mason
Look deep into your panties as your pulling them back up to find your pile of ‘truth’, and wait in line for Terminator Salvation. If you can’t wait, go and rent Season 1 of the A-Team or the Dukes of Hazzard. They might keep your attention for more than 30 seconds(lots of car chases and explosions). Truth is - the finale was over your head.
BTW folks, I hate to grant toolfest(above) his wish, but:
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/scoop-fox-set-t.html?cnn=yes
The time has come, folks - to put up or shut up. NO FATE. Realize the true meaning of that simple statement?
I will quote this at least;”The one bright spot? Despite horrific ratings, Fox isn’t ready to declare SCC dead and buried — at least not officially. “No decision has been made yet,” insists a network rep. “We will be announcing our fall schedule on May 18.” ”
Ausiello may think it means it aint coming back. I find it more likely, that they’re gonna see how well T4 does at the box office.
I have enjoyed every minute of this wonderful show, thank you guys for your intelligent writing, i didnot expect such a show in tv.thank you from istanbul
Hadley must be a recluse. Google images only has a couple decent pictures of him. No doubt future-Hadley will be plastered all over the net.
Just to say if you want to make the Terminator website open in a tab (to increase the hits on the site as well as staying up to date) at the same time as say Google, you can do this Firefox at least by using | to separate website under the options tab, so for example mine now says:
http://www.google.com | http://www.fox.com/terminator/
As for Mason, while everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have to question your motivations for spending so much time on this blog slagging off the show, you certainly seem to be protesting too much. You’re not someone’s jilted ex are you? I’d like to hear from you suggestions as to which shows are / have been better - unless you can come up with a large number of them, there’s no point in cancelling this one.
Personally, only Entourage, Futurama and the West Wing come even close for me, but I’d sacrifice them all on the Terminator:SCC altar.
I take it that initial Mmmmhh is because there’s something lodged in your otherwise useless mouth. The only thing bitter seems to be projected along with your diarrhea of the mouth.
Ha! RCN says: Non vigorous
as in Mason’s sole form of self-pleasure: trolling the forums
The final could have been better, and I cry thinking about Cameron like that.
Testing, why aren’t my comments getting through?
@wolfie
lulz
This is so typical. Everyone that doesn’t agree with your FANatical opinions MUST BE A TROLL!1111!
Well guess again, I’m just somebody that enjoys well written TV and is a fan of the original two terminator movies. I really wanted to like this show but the terrible writing and art direction made that impossible. I’m glad that Ausellio announced that this terror has been cancelled for good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ZmUKBgwqg&feature=related
The writing on this show has been atrocious. Besides that the cinematographer is in dire need of a well placed slap in the face.
You gaise have all been caught up in Friedman’s SOAP OPERA #@$^#$^^ AND CLIFFHANGER C#@B! After weeks of starvation you #%&& are ready to &%&ing praise everything that features just the slightest hint of action. Truth is though, the finale was #%&ing horrible. I might elaborate further later in time but you all know that the last episode of this $^#$fest was terrible. Look DEEP into your souls and you will find the truth….. this shit deserves to be cancelled.
The only saving grace was Glau’s and Dilahunt’s performances. The rest was worse than sub par.
Meh, Ausiello. Never an honest Terminator spoiler out of him and *now* he has something to say.
One thing that puzzles me is the wait, though. If they’re gonna cancel the show, why hold off the announcement until three days before Salvation opens? It would hardly come across as a vote of confidence for the franchise.
Thanks for telling us about the boys, Natalie. Much appreciated!
@Mason
I can take the disillusion when you present it like you just did, I can’t disagree with “it’s craptastic”. That doesn’t tell me anything. Sorry you didn’t like the show. I did. FWIW; with the budgetaty constraints that a network SciFi production has, I think it turned out better than could be expected.
RCN says: voted Manpower
YES - WE - CAN beeotches! Save this fraktastic show!
If Ausiello is correct, then it’s up to WB to find a new home for the show. That will only happen if DVD sales are fantastic.
So buy DVDs for yourself and as gifts for any friend or family member you think might enjoy the show.
You can subscribe to the RSS feed for this blog through a blogreader. I use Bloglines. I get notice of all the new posts.
Zack, I hope Josh asks you & some of the other writers to do some commentaries on the DVD about your episodes! Last season we had Ian talking with Josh & Summer about “What He Beheld”. It was great. Fun to hear from writers and directors, as well as the cast.
Download the show via Amazon as well.
@ Zack…Star Trek fan hmmm. Cool.
Any kind of Trek or a specific part in the in general? I was always more into STTNG. 
Hy guyz, i have a proposal.
As for the polls we partecipated, i propose that everytime one of use writes down and sends letter to WB and Fox, he/she could report here the sending !
I i think where we were in the second part of 2nd season…lost between deserts and far from action…final episodes have turned out everything. Amazing.
Congratulations to the writers ! You guys has found your way !
Now my will to start Cameron’s research and know Allison’s is stronger than ever !!
FFOOX and WARNER BBROOOSS !!!!
For the Trekkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=WyfhzqhJNbg&sdig=1
The sad thing about Hadley’s post is that it reads like the first chapter of a long drawn out obituary.
FOX: askfox@fox.com
Warner Bros: Scott.Rowe@Warnerbros.com
keep emailing guys, we can win this..
alpine fields was was the only one so-so episode.Just boring. The rest is awesome
@wolfie
Yes, it could always be worse. I ‘m not disagreeing with that. But my main gripe with this show is the writing and cinematography/art direction. Friedman has admitted in interviews that he never really cared about the terminator franchise… and it shows. All he seems to care about are his character studies. He’s pushing all his health related angst into this series and at the same time tries to create something artistically valuable. The huge problem with that is that he’s just not talented enough to pull it off.
There are just too many inconsistencies with this show. Just because something leaves a lot of stuff open to interpretation does not automatically mean that it’s DEEP. Besides that the dialogue is often just horrible
Good action scenes alone could not redeem this show but they would be a start. Sadly though, the action scenes this show features are among the worst ever. Just take the prison bail out. It just makes no sense at all. So Cam doesn’t want to kill, innocent prison guards, I get that. But it would’ve been nice to have seen at least a short scene between Cam and John were this is discussed because Cam didn’t seem to have a problem with killing previously…. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg ;_;
One would think that avoiding taking damage would be in the interest of Cam but instead she seems to play “catch the bullet”. This show would have greatly profited from some shot up kneecaps. Hell, Cam could’ve even loaded her shotgun with rubber pellets and could have just blasted away at the prison guards. But ideas like this aren’t cared about with this show… that what made the movies great is simply sidelined for what Friedman deems to be important.
It’s no surprise to me that the ratings for this show are in the cellar. It #$^&s all over what made the movies great. It only appeals to, sorry for this, dumb people that want to feel smart. But guess what, trying to explain plot holes and blanks does not make you smart. It just makes you a blind fan in denial.
hehe, fun to read.
I want to give a big hug to the whole writing team for all the fantastic episodes you’ve brought us this season. Thanks!
I hope you all will be back for a third season!
@Mason
Seriously, I love it when people get so butt hurt about shows not going the same direction that their fan fiction that they wrote in their mom’s basement does. Honestly, there were a lot of people that liked the movies and the tv shows. They were different mediums, told in different ways. I bet you hated the LOTR movies because they took out Tom Bombadil. Honestly, settle down, and either enjoy it or not for what it is.
Hey Natalie, thanks for coming by and giving a description of the guys on SCC - lol!
Hadley, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting you, and your butt looks great in skinny jeans!
So who drinks more Red Bull, you or Thomas?
Zack, hello from another UCSC alum! Wow, I didn’t know my former university had produced a bunch of writers - coolness!
@Mason
Okay. I agree with some of the issues with detail you have in the production. If they got a dedicated continuity expert and fired the art director - would you sign on for a third season?
BTW - good idea with the rubber bullets!
One would think that avoiding taking damage would be in the interest of Cam but instead she seems to play “catch the bullet”.
the same thing happened in the first 3 movies so they think fans like that.
I too think that the T’s should learn to avoid taking hits when possible
thanks for the info natalie
I really love this place and appreciate the work that Hadley does to keep it going.
I mean it, I doubt any other show has such an active blog being updated so often, even now when TSCC is temporarily (ow yeah) over.
The writers, you did an excellent job with s1 and most of s2.
Im sure that with all the feedback from the viewers you know what went wrong in mid s2 and what was so great about the s2 ending.
So keep up the good work, we have faith in you!
Greeting from Poland, you have fans here too!
@jared
Bwaaahahahaha,… yeah right.
There’s no fan fiction nor @$%%?? hurtan at my end. And FYI there weren’t THAT many people that enjoyed the TV show, cause otherwise it wouldn’t be facing cancellation ;D
Sure, a TV show is a different medium than a movie but that doesn’t mean that this show couldn’t have been a thousandfold better
And yes, you mind readan #$%^^?? ,you, I did despise the LOTR movies. The reasons for that are too plentifull to lay out here though but let me just say this,… the movies didn’t do the books justice, which I’ve read years ago as a teenager.
the net is going crazy with story’s about there not being a season3 has any seen this and is as mad and freaked out as me i want season 3 bad love this too much its killing me
@Wolfie
Hell Yeah, I want a third season alright
But a new art direction/cinematographer alone wouldn’t be enough for me to get on board. I’d like fore Friedman to either be fired or to be kept at a very tight leash… which would mean: No more producing [leave that to the pros], sharing the seat as main writer with someone that knows how to write drama, action and dialogue.
The thing with Friedman is, he has a lot of ideas. His ideas are very hit & miss. For every great thing he comes up with there are two things that are terrible. A quick look at his track record confirms that. He just really needs a helping hand if he is to continue.
AND he has got to lay off of the Sarah Connor character! Except for a few bitter housewives, NOBODY IS INTERESTED! There is much more intrigue with the characters of Cameron, Weaver and John Connor. I also don’t think that Lena Heady is able to realize all her potential as an actress because she has to maintain the american accent :
In simple terms,… GIVE MORE SCREEN TIME TO SUMMER GALU AND DILAHUNT… those two are the best actors on the show yet they get snubbed every episode. And have Weaver morph into another person/actor! Shirely Manson is just horrible and I’m sure that many male viewers switch the channel if she gets close ups.
I really liked this insight into the writers, they seem a little crazy, but its a good crazy. They are what make this show so great, the story. But all the credit should not go to them. (might give them a big head) , the actors do an amazing job telling the story and the crew behind the scenes brings it all together.
@Mason….I know we got free speech and everything but damn, if you hate the show so much why did you join the blog about the show?
Hey MASON, just get the hell off of this blog if you don’t like the show. You have no business here, so just stop being rude about laying off actors. Lena Headey is my favorite, even more then Summer Glau, so just stop being so pessimistic, and go watch T3. If you can’t see it for what it really is, then just GET OUT!!!! We don’t want to read anything you have to say if it’s pure negativity!! Sorry peeps, just couldn’t resist to tell him something!!!
Great interview with BAG today if people here haven’t seen it.
http://digg.com/d1ojJv
Did someone post it already? If so I didn’t see it.
Got a laugh out of Natalie’s descriptions.
Mason Mason Mason…
The thing about arguing on the internet (and this is a sentiment I hold close to My heart) is that it is like competing in the Special Olympics. Need I continue, or have you spent enough time online that you know the second half to that phrase?
In short, gtfo.
Nice read. Thank you Natalie!
Wow Gary, you can really tell B.A.G. cares about the show a lot. You gotta respect that. It’s totally lame that FOX is even putting all of us, fans, cast and crew into this predicament. FOX could be the network of the future if they tapped into the online and international fanbase of this show successfully and kept this show full of potential going. It’s not the expected thing to do, but that’s exactly why it’s the right thing to do. If they renew it after all of the drama, the fans will be very thankful and money off of DVD’s and things like that will sky rocket. If they pull the douchebag move and cancel it, the fans will NEVER forgive FOX. The whole sci-fi non-reality demo will totally avoid FOX for good, starting with myself.
I agree with Mason.
The writing on this show sucked. Long drawn out psuedo-philosophical discussions. strange preachy Religious references…. Boring character analysis. and worse of all, lots and lots of deus ex machina moments… e.g. all of a sudden John reveals that he knew all along where Jesse lived (how about shooting a scene, even a 5 second one, of John standing outside Jesse’s room as Riley talk to Jesse )?
1. The dialogue often sound extremely artificial. they sound like things that someone with a university education would write after hours of careful consideration, not like what someone would SAY out of the top of their head. This is especially bad given that 1) John is a high schooler 2) Sarah is pretty much uneducated teenage mom 3) Derek grew up in without any formal education at all, — he is a child soldier. A good writer should write something carefully so that it sounds like something that someone would say casually; and the wordings should fit their educational/personal background… e.g. high schoolers tend to say “to give something back” they don’t say “to return something”.
2. The lack of continuity from episode to episode is almost unbearable. Cameron switching randomly between A) purely mechanical dialogues B) entirely human-like dialogues (for example in season 1 ep.1) C) dialogue that is obvious meant to make some kind of “point” that the writers wants to make which does not fit anywhere into the Cameron’s character’s established personality.
3. complete lack of relevance. The Terminator Franchise is an EPIC but about 80% of the episodes deals with absolutely uninteresting nuances of the Connors’ life. e.g. Sarah’s angst with the 3 dots draw out for way too many episodes. alpine fields? i still can’t figure out what exactly is the relevance of that… Jesse/Derek/Fisher?… Basically there are way too many episodes scattered all about the place without a CONVINCING unifying theme, (yes everyone can see that it is the writer’s INTENTION that bloody writings on the wall unifies a lot of the episodes in the 2nd season together, but we’re not CONVINCED)
Almost every other episode introduces some random character in a hurry, tells a short story about them, fails to establish their importance,and once the episodes are over, the character simply vanishes without any further reference to them. to give an analogy: it’s like writing a biography about Einstein where you devote 1/3 of a book on one of his restaurant visits in Berlin without saying why the visit is relevant to his life….
4.Too much religion and other nuances amongst the terminators. Terminators are essentially little Ludwig Wittgensteins –Like Wittgenstein they absolutely lack any kind of “paraphernalia” — anything that do not serve their ultimate goal is completely useless to them and disregarded as such. –At least, that is what James Cameron established for HIS terminators. In T1 and T2 one gets the impression that to a terminator is everything is absolutely worthless unless they serve a goal. — Terminators don’t use metaphors, they don’t talk to dead bodies (as weaver did), they certainly won’t talk about the bible AMONGST EACH OTHER. (why in the world would a terminator care about what a few dead Jews said a a few thousand years ago? And even if they did take an interest in Religion, why aren’t they making quote from the Quran, or some Buddhist Sutras or Tao Te Ching, or Hindu, Nordic or African Epics?)
5. Boring cancer related dialogues. I’d have to say Friedman’s battle with cancer probably made him an inferior writer. I underwent chemo/radiation therapy as a teenager. It’s not pleasant, but one thing that you learn when you talk about the experience is that very few people can empathize with the pains of cancer. Cancer, to most people, is about as trivial as a cold unless they get it themselves. You’re not going to get the kind of emotional experience you hope for by portraying Sarah as having cancer. It’s just not happening. You’ll get the attention of cancer survivors like myself, but many other folks…
6. lack of convincing character development. this is probably the fault of the actors as well as the writers. the characters in this show was never developed, they simply changes from episode to episode where it’s hoped that the audience would perceive the change as development. But it’s just not happening because the changes are completely random. Watching the episodes it feels like one writer wants John to be a man, the other writer wants john to be a boy, then 1 episodes later john is more manly again…. Same with the Cameron character. she’s a girl, she’s wants to protect John like a mother, then she’s a cyborg… you never quite understand where the progression is…. there are a series of abrupt, unexplained changes, but no development.
Yes, it’s a good interview, Brian. It’s nice to see him say FOX really does like the show. They realize it’s a very specific audience.
I sure agree with him about the cast and crew. And the writers!
Unlike some of the people posting here, I love the camera crews’ work. I always like to notice the lighting too. Everybody does a great job all around. And to me, Bear McCreary’s work is SO good for this show. It’s perfect.
Awesome writeup! Good to hear that the cast and crew are as hopeful as we are. I wonder if he stopped by here while he was perusing the Terminator fansites? He would see that we aren’t too confused about the possibilities ahead for the story and the characters.
Very strange.
Ausiello says everyone associated with the show has “pretty much” known it’s been canceled for weeks and yet BAG clearly doesn’t and neither does Summer so either Ausiello is wrong or BAG is being both incredibly misleading, at the very least, and is an even better actor than I thought he was (the fact that he brought Summer into the conversation indicates that he’s being completely forthright).
I’m big on noticing Camera views, and the use of lighting and shadows, and I can’t find anything to complain about. I mean, I liked some of the more “flashy” sort of scenes they did more in Season1 (pilot-John shot, Sarah running), but it’s still amazing this season.
And the music fits the show perfectly. Bear McCreary is amazing.
Everyone who works on this show is amazing!
By the way, did you guys know that writer Ashley Miller and Josh Friedman have twitter accounts? They’re pretty funny!
Ashley used to be a computer programmer, working for the military, which basically means he was building SkyNet.
Hahaha, that’s a good shot!
Really funny post! Thanks!
Hope that TSCC writers will all be back for season 3! You did a wonderful job!
DIGG and generate buzz for the TV show:
http://digg.com/television/Brian_Austin_Green_Interview_for_CBR_The_BAGinator_speaks
http://digg.com/television/Are_Dollhouse_And_Sarah_Connor_Chronicles_Already_Canceled
Wacky Sarah and her crazy teenage son. LOL!
Here’s a good quote for you… seems to go quite well… and is so true!
“My definition of a teenager? God’s punishment… for enjoying sex.”
don’t forget to write fox and wb
it’s very important..we need season 3
more and more news on net saying no season 3 and its getting hard to keep hope up for a season 3 witch i dont get with the t4 movie coming out soon and there going lots people wanting more terminator. fox high rating are on the way .
LOL!
Great blog. Very funny. I laughed at this line..
“Ashley used to be a computer programmer, working for the military, which basically means he was building SkyNet.”
So if Ashley was building Skynet, how do we know that Zack isn’t just his pet AI?
And so TSCC has been cancelled ? FOX cancelled it and WarnerBros managers are so dumb to not air the series on any other networks or their own TheCW? Since when FOX is the only existing network in the US ?
——-
http://us.imdb.com/news/ni0746521/
No More Terminator On TV
14 April 2009 11:55 PM, PDT | From wenn.com | See recent WENN news
TV’s Terminator has been terminated.
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles will not be back for a third season in the U.S., according to EW.com.
A source tells the website, “It’s done. Everyone has pretty much known for a couple of weeks. Consider it cancelled.”
The sci-fi drama, starring Summer Glau and Lena Headey, debuted to much acclaim in January, 2008. The second-season finale aired on Friday.
——
Opinions diverge over the quality of Josh Friedman’s work. Without being a sycophant, I hope to take on the task of defending Friedman.
First off, there are legitimate criticisms. The storytelling was uneven in the second season, where Josh employed a mixed of serialized and standalone formats that IMO didn’t work very well because they destroyed the continuity of an already complicated story.
Also, I was one of the critics who isn’t thrilled with the emo to alpha path laid out for John Connor. I thought John’s character arc could have been developed just as effectively with less whining.
Some ideas have worked for me while others have fallen flat. For example, Sarah going nuts worked for me, but the bloody wall and the three dots ultimately did not. I thought that Dorian Harewood’s Dr. Sherman was the biggest missed opportunity of the second season. He lent so much gravitas to the series. The scenes between Dr. Sherman and John, and Dr. Sherman and Sarah, were very compelling. It was frustrating that the character was killed off so quickly.
Sometimes Josh has broken implicit promises to viewers - like Cameron at the prom. I didn’t think Morris was all that great of a character - but Cameron at the prom seemed cool. A lot of people are angry because Josh frakked with their expectations. That’s a problem.
As you can see, I have as many criticisms as the next guy. And yet I defend Josh Friedman because I realize that what we’re experiencing is the unfolding of the creative process in real time. He’s not playing it safe…this guy’s is really going for it. And I prefer that he does.
It is clear that the show hit a certain stride in the back nine, but I don’t think that would have been possible without a certain amount of experimentation. There are few truly great shows that find their legs immediately because to be great you have to take chances, and people are loath to take chances in an environment where the threat of cancellation looms large.
But I’m tired of TV that doesn’t challenge me. Every time you turn on network television it’s another procedural crime drama or another frakking reality show. If we don’t support people who try to break out of the box, then that’s all we’re going to get.
Blow up the frakkin’ barn Josh! Blow it up! I’d rather watch two seasons of this than ten seasons of that other drivel. The real test for me is that after watching TSCC, I don’t feel like I wasted another hour of my life. I feel like I’ve been asked to consider tough questions for which the answers don’t come easy. Isn’t that the promise of the third season? We anticipate that John Connor is going to have the mother of all mindf*cks when he has to deal with Allison, Kyle, and Derek (and possibly Cameron) in a future where he’s not acknowledged as the messiah. I’d pay to see that.
Just though you might be interested. thought id repost this link. http://www.tv.com/favorite-tv-stars/female/index.html
Also @ Mason and Lee, You are intitled to your own opinions but dont expect people not to argue their points to you. I dont see how you can call the writing in this show rubbish. I would love to see you do better, bet you cant.
Have respect for hard working people who bring you a great show under great stress from network interference, budget constraints, strict time schedules.
I will admit and even the writers have admitted that their favourite episodes were the back nine. Maybe they have learnt a valuable lesson (Hopefully not to late) and if the same writing done in the back nine appears in the next 22 episodes. Then damn its going to be a great season 3.
I agree 100% with Logan. All show’s have episodes that people will not like. They can’t make everyone happy with every episode.
@kevin, Exactly i actually cant think of any i did not like this season. but thats just me
@Logan
In short they experimented and took chances, they weren’t just another boilerplate show.
What you say here articulates how I feel about TSCC:
“The real test for me is that after watching TSCC, I don’t feel like I wasted another hour of my life. I feel like I’ve been asked to consider tough questions for which the answers don’t come easy.”
Thanks for the blog post.
@Mason - Shirley Manson is not only incredibly beautiful but for her acting debut with no prior experience or training, she does a brilliant job. I could watch a show with nothing but close-ups of her.
@Lee - You think the writing on this show (”Long drawn out psuedo-philosophical discussions. strange preachy Religious references…. Boring character analysis. and worse of all, lots and lots of deus ex machina moments”) was one of the reasons it wasn’t as popular as it should be? Then explain Lost to me.
Oh no Robot Lovin’ was refered to now the shippers will never stop!
*slapsforhead*
Just keep on doing what you guys have been doing because it has been working.
Awesome. Love hearing about all of the geniuses who actually write the scripts that bring us the magic.
And they all sound so interesting. Heh. ComiCon as a religious holiday. Wonder if I could get away with that…
Keep up the amazing stories! And keep telling us more about the show and the people behind it. As you can see…you have an enraptured audience. That is, of course, if you are given the green light to continue. (Which you must be! After that finale, we fans are dying for more.)
I think this season will not only ’stand the test of time’, it will surpass that challenge with ease. Folks, if(when) you buy the season in its entirety, and watch it as if it were a mini-series or a 22 hour movie, I think you will see the visionary risk that Josh conceived, worked through, and ultimately achieved.
It’s not official ( i hope it wont be), but what do you thing about this?:((( (serval websites writes this information too *cry*)
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/scoop-fox-set-t.html
Hey Hadley (Mr. Red Bull Euro Jeans
),
I’ve got another couple songs for you for a job well done. Just as awesome as Hendrix, though not as well known.
Live performances of Grace Potter and the Nocturnal’s “Nothing But the Water II” and “Stop the Bus.”
The drum solo by all the members of the band (even Grace– the lead singer) towards the middle of “Nothing But The Water” is a percussionist’s dream.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3GhDmRLos&feature=related
—
“Stop the Bus” (Live at Red Rocks… me being from Colorado I love this outdoor venue)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOpdGFkKA8Y
A terrific group of musicians… high energy that must be seen live! I’ve always thought they’d be a great musical edition to the show. IMHO.
Hope you enjoy them! Good luck with Season 3 everybody!
@Nick, Dont be defeated so easily. I have read that article several times now (Since everyone keeps linking the damn thing. Stop it.)
Stop speculating and take your mind of it and come back around May 19th to find the true fate from Fox themselves. Most of these news articles are written from people who obviously are not a fan of the show either way.
@Logan
I agree with Logan’s comment. As for John’s emo to alpha development (Like that description BTW) it’s tough to write so it works compellingly for everyone. (Perhaps that’s why another particular savior story left that part out almost completely.) Good character development story can make our bodies shiver with sympathy or anxiety from our own experiences. Bad character development just makes us cringe or bore us out because somehow it does not just work for us or maybe we just don’t understand it. I guess what we perceive as engaging character development story is a matter of background and personal taste.
I think this is the challenging part - should a writer try and write a story in a way that it gains identification and sympathy with as many viewers as possible. Or should a writers use less conventional or expected ways to tell a story with the risk of leading to confusion and emotional dissonance? We all know the commercial answer to that. But even commercial stories can also fail in execution of course. What I mean is that I find that it is nice to see character’s not always saying what they feel but letting their actions do the talking. Like when viewers tried, for instance, to interpret how a adjustment of a lamp foot can illustrate that character’s current state of mind.
At the same time I acknowledge that Riley-story arc was forced to engage viewers early on but failed to attract viewers attention. Perhaps it felt like a diversion from the main story arc of the season. Somehow it never gained sympathy. Maybe because it took so long for us to get to really know how she was and when we did she was killed before we could gain sympathy for her.
It was perhaps a bad call to drag out that storyline as they did and then end it like they did. Joss Whedon and his writing staff from the Buffy days would probably played the victim card on Riley much stronger, but Josh Friedman and SCC writing staff never did. Like the death of Derek it got pretty “real” - and perhaps that was still the right way to do it.
Sometimes it’s hard to know what to feel when the story is not delivered exactly as you expect. Sometime it works for some of us, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s hard to play trial and error with character development stories on national TV, especially on high concept shows and perhaps even more so with a licensed concept with many years of history. Everyone has their opinion, their taste. But still the show got me to feel somehow by triggering feelings you usually don’t trigger, and that you usual find on “cerebral shows” found on HBO and Showtime.
Meanwhile movie makers are saying that TV has taken a greater role in great storytelling than movies today. I also like to believe that can also be seen in the relationship how quality TV on channels like HBO and Showtime can influence the TV making on regular networks. In a way maybe this show is trying this even harder than successful high concept shows like “Lost”.
If we push away the issues we have with the trial and error in certain character development storylines on the shows, maybe the biggest predicament lies in how you can create a realistic and engaging story with the help of conflicting elements? Elements like how a show which should both be thought provoking, have classic action elements but with a ridiculous 80s SF-concept twist, and at the same time use a dramatic pacing and storytelling normally found on smaller cerebral drama shows? I think it has worked but it has taken some unconventional paths for better or worse. Still, it helped at least keeping my interest up.
As I said before: “It’s gutsy and I like it that way”
If there were no stories about the 3 dots we woul’ve been like ‘what the hell’ when the HK came flying through the window. It would’ve made no sense.
@Matt,
It could have been done and set up differently and we wouldn’t have been subjected to Sarah’s dragged out arc, which just about sunk the show ratings wise at the mid season point when we needed really, really vibrant and kick ass material as we’ve been starting to see again..
Besides, I never saw three dots on The Turk’s RAID array before that shot (prove me wrong and I’ll eat these words). How could Sarah have remembered that when those LED’s weren’t there before?
Things to think about for next season.
@Dan i quite enjoyed it and i am sure i am not the only one.
@Dan Hitchman
Agree on your analysis for the mid-season “dryout”. Gutsy for better or worse, as I said. Sometime it doesn’t work and it did not help the ratings when we needed it. The story arced could’ve been streamlined. It was both perhaps a strategic mistake and a mistake based upon the late back-nine order from the network. Remember - they had a week to write “Desert Cantos”.
The three dots could have been better implemented and perhaps with something else than the Turk. I wonder though if the blood stains on the wall meant that JH and Miss Weaver may still be a threat even though they may be perceived as “somewhat friendly” at this point.
Next season I hope we will see sides of Sarah we haven’t seen before and probably executed much better. High hopes - if we get a season 3.
Listening to some websites,
Fox has already canceled TSCC . And it’s only time to wait for announcement on May 18th.
Ok, so you want to make me believe that Fox has already decided, but it’s takin one month and more to give announcement ?? Fox ??
They can cancel everything in every moment, and give announcement the second after,i think.
if they are takin time to let finale’s climax passin and then erasin the show, it’s gonna be an absurd and incorrect behaviour…are they crazy ?!?
I think probably Fox is takin time and judgin’ every aspect about TSCC: ratin, fans, Dvd, DVR ecc…
and on May 18th we should know something.
i’m so tired about “insider”…friend of a friend of a friend ecc…
Fox is adult and can speak for itself! Waitin in faith.
FFFOOOx and WWAARNEEER BROOOS !!! S3 please !!
Well, the writing staff seems to think otherwise, so chill down. Check this guys comment:
http://www.fox.com/blogs/terminator/2009/04/13/the-plan/#comment-19011
Reading this
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20811
it seems that work is goin on behind the scenes !!
Great !
Hopefully …
FOX and WARNER BROS !!!!
Everybody : Don’t give up!
Don’t give up!
Don’t give up!
Don’t give up!
Don’t give up!
NO FATE…
Guys… stop fighting.. this is a blog … you can comment here but for the post hadley just put it…
why don´t you give your email to go to chat in the messenger….
if you dont like this show then go to watch sponge bob……
Forgive them Hadley, they´re just a kids….
Thank you Hadley for keep us posted by two years……
Can you tell Summer Glau that i love her…please….. Tell me later if you did so i can give her my phone number….. jajajajja…… just tell her that i love her….
did the series continue or do I finish here??
Another thought:
Cameron gets untangled from JH and is placed in a fresh body, a fresh and undamaged chip. Okay now…
The events of the past two seasons have been completely frakked up anyway and the time frame by which they happened makes very little sense now (has it been two years, six months, a couple months…? and so forth), so this could help reboot that calendar of events with a do-over.
I would, perhaps, blend Cameron’s “re-birth” with a stylistic sequence of “happenings.”
1) Have a new endo designed and built and photographed and with the music score in a more dream-like fashion with a more “magical” and “wondrous” feel to it… as if Cameron coming on-line again is something extra-special and extraordinary compared to a regular Terminator build. Slow-mo (not strobe like, but a real smooth, slow-mo of certain key shots like with sparks from the machinery welding mechanisms dancing and flying like pixie-dust or fireflies out of some fairytale storybook). Remember the Oz references.
2) Tie it to the birth of Allison Young in the present. As Allison is born, so is Cameron “re-born” in this new Future. Intersperse the two scenes.
3) John, with the help of “Bizarro” Derek, tracks down Weaver and John Henry to the factory facility from “Heavy Metal” where Cameron is being given a new lease on life.
4) “Bizarro” Allison Young and “Evil Jesse”… played by Jacobson in aged makeups or by an older actress who looks similar to her… have plotted to have Current John possibly killed due to his “metal loving” stance. Allison Young places a tracker on John and follows behind to the same facility.
5) John catches up with Weaver and JH as Cameron is being re-built and transferred to her new body. He goes and stands by the “final stage” Tissue Generator machine (he hasn’t seen her yet), in eager anticipation of this reunion.
Cameron, dramatically steps from the “form” machine out of a cloud of mist and steam. She sees John standing there, transfixed. He has come for her. He traveled the winds of time for her. It’s an astonishing turn.
They stand facing each other… they don’t know what to say. And finally they embrace fiercely, holding each other as if they let go each would disappear forever.
John [to Cameron... referencing Cameron's statement that John loves her, from "Samson and Delilah"]: You were right.
Allison Young, in the shadows, sees this reunion with horror. There is a machine that looks just like her and she’s with John and with them as well is a liquid metal T-1001and John Henry. This is the final straw.
She emerges from the shadows with gun drawn and raised. Cameron looks up as she’s holding John, shock and realization registering in her eyes, and grabs the gun in John’s holster at his waist, disentangles herself from John… and fires, shooting Allison right between the eyes.
John whips around, stunned and in utter shock. Allison Young just tried to kill him, of all people… and would have succeeded if Cameron hadn’t saved his life… again.
Some people are too busy counting numbers of scenes or looking for titty shots and explosions to notice 90% of the clues dropped in the episodes. Attention deficit?
@ Dan Hitchman. Well that was nicely done. But they would most likely not put in the hug. It would probably be another one of those OMG your back i love you so much looks, that John seems so well at doing.
@Kevin_oneton,
Thanks! Though I added the embrace because…
1) It happened in T2 as well, as a sign of deep love and affection (John and Arnold)
2) The fans would go absolutely nuts
3) This is a very special moment where their pent up feelings come out. A moment of unfiltered feelings mutually shared. They’ve been a part, now they are one again.
4) As a practical matter you need to get them so close that you can transition in a split second from a moment of tenderness to Cameron opening her eyes, looking up and seeing Allison Young, registering surprise, seeing what’s about to go down, and so she can grab John’s gun (she is weaponless… and in her Built Day Suit, of course) and protect him with it, by shooting Allison with one, clean kill shot.
4) We need to be watching 45 minutes worth of cinema excitement every so often. The audience isn’t seeing a TV show… they’re viewing a mini movies every week.
EDIT: that last 4) should have been a 5)
Since you guys are talking about jameron, I think at the very least the two of them need to HOLD HANDS either when they meet again or in the series finale before the fade to black. I know you haters think anything else would be weird and inappropriate, but holding hands would pwn.
@Starkiller:
“Attention deficit?”
Not enough blood left for their brains to work.
a reminder..
BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90213-0900
WB
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
4000 Warner Blvd
Burbank CA 91522
FOX Broadcasting
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
10201 W. Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90035
askfox@fox.com
Scott.Rowe@Warnerbros.com
@Brian from Canada,
Were you watching the same season finale I was? They’ve gone way beyond “hand holding!” LOL!
About frakkin’ time too!
Besides - with cameron’s ‘glitch’, I don’t think I’d want her holding any part of MY anatomy!
There is a 51% probablility that I will crush your…
Actually Dan not technically, only in our imagination. They never even hugged yet. John so obviously wanted to kiss her in the finale but pussied out. Don’t know why. She is a sexy robot sent to serve you man!! Do the math!!!!
Lol…
Wolfie,
Ouch!
Though a fresh Cameron 2.0 would have the “kinks” worked out. LOL!
Giving her a new and improved endo and tougher organic covering design (change the hair style as an inside joke!), but with her mind fully functional… with maybe a bit of emotional improvement from co-habitating with The Turk… roomies in their chip “dorm room” arrangement.
That’s why I mentioned having a very unique and dreamlike and fairytale quality to her re-build and re-birth. She’s unlike any other Terminator on the block… something special.
“@ Mason and Lee, You are intitled to your own opinions but dont expect people not to argue their points to you. I dont see how you can call the writing in this show rubbish. I would love to see you do better, bet you cant.
Have respect for hard working people who bring you a great show under great stress from network interference, budget constraints, strict time schedules.”
Well said, Chris V. Thank you.
Now, regarding the rumors of cancellation, follow my reasoning:
People make blogs because they want to be famous (or they already are, but they want to be even more famous).
There are 2 reasons why people want to be famous:
1) They want to be famous because they think that way they’ll be rich. To be rich you need a lot of money. To get money from a blog you need ADS. To get advertisers you need your blog to have a huge number of hits, but unfortunately there’s a lot of competence between bloggers this days, so sometimes you might need lie, to make up shocking news for your blog to get that huge numbers of hits. Money, guys… Money…
1) They want to be famous because they need to feed their huge ego and/or they desperately need to be the focus of everybody’s attention. To feed a huge ego or be the focus of everybody’s attention you need to compete and defeat the other bloggers to have the best material first. When you have nothing it’s very frustrating, so why not making up shocking news to call everybodies attention on them and, at the same time, make more money from advertisement. And once the rumors were proved to be false you put the blame on your sources. Seems quite convenient, huh?
So… Let’s not pay attention to those rumors… The future’s not set.
Just don’t give up!! Keep voting!!!
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b107874_save_one_show_help_your_fave_see.html
Send your e-mails!!
askfox@fox.com
Scott.Rowe@Warnerbros.com
Get involved!!
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Clamor+for+Season+3
Let our voices be heard!!
There’s no fate but what WE make.
@ Dan Hitchman
That scenerio would’ve been too cheap especialy with Derek already coming back from the dead after 1 episode.
I suspect theres gonna be something between John and Allison. Where Jesse failed, Weaver got the job done. By bringing (unintentionaly) John to meet Allison she fixed him into being around other ppl instead of isolating.
As for Jameron I doubt they would’ve shown us anything more than what we’ve already seen through the whole series - John giving Cameron those looks and Cameron going like ‘we have to go’.
But hey your guesses are just as good as mine and with those crazy writers Im sure we’re gonna see something completly diffrent and much cooler.
@Brian,
It was a very intimate moment… and beyond the pale of mere hugging and hand holding, which they also, though very briefly, did.
Now, with Cameron’s eyes open even wider and with a new lease on life… John has someone very special in his life.
That’s why I put this new Allison Young as a sort of villainess in this version of the Future.
Again, the tables are turned. Cameron kills Allison in order to become her in an act of murder in the first itinerary. Cameron then kills Allison to be “born again” in this alternate reality because she is protecting John’s life from her.
1) Cameron (bad or semi-bad)… kills Allison Young… an innocent
2) Cameron (now choosing to be good and in love)… kills Allison Young… a not-so innocent.
Juxtaposition.
Alamo,
I would be mighty pissed if they have something “going on” with Allison and John.
I think a lot of Cameron fans would be too.
Cameron, let me repeat, does not equal Allison except in looks, not content of character.
And now, I’m hammering that point home with this switcheroo.
Oops! I just keep on making up words… “everybodies”?? [More than ever, 'edit' button, please]
Need to pay more attention before posting, sorry.
Here ya go all you Summer lovers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRq8YmwRTqI&feature=related
Here’s maybe one way to point this Allison does not equal Cameron to John…
John and Allison have a little discussion in the bunker…
John [trying to open up to her with small talk]: Do you like… dancing?
Allison [looks at John askance like she's thinking, "what a weird question"]: Dancing?
John: Yeah, like ballet. That sort of thing.
Allison [as if John just asked her "do you like to stroll through a park on Sundays?"]: Hell no!… Who has time to dance?
They continue to walk though the compound in silence.
Another point to Cameron.
On the other hand Dan, Alison has body warmth, fluids, etc. Just saying
@ Brian from Canada,
That completely flies in the face of what has been shown so far. Why would they build up Cameron to dump her as “not as good as a human” the moment Allison Young comes into the picture.
That would be the ultimate betrayal of the character of Cameron and the majority of fans by the writers, by Josh, and the other producers.
That would be as if James Cameron dumped on Arnold’s Terminator in T2. He didn’t. Arnold was allowed to shine brightly, and he was “metal.”
I kno I kno, I’m just talking as a straight human male here.
@Wolfie what you said way up there was hysterical. I wouldn’t want her touching any thing on me!
Oh so true!
I just think that if they did have an Allison in the future we would just see her get killed by Cameron again after we are all attached to her and then that Cameron would infiltrate John’s “camp” Well he would just let her in because he knows who she is and trusts her . I don’t want to see Allison die again. Does anyone think that John had a relationship with just Allison or Cameron as well becasue of Allison?
Ok I don’t even know what I’m trying to explain anymore:)
AND:
I don’t really believe that writing letters now would do anything. I think FOX is just waiting for any reaason to cancel this show. I don’t think they care much.
Why does Alison have to die? Cromartie was made before he killed the original guy. So was Ellisonbot.
Well I don’t know? I guess I only assumed that would happen because that’s what we saw happen, but maybe….I don’t know I can’t see anything other than that.:(
Also why is Kyle “back”? If he was succesful in saving SC then why didn’t he stay because he loved her so much? And if he wasn’t successful then why is he back?
Here’s another “Jameronite” moment…
Fast forward a bit after my little scene discussion above. John and Cameron have not “clicked their heels together” yet and returned home from the Land of Oz.
John is in one of the bunkers that house various “residents’” sleeping quarters… away from the dogs. Cameron is keeping vigilant watch.
John is shivering and trying to stay warm under some blankets on an old mattress on the ground, and get some sleep (he can’t… it’s cold and he’s been through a rough emotional patch finding out Allison was untrustworthy, etc., etc.). Cameron gazes at John and his discomfort, her eyes softening slightly.
Cameron walks over to the mattress and sits next to him.
John looks up at Cam, is startled for a moment, and then shifts positions, by the look he sees in her eyes. Cameron slips off her boots, pulls back the blankets, and slips beneath, fully clothed (as it wouldn’t be logical or possibly very smart to undress further in this place). She then wraps her arm about him and moves close to him, very close, eye to eye.
John [making a pleased sound]: You’re nice and warm. Thank you.
Cameron: Try to sleep, John. You need it.
John finally drifts off. Cameron stays right with him, staring at him. He’s snoring softly. She slowly, very slowly reaches her right hand up from the covers, and starts stroking his hair, lovingly, softly.
In the morning Cameron is back at her post, when John wakes up, as if nothing happened.
@Dan Hitchman You ever considered fanfic?:)
Oh wait what about Savanah (?) saying Weaver’s lap was cold? Maybe the whirring mechanisms make Cameron warm and the liguid metal make Weaver cold??
Ok what if Kyle is the leader of the resistance and he’s in a relationship with Allison and John only wants Cameron and doesn’t care if Allison dies or not?
-discuss-
sorry if I’m way behind in the theories stream
@Persia,
Kyle never had to leave for the Past (he came back from the mission Derek thought he was on anyway) to be with Sarah because there was no John to send him back. There would be no need anyway since John Connor already exists.
As discussed earlier. This Future is a one-off time line. It’s not supposed to be. John has to get Cam and get back to correct it. He has to figure out that he’s necessary and can’t shirk his responsibilities.
I just thought it would be cool if Cameron and Allison got to switch places because of this fact.
Cam becomes Allison, kills Allison to gain access to the camps for possibly nefarious reasons in the first go-around.
Now, in this Fruit Loopy time line, the Cam we know and love must be brought back from JH’s chip and found a new home, and Allison is around and John knows about Cameron and is trying to find her…
And Evil Jesse, not killed by the first Derek, is snooping around under a different identity (since there are two Jesses now), and knows about Allison from her looking like Cameron…
Evil Jesse has weaseled in and already poisoned this Allison against John. And when John shows up unexpectedly… Jesse’s plan goes into high gear.
Allison is now the viper in the grass (and not quite so pure or innocent as Riley was). As I posted above, Cameron once re-born, kills Allison before she can kill John.
Allison is fated to die for Cameron. Why not make it really dramatic and switch the character dynamic around?
Allison’s the cold blooded killer now. And it helps negate Cameron’s “badness” for killing Allison in the first time line because the two deaths cancel each other out.
Cameron is redeemed and is now better than ever.
Ok guys, so who in your opinion is the sexiest?
(a) Cameron Philips
(b) Alison from Palmdale
(c) Summer Glau
(d) That one chick from Firefly
Cameron
She has that certain je ne sais quoi the others do not.
And her “body” is nice too. Um… er…
Wow that actually all made sense. I don’t know if I agree with it but it makes sense!
When Allison was killed though she didn’t seem like a fighter and she gave up pretty easily. Which I guess could be explained that she was staring down a Terminator. So … I don’t know could work, but I don’t really think they would go that direction
@ Persia,
Why not?
It would be like the classic, original Star Trek episode “Mirror, Mirror.”
Allison was good last time, Cam started out bad… now this Allison is like “evil Spock” (good became bad), and Cameron gets to be the good one.
Also, the metal resistance headed by Weaver in this go-around is good (or semi-good), and the human characters and their resistance are not quite so lovable (semi-bad).
What a neat twist!
Cameron and John are caught in the middle and have to dodge the mine fields to return home to the past and set things right.
Ahhh girl crush!
Ok where’s (E) all of the above?
As long as we don’t get arrested.
There’s no all of the above! Pick a side people, we’re at war! Lol Colbert…
@Dan Hitchman Well was Cameron ever really bad? I don’t believe she was, just a chip problem not programming. Like the change with the Resistance and Weaver switching. So then they return home to where Cameron would be bad again?
Just playing Devil’s advocate here.
@Brian again
River was crazy so…..
Allison, um,
Summer don’t like to comment on real people since it’s awkward
So I guess yeah Cameron even though she could kill you.
I have such great reasons, no? ;D
http://digg.com/television/Terminator_DollHouse_NOT_Canceled_Yet
Dan your going to love me for this…but I was thinking about how much terminators have changed just in what we‘ve seen on the show. We have seen them create those self terminating chips that Cameron has not seen before or even Weaver for that matter.
Can terminators in this wizard of oz time line block whatever makes a dog go wild when they’re around? Why not have a new line of terminators who can fool dogs?
With that thought in mind…that terminators could now fool dogs… and everyone thinks the last part was Alison…could that really be Cameron and that she has already infiltrated the group and no one knows it?
John would think he’s getting to know the human verison. You would see Cameron in full infiltrator mode and Cameron wouldn’t kill John because he’s not the resistance leader so no kill command.
That would be a twist.
I think I’m going through TSCC withdrawals…I miss my Friday nights with TSCC already!!
We just better get that season 3 so John can save his Cameron and get the Jameron going!!!
@Persia,
First off here are the main characters “unchanged” by the new time line (since they were not from said new time line, and instead jumped into it, or already had knowledge of the previous time lines, and/or had interaction with our Current John Connor and would recognize him now in this Future):
Time Jumpers:
John Connor
John Henry/Cameron/The Turk
Catherine Weaver
Knowledge of John and/or past events leading to this new time line:
“Evil” Jesse (she ain’t dead IMHO)
Sarah Connor (if she survived)
James Ellison
Danny Dyson
John Henry’s brother at KalibaCorp.
The Chola (Hispanic chick)
Morris
Cheri Weston
Mrs. Dyson
Savannah Weaver
Here are those main characters who are basically re-boots:
New Derek Reese
New Kyle Reese
New Allison Young
New Jesse
New Riley
These latter characters could be anything the writers want them to be, now… they are different than before, and could have been influenced by some from the second list from above.
In my shared opinion, fanficiness, whatever… “Evil” Jesse has been poisoning at least Allison Young to her cause, and maybe others. That’s how this new Allison could potentially be bad, whilst Cameron is now good, and stays good since she has not been influenced by this changed time line.
Savannah Weaver may also be a key player from the past.
Persia, to your other question… I think Cameron started out bad the very first time, but had a change of heart once she met John Connor (the 40ish year old version) in the flesh, and I think he spared her, which would make her question her preconceived notions. John Connor did not reprogram her… she did it herself internally. She decided to fight her root programming.
John and Cameron would need to get back to the past and erase this “Bizarro” Oz or Star Trek alternate reality.
John cannot afford to stay anonymous, and he needs to find a way to stop Kaliba, stop JD, and stop the nightmare Holocaust of JD.
Since he gets to see the horror first hand… he comes back with a new sense of purpose and urgency. John Henry and Cameron and CW need to get back as well. Their rolls are intertwined with the current time line, not this one.
IMHO.
@Kea, they probably come up with a way…
In fact, in my thoughts of Cameron getting a brand new body, part of the advancement in her endo, and her much tougher skin, hair, and necessary organ covering would be the ability to swim (due to lighter and tougher materials than Coltan), would affect the smell and sweat and they would seem normal to dogs.
Though, the person John sees is “Bizzaro” Allison Young, and not Cameron.
If you read my character listing above, you can see where this time line is different from any proceeding or future time line…
The old rules no longer apply. A reboot indeed. They are not locked on the same tired loop as before.
Hope you liked my ideas above too.
Good night.
Focusing on Cameron:
First Cameron: Bad then decides to go “good” by meeting 40ish John Connor (this is the Cameron the now dead Derek knew)
Second Cameron: Good Cameron who has jumped back to be with this John Connor and stays with him until God knows when in the Future (where 2nd Jesse knows her and knows she’s stayed with John for a long, long time… it’s this 2nd Jesse who travels back with Riley)
Third Cameron: The Cameron you see now who has allowed JH/The Turk to ride on her chip into this new wild and woolly Future inside Cromartie’s body. She has not lived with John from his teens into his 40’s.
Makes my head hurt!! LOL!
“Hey Jude” by The Beatles (for John and Cameron… John’s coming for you!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXG83p2nkHw
“…Hey Jude, don’t be afraid
You were made to go out and get her
The minute you let her under your skin
Then you begin to make it better…”
This song always puts a spring in my step.
Someone on another blog shared with me a couple of ballads, so it inspired me to break out the Billy Joel… the piano man. For all you Jamronites out there.
“And So It Goes”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXUCVUui554
In every heart there is a room
A sanctuary safe and strong
To heal the wounds from lovers past
Until a new one comes along
I spoke to you in cautious tones
You answered me with no pretense
And still I feel I said too much
My silence is my self defense
And every time I’ve held a rose
It seems I only felt the thorns
And so it goes, and so it goes
And so will you soon I suppose
But if my silence made you leave
Then that would be my worst mistake
So I will share this room with you
And you can have this heart to break
And this is why my eyes are closed
It’s just as well for all I’ve seen
And so it goes, and so it goes
And you’re the only one who knows
So I would choose to be with you
That’s if the choice were mine to make
But you can make decisions too
And you can have this heart to break
And so it goes, and so it goes
And you’re the only one who knows
One last song in case the Billy Joel ballad made you feel sad.
Stealers Wheel: “Stuck In The Middle With You”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaNukkjoqMU
Dan?
Who is the president?
@Innocent,
I have Obama-mania! LOL!
Whooo Hooo!!
Ron Paul!
Or is it…
Dennis Kucinich?
Oh wait, isn’t he a Leprechaun?
At least that’s what Stephen Colbert thinks he is.
Though, he does have a pretty nice looking wife… must be doing something right!
LOL!
RCN says: Cuddly
OK, you pass the memory test.
I was wondering with all these lyrics.
Not that there’s anything wrong with it!!!
(Seinfeld)
RCN says: Brinks.
A mean to finance the show?
Or we could always go with Eric Clapton…
“I’ve Got A Rock ‘n’ Roll Heart”
http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=track&id=tra.16701716
As “they fall into the arms of the night,” there are some things Cameron has “gotta know” about John “before they go crazy, before they explode…”
He gets off on ‘57 Chevy’s
He gets off on screamin’ guitars
Like the way it gets him
Every time it hits him…
He’s gotta rock ‘n’ roll heart.
That is what she’s getting, and he don’t wanna change…
I’m goin’ Roger Clyne again, Dan:
‘Girly’
Well I’m going to the hardware store
I’m going to buy you a really big hammer
Girly won’t you pull these nails out of my heart
Then I’m going to the sporting goods store
I’m going to buy you a really heavy baseball bat
Girly won’t you knock these thoughts out of my head
Beat me till I’m black and blue
And I’m hanging by a thread
Then I can get back up
And we can do it all over again
Well I’m going to a liquor store
I’m going to buy you a really big bottle
Girly won’t you pour some light into my life
Then I’m going to the firearms store
I’m going to buy you a really pretty handgun
Girly won’t you blow this mess out of my mind
Beat me till I’m black and blue
And I’m very nearly dead
Then I can get back up
And we can do it all over again
Well all over again (Repeat)
Third verse same as the first
I’m going to the hardware store
I’m going to buy you a really big hammer
Girly won’t you pull these nails out of my heart
Then I’m going to the sporting goods store
I’m going to buy you …???? !!! (translation: whatever you want it to be)
Beat me till I’m black and blue
And my body’s bloody red
And I can get back up
And we can do it all over again
Well all over again (Repeat)
————————————–
Perfect Terminatrix!
RCN says: Appleton action
Wish we had an EDIT button. That was Clyne, but not with the Peacemakers, with the Refreshments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQVxwsZcd2U
Here’s some Jameron for you now. Still Clyne:
Winter in your Heart(aka the non-leaky nuclear reactor)http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=track&id=tra.14342857&remote=false&page=&pageregion=&guid=&from=&hasrhapx=false&__pcode=
Roses should be standing here
Brown eyes shouldn’t cry
Hearts be made unbreakable
Blue eyes shouldn’t lie
The sun is dyin’ to see you
The clouds are begging to part
Spring is waiting on you
Is it still Winter in your heart?
Bottles should be deeper
The hourglass should lie
Candles let burn longer still
Bullets shouldn’t fly
Is it still Winter in your heart?
Do you refuse another season’s start?
The birds have all flown from my trees
They’ve gone away with all my yesterdays and used-to-bes
Is it still Winter in your heart?
Let flood the light
Let the curtains part
Roses should be standing here
Blue eyes shouldn’t cry
Hearts be made unbreakable
Brown eyes shouldn’t lie
Good stuff, Wolfie.
Here’s a bit o’ Irish rock for John’s wee metal lassie, Cameron, courtesy of Mark Knopfler:
“Darling Pretty”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBppwtJU3Pc
It’s time to come away, my darlin’ pretty
It’s time to come away on the changin’ tide
Time to come away, darlin’ pretty
And I need you darlin’ by my side
Heal me with a smile, darlin’ pretty
Heal me with a smile and a Heart of Gold
Carry me awhile, my darlin’ pretty
Heal my achin’ heart and soul
Just like a castaway
Lost upon an endless sea
I saw you far away
Come to rescue me
Cast away the chains, darlin’ pretty
Cast away the chains away behind
Take away my pain, my darlin’ pretty
And the chains that once were yours and mine
There will come a day, darlin’ pretty
There will come a day when hearts can fly
Love will find a way, my darlin’ pretty
Find a Heaven for you and I
Love will find a way, my darlin’ pretty
Find a Heaven for you and I…
Let’s see if I can stump Zack. Who said this line in what episode in response to what?
“You bet your pointy ears I am.”
Is there any chance Cameron is really liquid metal? Could liquid assume the form of an 800 series? I know in T2 arnold said the T-1000 prototype couldn’t assume complex machine parts, but Cam could be more advanced than the prototype.
I
McCoy said it to Spock. Was it in the one with the Gorn?
10-k,
Not on your Nelly… the T-100x’s are basically like liquid metal amoebas… they only form an outward shape and texture for infiltration.
No complex internal parts.
But the key here is that they are unlike the endo-skeleton jobbers with software, as they are basically animals, but with a rudimentary carbon based basis for being.
All life on Earth is carbon based anyway… humans are too, if you remember your basic biology.
A haunting Dave Matthews song…
“Gravedigger”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdbkG6cZK5k
Cyrus Jones: 1810 to 1913
Made his great grandchildren believe
You could live to a 103
A hundred and three is forever when you’re just a little kid
So, Cyrus Jones lived forever
Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain?
Gravedigger
Muriel Stonewall: 1903 to 1954
She lost both of her babies in the second great war
Now, you should never have to watch as your only children are lowered in the ground
I mean never have to bury your own babies
Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain?
Gravedigger
Ring around the rosey
Pocket full o’posey
Ashes to ashes
We all fall down
Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain?
Oh… Gravedigger
Little Mikey Carson: ‘67 to ‘75
He rode his bike like the devil until the day he died
When he grows up he wants to be Mr. Vertigo on the flying trapeze
Oh, 1940 to 1992–
Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain?
Oh, gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain
I can feel the rain
I can feel the rain?
Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain?
Gravedigger
Gravedigger
Wow you’ve all been busy.
I’m just wondering why Brian from Canada is giving shout outs to U.S. candidates LOL.
Looks like we should start a playlist for Jameron on YouTube if someone hasn’t already.
@Persia,
We’d have one hell of a soundtrack! LOL!
One last diddie…
Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds “Eh Hee”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlI8YsRthG4
“Praise God who has many names
But the devil have many more
So, with the love that my mother gave me
I’m gonna drop the devil to the floor
I’m gonna drop the devil to his knees
I’m gonna drop the devil to his knees
Strange evolution when people have come to believe
That we are it’s greatest conclusion
When wherein, we’re just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves
Hello God I’m avoiding the truth…”
“Somebody’s gonna change the world.”
Well, on a drizzly, gray day and a very slow one at that on this blog (hope this isn’t a sign)…
Here are two more high energy songs for the Jameronites from Dave Matthews Band…
“When The World Ends” (Live at CU’s Folsom Field in beautiful Boulder, Colorado)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doT5uZLInWc
—
“Crash Into Me”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ_Nf7yGxbc
What’s that song they played on that cheesy superhero show? The Eve of Destruction or something like that?
oops, I may have shown my age on that one.
Barry McGuire: “Eve Of Destruction”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RfolQzInEE
—
Make love, not war.
Another ode to John and Cameron, and everyone of you fans and the fine cast and crew of Terminator:
Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush: “Don’t Give Up”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJWurqWTeSk
in this proud land we grew up strong
We were wanted all along
I was taught to fight, taught to win
I never thought I could fail
No fight left or so it seems
I am a man whose dreams have all deserted
I’ve changed my face, I’ve changed my name
But no one wants you when you lose
Don’t give up
‘Cos you have friends
Don’t give up
You’re not beaten yet
Don’t give up
I know you can make it good
Though I saw it all around
Never thought that I could be affected
Thought that we’d be the last to go
It is so strange the way things turn
Drove the night toward my home
The place that I was born, on the lakeside
As daylight broke, I saw the Earth
The trees had burned down to the ground
Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up
We don’t need much of anything
Don’t give up
‘Cause somewhere there’s a place
Where we belong
Rest your head
You worry too much
It’s gonna be alright
When times get rough
You can fall back on us
Don’t give up
Please don’t give up
‘Got to walk out of here
I can’t take anymore
Goin’ to stand on that bridge
Keep my eyes down below
Whatever may come
And whatever may go
That river’s flowing
That river’s flowing
Moved on to another town
Tried hard to settle down
For every job, so many men
So many men no-one needs
Don’t give up
‘Cause you have friends
Don’t give up
You’re not the only one
Don’t give up
No reason to be ashamed
Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up, now
We’re proud of who you are
Don’t give up
You know it’s never been easy
Don’t give up
‘Cause I believe there’s a place
There’s a place where we belong…
Don’t give up
Regarding:
Dan Hitchman April 15th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Just a couple of ideas to add to yours, which were very good.
They could also show Sarah, Ellison, Mirch (sp) and Savanna, with them having guided her and she becoming a computer whiz and running the company, reunited and working with Weaver and JH
@ Rich H,
I like how you think…
Catherine Weaver, Savannah (now grown), Mr. Murch (now older), and John Connor work with John Henry to get Cameron’s software glitch-free, and given a new body and chip (see multiple threads above for more on that) as they try desperately to keep at bay the part of the human resistance hell bent on total machine annihilation and battle Kaliba’s version of Skynet (hell bent on total destruction of man and sentient machine) to rectify this frakked up Future and set things right.
There is soooo much potential for Season 3 and beyond.
If only they get our beloved Cameron back to us and John (cough - better than ever - cough) very quickly… within the first two or three episodes. Just enough to establish this “Mirror, Mirror” Allison Young is working against John (in league with the older Evil Jesse and the anti-peace brigade? Perhaps.), and get her (and Jesse) bumped off for good. Again, see my blog posts above.
Cinematic, powerful, high energy… just plain amazing.
Whenever anyone asks Josh and Co. about what they are doing for Season 3, 4, 5… whatever…
They can say (to quoth 2010): Something wonderful.
@Dan Hitchman
With all the ideas coming out since your first post on this, if we keep it up and if Fox is stupid enough not to give a season 3, Josh could write a full length movie. That wouldn’t be as good as a season 3 but better than nothing.
I am like you, until Fox says that it is canceled, then there is always hope that we will all be back in front of our sets watching to see what happens next.
I’ll bring the [root] beer.
if Fox won’t bring this show back for another season, it is a real shame. It is the best written and produced show out there. The cast is talented and how it is filmed is superb. If Fox won’t bring it back, could you pitch it as a show that focuses on John Connor and change the title? I’m only suggesting this as a last ditch effort to be able to watch a tv show that offers something different than all the reality, hospital, forensic, and cop tv shows out there already. No disrespect intended and you can all stop laughing now.
just read the above comment, a movie would be very very good! you all have the talent to make a really good movie. The season finale was spine-tingling!! it was so intense and surprising!! Weaver helping the Connors??? wow, I did not see that coming! Shirley Manson does that role extremely well. I was really looking forward to seeing what would happen when the Connors found out about John Henry. It was such a surprising season finale! What would the reactions of viewers who had never watched Sarah Chronicles be after having seen the finale?
just having read many comments, had to comment again after being flabergasted at comments from Mason and Lee. Art direction and cinematography?? it’s a tv show!! not the same budget as the movie Traffic, for ex. I think it’s quite fine, personally. I think the close-ups of the characters’ faces accompanied by McReary’s haunting theme is brilliant. It is what makes us care about the characters and sets this show apart from glib shows like Chuck. As for the “long drawn out pseudo-etc.” isn’t that what makes “Lost” a winning show, and lets see shows like X-files, Twin Peaks… Since I’m your target audience, here are the shows I like: Heroes (but the story keeps coming back to the same old loop: mutants VS the company, aakkk), Survivor, Grey’s Anatomy (but honestly, there are only so many times you can break up Meredith and Sheppard before it gets really old and annoying), and I get a chuckle out of the Office and 30 Rock, although I don’t tune into them all the time. TSCC surpassed all my faves midway through this season and the season finale clinched it. Wayyyyy more surprising and entertaining than the finale of Heroes. TSCC finale was by far the most mind-blowing finale I have ever seen. Kudos to Josh Friedman and writing staff and to the cast and crew.