Wow. Really? No way! How in the…? Okay, okay, talk about Today is the Day - Part 2 with your fellow Chroniclers right here. If you haven’t seen it, spoilers ahead.
Update: We’ll be back Monday with the usual behind-the-scenes scoop, but because Ash noticed so many of you asking (and I forgot to tell the good people at FOX for the main site), the song that plays over Derek and Jesse in the garage is New Messiah by Dead Heart Bloom.
awesome! liking it so far!
a few mins left and this is the best episode i have ever seen!!
Man, they picked the worst time to go to a commercial for us lol
Great episode!
I missed a few minutes though, does anyone know how long fox/hulu wait to put it on their website?
Very nice episode, it really answers some running questions and in true Terminator fashion makes some more. I was also so blown away that John apologized to Cameron. It makes me happy.
Awesome episode, the preview seems even better
okay, this show was interesting at first and does have some great actors and a good plot but GOOD GOD how about some action, I mean really the name of the show is Terminator so how about doing a little of it (alot of it would be better) Put the brakes on the crying and feelings (I get enough of that with the chic flicks I gotta watch with the wife) Start TERMINATING!!!!
Awesome episode, can’t wait for the next one.
Awesome, John Conner is becoming the leader he is meant to be. I was totally surprised by how much he knew, and here I thought he was beginning to become a leader. John Conner continues to surprise me, I just wonder if we have seen the last of Jesse.
Love it! Favorite show keeps getting better. John&Cam! lol. keep the eps coming!!!
Man that was and x-lent epp well done
This episode was AMAZING. Thomas was brilliant.
Wow. WOW.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear in my last post. I thought John was just a wayward teen, he is truly the leader he was meant to become.
Powerful episode…..loved it.
Best episode of television I’ve seen in a long while. Loved the interaction between John and Derek, and the John v. Jesse confrontation just blew me away! I’m so excited to see the next episode!
Wow! The tension was incredible. The pace and texture of the episode was kept me in knots throughout the hour.
John showed a coldness and cynicism this week that behavior was tempered by the emotional loss of Riley. The final scene with him sitting between the two ‘women’ in his life and finally going back to ‘momma’ was touching.
Without a doubt the best episode of the series.
this season was all about taking whatever was left of john’s virginity (figure of speech) and turning him into a leader. he’s killed a man, lost a loved one, and now he let the murderer of his loved one go but not before telling her (and the rest of us) that he had been on to them for a while now. I especially loved how he identified Riley’s “mistakes” and making Jesse’s master plan look like a ten year old’s map to school. I knew JF was going to do something to score some sympathy points with Jesse but killing an innocent girl to make up for the loss of your child, and your shipmates, won’t bring them back. I’m glad Derek learned the truth, it’ll let him grow from this experience and how people can surprise you.
“You’re here to keep her away from him!” — Jesse to Riley
And John STILL wouldn’t have been able to all along. But what about the whole join us thing? Was he asking for peace with the machines? And then the T1000 would jump out and tell him no by cutting his head off? Need to think on that one.
And then yet another question what would’ve been derek’s response if he had known that Jesse lost their baby? But then I guess some things are better left unknown.
Love you Summer!
“Edit Button”
And still John wouldn’t have destroyed Cameron
Was I the only one who teared up when John laid his head in Sarah’s lap?
Derek did kill Jesse, right?
So who else figures John knows where Ellison goes, also?
This Captcha thing is cracking me up sometimes
Frozen Queens
really?
starkiller, I was really close to tearing up lol
OK, it wasn’t this Derek’s baby.
Ever since Complications I’ve been waiting for another copy of Derek to show up. The one whose baby it was.
This ep made me get all tingly, course that could’ve been the Fosters I was drinkin’, in honor of Jesse of course, but it really answered questions and moved me. I’m a bit confused about some people’s ie hoyt’s comment about not being enough action, i’ve just got to say that with both humans and a machine getting Terminated that’s definitely not a complaint of mine. Looking forward to next episode. Cameron’s answer… I wonder if there’s any truth to what she said in “Allison from Palmdale” about renegade machine factions I dismissed it at the time as a tactic to gain Allison’s trust but maybe it was based on fact?
Great episode with a very human story. Without showing the human side of the characters (Cameron included) the series would just be gunfights and robo-porn. Great acting by all, but particularly by TD. Great scene with John and Derek. Great scene with John crying on his mother lap while Cameron sits as still as a statue. I don’t think Derek killed Jesse and that we can look for her in the future ( which I’m convinced we will have next year). Pity things are due to go hell in a hurry for Sarah and Co.
Sure there might be a anti-Skynet faction. But like the German generals who tried to kill Hitler, their goal isn’t peace its to run the war more effectively.
Best episode in a long time…and for those who are still wanting more, if you haven’t seen the 4 minute trailer that Friedman released at WonderCon in San Fran last month, look it up. I hope these final 6 episodes will be enough to get a 3rd season…hate to see it end when it is just finding its groove.
By the way, my captcha code is “$20 LOVING” . WTF?
OMG!OMG!OMG! I see why Hadley was raving about this episode.
It is beyond great. I gotta go watch it again now.
Someone should make a blog about the “Women of Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles” I think that would bring in huge hits :).
Wow. I thought that Farscape was the best show in tv. Tonight proved me wrong. What a great show. Of course, since I love it so much it will have to be cancelled. Summer was great in Firefly and I was so sad to have it end. Now she is amazing in Terminator. Get the word out so this show is not taken off of the air. All of the cast are amazing.
Hoyt - start Terminating? More action? You mean more action like a chick getting impaled? A Lieutenant getting his head clanged against a wall so hard brain juice leaks out his nose holes? Captain Chrome catching a plasma bolt to the dome?
You know, after Derek’s reveal to Jesse, I kinda wanna see a flashback episode about “Wisher.”
A serious contender for my favorite episode ever. Not a single dull scene. Each one had me literally on the edge of my seat.
When I saw the liquid metal, and later when it talked about an alliance (btw I’m pretty sure it escaped)
With Jesse being pregnant
With John apoligising to Cameron in front of Sarah
With John’s confrontation with Jesse (INTENSE scene). John is quite smart and I’m very impressed.
With Derek and Jesse in the parking garage. When I realised what was about to happen, my eyes bugged and I shot up like a dart, jaw dropped as I watched the commercials come and then screamed.
Then at the end with Sarah John and Cameron on the couch and John begins to cry. I noticed that he was closer to Cameron, but then he leaned on Sarah’s lap as Cameron just watched. (Great acting in this one btw TD-not just this scene but the whole ep). I had thought that this ep made him look more like the leader hes destined to be, but then he cried. But later I realised that that is a human trait and that doesn’t make him a weak leader, but a human one.
11/10 guys, fantastic job. Especially TD, amazing performance.
LOVED this episode!!
I’m sooo happy to see that John believes Cameron now.. I figured he would after he saw Riley’s body but, seeing him apologize to Cameron made my night.
Hah, and did you see the look on Sarah’s face!
Wow.. So John knew about everything! When Jessie walked into her hotel room and John was sitting there my jaw dropped to the floor…
That talk he had with Jessie was amazing, that’s the future leader of mankind that I like to see. I must say he’s pretty damn smart, I wouldn’t have guessed that he picked up on their scheme that early. I also loved the he just let her go, telling her to live with the guilt instead of killing her.. I give John major credit points for all of this.. he’s way smarter than I originally thought.
John Henry… can I tell you how much I love him?
The things he’s learning is getting interesting.. So is Weaver planning to kill Ellison? It sure looks like it. Which makes me wonder what John Henry will do if I comes to that.. Since it looks like he considers Ellison his friend.
The whole liquid metal in the box was crazy.. and that answer “no.” Looks like John was trying to form some kind of alliance? Seems like there may be other factions other than just Skynet and the Resistance. Hmm.. this is something to think about.
Oh, and I LOVED how Cameron told Jessie that talking to her is the same as talking to John Connor- this just proves that they must have been very close in the future.
John crying at the end was really touching… shows that he’s not cold hearted and does care. I also thought it was cool how he had both Cameron and Sarah with him on both sides..
Ohh and on another note, it looks like Cameron’s alright with the birdies now.. that made me happy to see =]
All in all, AMAZING episode! Can’t wait till next week!
These episode’s just keep getting more intense! I’m loving every second of them!
I had the same thought Nick. Jesse may have saved JC’s life by not delivering the box. Since the answer was “no” the mpa terminator could have taken Connor out right after delivering the message. In some ways Jessie seems like a tragic hero who flipped out after learning about the fate of her child. I guess Jessie wanted to kill the messenger. It’s not like Cam was on the boat kicking her in the gut.
Very good ep and well acted. I too liked all of the scenes with Derek and JC. However, this episode violated Snakes First Law of Thermodynamics. At least 10 minutes of Cameron per episode are required.
This show rocks! I can’t believe they moved it to Friday night though. There is no way they will garner the ratings they need to stay on the air. Switch it to Tuesday or Wednesday and focus on John, Sarah, Cameron and Derek. Need a little more action too. Get rid of Manson and the FBI agent arc…..it’s terrible. I love this show please keep the episodes coming.
The maid who straightened the lamp. Jesse in the future? Jesse’s mother in the past?
I still can’t figure out if Derek dropped the hammer on Jessie. You could see the flexors working on the trigger in the close up but without hearing the shot it’s hard to tell what exactly happened. I’ve watched it twice now and I can’t quite decide. Damn, another question.
That’s an interesting thought Seneca. I noticed the lamp straightening but I never considered it might be Jessie.
Ha Jesse! thats right even if your plan did work john still wouldn’t have killed her!
This was one of my all time favorites because it answered alot of questions and showed that alot of things had been said like Cameron not killing the bird ,and john crying on his mother after realizing that if he cried on Cameron she would not have done what Sarah did. which is sad because i am a huge jameron fan! and nice thinking Seneca i didn’t even think of that.
Guys, I really appreciate this episode. I lost three babies to miscarriage, and so often, a woman’s pain over this is totally white-washed, prodded, downplayed, over-spiritualized, or just ignored. Here’s a sampling of some of the asinine comments I’ve received:
“Aren’t you glad it wasn’t a baby yet?”
“It must have been God’s will.”
“At least you already *have* a beautiful child.”
“You can always try again later.”
The metal was at least compassionate enough to Jesse to just say, “I’m sorry for your loss.” Thank you, writers, for acknowledging that it is a loss, and that the pain can be enough to make you want to change the very fabric of time.
I will say that I now have *two* beautiful children. Since #2 was actually #5, I often comforted myself with the thought, “Number five is alive, number five is alive.”
Yes, I’m a goober-headed geek.
I loved the confrontation with the sub captain. Hell… the entire episode was brilliant.
Amazing! Excellent episode!
I think Weaver figures Ellison for John Henry’s first ‘intentional’ kill.
This was the best episode ever made… for now.
I cannot even begin to imagine how insane the season finale will be.
PURE WIN
Thomas Dekker should really get an award for that. I wanted to applaud to my television after that scene with Jesse. Amazing! Plus, it was nice to finally sit down with John Henry in a clip that ran longer than 15 seconds. That said, I hope there are more cast/crew tidbit posts on here next week than there were this week… I can’t wait another seven days!
Unlikely Seneca that that is Jessie, or her mother. She was in Australia before J-day, atleast to our knowledge
I have been unhappy with the show this whole year no action and this episode is more like terminator but please no soap box . I thought that the terminator never sleeps he can’t be bought he will not stop until you are dead where are the terminators . cameron kick some serious butt no wonder she is twitching cause he needs to kill lol please before its too late writers no more drama tonight finally they are thinking again sarah is sad , john and riley poor cameron realizing how they are all asleep but tonight you almost redeemed yourself good show.
Chris, nose bleeds and finger pointing, how about Heads crushed, Machine guns blazing, car chases, and running for your life. Okay yes there was a little more terminating in this episode and the plot has thickend somewhat but overall the show seems to lack the essence of the original movies. I just want to see more thoughless machine violence, this in the original movies gave man kind a more underdog feel and everything they were working for was that much more intense and on edge. I want to see red eyes glowing, muzzles flashing and John and Sarah running for their lives. I want to be on the edge of my seat. If I wanted love stories and mind games I would watch the Bachelor, Ghost Whisperer or some other chic show. Terminator has become an okay show but it has the ability to be a great show. Wait and see if the production doesn’tt step up to the plate and offer the viewers what the Terminator is known for, the show will be cancelled. This would be very sad because the people involved with the production of this show are sitting on something that alot of us have been waiting since the 80’s to see and it would be a shame for them to waste it.
EXCELLENT episode. I don’t even know what else to add.
And no to the people asking if they were the only one who teared up at the ending scene. Add me to that group, please.
BAG plays a great soldier. I loved the way he played the part when he drew down on Jessie. The conflict in him was palpable. Very well done.
Yes! John F’n Conner!!! Loved this ep. One of the best ones yet. Such great dialog and drama between John and Jesse and then John and Derek. The future scenes too… so much good stuff! Oh there better be multiple seasons of this show…
Seneca, yes, I was wondering about the lamp, too…a very strange scene. It must have some significance or why would they have shown it?
It is obvious that Derek pulled the trigger, but the click was the sound of a misfire…and he got to the hotel room with no indications of having taken time to dispose of a body. So, what do you think he meant when he told John that “John Connor let her go”? Was it fate that his gun misfired, or was it something that Future John may have arranged?
Fantastic episode. Answered a lot of questions. still not sure if jesse is deas or alive ? What does everyone think ?
This show is one of my favorites of all time. Hell, I don’t even watch much tv but never miss an episode. I ask around, but nobody I know watches it. The friday slot should help. The latest was One of the best eposides ever. The only episode that I can really say was stupid to me was the one where cameron turns human in the grocery store and gets amnesia. It made no sense. It’s not the actions of a machine, and messed with my suspension of disbelief. Maybe future episodes will explain it better. I get the feeling that cameron has a completely different agenda that she is not telling people about. Since john only speaks to her in the future, there are many weird plot possibilities. Maybe he is in love with her. Maybe she controls him, or has killed him outright and assumed control of his misson. She seems to be acting on his future wishes, while keeping it secret from everyone in the present, but it can’t be known for sure. And the present john must not destroy or leave her because she likely has information that will save his life between now and the future where he sends her back. Everyone on this board seems to love cameron, and she’s easy on the eyes and makes my knickers fit tighter, but I think she might be more evil than everyone thinks when all is said and done;)
John Henry is the best.
First he was into Bionicles, which was somewhat awesome, given that they’re the lowest form of LEGO (in my opinion). Now he’s painting miniatures? I love John Henry! John Henry needs a statue or something. I would pay to see John Henry do what he does best: enthrall fans of T:TSCC with his geeky, yet lovable ways.
John is a misdirected soul. He kissed Riley when he left her room in the hospital, yet he gave her no quarter during the, “Today is the day,” conversation. He could have said, “Riley, I know what’s going on, and I still care for you. I still want you. I believe that you’re caught up in something not of your own making, and it’s tearing you apart. Hence, the bandages on your wrists.” It would have saved her, but he didn’t. John’s failure to save Riley when he could have will haunt him forever. Frankly, it should. He wanted desperately to save a stranger from jumping off the roof of his school, but then let go of Riley when she needed him the most. Demons like that sink their claws deeply into the subconscious, and destroy from within. Riley’s death was also John’s death, forever separating him from the chance of another relationship.
John (and Derek) let Jesse live. She may have gone to the future to serve John Connor; to atone, to fight the machines with him, even take care of him and his spartan living quarters. She may clean and cook for him, straighten papers and lamps., and listen to him cry when the demons visit.
Great episode, greatly reduced my angst toward all the previous drama. Even though it was more drama, it was good enough to hold a terminator fan like me and finally answered some questions that were important to my continued enjoyment of this show. It no longer feels like were moving forward into vast nothingness or stupidity, at least for now. I was bummed Sarah is still after Cam after John clearly gave Cam the benefit of the doubt right in front of her. Time for John to lay down the law with Sarah or send her packing with Jessie, but I guess we need some friction. Anyway thanks for a good episode and making my time invested in the seasons worth it.
LOVED:
John and Jesse scene, it was so powerful.
The complication scene between John and Derek.
Derek’s and Jesse’s scene (when he nearly killed her) was amazing.I knew once he put his finger on the trigger they would go to commercial. I yelled and my smart butt friend said, “what did you expect?”
When John was crying on Sarah’s lap, very powerful.
TD was at his best.
Did I mention I lost it when the maid fixed Jessie’s lamp?
As usual I loved JH and Ellison.
I swear the liquid metal is Weaver.
I think in the future John knows they will open the box and he plans the whole thing or part of it with Queeg (he plays a good term btw)
I loved The Tower is Tall, at the end with Bear’s score and showing all the characters, this ending reminded me of that.
This show has some amazing episodes and just when I think they’ve already done their best, they just keep on getting better.
Also, can somebody post the lyrics to the song that was playing during the Jesse/Derek scene?
Love it. LOVED IT. The best acted and written episode of the season. Action? Who needs action. Well, I do. But, great drama like this, more than makes up for the lack of action. Holy Sh**. Fox better renew this series.
Best ep of the series, IMO, and I hope this gives Fox good reason to know what TSCC is capable of: already one of the best written shows on TV, and destined to become one of the most popular ones.
If JC can learn to be human, then maybe we can too! Peace.
You are invited to join us on the official TSCC wiki where we’re discussing whether Cameron is posing as JC and giving orders to both man and machine; and whether Weaver is a rogue T-1000 that became dissapointed in human’s dealing with their metal captain, and went back to past to change something she deems important.
Lots of other ideas, and a movement to get TSCC high on Digg.com, which could get us millions of people aware of show (I’m told). Now that we have good eps to present viewership could increase.
Hasta!
amazing episode! one of my favorites for sure! seeing john become john connor is amazing, and the way he dropped the bomb shell to jessie!
my only question is, if he sends robots to do jobs because human life is so precious, why does he isolate himself from other humans so much in the future?
and was the t-100x in the submarine the same one that became weaver?
i love JH and ellison and weaver (as usual). everyone did a great job on the episode. i was a little sad sarah didn’t have a bigger role, but again it was nice to see john step into his future leader role more–not to mention find comfort in his mom instead of cameron.
AWESOME work this ep. I can’t wait to see how this gets wrapped up! I’m surprised that nobody mentioned the Robr Patrick-esque finger shaking by the T1K! Prototype? Yes, the liquid T escaped. They showed it swimming toward the surface as the J.C. imploded. Thank GOD we got to see J.C. show some brains! I actually felt sorry for Jesse there at the end, too.
The second half of TITD (or for those of you at home reading, “ti-ted”) was much more potent than the first half.
Though, only for the sake of more viewers, I would have liked just a tad more intensity on the sub, I did think the dramatic aspects of this episode stood out as some really good and sometimes poignant writing.
I wish they had hinted at Jesse’s motivations a little sooner so we wouldn’t have ganged up on her so hard (like Riley), but that still doesn’t let her off the hook for the terrible, awful things she did as a result of her frakked up mind.
And as for John… great to see him find a bit of a brain. And I did feel a bit sorry for the bloke at the end of the episode. I just wish Sarah weren’t so pissy all the time.
However, I think showing him as such a moron during all these parts where he “supposedly” was putting things together seems to really be making his declarations of intelligence into question.
He also seems and still seems (because you never brought it up in the writing) far too eager to get upset over Sarkissian’s death at his hands than the deaths of all those other folk (like on his jaunt to Mexico) due to his POOR and SELFISH and DICKISH actions because of his Riley obsession and wanting to give the raspberries to Sarah and Cameron.
You writers came to John’s rescue in this episode, seemingly, as if to say: oops! we f–ked up his character for most of S2. Never mind all that. We were only joking.
Just don’t let it happen again. Please.
Though it looks like the family dynamic is really taking a header right off the cliff in these last episodes… I really wish that it had not been so severe.
Family is everything. It gives us strength. It gives us resolve. It gives us a helping hand. It gives us…
Hope.
Being alone doesn’t always solve anything. Thinking you’re alone in the world and no one is there to help you… that is bad place to be.
I wish Season 3 were more hopeful that way: More teamwork, more togetherness. As if they figure things out, get right with themselves and the world, for a couple episodes and things get put in motion to bind them all back together in a stronger and more loving and caring way.
It can’t be all doom and gloom. As Ashley rightly pointed out with the deleted scenes from T1 (they speak a lot to James Cameron’s thinking processes for the story), that there must be a REASON we (humans and some machines) are fighting to stop Judgment Day.
Again, think on it.
I love the small details…
Jesse asks John if her plan would have worked, he says “Would I have sent Cameron away? Would I have killed her?”
First he didn’t jump to kill. He said sent away and then kill. And second, he said kill, not destroy. Those that see terminators as simply machines use the word destroy, but John perceives them as living and views Cameron as a person, not thing.
I love that this show makes these characters seem like real people. People keep complaining that this show doesn’t have meaningless action. Are you kidding? Meaningless action is nowhere near as fulfilling as this. And when they do have action, that too needs to have meaning and a purpose. If all they ever did was fight and run, it would get old real fast. This show doesn’t talk down to the audience and I just hope that it doesn’t fail because of that.
Every scene was beautifully acted by the whole cast. I don’t know how amazing cast + intelligent writing + intriguing premise = bad ratings. It’s such a shame when intelligent show like Arrested Development, Futuruama, and Firefly don’t get the credit they deserve… until it’s too late. I hope Fox renews this amazing show to give it a proper chance to find it’s audience…. and maybe give it a better night next season?
In a word…WOW. I am glad John is not the naive teenager anymore. That ep was brilliantly put together. There was so much content and it is amazing how you guys packed that much detail into a 43 minute show. The whole sequence with John and Jesse was excellent. There has GOT to be a season 3.
Yea..I think “powerful” sums up what everyone is saying.
I’m just guessing..that the weaver in the box..is the current weaver in the future and not vis versa. The finger waving..seemed a lot more human than her behavior in the present. I’m guessing that the box weaver has had more time to develop?
Then again..people’s remarks about her saying “humans will disappoint you” does suggest that the box weaver comes from the future after the events of the sub.
I dunno. But good episode.
Also… why is everyone so sure that Derek let Jesse live? When John asked Derek “Did you do it? Did you kill her?” He replied “John Conner let her go.” To me that implied that he did kill her, but that it wasn’t John’s fault because John let her go. John Conner let her go… and he’s not John Conner. Maybe I’m wrong on that, but that’s what I got from it.
Wow. Interesting how one of the best episodes of the series so far has so little Sarah Connor. I think even though it’s titled TSCC, it’s the ensemble that really makes the show. There was so much nuance in this episode. Now we know so many things. Why Jesse did what she did. How the hell did the writers turn her into a sympathetic character? Wow. So many broken people in this one too. The ending scene was amazing. John was absolutely due for a breakdown. When Derrick was laying it all on him, I’m wondering how the hell he is going to handle pressure like that? In the end, mom is family. Cameron is metal. Just beautiful on so many levels… Can’t wait for next week, and FOX, PLEASE give us another season!!!
somekindarobit–even though they didn’t really indicate how much time passed, it seems to me derrick wouldn’t have had time to kill her and properly dispose the body before meeting john in the hotel room…
That was the strongest episode in weeks, and one of the best of the series.
Jessie managed to both look sexy in a bathing suit and to break my heart with her humanity (at the same time)…not an easy thing to do after all she things she’s done.
The tension of this episode was extraordinary.
Summer was lovely as always, and well used, so even if there wasn’t a lot of her in this episode, all that there was could really *count.* And of course, it was the old trick: Even when she wasn’t onscreen the others were so often talking about her or thinking about her, who and what she is, that I didn’t miss her…very much.
One thing I wondered about: If the soldiers had not opened the box, would “the answer” have been any different? Or would the liquid T have just tried to kill future John?
Speaking of John, with all due respect: F&#& Christian Bale. John Connor is *Thomas Dekker*, dammit.
Sentences I never thought I’d see myself type: Brian Austin Green was great. He (and the writers, etc) left me wondering whether or non Jessie would survive…and whether or not I wanted her to.
And that ending (John crying on Sarah’s lap)…that ending.
What I’m saying is, this episode made me very, very, very happy.
another point/question–if the liquid terminator in the box had intended to say no in the beginning, wouldn’t have killed everyone which would be a very resounding no? perhaps the terminator observed the behavior of the crew and was “disappointed” by the humans which led to it’s decision?
I understand why they had John go to his mother for comfort but I think it would have been a great moment if Cameron had at least placed a hand on his shoulder or something rather than just staring off into space. A small subtle gesture at that point would have been an amazing character developement for Cameron. I’m not slamming the writers here, but I was sure she was going to do something when John broke down and then nothing happened. Oh well.
SKR, I’m leaning toward your way of thinking on this one. I think he did kill her now that I’ve watched it 4 times. But I wouldn’t place a bet on it.
Maybe like John with Cameron (sparing her even if she had killed Riley)…
Derek did the same with Jesse.
Perhaps it’s not the last we’ll be seeing of ol’ messed up, killer Jesse.
More questions to hopefully be solved in S3.
And Cameron… maybe, just maybe… showing some concern for Jesse with the loss of her baby.
Cameron doesn’t seem to have grasped the BIGGER and OVER ARCHING picture of empathy yet, but perhaps in fits and starts she shows it in small doses to individual people, when she sees them in need.
She didn’t know the people who died on the sub, so it didn’t cross her mind to say something about them, but she knew JESSE and she singled out a kind word of sympathy. And she answered Jesse’s query about what the question to the answer the T-1001 gave was. She didn’t have to.
Good to see some positive instances of growth and awareness.
In a word: fantastic! I never lost my faith in you guys, but it’s great to have tangible evidence that you guys are the baddest cats writing on television today. This is my favorite John Connor episode for sure. All the stars have had their chance to shine. What a great cast. Such great writing. The payoff is well worth the wait. We need a season 3 for sure.
As for Jesse… she’s lost it.
I had said waaaaaaaaaay back when that wouldn’t it be cool if there was a juxtaposition of the typical character roles?
A basically decent human loses the ability to be humane, to have “humanity.”
At the same time a killer cyborg gains it.
lindsay,
I thought that too, but also thought its not her goal to just kill humans, or maybe she found them useful. Like to drive the sub or deliver the message to John, I doubt John would have opened the box himself anyways, he would have gotten someone or something to do it for him.
I’m speechless…
There were moments I felt “inside” this episode. I felt what the characters felt, I held my breath, and even I almost cried with the final scene. So many strong emotions so well played. Great actors and actresses. Great writing. Great directing. Great music. Great minds. Great sensitivity. The greatest show ever.
Thank you so much!
phasee–that’s a good point. i don’t know…there’s something more there though…i just can’t figure out what it is (but the show wouldn’t be worth watching if we could point out how things were going to end up way before they happened anyway).
we need a 3rd season!!! come on fox, you’ve already axed 2 of my all-time favorite shows prematurely (arrested development/firefly)–give TSCC a chance!
Yes Logan I will admit TD did a great job on this one. His character had been frustrating the hell out of me but he really stepped up in this one. Every scene he was in shined in this episode. His demeanor was that of a leader. I was impressed with the way he made you believe in him through his actions and manner of speech. A superb performance.
SEASON 3! SEASON 3! SEASON 3!
As much as we want to know what everything means, we probably wouldn’t watch it if they didn’t raise so many questions and keep us glued to our seats.
HA HA my challenge was Queeg!
I almost cried one man tear.
Almost.
@Dan Hitchman..I don’t think future Cameron knows Jesse. Future Cameron is created based off the future Allison. The present Cameron never makes it to the future. Future John is with the freshly created Cameron.
I don’t think that’s right Jue Kai. Cameron has all of the memories that prove this is the Cameron JC sent back from the future. She ies the same one who interacted with Jessie in 2027.
overall I liked the ep, for what it was it was well done.
I think what hoyt was saying is the show was very low key and relaxed, even john was low key and relaxed, they all were, this was a dramatic ep not a action ep.
I think john should have went to his room and cried alone, might have been better, than with his mom.
I also wanted john to kill jesse, it is what she expected and wanted. and then not seeing if derek really killed jesse , seems like he didnt and she will be back.
the scene with cam and the bird ?? does that mean her hand/chip is ok now?
the only reason for that would be cause john said he was sorry and they are now “tight ” again?? so it was a psychological problem ? LOL
I and others were right that it was liquid metal in box, and this I think was weaver, who had requested a face to face meeting with JC and because the box was opened by the crew and they tried to kill it by sinking the sub…. they “disappointed “her so her answer , was no . If it had been done like john ordered she would have said yes, but the “humans will disappoint you”.
john henry and weaver scene was good, but for most part we saw that in preview.
still waiting for JH and savanh to sing !
I have to agree that this was one of the better eps of the season 2, and is the best of the last 8 eps we have seen.
john…..his best ep of the season, and TD did a good job, but all of the cast do a good job if they have something good to work with.
sarah… what are you doing with sarah,? ?
derek … he is back now…..finally
cam … she is ok now?
JH…still seems like a good boy !
Weaver….. has her own agenda and was the one in the box?
jesse ….dead or alive ? still wants revenge or learned her lesson??
Lamp…. whats the deal on the lamp, the maid moved it too.
one good thing about this ep it gives us plenty to talk about.
GREAT JOB!
awesome episode, the show is better right now
we need another season please!
Awesome!! I love terminator SCC, no other show keeps me watching..
t5000 you are so right about the episode giving us plenty to talk about!
part of me wanted john to kill jessie–or at least punch her a bit, but i think it would have undermined his argument for having sent machines back in time to protect him (basically that humans are irreplaceable).
T5000, that’s a really good explanation of the possibility that Weaver was in the box. Some of you guys have really “thought this through”.
I think the maid was moving the lamp, because she didn’t like where Jesse had moved it! I bet they both moved the lamps on a regular basis. It really shows that we(humans) feel the need to create order from the chaos around(or in Jesse’s case, from within). Coming from a future and a career where she never lost her cool(on the outside at least) - moving the lamp WAS Jesse freaking out.
I think the T1K is Robert Patrick’s version!
Wolfie,
I like that, order from chaos.
But as someone who only lasted a week as a maid, If your not being watched then you try to cheat and relax. So why was she making everything perfect? Cause it was a fancy Hotel? Cause the boss is on her butt? Although he would be picky about the bed or the bathroom, not a lamp. Also, she seemed like she wanted to do it. Doing that kind of work all the time is tiring, what’s wrong with her? I’m even friends with a maid who does her job and everything, especially cleaning the restrooms, but other times shes always on the phone. They don’t get paid much and if they have any sense they will do what they need to do to keep their job and nothing more.
Excellent episode! What a way to tie up some lose ends. Great build up!
Hmm Maybe the liquid metal terminator was a T-999? lol
I noticed they scored the scene with the Catherine Weaver theme, but that could be a general liquid metal theme in the series as well.
Hooroo.
Great episode, great acting, great story telling! Thanks!!!
Wow, I liked Thomas Dekker performance tonight. The confrontation between Jesse and John was incredible. It was nice when John gave a retrospective of is life and a reference to T1 and T2 films.
We need a season 3 just like that! It is the right formula. Finally, the Connor family is back together and ready to kick some metal’s ass!
Hooroo EJ.
Better luck next time.
That ep was the awesome. (I downloaded it and the BSG finale and watched TSCC first.)
I’m relieved that the boy has finally shown he has a clue. (Fingers crossed there’s no back-sliding!)
It is clear, IMHO, that John was right to try and get Riley to come over to him, rather than Jesse, by confessing to him in the manner of the opportunity he gave her. He could never be sure Riley was on his side, rather than Jesse’s, unless he knew Riley made an unforced choice - to do the right thing. She didn’t and she paid the price. It’s not that John didn’t save Riley - it was that he couldn’t save her. That’s why he was crying. It may have been, for instance, that he took the enormous risk of taking Riley to Mexico to get her away from Jesse and Cameron to give her a chance to open up. However - thanks to Sarah’s mistakes - Cromartie rather put a crimp on that.
Riley was to blame for Riley’s death and had the major part of the blame for it because at any time she could have done the right thing and put a stop to Jesse’s plan. Perhaps both her and Jesse would be alive if Riley had done that and everyone had talked the situation through. Neither Derek nor John wanted to kill Jesse and certainly not Riley (even though Derek had to kill Riley in the end because she had proven herself to be far to dangerous to everyone to be left alive).
I was worried Derek wouldn’t do what I knew he should do - both from the POV of his character and from the point of view of the right thing to protect John and the mission - but he did it, he killed Jesse. When Derek said, “John Connor let her go” he was telling John that he was taking the responsibility for killing Jesse and John had no responsibility to stop him. (It’s a shame we won’t get to see Stephanie in a swimsuit some more tho! She’s gorgeous and then some!) Derek is awesomely badass and will get the job done whatever it takes. That’s what a battle-hardened soldier is like.
I’m going with the theory it was the Weaverbot in the box (I’m still liking my idea that Terminators are, or can be, some kind of hive mind due to wireless networking when operating at full capacity) and a machine faction has goals that would enable coexistence and cooperation between humans and that machine faction against Skynet. But Weaverbot saw humans as too unreliable, thanks at least in part to the events on the Jimmy Carter, and calculated that it was strategically better to not to form an alliance.
It appeared to me that Cameron was holding the pigeon in her functional hand, prior to holding it in the malfunctioning hand as a test. The plethora of bird corpses suggest this is a regular feature of Cameron’s routine. Cameron is still malfunctioning. Apart from that, we badly need a resolution to the questions raised by “Alison From Palmdale.” And a Season 3, of course.
I’m brain fried from all the fun scifi. Need sleep…now. My first thoughts: http://cjcs.com/tib/2991/ttscc-0219-today-is-the-day-part-2/
Wow. Great JC ep.
John…it looked to me like Cam was holding it in both hands…perhaps using the right hand as a safety (for the hapless bird) in case the left started acting up.
And, IMHO, the final scene was a great payoff. Sarah comforting John and Cameron sitting there, unmoved, unable to provide the emotional support that John needs because she’s the metal.
@CJ
Screencaps here: http://www.summer-glau.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=291&pos=49
Cameron’s left hand is the twitchy one. In the screencaps it looks to me the way I thought of it when I saw the video, that she’s holding it mostly in her right hand and is about to transfer control of it to her left hand, fingers from her right hand are underneath those from her left hand.
Doh! I meant “Derek had to kill Jesse” not Riley, @March 21st, 2009 at 2:11 am
Nice conclusion to Part 1. The pacing felt better in this one. Still very slow moving and respectable to the situation the characters are in.
It felt like this part of the story not only talked about the Allison-from-palmdale-episode-clue about a truce with a faction of the machines. Whether the metal on the sub were from that faction remains to be seen.
I liked how Derek commented on John and his humanity, referring to Jesse’s statement how future-John has become more isolated. This episode also seemed to talk about grief. (The entire series feels like a funeral sometimes - but in a good way. Death should have consequenses.)
The grief theme were used in different ways in the story - even the motive for Jesse to use Riley to “humanize” John comes from her losing her baby. Jesse anguish and guilt for killing Riley maybe became grief in its own way. I liked how Derek commented on John and his humanity. And of course John’s different degree of moarning in the two episodes - which showed that he hasn’t yet forgotten how it is like to be human.
I still don’t think Derek pulled the trigger. She’ll be back.
Oh, I’m just crying like John does.
This episode was a long time coming. It’s too bad there is so much filler between killer.
John Henry, I mean John Pete,
That post is so sad because I agree except I don’t think Derek killed Jesse, (btw I thought Jesse was wearing a Sarah Connor tank top at first, till they showed the bathing suit) I think Derek followed his commanders orders. Yeah, I think that was Weaver in the box, but knowing this show, they’ll probably surprise us. Yeah, Cam is still malfunctioning and has issues and we’ll see how that plays out(we might need a third season for that though)So everyone Clamor! Clamor! Clamor! We need some hustler’s here, they know how to work it.
Was this episode perfect: no.
But is was totally human.
Thank you all.
So future John wanted to join with the machines against SKYNET,right?
I’m at a loss for words. Frakkin’ amazing episode. Never felt the time go by =)
Thoughts about Jesse…
I can understand why John would want to kill Jesse. He loved Riley in spite of the fact that she wasn’t honest with him. He was hurt and angry at what Jesse did to Riley and probably wanted to kill her out of anger and revenge, but he thought better of it and let her go. He knew that living with her guilt would be punishment enough.
What I CANNOT understand is why Derek would want to kill Jesse. He is smart enough to understand that Jesse did what she did because she thought she was protecting John Connor. She needed to show JC that he could not trust metal, EVER. Her motives were noble in her mind and if Riley had to be sacrificed to accomplish her mission then it was worth it, in her way of thinking. She did not act out of evil motives, but out of noble ones. Jesse sees the big picture and is trying to save mankind from the machines. She is not JC’s enemy. People do what they think they have to do for the good of the future. Is her thinking a little screwed up?…absolutely. But evil she’s not.
I will echo everyone im saying that Dekker gave an icredible performance (Jacobsen too). I loved the “I AM John Connor!” scene, and the strong-willed, intelligent, decisive behavior that led up to it. Looks like John is now well on his way to becoming the leader of men.
Can’t wait to find out if there are indeed multiple factions amongst the machines in the future, and whether the T-1000 has a connection to, or *is* Weaver. Did Jesse’s crew save future-John’s life by opening the box?
There was *so* much great plot and character development in this ep. Kudos to all involved!
@snake
That’s exactly what I was saying. Dan was saying the Cameron who lives with Future John knows Jesse. However, if that were true, it would be the 2007 Cameron survives with John past judgment day. However, since Allison dies to become Cameron in the future, I’m making the assumption that that the 2 Camerons never meet and 2007 Cameron dies somewhere along the way toward J-Day. I guess it also implies that John knew Allison would die and be captured and had to let it happen so Cameron would be created?
I’m still unclear as to Jesse’s reason for wanting to separate Connor and Cameron.
It wasn’t the machines who caused her to lose the baby, it was the mutinous *human* crew kicking her on the ground.
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT!
Maybe we actually have a chance at season 3 afterall. John did look like a real leader for the first time. Not only did he confront Jesse, but he “ordered” Derek to let her go, and Derek “obeyed” John Connor. Remember, in a couple of episodes, Derek stated “we follow orders” and that “we die for John Connor.” Derek may not always agree with John, but he is a loyal soldier. I know Jesse will show up again and inform Derek she had been pregnant with their child. She almost told him, saying you have no idea what they have done to “us.”
This episode also gave me a better understanding as to why future John sends back the “metal”, specifically because they aren’t human and can’t die and “be gone forever.” John has talked about how too many “people” have died already. A few of you complained about John crying at the end. I think it showed his human side, and that although he will be the future leader of mankind, he still is human and has emotions, where metal doesn’t. John can’t lose the emotions, because if he does, does he become just like the metal? Even when Derek was talking to him about the future, he mentioned that we want to see you as human. We also can’t forget, he’s only 16 years old. I like the occasional “emotions”, because it keeps them grounded.
THAT’S WHAT YOU CALLED A LOT CAMERON? IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE US MORE, PLEASE DON’T PUT SUMMER IN THE PROMO, SO I CAN STOP WASTING MY TIME…
SORRY…
This episode was excelent! What about the ending? I’ve seen it 5 times and I still cry everytime I see it. Kudos to the writers and to the actors. ROCK ON!
EJ: Hooroo, no question.
Amazing job by Thomas, but we all knew what these actors could do, didn’t we? I know I did. Such a terrific cast.
I have to watch it again now. A couple questions I still have to think about. Additional viewings always help. Great show. The writers are amazing.
@Ben Varkentine: “One thing I wondered about: If the soldiers had not opened the box, would “the answer” have been any different? Or would the liquid T have just tried to kill future John?” — I’ve been thinking about this a lot. On the one hand, that is quite possible. The T100X may have been a diplomatic emissary and only killed that woman simply because it needed a physical entity to sample in order to communicate. When it did, it was surprised to find itself in unexpected surroundings; hence the finger waving and calculating that JC’s team could not be trusted in an alliance. On the other hand, I like the possibility that it was the very same prototype T1000 from T2, and the machines were playing JC such that the T1000 would kill him and assume his role (and Jesse was perhaps being loyal to JC and trying to do him a favor by making sure he didn’t trust machines so much in the future). In that case, the finger waving may have actually been a personality trait of that particular T100X, and having failed the mission to kill JC in the present, moved on to plan B?
@Michael Stat, I think Jesse’s issue was with statements like “telling me IS telling John Connor.” She seemed like one of the few people who was still willing to accept scrubbed machines as part of the team, but learned how dangerous it can be to let them run the show unquestioned. I like that she closed Queeg’s eyelids after she shot him… his new classified orders had made him a calculated threat, but she still respected him that much. Perhaps she understands all too well how future JC could let his guard down too much with Cameron “following [him] around”, and she is afraid that JC, the ranking human in the resistance, is losing control.
Bad and boring episode. Jesse is not interesting, Cameron is important. Please, more Cameron. Please.
What a fantastic episode. Great, great great! So much terrific things in here. The sub scenes were terrific, I felt sorry for the sub captain… he was just incapable of understanding what Jesse was trying to say. The machines are not fit to lead humans. Loved when she closed his eyes afterwards.
Also, damn John, you smart guy. When he was sitting in Jesse’s apartment I nearly fell of my chair. That scene was just great… followed by more greatness when confronted with Dereck. Did she die? Anyway I felt sorry for Jesse, and I never knew I would be capable of that… Great writing.
And JH and Ellison are becoming friends… Wonder how he would respond if someone would hurt Ellison… This show deserves a season 3 after the goodnes of the past few weeks.
ok, I’m gonna say 2nd best episode, because nothing can beat Samson & Delilah (Cameron telling John ‘I Love You’, Come on… only a kiss between the two can beat that!).
So yeah, I’m a Jameron, but I still really liked this episode. I absolutely loved the scene between John and Jesse. I would have never guessed that John knew about the whole Riley thing. Absolutely stunning…
Also loved the last scene where they all sat on the couch and John started to cry. That was really moving and just brilliant acting by Thomas Dekker! Naturally, as a Jameron, I was quite surprised that Cameron didn’t do more than just turn her head. Anyway, you can’t have everything…
I still have a question though: Do you think the writers gave us a hint regarding John Henry when they let him paint the eyes blue? Cameron’s eyes turned blue in the pilot and she’s one of the good guys.
Oh, and does anyone know the song that was playing in the Dereck/Jesse scene?
@ sNaKeBiTe
I think you are on to something about those blue eyes.
John Henry’s question deserves an answer. If eyes are the window to the soul, how can something with eyes not have a soul? The machines all have eyes, therefore…..
Even though this episode didn’t gave us much Summer Glau screentime, this was one of the best episodes of the series so far. It was actually quite an important turning point for Cameron, since they start to trust her again, at least John does. Him apologizing to her in front of his mother was a very powerful moment. So, I don’t see, why some Cameron fanboys here (and I’m a huuuuuuuge fanboy of Summer Glau) are complaining. This episode made me actually care about other things next to Cameron and that’s important. Cameron shouldn’t be the only reason to watch this show. Remember Firefly, anyone? River Tam was awesome, but still not the only reason to tune in. At some point in the future I’d like to say that about Terminator SCC, so keep the good storylines coming.
John really flashed me in this episode, he starts turning into the John Connor, we want to see and we need to see. I loved the scene with him and Jesse. But honestly, he should stop playing with that watch, that really freaks me out. And the concerns about John in the future are good ones. It really looks like Cameron is in charge there, maybe no one even knows, if John is still alive. It’s a far more interesting and compelling version of the future, you guys created here, than the version in the T3 and T4 movies. This is a version of the future you can’t show in upcoming the movies, because it would be pretty boring to hide the main protagonist all the time. It’s a nice idea, and I’m really curious how it will turn out. John being dead in the future and Cameron taken over to continue his work, because it was his last wish or something to make the people believe, he’s still alive and in charge, would be pretty mind blowing.
Arrhhh, gorramn it, one week until next episode and only four episodes left…
@sNaKeBiTe:
As I recall, the T-X in T3 had blue eyes too… Wasn’t such a nice girl as Cameron though. ^^
Talking about a T-X, I wonder if there’s going to be a T-X in the 3rd season of the show (and after this episode, I KNOW there’s going to be a third season, Fox would be as stupid as when they cancelled Firefly otherwise), since you actually never put any elements from the third movie into the show (which was a very good decision so far). But I would be pretty interested in more Terminator models, some creatures in the future for example or a T-X.
Great episode! Needs Season 3! Does anyone know what that song was playing during the Jesse/ Derek confrontation in The Last Voyage of The Jimmy Carter episode? Great song. Tell me please if you know. Thanks!
I really enjoyed this episode! I loved when John revealed how much he actually knew about Riley. The last scene with Derek and Jesse was really well done. John crying at the end broke my heart. I hated Riley, but I still feel sorry for John.
Anyway, great episode!
The U.S.S Jimmy Carter????
You have got to be kidding. The U.S. Military would never name one of their vessels after this idiot and coward.
To date, he is the worst president this country has ever seen. However, that distinction will soon be held by the anti-American/Socialist Obama. Another anti-military idiot that will never have a vessel named after him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter_(SSN-23)
When Jesse is looking at the bulletin board by the swimming pool, something interesting is on it. There is an ad for furniture, lamps, picture frames and school supplies. There is the lamp-thing again. At the bottom of the ad, it says, Copyright International Alliance of Artists and Craftspersons, all rights reserved 2005. What year was Jesse reading this board? Was it 2007? Could the ad have been up there two years?
It seems that few people would share Jesse’s extreme lamp fetish. That the maid at the end of the ep does in fact have this fetish must mean that the maid is Jesse, at some time well into the future. Any thoughts?
@ FL Broker - actually they did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter
FLBroker:
You and Snake would get along well together. LOL!
And Jimmy Carter is a smart man and is and was one of the finest statesmen we’ve ever had. Still sharp and in his 80’s.
T. Dekker did a fine job this episode, almost his best performance yet. Give him a good script and good direction more often.
They all did. Even Jesse had more “oomph.”
I just wish they had been better written and fleshed out and stronger THROUGHOUT the season. And yes, Season 2 did stumble and stagger around for quality and story.
As for Cameron… she would have spotted Jesse and known who she was IN THE PAST, but she never saw her in the present. Still didn’t. She knew her in the Future and that’s why I said Cameron AT THIS JUNCTURE seems to care on a more intimate level. If she doesn’t know you, it doesn’t register that she understands or sympathizes. But, if she does… then she starts saying that she cares.
That goes back to Riley… she knew her (in the present)… and even if she was a threat and she said she felt badly for her in the hospital. That’s why she couldn’t bring herself to outright kill her. The glitchy Terminator part did, but another side of Cameron wanted to let her go. Like the bird.
The TX in T3 having blue eyes means nothing. T3 does not exist.
The color blue probably signifies that there is a glimmer of a soul underneath Cameron, unlike Weaver.
Weaver needs to have JH and Ellison teach her about morals. She doesn’t understand them… and therefore JH states that there is nothing behind CW’s eyes.
Weaver IS the metal in the box. She got the wrong impression of humans by the Jimmy Carter crew. That’s why she said humans will disappoint you to JH.
Humans F’d up the works for John Connor’s attempt at a Detente with the metal resistance … NOT Cameron. Did you notice?
And guess who the LEADER of the metal resistance is? Catherine Weaver.
CW’s emissary is… CAMERON. That’s why they meet in a future episode.
John doesn’t know the ins and outs in the present… and may think (or Derek or Sarah) that Cameron IS the betrayer.
However, that leads SARAH to be the betrayer. She CLEARLY doesn’t understand what’s going on in reality and is quick to jump to conclusions… the WRONG conclusions.
Also, John Connor tells Jesse that humans can’t be replaced (like metals can) and are too valuable. Then he states he still WOULD NOT hurt Cameron. He has placed her on EQUAL footing to humans. She is irreplaceable.
That’s why Cameron tells Jesse that speaking to her is like speaking to John. Cameron sees that John sees her on an equal plane. And maybe she feels the same way.
Maybe that’s why she holds the bird WITHOUT killing it. John’s kind words about being sorry (all too brief) stabilized her glitch, for the moment. She was soothed and not agitated.
Remember too, when John and Cameron held hands she said she felt “different.”
This would also indicated, to me, that Cameron FEELS whereas Catherine Weaver, her boss… DOES NOT.
I had previously been disappointed that John didn’t seem to suspect Riley was from the future. I had suspected it from the first, when she mentioned foster parents on the way to Mexico I was pretty sure. I liked he took responsibility for Riley’s death, but that is probably one of the things that leads him to rely on metal so much in the future and pull away from humans. I do wonder why any of the others didn’t follow Riley to check her out.
I think Jesse blamed the machines for the loss of her baby because it was the fact that no human besides JC had the information about the box that set off the mutiny. I think the Cameron Jesse talked to in the future is the future of the present Cameron, or one possible future.
Episodes like these make me GLAD I still watch TSCC.
Now, if they can blend that solid and emotional drama and character development with more action and thrills and edge of your seat tension, for the folks who need more of it…
YOU WILL HAVE A WINNER OF A SEASON 3.
The recaptcha agrees with me…
I have to type in “birdland.”
But Jesse lost the baby because of humans…
Ah, the irony! She, like Sarah, placed her hatred at the feet of the WRONG person… Cameron.
Just like Catherine Weaver… she blames John Connor for the same stupid humans opening up
PANDORA’S BOX. That damned curiosity and that damned cat!
If she had been able to TALK to John Connor, face to face, in the Future she would have come to a different conclusion. SOME humans disappoint, like only SOME metal.
Catherine Weaver is like Sarah and Jesse.
And did you catch that FINALLY they’re writing liquid metal as a living organism?
It even SWIMS!!
Best episode of the season. Awesome from begining to the end. Really looking forward to the next weekend to know how the story continues!!! Let’s hope there’s a third season, this has been the best show in the past years!!!
And I meant Catherine Weaver (the “she” in my last entry… if CW had been allowed to travel all the way to John Connor’s doorstep unmolested, she might have had a different answer to John’s question.
And a different reply to John Henry.
Now, I’m going to go snarf some lunch and watch it again! Get those DVR numbers up.
I couldn’t agree more FLBroker. I remember the misery index from the Carter years and we’re headed back to that. The Carter does exist but there might be a reason they named a boat that sinks on purpose after him. Thankfully we had Reagan to repair the damage that the anti-semetic fool did. We’re going to need Reagan squared to counteract the fool we have now. I hope we make it 4 years.
I don’t know how much I’m going to like Sarah splitting up John and Cam. I hope that condition only lasts a week. Now that JC has learned to trust her again they can start working as a team to further the mission. I hope that next week, after Sarah tells John she doesn’t trust Cameron, John will put her in her place and let everyone know that he’s the one running the show.
Finally, a leader.
Snake,
You’ll NEVER see G.W. work with Habitat for Humanity (and actually BUILD houses with his bare hands). There is a difference.
Even Richard Nixon, the drugged out and paranoid wanker, became a MUCH better statesman and human being a while AFTER his resignation. He tried, desperately, to climb back into history’s good graces.
Dan: I like your theory of the CW, JC and Cameron triangle. Mostly because I like stories where there is a thin line between good and bad. And the Terminator universe is just like that.
Why will CW bother to teach JH morales and rules if she wants to make Skynet exterminate human race? In fact, she is making JH softer… May be JH is not anymore the Skynet they where after in the start… possibly because of the actions of Sarah (destroying the first Turk) and Derek (killing Andy Good). Someone in this blog mentionned (I don’t remember if it was you Dan) that maybe the real Skynet is the AI that won the chess contest (the japanese gain the great price and the military financial support in the end) in Queen Gambit episode.
What if, in the future the Connor have created by their actions, there is 2 AI that are self-aware, not just one. On one side, JH, because of Ellison, learned to like and cherish life. The other one, trained by the military, will be more willing to erradicate mankind. CW was sent by the machine resistance to secure Coltan, energy source and such so they can win the war against the evil AI. CW don’t rely on humans to win the war because they are unreliable unlike machines.
So there could be 3 parties involve in the Future War: Human resistance, Machine Resistance and Skynet. And throw some Greys in the middle, just to spice it up. Why if Fisher was not sent alone?
Wow, I think there is material there for a couple of seasons.
Early ratings for last night
3.65 million viewers, 1.3/5 share
Last week
3.50 million, 1.2/4 share
A slight increase was registered up against March Madness, however the 1.3 share is still well below expectations.
Remember that T1 was considered by James Cameron to be a negative commentary on the Reagen years.
Dan,
Are you slipping? A few people have wondered what the lyrics are to the song playing during the Derek / Jessie scene. Just kidding.
In the promo for next week Cam tells Derek you cant kill me. I wonder if that’s in the
same context as when Jessie told Derek you cant kill her it’s not something you can
do, John has to do it. I wonder if that’s part of Cams plan, of things John needs to learn. John did spend some time telling Jessie machines were replaceable, humans were not.
@Snake:
I’m pretty sure they’ll only be split up during the next episode, since we saw promo pics for “Adam Raised a Cain” (Ep. 21) where John and Cameron are working together to get Sarah out of Jail.
The song during the Derek/Jesse scene was “New Messiah” from Dead Heart Bloom….
Great episode! Got some answers, John isn’t as clueless seeming anymore. Still have some questions hanging, the most puzzling was if the pigeon that Cam was holding at the end wound up on the 51 or 49 side of the luck scale……
Did anyone else notice that Jesse’s hair was dry after coming out of the pool?
Robert,
Did you also notice that when Jesse asked what he would have done with CAMERON he said he would have done nothing.
Cameron, like a human, is irreplaceable to him. He put her on the same level.
I haven’t slipped… yet.
And Etienne,
I thought the Turk (which is what John Henry is based off of) threw the chess game ON PURPOSE.
It was not supposed to get a military contract, which was the prize for winning.
The Turk is different from the first Skynet. Andy Goode isn’t around to mess things up…
Catherine is this time.
The questions remaining on the table: When JH confronts CW… is it because he doesn’t want CW to hurt people like Ellison (our friend), or because he has gotten the wrong idea of humans from CW’s off-hand comments (due to her being compromised on the sub) and CW sees the errors of her ways (he hurts Savannah) and tries to destroy JH before he can do something really bad?
CW, in a clip with Ellison, tells him she’s disappointed in him and Ellison says he’s sorry.
This could point in either direction.
Issues left hanging:
-Why did they need to transport the T-1000 in a frozen box on a sub if the thing can swim underwater and easily get itself anyplace it may need to go? Or at least take on a human form prior to boarding and thereby raise no suspicions with the crew whatsoever? Answer: JC required that the emissary be frozen because he knew the danger involved. We can assume then he would have taken necessary precautions when defrosting the thing once it arrived. He was not in danger. I think this storyline was originated mainly to have “a moment” on the sub, and any back story or follow up would be thin threads just to support this episode. I don’t see the crew opening the box early as justification for a universal indictment of all humans as disappointing. There’s something more to Weaver’s back story than this, imo.
-Farging lamp! The housekeeper scene was just a vehicle to animate an inanimate object - dramatic license. There’s something special there, though. We still don’t know how Jesse was enabled to take a vacation back to 2007 with Riley in tow. She came back with her own agenda, certainly, but whomever enabled her time-travel has expectations that are yet to be fulfilled. The lamp plays into that somehow.
-If Jesse was so tripped out that she and Riley should not be scene together, why then would they spend time together practicing 2×100 relays at the pool? Obviously not a once or twice affair…they guy took notice (who wouldn’t!?). I hope there’s something to this…else it’s just a very inconsistent story thread.
-Why are all these future-people and metal chilling in 2007? The Weaver thread doesn’t make a whole lot of sense from a machine-logic standpoint. Did she anticipate picking up a scrap T-888 to plug into her chess program, or was that just lucky? Machines don’t do lucky. And could she not have sent a T-888 back with her as spare parts for this basement daycare adventure?
We’re going to need half of Season 3 just to wrap up loose ends from Season 2!
—————
btw, nice work Josh, and to all your TSC Chronicalers
Weaver, to me, IS the leader of the metal resistance against Skynet.
Cameron, is the go-between, or gopher for CW unknown to THIS John Connor, THIS Jesse, THIS Sarah, THIS Derek. You know: go for this, go for that.
She has come back to mold Skynet differently somehow.
How she got the parts to fix JH so fast… maybe she has been destroying T’s in the present (there are a bunch thanks to Skynet) and is hording parts (like Cameron).
We don’t know how LONG she’s been in the past. She may have stumbled upon the real Catherine Weaver and her husband’s company and thought it was the perfect entity to get the job done.
And THAT’S why Catherine (the organic metal version) is a FEMALE. The thing in Pandora’s box had NO GENDER. It needed a pattern to start with.
It touched and killed a FEMALE human on the sub… making its base template… female.
Hey guys!
Off course….great episode! No question about that…..
I only have some weird theories after that one….especially after havin read some of your posts…
First of all to Chris “Coach K” Kincey:
Your post really makes me believe, that there isn’t a future John anymore.
Have you guys thought about this one yet?
The point is, that everyone is complaining, that future John acts “inhuman” right? He risks the life of soldiers like it was nothing…..then, we never actually SAW future John, right? We saw Kyle Reese, Martin Bedell, Cameron and Allison Young, Jessie and Riley, Derek and his squad…yes, even the guy who “built” Skynet, Andy Goode, but we didn’t see John….PLUS, the phrase said by Cameron to Jessie “it’s the same thing to tell me” could be interpretated, that there isn’t actually a John Connor anymore….maybe Cameron killed him, before her reprogramming was done for 100%…to keep the resistance together, she acted like him (changed voice etc.)….this could be, because we know, that people believe, John lives isolated with Cameron, so noone would notice, if there wasn’t John Connor, you guys get what i’m trying to tell ya?!
Ah, wouldn’t even be the first time….in T3, as we all know, Arnie killed John Connnor in the future……
Oh i forgot….what could support my theory is, that Queeg didn’t give Jessie the information about the T-1000, because the information is classified….”only to important people”, if you want it that way (btw, sorry for my english, not the best yet
but Cameron has seemingly no problem to tell Jessiee what the question was….and to really stretch the point out a bit…it seems strange, that Cameron does not allow Jessie to see John Connor, while she would have let a T-1000 with no really clear allegiance to anyone (Skynet, Resistance, ??a third party??) face John, and potentially having him killed?!?! STRANGE, if you ask me…….
Allright, to Lindsays post……
John Connor lives isolated (IF he actually will be living lol), because humans, or to be more exactly John’s relation to them, his caring for them, would make him weak. At least Cameron said so…….
Same thing would count for her as well though…..MAYBE, becuase John stated, that machines are replaceable, humans not, but in the same time, he always refers to Cameron as “she”, not “it”……that’s an interesting one……
For the rest….it really could be, that the T1000 is Weaver…..but it’s all a bit confusing….gotta watch it again
It’s also hard to guess, when exactly the T1000 decides to say “no”…i think, in the moment, where “it” finds out, the crew wants to leave, without the Terminator. As you have may noticed, the T1000 wasn’t actually agressive at all….it only self-defended, when that girl pointed a gun on it (with that great Robert Patrick like acting!! :-).
But for the rest, we didn’t see the metal attacking anyone of the crew, plus Queeg wasn’t bothered at all. Like it would be no harm to anyone, wich was actually the truth….final plus to my “John-is-dead-theory”…did you notice, how Cameron was “moved” when Jessie told her the answer was no?!?! Could have been, because she wanted Weaver to act like if she was John, since she is a shapeshifter…..
Think about it!
Would like to read some of your reactions…..
Greeting to everyone!
Keep promoting the show….i want a season 3 guys!!
Ah yes…..i also do think Weaver to be the metal Skynet resistance leader or at least a part of it….why else would she try to let Ellison “educate” John Henry morals and stuff like that?!?!?
The question is now…..was Cameron a part of that resistance while she had the conversation with Allison, or did she just pretend it?!?!?
Catherine, the T-1001 version, got the WRONG impression of humans…
It thought they were a threat. They acted aggressively towards it (then “her”) on opening the box. She slithers away, but sees them fighting and bitching and hurting each other on the sub in the mess hall.
Then they leave without taking her with them… abandoning her to die.
And it’s not the first time that we’ve speculated that John Connor has been killed. But it’s the WHEN.
Maybe somebody hated John Connor and his actions (Derek said not everyone loved or agreed with him) enough to kill him. Cameron then takes over and you never see John around.
Maybe Cameron thought this meeting was a great way to get the metal resistance to join the fight against Skynet to have an alliance. She was trying to act in his stead.
OR the line about Jesse telling John is the same as telling her meant that John thought of her (and she thinks of herself) equal to the task… as high up in the movement as John.
Either way… Cameron comes back IMHO to the past because a human faction wants to kill her too. She escapes to be with John again. He’s her reason for being.
To all who asked about the lamp:
Pretty sure it’s a metaphor for Jesse’s life / mission. She works very carefully to maintain balance and perfection, keeping both sides of herself hidden from the other and from those who care about her. Moving the lamp to balance it with the one on the adjacent table shows the need for order and balance in her life.
Of course, the irony of it is that someone who knew better (a maid more familiar with the room, I’d imagine) could see how wrong she was, just like we are shown how wrong she was to undertake the mission that she did. It might also symbolize that after all her careful work, it meant nothing and was wiped away in an instant.
Just my two cents! :-p
“Either way… Cameron comes back IMHO to the past because a human faction wants to kill her too. She escapes to be with John again. He’s her reason for being.”
Take this statement, then speculate that Cameron was trying to mess up the works for Skynet’s benefit. She was its agent to break up the alliance between metal and human resistances to begin with.
But… she doesn’t know HUMANS yet. She doesn’t know JOHN yet… like Catherine. Once she gets into the camp as Allison… her world view changes and she sees that not all is at it seems.
Her enemy, John Connor, becomes her greatest friend and ally. Summer stated that perhaps there was a bit of a romance going on (maybe at the very early stages). Cam decides…
“Hmmm… maybe I shouldn’t terminate John after all.” Just like in S&D… she chooses not to do it. And yet, the HUD read out still had flashed TERMINATE. Then it was OVERRIDDEN. It was a conscious decision on Cameron’s part.
She then becomes integral to the resistance movement. That also leads me to think that there was very little reprogramming done by John to Cameron.
If she shows that she can change from evil to good ON HER OWN, then that may tell John that this is a Terminator to watch. She’s learning without help. She can be trusted UNLIKE the other metals.
John gets killed (by another one of his programmed Terminators that are not like Cameron or another human) and Cameron runs for her life.
I go back to Kyle’s words to Sarah in T1:
“I’ve come across time for you… I love you.”
I love this show but trying to figure this all out, multiple timelines, two versions of characters, metal factions against Skynet, etc, etc. My head hurts.
Only three episodes left for answers.
At least we know CW’s mission will be revealed. That should help with some of the other questions too.
Answers just raise more questions.
These performances just knock me out though. Great stuff. They shoot these scenes so good too.
Cameron crosses… against the light.
The Turk lost the chess match because as Dmitri told Cameron he changed the end game protocals so the Truk would lose. So far only Cameron knows this. If this weakness never corrected then Skynet is doomed to make the same error and falling into the same trap ove4r and over again.
But didn’t Andy Goode also say that The Turk, especially this itineration, acted like a willful teenager sometimes?
Out of spite or a “tantrum”… it throws the game. Dimitri, perhaps, didn’t do as much as he let on.
After all, if he admitted it, it would mean he wasn’t as in control of The Turk as he stated.
Lot of comments so far so I’ll try not to repeat anything that was already said, though I doubt it can be done.
I don’t think that was Weaver, though the evidence is compelling, I think it’s just too much of a stretch. Skynet must have created thousands of T-1000s and for that particular one to be the same T is just too much. Also Weaver’s objective is pretty clear and that is to teach John Henry (Skynet) before J-Day. Whenever JH is considering humanity as something not to fear, but rather as a friend, she shoots it down. Also it’s clear that she isn’t part of the main Skynet faction and here’s why. Skynet sent a terminator to kill the psychologist (can’t remember his name right now) but Cameron stopped her in that crazy chick fight in the elevator. Weaver however had another idea and used him in part of whatever agenda she has, which is definitely separate from Skynet’s in the future. This is seen again when Skynet wants to kill Ellison but Cromartie saves him and then Weaver gets him off the hook by impersonating the DA.
When JH “played” with Savannah I think he genuinely thought of it as a game despite those creepy smiles he was throwing. After when Ellison told JH he would’ve been responsible for Savannah’s death if she had fallen JH looked truly surprised at this. Though I loved Cromartie I think Garret Dillahunt does a much better job as JH.
More evidence as to why John Connor is John Connor and why “Revenge is a dish best served cold.” If he had taken out Cameron (like how Sarah and Derek wanted) then Riley’s death would never have had justice served. In a lot of ways I think that showed Derek just how much John has grown and it increased his respect for him. Derek is treating John much more as an equal now, or even a superior, than before in season one and even early season two (remember Derek’s look when John rescued Cameron from that thermite bath?).
Sarah just can’t catch a break can she? I think her role is the most complicated of the series and still Lena Headey pulls it off incredibly. Just the right amount of mother caring and hardcore fighter. She didn’t have much of a roll in this episode, other than her words to Cameron, who seems to be considering them carefully which is undeoubtedly foreshadowing for some John/Cameron angst in the coming episodes. Maybe it’s time Sarah backed off a bit and took John Connor’s advice from T2 and start listening to him more.
Ellison is an idiot and after last night’s episode it’s safe to say who the better detective is between him and John.
Derek is finally getting the character growth he’s been waiting for ALL SEASON but I believe it would’ve been better if he knew the fate of Jesse’s child (if not his) because despite her being from an alternate future she sure seems to be a lot like his Jesse. We don’t get to choose the people we fall in love with, it just happens on its own, and I think John was right when he said Derek loved her no matter what future whose who is from. Did he kill her? Although I understand the sound of the missfire I don’t think majority of the audience does so maybe it was an accidental screwup that somehow made it to the screen without anybody noticing.
The violence! I disagree with most fo the people here, with the exception of Hoyt apparently, and this is why. There was a bunch of violence in this episode and the quality was fantastic but the quantity was not. Fans of the movies like to see longer drawn out gunfights and explosions. The first gunbattle between Cameron and Sarah against Cromartie during the pilot is a great example. Kevlar chairs, shotguns, and of course terminator fighting. The following episode’s foot chase in the streets (one of Summer Glau’s personal favorites) was also very much long and drawn out, which is a good thing! Both the quality and quantity were great. If we are to get a larger pull from those Terminator fans then that’s the type of violence and action that is needed. In tonight’s episode there were a lot of special effects and fight scenes but not one that really is truly spectacular. The drama was what kept most people hooked, not the action.
Cameron said that John intended to ask for an alliance and something tells me that this John wouldn’t be stupid enouigh to just open the box himself. There were plenty of terminators in his service and any number of them could. Bring the box into a secure room, plasma rifles ready, and let the thing say no and then blast the hell out of it. The only mistake made was Queeg not telling them anything but then how would the crew react if they knew they were carrying a Skynet ambassador (or one of its many factions) to John Connor? It’d be one thing if Queeg ordered the box opened on the sub so that it could kill the crew and then sneakily make its way to Seranno Point, infiltrate, and then kill John Connor, but Queeg didn’t. If they followed orders then none of them would’ve been killed and maybe (because no one really knows) John would’ve received the message no muss no fuss and then kill the thing before it could escape. He definitely knew about liquid terminators from his experience as a child so he wouldn’t be stupid about it. He’d guess what could be in the box and take appropriate precautions. There really wasn’t enough information given about this subplot but sometimes its better not to completely know all the facts.
Saving Cameron for last =D. I love seeing future scenes of her. Often because of the roll she plays we aren’t able to recognize the scars of the battles she was in during the future whereas with other characters, Derek mainly, we see it everyday and Brian pulls it off brilliantly. Summer can’t show that and any major character growth we see from her is because of the actions of this John Connor and not the one in the future. She definitely has her own agenda (or rather one the future John gave her and told her not to share) but I’m sure the last thing it would be is to try and endanger John’s safety.
“Sometimes they go bad. No one knows why.”
What a load of crap! They’re MACHINES. If you have a line of malfunctioning goods you recall them and do a full diagnostic. If the technicians in the future can’t figure that out then they shouldn’t be playing with them in the first place. It’d be like stockpiling black powder with no clue of what sets it off. Then every now and then one goes off and there goes the entire magazine. Still, even if you had a perfect track record (which the resistance does not), should anything goes wrong you should have a failsafe mechanism. Cameron was smart enough to implant an explosive around her chip. Are you telling me that teams of engineers that can build time machines can’t figure out how to keep their robots in line?
The reason why this terminator is so unique is that she really can go bad at any moment. She’s realized just how easily her programming can go from protecting John to killing him and how she can’t disobey it. That’s a huge breakthrough and has also allowed files, previously deleted by the resistance, to resurface and gave her the Alison from Palmdale experience. Without the car explosion Cameron would be just another robot and should she and John do the ugly she would be a sexbot, nothing more. It will come to a point where Cameron will see this John to be the same John from the future and once that happens she will be under his control.
Example: “Don’t shoot him.”… “As you wish.”
I rambled long enough.
I love you Summer!
Hey Josh - idea for you. Advertise this blog at the start/end of the credit roll. I’m sure you’d see a massive spike in hits, and comments too. Every bit helps convince the suits that there’s a market for S3.
Just like Future John with Cameron… if he just out and out states to her that didn’t really do all that much to her chip… he won’t admit it and fibs (Cameron said he thought John didn’t tell her everything)…
Think of the implications. John is not the grand computer programmer and puppet master everybody thinks he is.
The Wizard is just a man hiding behind a curtain.
Cameron chose her own destiny. Maybe to love John rather than to hurt him, which could have been Skynet’s first plan.
What did The Wizard of Oz do for Dorothy, The Tin Man, The Lion, and the Scarecrow?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
They had family and a home, a heart, courage, and brains ALL THE TIME.
They only had to discover it for themselves.
———-
America: “Tin Man”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmC2OdbRb0
“But Oz never did give nothin’ to the Tin-Man
That he didn’t, didn’t already have”
I have never been disappointed in any of the episodes….I’ve always thought of this show like a really good book. You have to have the back stories in order to have episodes like last night’s. The depth and the tension of this episode was possible because we are invested in the characters and the story ( spot-on acting from an incredible cast & superior direction/writing from the team doesn’t hurt, either!). In my opinion, there is no way that episode could have been effective without the build-up. If we only had “blow ‘em aways” every week, it would get old and there wouldn’t be any investment in the story. This series speaks to people…and provides the eye-candy, the action, and the brain-tease that equals great entertainment! I always have a question at the end…..which makes me come back, week after week, and hopefully all next season!!!
The maid moving the lamp at the end was a beautiful touch. What little evidence of our existence we leave behind in this world–and how swiftly and inadvertently it gets swept away.
Thanks to the writers for having faith in the intelligence of your viewers–even if there isn’t much evidence of it sometimes.
In all wars, one method of defeating the enemy has always been to impersonate him; wear the uniform, speak the language and infiltrate the ranks as seamlessly as possible. Future wars will be the same. Machines will attempt to take on human characteristics, both physical and cognitive, as closely as possible in order to blend. Conversely, humans may emulate machines in as many characteristics as possible, for the same reason. At some point, maybe neither side will be able to tell which is which.
Even today we have people with metal rods for bones, electronic gadgets for hearts, and prosthetic limbs. We have synthetic skin for burn victims and all manor of implements for teeth and hair. Whole electronic auditory systems have replaced those provided by nature. Are we not becoming machines already?
Carried to its logical conclusion, machines and humans are destined to meld into an integrated entity acceptable to both factions, thus negating the need for war altogether.
I believe this notion is playing out before our eyes in T/SCC.
This one’s for Cameron… and Snake
The Ozark Mountain Daredevils: “Jackie Blue” (Radio Edit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz4tMKErcZw
ooh-hoo-hoo, Jackie Blue
lives her life from inside of a room
hides that smile when she’s wearin’ a frown
ooh Jackie, you’re not so down
you like your life in a free-form style
you’ll take an inch, but you’d love a mile
there never seems to be quite enough
floating around to fill your lovin’ cup
ooh-hoo-hoo, Jackie Blue
what’s a game, girl, if you never lose
ask a winner and you’ll prob’bly find
ooh Jackie, they’ve lost it sometime
don’t try to tell me that you’re not aware
of what you’re doin’ and that you don’t care
you say it’s easy, just a natural thing
like playin’ music, but you never sing
ooh-hoo-hoo, Jackie Blue
makin’ wishes that never come true
goin’ places where you’ve never been
ooh Jackie, you’re goin’ again
ooh-hoo-hoo, Jackie Blue
lives her life from inside of a room
makes you think that her life is a drag
ooh Jackie, what fun you have had
ooh Jackie, ooh Jackie
ooh Jackie, ooh Jackie
hey, hey, hey, hey!
DH,
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the Truk.
But think about in D&D that while Skynet was going for the bunker/tunnel where Connor was supposed to be, Connor was able to attack the Skynet fortress containing the TDE. Note that Derreck and his team had no knowledge of this attack that Connor must have been planning for some time. Did Connor sacrifice the bunker and all the people in it (save Kyle and Derek and Derek’s team) because he knew Skynet would be unable not to attack and leave itself uncovered?
Wouldn’t it be just like a willful teenager to make the same mistake over and over again and never admit it keeps making the wrong decision?
Josh & Co,
Yesterday was my birthday and I just wanted to say thanks for the most excellent present that was TitD2.
That’s true, LAR. The remaining questions really make you want to tune in again. For me it’s also the great work by the cast & crew.
So much to think about if you’re trying to figure it all out ahead of time. I’m just going to let the plots unfold and enjoy all the performances, and see where the story ends up in the last episode. I have no doubt it will be an amazing end to the season.
Many of the fans here are quick to come up with elaborate theories though, much quicker than me. I’m impressed.
great choice of Dead Heart Bloom–”you’ve failed to define your messiah again…now here I am here I am here I am…” perfect.
Czarfore,
Happy Birthday, for yesterday!
The Beatles… “Birthday”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHTN0sSXDEQ
Geez, of course Derek killed Jesse! All the talk about him killing his best friend (Andy Goode), how she’s not his Jesse, he’s not John Connor. There’s too much at stake, they can’t have someone else trying to sabotage their mission by killing the metal that protects John or make them lose their focus. That’s why there’s the flashback scene of Riley and Jesse, because they’re now BOTH dead.
John has a meltdown because two people died because of him and human life is irreplaceable.
Stuff like this is what makes this show great.
I say that Jesse is still alive. Derek waited way too long and, remember, the sight of his gun is off.
I forgot to say that Derek shot his gun, for sure, but only to mark the rupture between them, not to kill.
His speech about Andy Good ? Remember that he killed him for naught and that they never could find the Turk.
@Dan Hitchman
If we are to look for Wizard of Oz references I like your take. There’s also a logical reason to go that way - the mechanics of the time travel as established in TSCC.
It’s clear that Jesse and Derek were from different timelines. Accounts from Derek, e.g. re the nuclear power plant that the Weaverbot took over, demonstrate that the future Derek knows has already been abolished… in this timeline. What it means, logically it appears to me, is that anyone coming back from the future not only alters the timeline to negate their future but renders their actions completely random. Any knowledge of future events is only a scenario and not any kind of ability to predict outcomes. A future John cannot have any effect on his timeline because he knows the results of any actions caused by time travel. However, for Sarah et al in the now they can’t know where their timeline is going because it’s impossible to know what the timeline changes they are making will take them to.
In fact it would appear that we are really talking about however many future Johns there are time travel events - which means not all future Johns can be presumed to have the same agenda. Indeed, in some futures Cameron could be hiding the death of John and in some futures John is really in charge. In some futures John and Sarah are fighting side by side and in some Cameron was never sent back.
A related issue was broached in “Self Made Man.” Going too far back in time multiplies the unpredictable side effects of your intervention. It is possible, for instance, that going back before the Cold War ended could lead to you triggering WW3 and stopping Skynet happening - because there was no technological civilization left to build it after an all-out nuclear exchange between Russia and America.
In the first “Terminator” film time travel was a method of last resort for the losing side because the results are extremely unpredictable - and indeed, the machines ended up creating the very nemesis they were trying to destroy.
The important thing to note according to this analysis is that the future can change and it is actually totally pointless to worry about what is happening in the future because it hasn’t happened yet. Further, because of the mechanics no doubt poorly explained above, no knowledge of future events is available (except perhaps in very restricted cases we might reason ourselves to). For instance, Cameron could glitch at any time and kill anyone, negating any knowledge anyone has of anything in any future. So, at least in the Terminator universe, we really do only live in the eternal now in spite of being able to travel in time.
Accounts of the future are only relevant as memories of characters that demonstrate that character’s motivation. They are unlikely to give us any useful information about this timeline of the now. Except in as far as what is imagined to be known about the future affects the actions of people in the present. In that way the future is practically no different from the past! It means Jesse’s sacrifice of Riley was an insane, tragic, waste of a young life not just from a moral viewpoint but as a matter of logical fact.
I’m sure Cameron would understand anyway - maybe it’s why she never says much about the future.
I don’t get how Jesse got back through time. If Conner didn’t send her - he wouldn’t have to do THAT mission - how’d she manage to get to a time machine?
About your time paradox logic, John Pate…
You are correct, sir.
And you and I, and I HOPE, the writers have not forgotten…
Their L. Frank Baum.
hey remember we need to push fox and wb for another season
but is really important to write WB, they are behind the show, remember
How about Halcyon… ?
The Money Wizards behind the T franchise now.
We don’t know their intentions.
How do we contact them? And also beg them for more money for action and effects work.
This to me , was one of the best episodes ever. Jacobsen and Dekkers acting was outstanding. Well done! The story of the Jimmy Carter was really a lot of fun.
It’s been so long since Jesse came into the picture, and now that she is gone a feel a bit nostalgic. I am sorry for Dereck, I hope he didn’t kill, her …She doesn’t deserve that.
John finally is becoming John Connor! And he apologized to Cameron!
Sarah freaking out over Cameron, ……….like every mother would with a hot girl in the house.
The last was my absolute favorite. Really touching. It was perfect, I loved it.
But think about in D&D that while Skynet was going for the bunker/tunnel where Connor was supposed to be, Connor was able to attack the Skynet fortress containing the TDE. Note that Derreck and his team had no knowledge of this attack that Connor must have been planning for some time. Did Connor sacrifice the bunker and all the people in it (save Kyle and Derek and Derek’s team) because he knew Skynet would be unable not to attack and leave itself uncovered?
Excuse me but, have you ever used a Microsloth product?
Is my interface faulty?
How the heck are people getting this text to do bold and italics?
I don’t seem to be using the right script forms and that’s WHY I USE CAPS. I’m not trying to shout, but I don’t know how to get this damn text to format correctly.
Teach an idiot, please!!
html?
@Dan:
Probably using HTML.
Test
Yep,
Dan, use html tags, like emphasis maybe and italic, bold…
emphasis maybe and italic, bold
Are you telling me that teams of engineers that can build time machines can’t figure out how to keep their robots in line?
Have you ever used a Microsloth product? How many lines of code would be involved with something as complicated as a cyborg?
But think about in D&D that while Skynet was going for the bunker/tunnel where Connor was supposed to be, Connor was able to attack the Skynet fortress containing the TDE. Note that Derreck and his team had no knowledge of this attack that Connor must have been planning for some time. Did Connor sacrifice the bunker and all the people in it (save Kyle and Derek and Derek’s team) because he knew Skynet would be unable not to attack and leave itself uncovered?
I think Derek or one of the other prisoners gave up the bunker in D&D.
I love this show but trying to figure this all out, multiple timelines, two versions of characters, metal factions against Skynet, etc, etc. My head hurts.
Embrace the paradox!
How the heck are people getting this text to do bold and italics?
Italics is opened by an i enclosed by ‘less than’ and ‘greater than’ signs and closed by /i enclosed the same way. I think bold is a b. It’s all HTML.
i think john crying at the end was cuz he held it in for so long he cryed like a tear when riley died thats not enuff to get it out . i think jesse hates cameron for the cold way she give the news about the loss of the baby and what happend on the sub thinking she gave the comand to pick up the t-oo1 not john .jesse is not dead and will be back if the show lasts longer then two seasons . i want season 3 so bad tscc is best show on tv .
This episode did not lose my attention for a millisecond. I could not tear away to even blink. LOVED it.
Dan, who SO called it about John knowing about Riley! I so predicted this episode!
I never lost faith in John and his decisions AND knew he was smarter than that!
Oh man, I love this show.
Also, loved how they had the last scene.
It was so simple yet significant.. he chose to cry on his mother’s (a human) instead of Cameron’s (metal) lap. Very significant especially after Derek said “waiting for you to be human”…..
Thanks to Zack Stentz for putting my name in the show! Now I’m a celebrity! LOL!
Good have used a better picture on John Henry’s screen to represent my name, though!
OTOH, it looks like Josh Friedman, too! LOL!
Richard,
You even got killed! Doesn’t that make you feel special?
And by the steely and lovely hands of Shirley Manson !!! Even it it was off camera LOL!
Apparently, an old dog can learn new tricks!
Thanks for assistance, fellas!!
You rock!
And now for the pièce de résistance:
AN EDIT BUTTON WOULD BE REALLY NICE!!!
Thank you!
AWESOME, AWESOME!! I have been thinking about this episode all day. I found the most interesting part, and the one that confuses me the most is the future scene with Cameron and Jesse. Cameron said “I’m sorry for your loss” - this was something she learned (empathy) in the future to this scene, but back in time. (OMG, the time travel thing will completely twist up your mind). This was not something she said until after she went to the funerals with the Connor family. I totally can’t make sense of this - is she going back and forth in time? Also, the comment on “telling me is like telling John Connor” - there is a lot to this statement. This will make more sense down the road, but I’m guessing a mind download of sorts. There has to be a reason why he trusts her so much in the future. Questions, questions…….
this ep was beyong amazing, was fantastic!!! i’m gonna watch again in just a few minutes. i can’t hardly wait for next friday!!!!
I [b]didn’t [/b]know we [i]could [/i]use html in here!
Well, [b]wow![/b]
lol
I’ll stop now.
Gee, well apparently I can’t learn the new tricks.
Lol.
Wrong brackets. I’m too used to another forum that I visit all the time.
BLISS04,
Derek clued you in. His Jesse was from his time line. The Jesse that came back in time had Cameron living with John for many, many years.
Though, if that’s the case… Cameron has not evolved much.
This would be the third time for Cameron in some respects starting at this current moment in time because she is further influenced by this time line’s events… she will learn even more, hopefully, than the Cameron Jesse knew.
She will probably be like Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day” this time through… she will have gained so much more knowledge and wisdom to be a better individual.
Just like John Connor.
Hopefully, they don’t always hear “I’ve Got You, Babe” on the radio in each go through of a new time line! That would make anyone go just a little mad.
LOL!
Perhaps this time Cameron and John figure out how to love each other more deeply and get what they need from each other, what they’ve been searching for.
You mean more Jameron?? Ugh.
Gary, more Jameron…
Yeah!
Amazing episode! Not much words can say how much I loved this episode it was great.
I watched the episode last nite and just watched again on Hulu.
Please, Please don’t cancel this show…there is so little quality on network TV now, please don’t make it worse by removing this show.
Dan, as foodinpockets mentioned, what’s your theory on how Jesse managed to go back in time?
She not only managed to get herself in there, but Riley too. Someone working behind JC’s back? That time machine has to be very well guarded.
Or was there a clue in the series someplace? I thought I watched everything.
Dan Hitchman - good point. I keep forgeting that everything they are doing and changing in the present (or is it the past - wtf?) is affecting the future. That’s what makes this show so great, it really makes you think. Then once you think you have everything figured out, it somehow does a 360, or at least a 180. Good grief, I hope time travel never actually becomes a reality in my lifetime, I’d be so confused.
Gary,
Jesse had the help of one of the ‘bubble tech’ JC employs or so she tells Derek not long after they frist meet in the present.
There are factions, Gary, of resistance fighters, just as there are factions of advanced and self aware metal.
As Derek stated to John: not everyone loves him, and not everyone agrees.
Now, what do they do with those sentiments?
Probably some are mutinous. As the Jimmy Carter crew showed you.
Why the Jimmy Carter and not another sub?
What does Jimmy do? He negotiates peace treaties as a president, and as an official envoy, and for his Jimmy Carter foundation.
Ahh, thanks Innocent, and Dan.
Somehow I missed that.
Hooroo, Evil Jesse. I think I’m gonna miss ya.
I love this show however BAG just signed on to a new TV show this fall on the CW that cant be a good sign
Fantastic episode, how can an hour go by so fast?
Just thought I’d mention that I saw “Riley” in a movie tonight looking beautiful and “alive.” It was a pleasant surprise to see her. She’s in “He’s Just Not That Into You.” and plays a very sexy hostess in a bar.
Sounds like we have a couple brain-washed military types on here…ugh. Thanks, Dan for sticking up for the good guys.
i’ve been told that 20 of 41 is 49%
i think that is bad rounding.
Wow - What a darn amazing show!! There is just so much going on. I really did like all of the sub action but am sad to see the Jimmy Carter gone. I would have liked to see more future sub action.
I can’t wait to see more of what is coming up next. I hope that we get to see more about the HK’s that were/are getting made in the present time. And CW’s back story will be awesome! I know that this T-1000 ‘could’ be her, but, I want to know more about her possible faction and also how logn she has been in the present. John Henry is awesome! I really like to see his character grow and learn more. Aren’t we still supposed to see him and weaver fight soon?
This is just such a huge and rich universe. There are so many aspects to explore and things to learn about - I just can’t get enough. WE NEED A SEASON 3!!! Come on Fox - let us have it!!!
love the show I hope jesse is still alive and I want a season 3 so me and my boyfriend can have something to watch. Its the only good show left!!!!
Wow,
Easily the best and most engaging episode I’ve seen. I just watched it on hulu. I work late can’t watch it live…sorry guys! With that said. I have now been added as a platoon member to get this show to season 3. Tell me what I have to do!
The DVR increase in the 18-49 demo has been anywhere from
35 to 41%
so a 1.3 is actually a 1.9
which is incredible for a Friday night scifi show.
Phil,
It’s either a bad sign for the show’s fate, or Derek is going to be done as a character at the end of Season 2 (as in a dirt nap), or…
BAG will flip back and forth and only show up occasionally in Season 3, so he can focus on this new show. Unless, of course, he’s not a central figure on this new CW show and will be split half and half as a working actor (with maybe other projects on the side). They’re probably both shot on the same studio back lot.
Start worrying if Summer or Dekker or Lena gets signed on for something else when TSCC should be filming. That would spell doom.
Let’s try not to go there just yet as things are starting to pick themselves back up.
And Jan…
Thanks! I guess I’m one of the very vocal voices of the opposing viewpoint. LOL!
I didn’t use to be… when I was younger I was quite shy (painfully so), so I relate to Summer in that way and sympathize.
Wow! WowWEEE!
Man I hope that Christian bale movie has a lot of dialog!
I mean robots! Cyborgs! that’s all cool but wow! Talk! That what terminator is about!
Layers and layers of passion and inner sorrow! that’s talk drama dialog scifi
inner-action (the true action) at its best!
I love the scene in terminator when Reese waste Arnold for the 1st time, shotgun to the chest and Arnold gets up an chases him and Sarah jump through fire, on fire, hand through window shield that was great!
But John Henry and bionicles! that’s scifi action thriller baby!
Lets all sing “Paint me a Dragon paint me a dungeon, john Henry, john Henry!”
John connor and Jessie conversing for 23 minutes that’s better then anything I’ve ever seen.
The way he sat in the dark, the way he orders her to give him the gun, sweet! Baby sweet!
How he followed he, amazing story.
Who needs bleached skulls, chases, and hovering ships and guns and action and guns and action!
Words, dialog, monologs…sonnets baby, sonnets of action! Sonnet action! Action sonnets!
GIVE ME ACTION SONNETS AND BIONICLES AND BABY PUPPIES!
SOOONNEEEETS OF ACTION! AND BIONICLES!
For the slower fan boys and fan girls, the above was sarcasm!
….“Paint me a Dragon paint me a dungeon, john Henry, john Henry!”
Ohhhh! “Paint me a Dragon paint me a dungeon, john Henry, john Henry!”
But Lena and Summer looked hot! So I’ll be back next week for more.. Lenah!!!
….“Paint me a Dragon paint me a dungeon, john Henry, john Henry!”
Ohhhh! “Paint me a Dragon paint me a dungeon, john Henry, john Henry!”
PUT SOME AMAZING ACTION-ORIENTED TRAILERS ON YOUTUBE, SO WE FANS CAN PROMOTE IT.
Great episode. It better get a season 3. This show just keeps better and better. I just saw it online, so I didn’t watch it live, so I feel bad about that. I traveled out of town.
Dan, she meant Obama, not Jameron. lol
Wow…I thought that was an amazing ending to the 2 part ep. I’m still blown away. Let me tell you how much I love this show. I had that flu that’s going around, high fever…but I watched TSCC live!!!!! Yes TSCC in high fever vision…fun!!!
This show deserves a S3 because there is so much we still need to know.
Love that we were all right about liquid metal in the box. Love when ‘she’ shook her finger at the group.
I can’t believe Jesse would go against her captain like that, kill him, destroy the sub. All for what?!?! Oh my goodness. Its like she went nuts.
I love that Cameron is more high ranking and on equal footing with John then anyone guessed. I don’t think anyone (Sarah, present John or Derek know that!) I guess that would answer Sarah’s question. And it looked the like soldiers stationed outside were for Cameron’s safely not for Jesse’s.
Abut when Jesse asks John if anything would have kept him from Cameron and he said no I was so happy. That made me a very happy Jameron fan.
I’m so intrigued about Cameron and her role in all this.
I am happy to see that John admits being with Riley was a mistake but boy am I glad he did follow her. We called it.
And what an emotional scene at the end. I guess that was the one TD was talking about in the chat. John sitting so close to Cameron but he leans in for his mother for comfort.
I loved all the major talks. Great dialogue!!
Jesse and Cameron
John and Jess
Jesse and Derek (and the fact that we don’t see what Derek does)
Cameron and Sarah
I loved John’s apology to Cameron. That you think he’s talking to Sarah but its really Cameron.
Jesse and Cameron talk and seeing Cameron’s reaction to the question. So I guess the liquid terminator was part of the terminator resistance. And that the liquid terminator in question just might be Weaver since she told JH human’s will disappoint you.
Which makes you wonder had the crew on the U-boat behaved would the liquid terminator have had a different answer. But wow.
Also can’t Cameron leave those poor birds alone. LOL. That one looked like it had a 51% chance of living.
Have I mentioned what a amazing episode.
So it does show you Cameron is different if she can eat.
Considering Weaver took, or appeared to take, a sip of water in EP 3.
And the crew was freaking out about not eating.
Loved he Weaver and JH parts, the eyes to the soul talk and the falcons. And I really liked those connections to the T1 and T2 movies as well as back to S1.
I love that John said even if Cameron had killed Riley he would not leave her.
So maybe Cameron might leave him at the end and Sarah betrays John by not telling her she might have cancer.
I guess S2 has been more about tearing the family apart and S3 (we better get one) would be more bring them together.
Either way bring on next Friday and we better get a S3 somewhere, anywhere, because wow!!!
Bravo!!!
Yes Dan and Jan, we’re the ones who make it possible for you to do whatever it is you do. We know you detest us but, you’re welcome anyway.
And speaking of brainwashed Jan, Hope and Change, Hope and Change, Hope and Change. The mindless chant of the brainwashed masses.
Gary, I was talking about Obama, and Jimmy Carter, and Jameron, and…
LOL!
And Snake…
WMD’s WMD’s WMD’s.
We do not torture we do not torture we do not torture
Do we torture? It’s classified…
Mushroom cloud mushroom cloud mushroom cloud
Both sides can play this game. It’s unfortunate, but it happens.
Politics is an ugly business, and it doesn’t have to be.
Hey, Jamerons!
Wouldn’t it be cool if Cameron, damaged and thinking she has no one left who cares about her (Sarah, you rat!!), and may even think she is going to be in this sorry state… alone…
When John finds her and stoops down, with hand outstretched…
“Come with me, if you want to live.”
Yes, Dan you get a reply from an Anti-shipper, now don’t try to terminate me. I explained my reasons somewhere, don’t remember where though. All I know is that it’s sick in my mind. It’s not like American soldiers getting married to Asian women during the war, it is beyond that. Humans & machines may need to form an alliance some day, but I cant help but think humans will never forgive machines or trust them. That people would raise their kids not to. But of course if you did look at history, humans eventually forgive each other and stop fighting, but I cant see how in this situation that will happen.
@ Dan’s post “When John finds her and stoops down, with hand outstretched…
“Come with me, if you want to live.””
NICE!!!!
I’m assuming Jesse was looking at the bulletin board because she lost the baby and was longing for him/her when she saw all the photo’s with kids in it.
Aww Derek would have been a daddy.
I also love that John says human’s are irreplaceable. But in a way putting Cameron right up there with him and human’s shows that Cameron is irreplaceable as well. Which of course makes me hungry for more back-story on Cameron and that wonderful Jamaeron relationship!!!!
I still wonder if Derek killed Jesse or not. Great scene. I yelled at my TV when the commercial came on…which of course irritated my already sore throat but wow!!!
What’s your thought on the lamp moving (once by Jesse and once by the housekeeper)? I actually expected it to because liquid metal!!! But I think that’s the fever talking. LOL!!!
Its interesting the T-888 did not answer Jesse’s question…yet Cameron told her. Which of course ties into the ‘wanting to know more about Cameron’. I have about 50 questions off the top of my head…but I’ll spare you!!!
And again is John alive and he decided he needs to save Cameron by sending her to the past…to learn to be more human? Or is he dead?
Of course if he’s dead and Cameron is in charge then the resistance would fall apart. Unless she figures the only good she can do is in the past. The time travel stuff blows your mind.
If you go rewatch stuff back in S1 or S2 you start to see all these little connections. And is it Friday yet because TGIF!!!!
Again hats off to the cast and crew!!! Top notice episode. Hands down we need a Season 3 somewhere, anywhere because this show has proven itself that it can not only do action but top notice drama as well. You give us all these juicy tidbits to think about during the week. What an intelligence show. TSCC is just SO addictive to watch!!! And I actually got family members to watch this show because I was raving about this ep!!! Oh please let there be a Season 3…somewhere…anywhere!!!!
I’m driving my friends nuts. And FYI had top notch commercials airing during TSCC again. This time even Honda joined the ranks for the car commercials.
Dan love the America: “Tin Man” song!!! I’ll be humming that all day!!!
And someone had Halcyon contact info on the wiki board.
Come on Season 3…Please!!!
Awesome Episode!!!
Super writing. Two weeks ago I really wanted Jesse to get hers. After tonight I wasn’t so sure. Think I sided with JC on this one. My wife, however, was furious that they didn’t show Derrick killing her. Women are truly the more vindictive half of the species
I’m really curious about one thing though. Last week they show John fidgeting with the kill switch–popping the cover open and shut. Of course I assumed he was thinking about pushing the button. However, tonight, even after he told Cameron he was sorry he doubted her, he is still shown popping the cover open and shut. Also, he tells Jesse he wouldn’t have destroyed Cameron even if she had been responsible for Riley’s death. So the conclusion is, he never was thinking about blowing Cameron’s chip. What then DOES it mean to John when he fidgets with the detonator switch?
Just watched part 2 again on the internet via the Fox site and wanted to comment again. That episode was powerful. Amazing acting, emotionally gripping and engaging, and wonderfully written. Season 3 has GOT to happen. That whole 2 part episode was like a near 90 minute movie in itself and a very good one at that. It would be massively lame if things ended at the finale of season 2.
I think the ratings goin “up” 2 weeks in a row show fox we can grow a audience on fridays.
Hmmm… I wanted to point out that at the end….. John didn’t just go to his mom for comfort. He started crying, she pulled him toward her, and he fell apart.. When he looked at Cameron, I don’t think he was looking for comfort, he didn’t have that longing look in his eyes. I think he was looking at her in realization that she may end up being all he has. Humans are dying, and they are dying for and because of him i.e. his father died protecting his mother for him, his foster parents, Andy Goode, Riley, and so forth. The reason I believe Cameron just sat there is because she didn’t understant what was wrong. She normally doesn’t have reactions to things like that til after she learns what is wrong.
I was not given any reason why Jessie should hate the machines. She wanted to know what was in the box, and when she wasn’t told, she got mad about it. To me, it was all about control. I think she was trying to cover up the mistakes of her crew.
Sarah needs to lay off Cameron just a bit as well. I honestly don’t think her agenda is because of a hot looking girl in her teenage sons life… I think it’s jealousy. John has a profound trust and security in Cameron and I’m thinking Sarah wants to be the only one to provide that. She has no problem using Cameron to her benefit.. And yet, she calls her names and tries to get John to doubt her. Since it didn’t work on John, she’s trying to move on to Cameron. She seems to try and pull out all the stops on it too. However, I think John’s a lot smarter than she’s really giving him credit for. As frustrated as he gets with Cameron, he understands it. Sarah never does. Nor does she try.
Derek’s scene with Jesse was excellent. BAG’s and SJ’s demeanor. That music too.
I could feel Derek’s sadness and anger, aswell as Jesse’s sadness. Did I mention the music?
@Julia
Jessie doesn’t “hate” machines in that sense. But machines to her are the enemies, no exceptions. Queed and Future Cameron acting as if they were higher authority showed her that the machines were in effect controlling humans. She feared that Cameron controlled John and if a machine controls the leader of the humans..the war is pretty much lost.
@Lee, I think the importance of this episode and the switch isn’t really on him fidgeting with it but rather the moment he puts it into his pocket. It was right after Derek said “Complications. That watch has complications”. John realizes he cannot be worrying about the watch and whether or not to blow up Cameron sometime. John had to make up his mind about it asap and his decision was to put the watch away.
A W E S O M E E P I S O D E ! ! !
Thanks to the cast for tremendous acting, thanks to Mr. Friedman for his visions, thanks to FOX - bring another season! It’s worth it!
Hy Guyz!
Only a word about Today is the day pt.2 : AMAZING!
The story is growing faster now, with exciting moments in every episode!
I loved the Jesse - Riley’s history solution, with Riley’s death and Jesse disappearing (Dead? Gone away? i think the first), givin us some solutions about these complicated characters. They were on the scene by a lot of time,hanging around, and they have had a powerful envelopment in the end!
John’s strenght is getting higher, he faced Derek and Jesse, going deep in a situation that he didn’t know till that moment, takin Derek by his side, solving too late Riley’s enigma, and givin instructions to his fighters (in this episode he talked with all of them in a leader way: to Cameron, to Sarah, To Jesse, to Derek).
I don’t understand Jesse’s hate for the machine right now…she had a bad crew, and maybe the only one really affidable under the sea was the captain!
The Cameron -Jesse dialogue is a bit enigmatic…who is that Cameron? What baby is she talking about? Is Cameron’s tactics bringing john in “peace-talks” with machines? Or is a John Connor’s plan?
I think Connor is still alive in the future, Cameron would not be able to conduct a war by human side!
But the real question is : why does Connor decide to sent his best self guard and strategical confident - consuelor back in time?
Maybe because, if every act in the past change and rebuild the future, he decided to sent Cameron because she is the friend more next to him to stop skynet and givin humanity a peaceful future…
Parallels universe and alternate futures are revealing us the real meaning of the show: the faith is not signed, is what you are building right now.
In this dimension, nothing is really sure. We are not sure about season’s ending, not sure about Cameron’s death or deactivating, not sure about John Herny, Mrs. Weaver and John Connor
I’m already waitin next friday ! my god, i love this show.
In the end, i loved Cameron’s scene with pigeon…she looked very satisfied by not have killed it at that moment !
And finally, John Connor discovered pain…it’s the first time he loose someone he was in love with. Sarah was the first. This time touches him too.
But why is he constantly playing with that clock ?!?
It’s really a bit hurting…Cameron hasn’t done anything yet to giustificate her destruction ! And when she lied to him, she did for good reasons, and he know!
Going to the lighthouse, folks !
See ya!
i’m about to make a rare LONG post.
sorry. but there is a lot to think about in these 2 eps.
so you want to know how good these 2 eps were? they actually made me not hate Jesse.
now THAT is some great writing….
[irony]
how about the sarah scene with John reminiscing about the town they lived in??
she said how she felt bad for him. how she wished they hadnt had to move. how he was starting to “blend in and make friends…”
what was his response?
that he hated that town. and he walked off.
Sarah jad missed where he was COMPLETELY. very telling.
then….we find John apologizing to Cam. in front of Sarah and RATHER than Sarah. that was some major humble pie for Ms Conner, eh?.
Jesse telling the chief of the boat to record when she relieved Queeg of his duties, then immediately sent the boat to crush depth.
no need for documenting. lol
how about all pf you the critics busting on Johnall this time for Riley?
yet riley ended up being good for John. she ultimately brought him to where all the critics griped that he needed to be.
to become a future leader that will calculate. that will manipulate. that will not be so “emo”.
lol. the writes pwned you guys.
[/irony]
[the box]
i’m thinking the contents would have killed JC. had they delivered it, JC would have been dead.
Jesse became a great tragic hero in this episode. she actually saved John. and lost herself in the process.
[/the box]
[John's scene with Jesse]
one word - badass.
dood !?! did you realize that JC not only let Jesse know that he knew about the Riley stuff, but that he was letting her know that he had now let Derek know that her goose was cooked??? that he had been tracking Derek as well as Riley?? that she AND Derek were busted.
that Derek now knew that she had been duping him AND using Riley.
…..and JC had known it for some time.
what a freaking epiphany type scene for everyone involved !!!
[/John's scene with Jesse]
[Derek's scene with Jesse]
Derek is the freaking man!!! maybe the best scene ever in this series.
when he tells her to shut-up….and then her voice goes high. Jesse’s emotion is palpable.
“you’re not ‘my Jesse’. you never were..”
he’s saying that the reality is the now. and since Jesse came back in time, she is not “his Jesse”.
wow. just wow.
i truly think you have seen the last of Jesse. plus John knows Derek killed her. you can see him realize it.
[/Derek's scene with Jesse]
[lastly]
Sarah knew he was about to break. and she reached to hold him.
wow.
after all of the aggravation and the missed points re. John’s life. Sarah knew he needed a shoulder. and John knew it as well.
i just shed a tear.
re. Cameron and the bird: i told you so.
there are a lot of birds in the area that have “met their maker”.
lol.
“I AM John Conner”
imagine saying that with the gravity of knowing that you are someone that people know better than you know yourself….JC keeps asking, “what is it that i do?”
what a killer theme.
[/lastly]
sorry for the long winding post.
I think the watch gave John an option he didn’t have before and with it the weight of having to make that type of decision. It may be the toughest choice he will have to make in his personal life. It must be weighing on his mind. With the power comes the responsibility.
I think Cameron was practicing holding birds to test her ability to control her hands. It also gave her a chance to touch something live and interact with a living being, but I don’t think that part was intended, just my thoughts about it. That would be a good question for Summer. Find out what she was trying to portray.
The lamp was puzzling why they would include it twice. People who do that are rather controlling people, trying to control the little things in their world when the big things are getting out of control. Sometimes abused children will turn into neat freaks to try to have some control over their lives. My first thought when Jesse did that was to put the hotel room back in perfect order so Derek would not suspect anything, and this was just a mindless detail while she was waiting for Derek to return. Maybe the maid noticed that the lamp was slightly off it’s normal place since she cleans those same rooms over and over. Then it also showed how we never know what happens in the hotel rooms before we got there. How we don’t know the secrets that the furniture keeps and what energy of a past event could still be in a room. That’s the reason I don’t like hotel rooms, myself. The thought of who stayed there before and what may have happened can be kind of creepy.
Snake and Dan,
It’s part of the military agenda to demonize the enemy to the point of soldiers believing that they are so unlike “us” that they are not worth saving and must be destroyed. How else could a human kill other humans if they didn’t believe that? What if they threw a war and nobody came? The people who start wars are not the people who fight them. Cheney had 5 deferments and Bush went awol from the Guard. They didn’t believe in actually doing the dirty work themselves and when it came their turn to choose war or peace, they chose war and sent someone else to fight it for them. I’m not blaming the soldiers, they are the pawns in the game of world domination. They are the patriots that my heart cries for - they and their families who have to pay the price for others’ greed. Of course you believe in what you are doing, Snake, you have to. I’m sorry that you and your fellow soldiers have been used by men of unscrupulous means. War should never be the first resort, but the LAST. We honor your service. But remember, if you are still in the service, you have a new Commander In Chief now and he deserves your loyalty as a soldier. He’s a good guy with a kind heart and is doing the right thing. Try reading his 3 books yourself and you will see what I mean. Too many have distorted his words and tried to make him out to be a bad guy. It is political propaganda at it’s worst. Like I tell other people, you’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I know this isn’t a political forum, so I won’t say anymore.
Jan
OK I’ve had it: Dan, Snake and Jan, who the frak do you think that you are, imposing your sh*t on everybody else?
STFU with you politic, stop imposing it on everyone. Don’t you have any real consideration for us, for this blog and for the artisans and talent of this show? Many of us here, if not a majority, aren’t even American.
Please stop being so selfish ans so self-centered.
Hi all, from a small country in Europe.
It is not that “easy” to follow the show from here, but i find my ways.
Until now i have been just watching and reading, but after THAT, i have to speak.
What an episode…man!
Congratulations to ALL involved!
After watching it, i just sat still for about 10-15 seconds, tears in my eyes.
BTW did You notice that little movement of hers in the last ep as John turned, and asked back:
“sorry… for what?!”
That humble movement and look of caring…?
Mrs. Summer is (acting) amazing!
All those who complain about missing the action-
there is sooo much more in Terminator as that!
Weaver said “humans will dissapoint you.”
The question is -
Who is evil indeed…?
You real fans do know and feel what i am speaking about.
So, i was just sitting there for a moment, and said to myself nodding:
“That is what i like.
That is real quality!
All my appreciation.”
rgds
The Governator is on TV right now… talking about Cal-ee-fornia and its problems.
John fidgeting with the pocket watch/bomb:
Some were wondering what that meant. He probably is thinking more of it as WHY would Cameron give him something like this?
A pocket watch like that, in olden times, was quite the gift. It was an heirloom to be treasured. It was a GIFT of faith and trust from Cameron… a supposed “unfeeling” machine.
That then brings up the two “I love you’s”… it must weigh heavy on his mind.
This goes back to FutureJohn and his probable amazement with Cameron and why he takes her in and is “taken” with her…
I don’t think it would be logical for the love to be in full bloom in the Future between the two. Cameron still has a lot of growing up to do… as does teenager John.
I think that ties into Cameron saying that John kept things from her to PresentJohn. He may not have come right out and said “yes, right back at ya, Cam!” Though, through intuition she knows that Future-him is hiding his feelings. Maybe it’s their supposed age difference in his mind, as she is in the guise of a younger woman, that holds him back.
The “you love me” line.
Love happening now, in the present, I can see that. It seems to fit better. Maybe John, PresentJohn, being more uninhibited and youthful and brash (and more in keeping with Cameron’s youthful appearance) can be the tipping point where John (any John) finally tells her what she wants to hear:
Just three little words than means she is his EQUAL.
Remember the conversation between one early itineration of Cameron and Jesse? She wants to be seen as John’s equal, but Jesse slaps her back down to size with her snarky remark. Cameron seems to want confirmation from somebody that she is not just a machine…
She is different.
And innocent,
Point taken. No worries.
A FAN.
But it’ FUN to see.
One last thing…
Maybe FutureJohn, in a way, was trying to groom Cameron for his other self, his younger self, knowing that that John could give her what she wants and needs in the past and not the Future. He thought about her future too… because he does love her.
Innocent,
I apologize for bothering you and the others with politics. The next time someone wants to make a political comment, please add a link to an appropriate forum to discuss it, okay.
I agree Innocent. I have stated repeatedly that this is not a political blog and have asked for the political comments to cease. Yet they keep creeping in. I have not initiated any of them but, if necessary I will continue to respond. I would love to respond to some of what has been said but in the hopes that Dan et.al will finally stop the continuous diggs I will refrain from doing so. However, if anyone decides to continue the practice I will exercise my right to respond. STFU applies to both sides.
Let the time-paradox mind-blending commence:
If John sent Cam back to him, seems like it shouldn’t have taken her 60 days to find him in the past. Future John knows pretty much exactly where he was in the past and should have been quite able to land her within a day of finding him. Right? So, my guess is that John didn’t send her back at all. She sent herself back. Or she jumped back to an alternate past (.can you do that???) and John wasn’t where he was supposed to be.
More likely she spends a long time with John in the future and doesn’t know what to do once he eventually dies. She can’t reconcile his death with her programming…the last prime directive became fulfilled. Now what? Kind of like the Genie that was freed from granting wishes. Her logic was to continue to protect John, which meant jumping back in time. Why she picked Teenage John was HER decision, because she knew that John might love her if there was not such an age difference as there had originally been with Future John.
How does Cameron’s expression of free will affect the future? Is it her love for him that ultimately CAUSES Judgement Day? I can think of about 3 ways this could play out as a Season 3 that would be very engaging. Hope we get to explore this world more this Fall.
“GIVE ME ACTION SONNETS AND BIONICLES AND BABY PUPPIES!”
Donavan, I loved your post, very funny. I know where you’re coming from and agree that we had hit a dry spell after the break. But, the drama in this episode was obviously leading somewhere. The scenes with JC and Derek show him coming to the realization that it is his job to take the fight to skynet. His comment to Jesse “I AM John Connor” tells me he has now got a grip on his responsibility and will act as the soldier and leader he has to be. This all seems to be leading up to the action we want. But action must have context as well. I think the last few eps, which have been truly gripping, are leading up to a great finale.
Sorry, that should be “griping”.
Well guys, thank you for reacting so well.
Snake: we have the word of Dan and Jan.
Also, please bear with me just a bit: we all have political opinions. Some of us, me for example, may very well be as fervent about them as you are about yours. Nevertheless most of us refrained completely to react as it is the first thing to do to ensure peace: would you consider making the same kind of sacrifice for the sake of this nice blog?
With the warmest regards to you three.
Jean
When i watchet this episode i got so excited that i made a fan video
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lTE2Xj02sY&feature=channel_page
I hope i don’t spam with this
This is the best TV Show ever,we need season 3
Yes Jean I am happy to abide with the truce. I will not initiate any political commentary. In fact I would like to take it a step further and ask Hadley to ban anyone from the blog that feels the need to inject extraneous political musings whether by inuendo or directly. I come here to get my mind off of things and enjoy this forum. I would love to go back to that.
Hadley, is this something you would support? I hate to lay this on you but it might be productive.
Regards
On the count of three… everyone can refrain from political discussions.
1…2…5…
I mean 3… 3!!!!
Thus I lobbeth the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at the rabbit, who, being naughty in my sight… shall snuff it!
Wha? It’s just a little bunny! You tit! I soiled my armor I was so scared!
That’s no ordinary rabbit! It has a vicious streak a mile wide!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
AI B Bach,
you make a strong point and, unless we can explain the 60 days search for John, it becomes very difficult to counter your argument to the effect that John didn’t send Cam in the past. Personally, I can’t conceive alternate pasts without opening a can of parallel universes… no thanks, I’m full.
Hi all, from a small country in Europe.
It is not that “easy” to follow the show from here, but i find my ways.
Until now i have been just watching and reading, but after THAT, i have to speak.
What an episode…man!
Congratulations to ALL involved!
After watching it, i just sat still for about 10-15 seconds, tears in my eyes.
BTW did You notice that little movement of Cam in the last ep as John turned, and asked back:
“sorry… for what?!”
That humble movement and look of caring…?
Mrs. Summer is (acting) amazing!
All those who complain about missing the action-
there is sooo much more in Terminator as that!
Weaver said “humans will dissapoint you.”
The question is -
Who is evil indeed…?
You real fans do know and feel what i am speaking about.
So, i was just sitting there for a moment, and said to myself nodding:
“That is what i like.
That is real quality!
All my appreciation.”
rgds
Innocent,
I always thought that Cameron sent herself back, for some mysterious reason. That’s true, why else would she have to search for John for 70+ days? She only had a vague idea of where he might be in the past.
That would mean, to me anyway, that she had to get the hell out of Dodge (the Future) in a mighty big hurry. Set a general time and place (no time to figure things out), strip, jump into the transport unit and hit the red “GO” button.
Seek thee, my previous posts on the matter. Numerous times myself and others have thought that John was killed and Cameron escapes to find him again because she wants to be with him and can’t if he (and possibly she herself) is dead.
——–
Now as for John Henry…
What did he say? He painted the eyes on the figurine blue. They are the “windows to the soul.”
Whose eyes flash blue?
Cameron’s.
What else did he say? “My monster is incomplete.”
He may be foreshadowing his creation of Cameron in The Future… she is his golem. She turns her back on her creator: The Turk/John Henry (the new Skynet, which was not based on Andy Goode’s and Miles Dyson’s Cyberdyne version) and fights alongside John and the resistance.
Cameron seems to be missing something… she is incomplete. Could it be? Could it possibly be… LOVE?
What was the Tin Man searching for, only to discover he had it all along? A heart.
Cameron to be JH Golem: seductive idea
With all those potential developments, where to fit two car chases, three gunfights, one dogfight from the future, on gutting and one fingernail-on-a-blackboard moment, per episode, so Donavan and al will be content too?
OK, I will read all 250 comments before tonight but, for the moment, I apologize if this has been submitted:
once JH told CW that looking into her eyes he saw nothing; we must conclude that in his opinion she has no soul. However, as machine as he himself is, he doesn’t seem to be phased out by the corollary that would imply that he, himself, has no soul. Is he still hoping to be a creature of God? Does he consider himself this much different from CW?
Oh God!
My wish that I could see the remaining eps right away in a mini-marathon is tempered only by the consideration that then we would have to wait, at the very least until September or forever for a new T:SCC fix.
Innocent:
CW “creates” John Henry based on The Turk platform (who likes to play chess), John Henry sees himself as more than CW.
John Henry is CW’s golem of mythology. He turns on her. He is also a singularity. He goes against the light.
John Henry goes on to create Cameron, his golem, his pawn, then use her against John Connor (his chess opponent). She turns on him and falls for John Connor.
John Henry has just created a new singularity… Cameron. She goes against the light.
Cameron is superior to John Henry. She only needs the final piece (that John Henry did not have yet) to make her complete, to make her whole:
Love.
Find that… and you stop Judgment Day.
OK, I’ll buy much of it but there is one point that remains unexplained: why didn’t JC destroyed the killer of Allison right away?
Cameron is ‘modeled’ should we say, for the least, on Allison which, we know, was special to JC; how can it be that JC did not want to kill the machine that murdered Allison and took her appearance for the most vicious reasons? Even more puzzling is the fact that he made her his assistant. Has he really become this cold and calculating or is there enough of Allison in Cam, apart from the looks, for JC to want to save it at any personal cost?
Here’s another 70’s rock ballad in the same vein as “Tin Man” and “Jackie Blue”…
Atlanta Rhythm Section: “Do It Or Die”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN_pkXOlnAo
—-
Dipping into the 80’s for John and Cameron…
Bruce Hornsby and the Range: “Mandolin Rain”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aClNsGhgZQ
“Listen to the mandolin rain
Listen to the music on the lake
Ah, listen to my heart break, every time she runs away
Oh, listen to the banjo wind
A sad song drifting low
Listen to the tears roll
Down my face as she turns to go…”
Innocent,
Why did John spare Jesse, who murdered Riley (a friend, maybe not his “love”)?
It’s the same thing as Cameron once he finds out she killed Allison.
He is not a monster.
John sparing Cameron, perhaps, changes him in her eyes.
He is not what she (and Skynet) originally thought he was.
Maybe it starts her on a different path to salvation. Something that could not come for Jesse.
To Josh and Company…
I was just clued into a very fun and special day, March 22nd…
Maurice LaMarche, the voice of “The Brain” and various other famous cartoon characters on Futurama and other shows, has declared today:
“International Talk Like William Shatner Day”
This is in dedication to William Shatner’s birthday. He is 78 years young today!
Don’t know how to talk like and yes, even be William Shatner?
Here are some pointers from Maurice himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJOaqsBXAc
Now… yeu too can pick… up… green alien… chicks, and be a… super stud.
Have at…it… Chroniclers!
Kirk.
Out.
@Dan H
John (tho not Derek) spared Jesse for two reasons - he explained one, “If I have to live with it, so do you” and the other was that John Connor could not be seen/known to summarily execute traitors. There should be some kind of due process. That’s why Derek said, “John Connor let her go.” (Jesse was quite rightly pissed at Queeg for summary execution, note.)
John wouldn’t blame Cameron for killing Alison. Cameron is a Terminator, killing is what a Terminator does. It is a Terminator’s nature. You can’t blame a Terminator for killing, that’s crazy. John is smarter than that.
Cameron was reprogrammed by the Chip Techs - or perhaps by (a) future John personally. What Cameron thinks was programmed into her, either by Skynet or the Chip Techs / future John (or elements of both depending on exactly how the tame Terminator thing works).
I have been thinking of Cameron - no, not that like that… We have seen the Cameron repairs the metal parts using replacement parts taken from T888s. Cameron’s chip assembly looks physically identical to the one from a T888. So what is different about Cameron? Whatever it is, Cameron isn’t so different the Chip Techs can’t reprogram her.
It appears, however, Cameron has suggested she is kind of intermediate step between a T888 and a T1000 (which John and Sarah have already seen and Jesse talked about). Perhaps the biological parts have some T1000 polymimetic ability? It would explain why her biological components can stand such punishment (the T800 in “Terminator” started rotting away after he’d been damaged). It would also explain how Cameron has some kind of ability for at least a limited amount of eating and drinking. Or is it simply that Cameron’s programming is in some way different but not different enough to prevent reprogramming? After reprogramming what does this difference still mean?
We need to see more about Alison from Palmdale and how that led to Cameron.
The end of this season will be damn awesome, i can barely wait to see 20 episode. Probably, one of most exciting episodes of all the 2 seasons.
Maybe Derek or Cameron got hurt or something like else, to be honest, i’m not very interested in the “dark side of John Henry”… so far, it’s be quit boring and his development has been slow.
Cameron just did what she had been programmed to do when she killed Allison, if she had killed Riley it would have been for the same reason. John knows that, she is a machine, a tool, a weapon, an asset.
I was going through the older episodes looking for when John knew where Riley came from. He may have known before Mexico but I think the absolute latest was when Riley was talking about the bear poster not being about the bear, it was about the fish. I think if he didn’t know before that, that is when it all hit him. Her despair was obvious and he recognized where it had come from. That is why he suddenly got up and left.
Innocent, the possibility of parrallel universes is common in string theory where there are 11 descript dimensions. But, this does not change the tennants of quantum mechanics that dictate that you cannot observe a system without changing the system. Therefore, the fact that the act of time travel changes the system requires a parallel dimension to explain the disruption of the continuum.
@John Pate
That only works if…
John actually reprogrammed her.
Cameron thought John tried to fix her twice…
Once was the chip.
Guess what?
He only cleaned off the dust. He never even touched her software.
She’s different.
Like William Shatner. LOL!
I think this was by far the best episode this series ever produced. Not because there was pulse-pounding, adrenaline-filled action sequences; it wasn’t. Was there some cool effects? Hell yeah… who knew Skynet had eel-like T-100x’s under their belt too. That thing, to me, is even more scary than Ms. Manson’s T-1001 or Robert Patrick’s T-1000. Queeg’s destruction scene could’ve had some more action… he could’ve put up some kind of fight maybe. But like Derek said… aim for the chip and they won’t get up. Besides that, there wasn’t a hell of alot of action this week. But there was drama… and it was, as some people said before, palpable. Raw emotions all around this week. John Henry wanting to be Ellison’s friend (which will probably allow for him to eventually reveal to his new friend that Weaver’s eyes have no “window”), Sarah discovering she was wrong about Riley and John being pissed at her… but in the end, John still needs a compassionate shoulder to cry on. And his mother’s the only one who truly understands him. She knows he needs her, even if it isn’t always obvious. She’d never turn away from him. Also, John losing some faith in Derek after finding out who he’s been hiding from her; Derek losing all faith in Jesse after he opens his own eyes; John and Jesse’s face-to-face confrontation. BTW, I thought John’s decision not to kill her was brilliant. Survivor’s guilt isn’t always good, but we’re talking about the murder of an INNOCENT human being here. Then Derek’s goodbye to Jesse… would’ve been perfect had that awful music not been playing in the BG. Nice callback to Billy Wisher/Andy Goode and to “Complications” (the idea that they came from alternate futures). All around fantastic, brilliant episode that perfectly captured the ongoing themes of this series: courage, fate, destiny, time, hope, love, loss, betrayal, and of a boy named John Baum becoming a man named John Connor.
@Dan H
Nope, you’re talking about now, I’m talking about Cameron in the future who came back after being with future John. She was reprogrammed or she would not have been in the complex - unless we assume she’d infiltrated the complex pretending to be Alison, jumped back pretending to have been sent by John, then the future Cameron’s we have seen are the Camerons from now and not Camerons before they jumped back to now. But, if she’s the Cameron who killed Alison who either made it into the complex to future John, or back in time to the now John, she would be an un-reprogrammed Terminator and so would Terminate John at the first opportunity. So, we deduce Cameron is a reprogrammed Terminator and my questions still stand.
Yes, back now all John’s done was to wipe the chip with a grubby cloth and poke around in Cameron’s arm with a screwdriver. He did, however, spend quite some time studying Vick’s chip and get some lessons on the chip’s workings from Cameron. And Cameron did have a trip into the traffic light system.
The Shat rules! All hail the Shat!
Snake,
I am not a physicist but I have some scientific education which makes me favor the simpler explanation which takes all questions into account. Let’s also not forget that we are discussing about a story, not reality. I see no need for more than one time line which can get remodeled by time travelers. These can remember different time lines but only one is enough to explain everything, not many, since it is variable. No need really for ‘alternates’; if anything, having too many pasts and futures would be detrimental to the story, making it impossible to have a dramatic progression and, eventually, even a temporary conclusion.
John,
by your solid reasoning you are explaining well the future Cameron and her re-programming. What do you think is happening at this time (2009) to the damaged Cameron, to that robot who doubts herself, who fights her programming, who doesn’t know more often than she does know?
@John Pate,
If you’ve read up a ways (and there is a lot to sift through), I mentioned that I don’t think this John or Future John tinkered much with Cameron’s chip at all, now or in the future.
Why?
Because she’s different.
Cameron, for whatever purpose, killed and then emulated Allison Young to get into the camp. Was it to kill John? Was it to STOP a plot that would get John killed?
We don’t know Allison’s role in all this yet.
All we know is that Cameron says she admires John Connor. Hmmm… a Terminator who “admires” John. That doesn’t sound very machine-like to me.
However she does it, Cameron gets into the camp… and John figures out what’s going on… or had some idea this was going to occur (different time lines, again?).
I’m sure his “boys” capture her and “rough her up” before John can intervene.
Cameron is under the impression that humans are unworthy, much like CW, and can only act a certain way. John proves this to be wrong… by sparing Cameron’s life.
She’s “only” a machine, and yet John Connor, the leader of the humans… shows mercy. He probably then talks with her and gets to know her with questions and conversations. He is curious about this particular killer, and how she ticks. John’s opinion of Cameron changes.
Cameron’s opinion of John… changes as well.
As you can see… no programming has occurred.
Cameron still has a “terminate John Connor” mode in her. If John reprogrammed her… it would be gone, scrubbed clean.
Cameron’s love for John is her own, just as much as her will to override her directive of killing him.
John sees this, knows this.
She crosses against the light. She does not need to be reprogrammed. She can do it herself.
The window to the soul is painted blue, the eyes, according to John Henry. Cameron’s eyes are blue when they glow, not brown, not red, not yellow.
Catch the subtle symbolism?
Oh, and Skynet’s T-888 could not clock Cameron’s model.
She was UNKNOWN. She is The Turk’s model, not Cyberdyne’s Skynet model as the evil Terminators are who are floating around on their mission of destruction.
I still like the possibilty that Cameron is harboring part of Allisons brain in her skull. Since Terminators can support human tissue it would be consistent with the story and since cybernetic chips already exist it is a plausible story line. It also makes the possibility of a relationship less repugnant to those who dislike the concept. If there is a human brain or hybrid of some sort then Cameron just has a whole body prosthesis (sp) and there is humanity in her.
yeah, i agree with your last comments about cameron
Its clear that she can reprogram herself in very moments, as we know by her check in some moments (Samson & Delilah). So, it’s useful reprogramming her by formatting her chip (no explanation about how it is done by resistance’s technicians yet).
In Cam’s head killing john connor program is present yet, but she can…decide not to going through it. It seems so. When se tryied this, she was heavily wounded, and not in control of herself.
Maybe, her “fear” about the glitch is this : she fears to loose her will. The same will that makes her a Terminator like no other. A special model, with high comprehension - learning ability. A terminator that feels something in confront of people, and animals.
It’s possible that John Connor didn’t touch her software; and this is the reason why Connor sent a message to machines about join human resistance. So, we understand that machines have decisional ability, can take a choose, can evaluate and reasoning about a situation, and make their plan.
Maybe Cam doesn’t have a obscure mission by the future. Maybe, since she’s here in 2007, she’s reasoning about what to do for protecting John and hunting skynet, but also facing all the other problems day by day,like Sarah’s ostility, Derek’s hate, John’s diffidence.
TSCC Terminator are most advanced in confront of T1 and T2 ones.
And in Salvation, we have humans changed in machines…or it seems
What do you think about this?
I cried man-tears at the end. That was some awesome drama!
The “tech’s” as you put it, I feel, never touched Cameron, just as John didn’t.
Maybe John lied to her and said that he did something to “help.” Just like The Wizard of Oz at the beginning of the story. It’s like a placebo for an ill person. You make yourself well by the power of suggestion.
How would she react to being told that everything happening to her was of her own making?
John did nothing?
A couple of things I’ve wanted to say in response to some prior posts:
A few of you seem surprised by Jesse’s decision to scuttle the sub once she realizes who is in charge of the mission. She had been at-ease, even ‘comfortable’ with the choice of Queeg being in charge. It isn’t until she learns what was in the box that she decides to assume command. Ironically, she does this to protect J.C. back at Serrano Point. She realizes that although the mission may indeed be unfathomable, it might also be a trick (on the part of the machines). Up until the point of Queeg’s last stand (where even machine logic went out the porthole), it is Jesse who had no problem trusting machines to perform as programmed, and it is she who is constantly reminded by her comrades that THEY CAN’T BE TRUSTED. What is ALSO ironic, is that she is debriefed my Cameron, NOT J.C. I think this is the turning point for Jesse, because she has an epiphany that if her superior is a machine - something has gone terribly wrong. believe that this is the motivating factor behind her journey through time. Her mission? To convince the Connor in the future that HUMANS - not machines, are irreplaceable. The final irony? Connor in the hotel room, telling her that exact ideal! That esse’s mission was for naught, and that Cameron’s place as protector bears little to no influence on that ideal. THAT, my friends, is when I felt BAAAAAAAAD for Jesse. The road to HELL is paved with Goode intentions. :^D
EXCELLENT post, Dan.
The power of suggestion is a powerful one indeed. I couldn’t help but feel that J.C.’s renewed faith in Cameron is what stabilizes her glitch. It seemed to me that that pigeon was indeed safe in her hands. It seemed to me that She was testing her own resolve by holding those birds. How do we believe i ourselves when the ones we love don’t believe in us? Touche, D.H. - touche!
I would also like to honor the passing of another dearly departed friend. R.I.P. BSG. So - say - we - all…
Preview of “To the lighthouse” on sarahconnorsociety.net in case you hadn’t noticed.
Wowwowowowowowwow!!
Just amazing. I was watching the scene between John and Jesse, and I was thinking that a) this is the first time they’ve done a scene b) i haven’t seen acting this electric in awhile. And then, Jesse and Derek top it!!!
That was special. Shows like this don’t seem to get nominated for acting Emmy’s, but this episode is definitely worthy of one.
yeah , John and Jesse’s scene was great !
He faced her and acted like a true leader.
As you say, there’s something electric: his behavior is serious, nervous, not only because riley’s death, but because he’s facing human nature’s dark side: using others for our purpose.
And Riley was killed by one of his fghters. What a tragic joke for a guy who had his life brutalized by machines, by hies mother’s terror about them.
Lighthouse preview is interesting: Derek and Cameron together for the first time (i think…). It’s gonna be funny !
I think in episode’s ed Cameron controlled her glitch…pigeon was alive! Maybe, TSCC in the end will reveal as Cameron’s initiatons on the way for her self determination. For doing what…i dont’ know really!
Yeah!
I too was wondering… if only most of the episodes in S2 had had this kind of electric energy in the acting, not that it was bad or the actors didn’t give it their all, but it just wasn’t wrapped around really meaty stories for a lot of this season.
The show needed to start finding its footing and its voice again (after S&D). And it seems to be on its way to a course correction.
It would be a shame to be cut short now.
Hey writer-types…
It would be a trip to see the reprogramming process in the future. Kind of like breaking wild bulls. There’d have to be a crew of elites who’s job it is to lure Metal into a chute of some sort and then plasma stun them down. They then get 2 minutes to get on top of the dude, cut in, and de-chip ‘em. I think they should have to raise their hand to signal that it’s done - an homage to a roper’s signal in a rodeo. Maybe they drop in a generic programmed chip so they can get them to walk off the battlefield? Or else they’d have to schlep the bastard out somehow.
It’d be cool to see the various uses that they end up in too. A reprogrammed T-888 might return to SkyNet and then suddenly start wasting the place once inside. A bit like a suicide bomber…
On second thought, that creeps me out, big time. If done carefully, though, it could make for quite a introspective episode, exploring the moral questions surrounding the tactics of insurrection.
Franz,
I always said…
Find your heart and you stop Judgment Day. It really doesn’t have to occur.
ehi Dan…
probably you’re right about heart….but if it will be so, it’s gonna be a sad ending.
Or maybe, they will be happy in that way, knowing each other’s “love” and respect without nothing else.
a perfect couple!
I also think that these stories are takin us back on the main questions, after some episode a bit unfocused
Riley-Jesse story was long, and all that we knew ,we got in the two final episodes…but these are writer’s choose, not mine.
And i respect them, also because they have a direction to follow, as it seems clear by these last episodes.
These episodes were not a “solution” for some fan’s claims, but the well -predicted final struggle of T2. Really great episodes !
Al. B. Bach,
I think it would be much more poignant if, as I’ve stated above, that all John did to Cameron was spare her, show her a kindness, and they get to know each other.
At first, she’s under lock down, then under supervision, and then slowly, ever so slowly she and John strike up a rapport with each other. Not a reprogramming in sight.
The ultimate show of faith that Cameron finally shows to John after all this? He needs to study her chip, promises not to hurt her or change anything, and she lets him take it out, and examine it.
Literally, her life is in his hands. And he finds something wondrous.
He puts the chip back in and he asks her to do a self diagnostic to see if what he said was true. And she finds that he is a man of his word. Again, CW was wrong.
He spared her life when she was caught and he shows that her trust and faith is warranted. Cameron goes from admiration to some feelings for him.
That then shows up as the scene where she gives John control over her very life.
The pocket watch.
What Cameron suspects, but FutureJohn does not outright say, after they’ve spent some time together and formed a bond… that John is falling for her as much as she is him.
The humans under John’s command, in order to put them at ease, are told that he has re-programmed Cameron… when that is a lie.
It makes perfect sense to me.
OMG
The dead girl that the T-1000 took the form of was in the background while Dietz was accusing the ‘not hungry’ guy of being metal!
That doesn’t surprise me.
CW (the T-1001) saw that humans could turn on their own and be a lesser species when push comes to shove. They accuse each other, fight with each other, hurt each other, and will abandon the T-1001 to die (or so they think) to save themselves.
They will disappoint you. As Derek found out, as John found out.
That’s probably one reason why he stated that Cameron was, in his mind, irreplaceable. Cameron was telling the truth. The only person around him who was. Derek didn’t, Jesse didn’t, Riley didn’t, and who knows what Sarah is thinking.
And John had doubted Cameron and trusted the others.
As Cameron put it, in a way only she can (cut through the BS), humans are the problem.
Two “happy” songs after this long, deep discussion:
Bellamy Brothers: “Let Your Love Flow”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJEY0iZCY0
—–
Bonnie Somerville: “Winding Road”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FltWB3jwxM
@invisiblepenguin: I think that was the other woman on the crew in the background during the lunch scene, not the T100X (You had me all excited there for a minute and I had to go back and check!)
But…!
I suspect the T100X was watching/listening to what was going on with the crew the whole time. Perhaps after the box-opening incident, it realized that Dietz, a subordinate, had opened it without permission and appeared to be a bad apple (humans aren’t perfect, after all). It wasn’t until after Jesse, the ranking human, killed her metal superior officer for following orders that she was not privvy to and downed the boat that the T100X answered John’s question. That also pretty much answers the question as to whether the T was just an emissary or on a mission to kill John. If it wanted John dead, it could have very easily killed and replaced Jesse since she was the last one to leave the boat. But it didn’t… it simply left.
So, a show of hands.
Who all thinks that the crew brought on board a…
Weaver-in-the-Box?
@ Dan:
The evidence is mounting that it was, so I’ll just raise my hand 3 quarters
The sign of a great show is if your watching the ep every day and still talking about it!!! We better get a S3!!!!
LOL I actually thought the guys T-shirt said Skynet…upon watching it again it really says Skyline. Oops.
Actually I was waiting to see if Jesse would lie to Cameron about the answer she gave. I’m glad she didn’t.
Have I mentioned I’m still on a Jameron high!!!!
Has anyone noticed this: if you go back to Allison From Palmdale ep watch the first few minutes when Alison is running in the tunnels you will hear the sound of metal after her. Yet when she’s at the door, trying to open it, suddenly you see flashlights bouncing off the walls that would indicate humans are after her? What do you make of this?!?!
“I always thought that Cameron sent herself back, for some mysterious reason. That’s true, why else would she have to search for John for 70+ days? She only had a vague idea of where he might be in the past.
That would mean, to me anyway, that she had to get the hell out of Dodge (the Future) in a mighty big hurry. Set a general time and place (no time to figure things out), strip, jump into the transport unit and hit the red “GO” button.-Dan”
LOL I don’t know why but that just had me laughing like crazy!!!
I guess the Dodge comment because of product placement in the show. Now if your in a hurry to tme travel do you really strip?!?!? I’m just saying,. Oh its been a long day.
The 60 days comment…could also be that she is lying to Sarah. Just like I really don’t see Cameron taking orders from future John. If they are suppose to be equals I don’t see him ordering her around at least not like that.
Or she was busy getting things together. I mean if I was her I’d double check to see that everything in the bank vault was there. Or some other things were in tacked. Plus she has to get her new identity. You don’t’ know where she jumped from so she had to travel there.
“Now as for John Henry…
What did he say? He painted the eyes on the figurine blue. They are the “windows to the soul.” Whose eyes flash blue? Cameron’s.
What else did he say? “My monster is incomplete.”
He may be foreshadowing his creation of Cameron in The Future… she is his golem. She turns her back on her creator: The Turk/John Henry (the new Skynet, which was not based on Andy Goode’s and Miles Dyson’s Cyberdyne version) and fights alongside John and the resistance.
Cameron seems to be missing something… she is incomplete. Could it be? Could it possibly be… LOVE?
What was the Tin Man searching for, only to discover he had it all along? A heart.-Dan”
Blinks, blinks again.
Dan you Jameron fan you!
Caught the first part but love the second part!!! I did find that monster is incomplete sentence a little odd after watching this ep 12 times. I’m hooked I know.
John Pate I think I need a diagram for your Cameron time travel talk. I know what your saying but I feel the need to draw little arrows at the number of futures and Cameron’s we might have running around. LOL!!
LOL love the placebo effect idea on Cameron.
Well here’s my question…in S&D Cameron looks to Sarkission first, not John. Shouldn’t she have clued in on John in the first place because she knows what he looks like and is order to terminate him.
And just buy cleaning a chip that makes her override her programming…I don’t think so.
Allison from Palmdale. Cameron thinks she’s human and does not recognize John. When it clicks that she’s a robot she makes a comment about putting John’s head on a pike for all to see. Yet when John comes in at the end she immediately clicks back to protect John. No head on a pike demand. Why? Why the sudden jump from kill John to protect him. Happened pretty fast in my opinion. We need more info on Allison…hopefully in S3…RIGHT!!!! There better be a S3!!!
Kea, you say that you can’t see JC ordering her around but if you look at every episode where Sarah John and Cameron are together, Cameron always looks to JC for approval before she makes a move. In the scene where Sarah is going to tell John about Riley’s death John and Cameron are looking like two guilty teenagers who just hid a bunch of robot parts. Then when Sarah says she needs to talk to John alone Cameron looks at John and doesn’t move until he gives her a nod.
I’ve noticed this recurring theme in the show. There is definitely something in her that makes her accept John authority. I don’t know what that is but it’s there.
Here’s my take…
@Kea (12 times?? Seriously?? I thought I was obsessive!! LOL!! You probably don’t have any kids… neither do I, but if you did I’d be worried for their nurturing and upbringing.
)
We don’t understand Allison yet. Is she good? Is she bad? Is she a bit of both? What side is she really on? How does John know or not know her?
Do we really understand what we saw in AfP? Remember, Cameron didn’t know if she was Cameron or Allison. We may have gotten a fractured and possibly incomplete memory.
Basically, the flashback/forward could have been as messed up as Cameron’s mental state.
Who was interrogating whom? And if it still was Cameron trying to get data on Allison to become her, was she trying to get into the camp to harm John or stop something from going down that could end his life? Cameron did say she admired him.
Let’s take the extreme view that Cameron originally did want to hang his head on a pike for all to see. It still goes back to my suppositions above that Cameron was working from a Skynet mindset on John and humans in general.
She gets in to the camp, meets John… and John spares her life.
Why?
This goes back to how Cameron might be able to override her “Terminate John Connor” command: will power. She is making up the rules. John never reprogrammed her to do his bidding.
Cameron chose to side with John… to love John instead and to be with him for all time. That’s dedication for you!
Cameron, again, would be another singularity (I believe) created by John Henry… his golem (I’m repeating myself, but it bears repeating). FutureJohn, after getting to know this would-be assassin, would probably have the intuition to see that.
So… why touch her software? Cameron is doing fine without his intervention.
Cameron “programs” herself and allows herself to cross against the lights.
As for her actions in S&D, she is rattled and the “Terminate John Connor” subroutine (her original mission) and has a blow to the head… she’s like an amnesiac.
The hard reboot of John taking out the chip (he does nothing to it… he can’t) and reinserting it jogs her memories back and she says to herself: oopsie! I love the stupid meatbag, so I better not kill him.
This override means something. She willingly changed her mind… and re-tooled her own software.
Self Awareness, not programming, is the key IMHO.
John looks into her eyes and sees… her soul (it’s blue, baby!). John Henry looks into Catherine’s and sees… nothing.
You thought John Henry and Catherine were advanced? You’ve been smoking wacky tobaccy.
Cameron’s the advanced one.
Snake,
She admires him and she defers to him in a hierarchical sense. John is the leader. She wants him to be the leader he must be. That’s why she watches (look at her face… it’s almost proud) in the shadows at the military academy grounds to see him take the bull by the horns and make decisions, make the call (for good or ill)… as he should.
It’s not because he’s a man or a human, or anything like that.
She is the second in command in the Future “military” structure. This rubs Sarah the wrong way, besides her losing her boy to a hot, sexy machine… who makes more Vulcan-like logical calls (not always in the most humane fashion, by killing in cold blood) than Sarah or even John sometimes (the burning of the parts she needs for repairs). Sarah is soooo jealous. Almost to the point of being freaky; far more freaky than Cameron!
Derek does not follow John’s orders, he’s more rogue than Cam sometimes.
We so need an edit button.
Snake yes I did see that. And talk about looking like two guilty teenagers in that scene. LOL!! The thing I had in my mind while I was writing was from S1 when Sarah asks Cameron if she takes orders…from John (ep 2) or Ep 3 when John orders her to let him go to save the girl. Maybe orders would be the wrong term more like as you said referring to John’s authority when she want’s to. Maybe as you pointed out this only happens when those three are together. Cameron acts different depending on who’s around her.
I mean John tells Cameron to leave Ellison alone and well the guy ate the table in the end and she didn’t let go immediately.
The orders I’m talking about would be instant. Let go, she lets go. Drop that…she drops it. Haven’t really seen that…and don‘t really want to see that.
So I wonder if she was lying to Sarah about the orders. And I think when she does bring up orders like keeping spare parts that it’s a lie or a fib. Who’s going to challenge her on that?
I mean keeping spare parts makes sense. They (metal) are good at repairing themselves, I don’t see why she would need orders to do this if she ever got orders like that in the first place and 3rd you know Cameron doesn’t keep all her spare parts in one eggs basket.
Sorry if that didn’t come out clear. I have got to stop typing when I’m sick. LOL.
@Dan
First off, how often do you check this site, dude? Hadley can take a much deserved vacation knowing that you’re here minding the store 24/7!
About my reprogramming scenes (earlier post)…I was referring to the various trip8’s that seem to be re-allocated to support the Resistance by JC in the future. Sounds like there may be a group dedicated to corralling T888’s and scrubbing them. It’d be interesting to learn more about the process. That’s what I was saying. I hear you about the whole Virgin Cameron story, though. Divine enlightenment, and all that. Pinocchio remake with a coltan girl instead of a wooden boy. interesting, but little too saccharin for a Terminator storyline, imo.
@Kea, I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one uncharacteristically addicted to this show. And it’s definitely nice to hear the female POV on the blog. Thanks for giving me some things to think about. I agree that AFP was a pivotal ep that needs to be revisited in flashback form or something. Too many inconsistencies…either that or there were just bits edited out that would likely smooth over the gaps.
@Josh, it would be very cool if you could utilize some of the S1 & S2 footage that never made the final episodes as flashback source material. Even if it’s just B-roll while someone tells the story. Listening to long monologues like JC’s explanation of how he pegged Riley early on and knew about Jesse (and presumably then Derek’s connection to her) could have been more engaging with a video montage accompaniment to the monologue. And I think it would also be nice to hear more of the conversation between JC and Derek in the car. The talk about Derek’s future. I mean, JC finds out there’s this woman that CAME BACK IN TIME and yet he doesn’t seem the least bit interested in her. I mean, somebody authorized/enabled her trip. That alone is a question that JC or Derek should have asked. We can likely assume it wasn’t Future John…so who was it, then? Fisher came back courtesy of SkyNet, right? I believe that thus far we know that time-travel is gated by JC and SkyNet. So who did Jesse side with to get passage? OR….did she run into the T1000 on her way out after being de-briefed by Cameron (that sounds somehow naughty) and knowingly or unwittingly wound up making a deal with the devil? so to speak.
Are Jesse and Weaver on the same team? Is Jesse’s purpose from Weaver’s POV really just to serve as a GPS location tracker for JC and Cam? So that when Weaver is ready she knows where to find Cam?
This show had better get picked up, or I’m gonna have to write the S3 episodes my damn self and tie all this stuff together so I don’t go nuts obsessing over it!!
@Al B. Bach,
Jesse was helped by some of her bubblehead comrades, who are sympathetic to the cause of anti-metal.
Oh, and I don’t sleep… I multi-task on the computer as I’m doing other things for a couple clients.
LOL Thanks Dan. What I can’t be nurturing!!!! LOL!!! Well I did not watch it 12 times in a row if that‘s what your asking. Once live then I watched it again. And a few more times on…well you get the idea. A few parts here and there. I was sick what else was I going to do? I was hoping TSCC would Terminate my cold…it didn’t but I tired.
I agree we need a lot more info on Alison and her role in all of this. Plus I wouldn’t mind seeing John try a second attempt at talking to Alison considering the first time he ended up as pancake into the wall…ummmm pancake. Great now I’m hungry and thinking of Jameron!!
Oh man…long night!!!
“I love the stupid meatbag, so I better not kill him.-Dan”
LOL A true Jameron statement if I ever did read one!!!
And I agree with your statement about Cameron in that she is a
singularity that she has self awareness and is in a way the golem.
I love all these back references. No wonder Cameron is my favorite character. So much to think about and she can flatten you in a second. There better be a Season 3!!!
Al B. Bach Glad to be the ‘female POV’ on the blog!!! Yeah I have an official title.
Its always interesting to see who takes what away from an ep. And to see what stands out and what doesn’t. I actually had noticed that John was wearing a necklace (I thought they were dog tags) when the 4 minute prom aired. LOL!! It just stood out for me.
I’m amazed that I love this show. I was never into the terminator movies. I mean I watched them and I liked T1 and T2, T3…is a blank to me…which is good. But I never thought when I started to watch this show that I would be this hooked on anything terminator but TSCC has proven me wrong. I find the character of Cameron so intriguing and that is why I kept watching. Not to mention the Jameron goodness…but I digress.
And lets face it a well written show like this is hard to come by now a days so when you find one you stick to it. Not to mention this show requires multiple viewings to get everything and it’s a show you want to watch again because you always pick up something new. That’s the kind of show I like.
Allison From Palmdale had so many things going for it. There was so much in that ep that we really need to explore that one further. Did you also notice that Alison doesn’t really sink or float…so the question becomes was she human or robotic? The questions alone for that ep just demand a S3!! I would have loved to have seen Cameron eat when she thought she was Allison.
And that ep also had some really cute bloopers.
The baby that was born had a future date on the card, Cameron is suppose to put her last name first so Young, Alison but instead she writes Alison, Young.
Speaking of Jesse besides whoever sent her back why was Jesse she injured when she meets Derek in the present? I mean we know what she tells Derek but what’s the truth with her? I actually considered that it was from the U-boat incident but that scar was just to big. Thoughts?
“This show had better get picked up, or I’m gonna have to write the S3 episodes my damn self and tie all this stuff together so I don’t go nuts obsessing over it!!-Al B. Bach ”
You said it…and you do know that writing fan fiction…another sign of TSCC addiction.
I see your point now Kea, and I hope you feel better soon.
A lot of you are saying that Sarah should lay off Cameron, that she’s jealous of her and she’s being a bitch. Have you guys forgotten that Sarah’s life was practically ruined because of the machines? How would you feel about metal if they killed your mother and best friend? How would you feel if metal was trying to kill you and your son? Sarah has every right not to trust metal even if her own son does. You guys boo hoo about Cameron like she’s been through the worst pain and sorrow. Well, it’s nothing compared to the pain and sorrow that Sarah has been through.
Thoughts on AFP:
I can’t believe I’m so messed up by this show that I have to go and watch old episodes just to keep up with the blog posts and fry to ferret out bits of info! If the writers are actually keeping up with all this intricate detail, and it all weaves into some vast tapestry - I think they all deserve Lifetime Achievement Emmys. Seriously.
OK, so cause I couldn’t stop myself, here’s my rundown on AFP:
-Cam starts flashing back before she gets to the store, so the barcode and mylar balloon are not the primary trigger(s). She’s just glitchy.
-In Vick’s chip JC says that Terms don’t store memories the same way we do, yet it seems Cams flashbacks were being triggered in very human associative ways…suggesting that the flashbacks were human vs. cybernetic. Although this could be just the writers taking license to try and tell a compelling story that we the human audience could logically relate to.
-Alison jumps from the deck of the ship…and she expels a bunch of air underwater, so Kea, I don’t think that’s Cameron, or “a Cameron”.
-The Cameron in the future lays it out quite clearly that she’s not Alison’s enemy…yet she appears later to snap her neck. However, when she does the same move on Jody she doesn’t actually kill her, though it would appear that that was the intent. So I guess that means Cam could have unintentionally not killed Alison as well. fwiw.
-The point where Alison fades and Cameron returns appears to be when Cam slams JC into the wall. At that moment all emotion ceases and it seems that the basic infiltrator profile comes back on-line.
-Cameron in 2007 appears to be reciting a memorex performance of Alison’s interrogation when she’s telling the counselor her back story. Except it comes to a point where Cameron cries. I’ve never seen Cameron cry, and I don’t know if it means anything, but it’s a nice throwback to T2 where Arnold questions JC about “why do you cry?”. Means that Cam is definitely more advanced in the emotional mimicry department.
-Cameron breaks out of the flashback by asking about the tiger. Huh? This makes no sense at all to me. Anyone understand the symbolism in the 2 tigers?
-I’m trying to sort out the phone number thing. How does Cam come up with her home phone number? Doesn’t look like she was cold calling from the white pages. I suppose this could be in her memory profile of Alison, but it seems a bit arcane, and I don’t think the phone system as we know it would be functional in 2027…so it would be an odd datapoint to capture…but maybe. If it’s not a captured bit of data, the recall of the phone number points to the possibility that Alison herself actually exists at some level within Cameron.
-Cameron/Alison was struggling to reconcile why her mother wouldn’t acknowledge her on the phone. This seems to point towards an Alison imprint vs. conscious “real” element. Alison doesn’t understand the time shift. Logically one might think that she would not have expected to call her dead family, though, either. So, something’s whackadoodle upstairs in Cams processing.
-Cameron 2027 says “They’re going to kill you.” Meaning she’s not one of them. So from the start we know that Cam is not part of the machines only faction.
-JC chose her, and this machines faction chose her. For what? Maybe JC thought he sent ALISON back in time for a mission, and the machines intercepted and instead sent Cameron back. Truthfully, Cameron can say JC sent her back…however, in reality she has her own agenda.
-Just a wild thought, but maybe JC meant to send ALISON back so that he could have a child, a son, thinking that would help him somehow.
-The whole JC head on a pike thing….that’s just not good. That’s not mimicking anything…that’s Cam’s mission at some level.
-Kea is 100% right that the Cameron reset was far to abrupt and conveniently timed to occur just when JC arrives on the scene. Writers need to do some fix up work on that bit to sort out what triggered Cam to change at such a convenient moment. It couldn’t have happened any earlier…if it had Cameron would have just walked out the door and gone back to JC ASAP. So….what flipped her switch?
k…gotta sleep now. Damn TSCC….now I’m losing sleep over the show. Aaaargh!
-
@Dan
Your hypothesis is not supported by the observations we can make:
* Re-programmed Terminators “go bad” even without chip damage - Cameron killed just such an T888 in the complex in the future to save Derek.
* JC’s boys cannot “rough up” Cameron. She’s a Terminator. As Derek told Jesse, “Aim for the chip, they don’t get up.”
We do need to know more about the whole “Alison From Palmdale” deal and just how Cameron-style infiltration units are programmed. All my deductions, however, still stand with no contradictory observations available (just Jameron wishful thinking).
Face it guys, the Jameron hypothesis is completely unsupportable, without throwing everything out the window. Unless, and this is a big unless, some sequel to “Alison From Palmdale” recasts everything in new light.
Re timelines. The only timeline that counts “for the record” for story purposes is the one Sarah is in now. Future timelines, whether in some sense they exist or not, are only relevant in illuminating the actions of characters who come back from the future. They give, in actual fact, zero information about this timeline’s actual, eventual, future. Absolutely none at all because it has been established that the actual future we will observe is not causally linked with any timelines we see via time travellers. “There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.” The most actual information they can give us is that they are indicative of what might happen in certain circumstances.
Just would like to add my 2-cents worth, would like to praise the writers for a job well-done! After watching the episode again, I noticed this tiny detail which may support some of the claims why Cameron didn’t show any signs of comforting John at the end: there was a subtle twitch on Cameron’s face just after John was looking at her at the end of the show. I was thinking it seems as though she was holding herself back because Sarah was there. In previous episodes of this season, whenever John looks at her, Cameron would always look back instinctively but not in this case.
Or it could be a mosquito which got near to Summer’s face that caused her to twitch a litte =)
hey guys, does anyone know the ratings for the last episode???
would be great!!
Check out TV by the Numbers.
We did marginally better, very marginally.
The DVR numbers aren’t in yet.
How is it even possible to raise significantly the ratings of a continuity show anyway when the understanding of what going on, besides requiring brains also requires to have watched pretty much the whole season?…
Anybody has a theory on why the package has to be pickup on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean? Why not on ground?
The last time we have seen a future scene in the ocean in TSCC it was on Skynet’s “arch” when Alison jumped from the ship.
I don’t think this is a coincidence… but I can’t link the 2 events together yet. May be if we have some more development on Alison’s story before this season end…
@Etienne: It would appear that, regardless of whose side they’re on, the machines in the oil rig with the box represent a faction of metal that is not acting on behalf of SkyNet. Given that SkyNet tried to down the submarine, the exchange must not be a SkyNet initiative. Therefore, under water in an oil rig with a submarine that has a detachable cargo carrier would be a lot stealthier than above ground where there are likely more HK’s and Terminators running around.
thanks to innocent……geez…i don’t know why such a great series like T:SCC doesn’t work in the US……….but considering the fact, that the ratings started from 18 millions, then decreased from 10 to 8 millions, and finally from 6 to 5 and now anywhere around 3 millions, 3,5 millions, the show is almost for sure (and hell, i’m an optimist!) to be cancelled…………sad thing……..do you guys know, IF they (FOX, WB) consider the “overseas” fan-base and the online viewers, when it comes to decide to cancel a show??
@Etienne
I do have a working theory. The rouge faction of cyborgs are not land-based, because that would enable SkyNet to easily target and eliminate them. They remain on the move at sea, which is why it made sense to rondezvous with the Jimmy Carter. These are possibly the same cyborgs that killed Allison and gave rise to Cameron.
Just a working theory…not evidence to support it.
@enzo: it’s simple. most americans like their entertainment to be loud and dumb.
As for Cameron calling her “mom” she could have gotten the number from the counselor from the phone book. Easy enough.
The tiger is one of the “scary” animals from the song in the movie The Wizard of Oz (maybe the book too… haven’t read it in a while):
“Lions, and tigers… and bears, oh my!”
I’ve also wonder in Oz fashion if Cameron isn’t all or most of the main “journey” characters rolled into one… (not the Wizard… I think that’s John, and as for Toto…? Maybe Derek?
).
She’s Dorothy wanting to go home (if Sarah and John would accept her… she would be home), she’s the tin-man wanting a heart or emotions or at least a taste of humanity (John acknowledging her love and giving it back), she needs courage like a lion to combat her supposed mental “glitch” (John helps when he’s kind to her) and she needs brains and intelligence and logic, as did the scarecrow, to complete the tough, dangerous mission (”I’m thinking”).
As with these characters in the book, she already has all those things. She doesn’t know it yet.
Skynet would be one of the evil witches and its Terminators the flying monkeys.
One of the metal factions (probably lead by Weaver-bot) is one of the good witches, but still a witch.
And as I stated above, John is The Wizard. But the larger than life Wizard does not exist. It’s a prop, a facade hiding an ordinary man behind a red, velvet curtain… doing nothing IMHO to Cameron’s chip because…
She already has all the elements necessary to be different. FutureJohn has given her a mission, a journey of discovering… that she must “discover” her strengths inside that are dwelling below the surface.
The Great and Powerful Oz: “Never mind the man behind the curtain.”
I just realized something. During the discussion between Jesse and Cameron we hear John Connor being called “John” by Cameron, like on a first name basis. Everywhere else in the episode we hear “John Connor” or simply “Connor.”
Sometimes the smallest things can mean the biggest.
I love you Summer!
@Kea and other Jameron and hopeful-at-heart “fanatics”…
A possible Season 3 story? Just speculating… as is my want. A warning to all you hard-hearted souls… you probably won’t like this idea. LOL!
We know there is probably a separation of some sort of Sarah, John, and Cameron. I stated above that maybe Cameron (still wanting to be with John, I’m sure) perhaps leaves John so he can come to terms with himself (John is John’s problem). Maybe she’s using the ol’ “you miss something all the more when it’s gone” approach.
While she’s on her own (this happens for only a couple episodes, hopefully, but may span a couple months time) she’s discovering herself as well. Maybe there’s something that triggers a flashback to Allison again (maybe it starts a lingering “guilt” as John seems to have for his transgressions), and she must excise her demons, and lay the past to rest once and for all, so she can move forward… slough off any remaining “evil” dwelling within… to become the hero she needs to be, an asset rather than a hindrance or danger to John and the larger mission.
How could she go about that? Let’s say that Allison Young has been born (Cam doesn’t know it), and Cameron travels to Palmdale, her “home.” In “creepy” Cameron fashion, she even sneaks into the Young’s house (her pseudo “family”) and looks over the place, looks at photos on the wall, scopes the place (while they’re asleep)… and comes across a startling discovery… Allison in her crib.
Cameron stands over the baby, coldly, ominously. Deep shadow and slats of light from the moonlight creeping through the blinds fall across her. She reaches down and carefully lifts the child up into her arms. The baby stirs, but does not start balling for some odd reason. Cameron stares back at Allison… she is Allison’s doppelganger, her metal twin sister…her killer…
And starts to cry….
@Jack and @Logan: What a cool theory! It make all sense.
The Rogue Terminator faction created Cameron, not Skynet… That will explain why, when Vick (the T888 from season 1) scanned Cameron he was not able to identified Cameron model. Because she was not created by Skynet unlike Vick.
Future-John must have been aware that the rogue terminators will eventually capture and replicate Alison to create Cameron. Now, we know that, in certain circumstance, John can, by his inaction, let an human to die (like Riley’s death, he choose not to help her). It could be also the case for Alison.
I’m still wondering why Cameron join him and the rogue Terminators choose not to join the human resistance. Because, her default programming mission is still to “Kill John Connor and hang is head on a pike for everyone to see.” I’m not sure if she became a computer “that cross against the lights” by herself of with John’s help. She seems very disappointed when Jesse give her the T1000 response…
Anyway, as we all know: TSCC’s writers have really twisted minds! Anything is possible!
Cut to the morning… later on… Cameron has gone about her business as if nothing untoward has happend… you don’t know the outcome of the previous night’s “confrontation.” Now you do…
—-
Allison’s mom comes down to check on the baby. Allison is asleep in her crib as if nothing happened.
Her teddy bear, however, is sporting something that wasn’t there the night before…
A black velvet bag hanging around it’s neck, tied on with a ribbon.
Allison’s mom is surprised and picks up the bear, stares at it, and lifts the bag from around its neck. She opens it up, and her eyes go wide… she pours the contents out on the nightstand table… shiny, sparkly, diamonds slide out.
There is a small roll of scratch paper torn from a notepad that lays among the stones.
It reads… “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.”
Cut to Cameron… driving…(she’s probably stolen a car from somewhere)… she’s staring at the road going by, blankly… what… wait… isn’t there a hint of a smile on her face?
Episode 21 is entitled “Adam Raised a Cain”. I just find out that is also the title a Bruce Springsteen’s song (http://www.brucespringsteen.net/songs/AdamRaisedACain.html). I’m not american and don’t listen to “The Boss” music… so excuse me for my ignorance…
I find really intersting this passage in context with TSCC:
In the Bible Cain slew Abel
and East of Eden he was cast
You’re born into this life paying
for the sins of somebody else’s past
Cain = Cameron? Cameron slew Alison and East of the Cyborg’s Arch she was cast…
Hope that we will hear a remake of this song by Miss Manson and Bear McCreary. It will end the season 2 nicely.
Etienne,
Nothing against Shirley… but only The Boss can do The Boss…
It’s seems sacrilegious for somebody, anybody to do a cover of his work.
Just like Johnny Cash…
There is only ONE boss!
Speaking of The Boss…
This is for Cam and John…
“Human Touch”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Top0ZUzg5bQ
Dan your fantasizing to no end is disturbing and distracting. Your acting more deranged the longer you participate here. Like your getting a chance to show your talent to FOX. Your posts are lame, drivel and all are sick of reading your unpopular stories. Your a hack, write a fanfic. But first collect your thoughts because you ramble.
Snake… is that you?
No Dan that’s not me. I would have used my handle to make such a statement.
Snake, only joking… I didn’t think it was. LOL!
So, do you think Charley will be the only one who buys the farm on Friday?
How is it even possible to raise significantly the ratings of a continuity show anyway when the understanding of what going on, besides requiring brains also requires to have watched pretty much the whole season?…
How about showing the reruns this summer?
This is also a female perspective
I’m still unclear as to Jesse’s reason for wanting to separate Connor and Cameron.
It wasn’t the machines who caused her to lose the baby, it was the mutinous *human* crew kicking her on the ground.
Firstly, it isn’t known for sure whether it was the fight or the pressure changes that made her lose the baby, and secondly, if there hadn’t been doubts about Jesse due to the presence of the machines, the fight wouldn’t have started.
Jesse had better come back! I love her.
OMG!!
Just read that Brian Austin Green “secured” a new role on the CW’s upcoming series called Body Politic. The article states that Terminator is his first committment, but what does that say for the show and for his role if he’s looking for a new job!! I only began to like the show after he joined it.
thus-sung,
Only speculating… I think for irony’s sake it probably was the humans punching and kicking her, especially if she received severe blows to the abdomen. That usually will cause a miscarriage in the early stages of fetal development over and above a pressure change like what she experienced on the sub..
Humans killed her baby. They will disappoint you.
And guess what? Cameron was the only one who said they was sorry to Jesse.
Good grammar that!
Edit: And guess what? Cameron was the only one who said they were sorry to Jesse.
Dan,
Oh, I’m not saying it wasn’t the humans, just pointing out that they didn’t specify either way. Either way, it’s sad.
Starkiller,
yes that could help… maybe with an voice over by allergygirl during the Sarah episodes
explaining them?
j/k
How is it an especially feminine perspective?
@dan Hitchman
Don’t let them chase you away– you have great insite. I enjoy all write.
Thus-sung, I have finally decided that Jessie is dead. It took me several viewings but I believe Derek did follow through. If you notice, you hear a click when Derek takes up the slack in the trigger. The Beretta is a double action auto and it is not uncommon to hear that sound before the sear trips. Hearing the click instead of the weapons report doesn’t mean he didn’t finish squeezing the trigger after the cut away.
I also agree with you Mel, BAG plays a great bad ass soldier in this series. I really hope they keep him in the fight.
Snake,
are you a betting man?
Jesse is alive. Derek shot but she is alive: after all he missed an apple once and Jesse was near safety already.
I’ll take that bet. Jessie’s a little bigger than an apple. And, Derek wasn’t pissed at the apple either.
How is it an especially feminine perspective?
Perspective from a female, just saying there is more than one here.
@Lee J.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
@Snake, not to say that I don’t agree, but Innocent may have a point.
They did set up the fact that his gun sight was off in Part 1 of TiTD.
That may play in to future episodes (if there is a S3) and why they didn’t show her getting hit, going down, blood spraying, etc. etc.
Again, I think that if S3 happens…
She’ll be back. In what capacity, I don’t know. They still need villains, even if they are starting to realize their mistakes.
If there isn’t and the TV gods are cruel bastards then she’ll be dead as a doornail.
Very good episode. Not enough Cameron. But still a very good episode.
Keep criticizing the show and you too may get your name in it in a season 3!
My apologies for Ashley Miller for thinking the picture used to represent me was of an “ugly mofo”! Apparently it was of Ashley! They should have used a mug shot of me!
All the evidence is that Fox will not be picking up a season three. There’s a slight chance WB may sell it to the Sci-Fi Channel or put it on TNT.
I hope Derek killed Jesse. John was wrong to let her go. But at least I was partly right when I predicted Derek would kill her when he found out what she did. He was going to, at worst he backed off. It’s too bad he never knew about her pregnancy.
Maybe that’s the “big secret” Cameron reveals to Derek this week. Alternatively maybe we’ll finally find out what happened in the interrogation house when Derek and his squad were captured. Must be something Derek isn’t happy about if he’s threatening Cameron with a gun.
I’ve been hoping to see Cameron bounce Derek off some furniture. Maybe that’ll happen this wee. Only thing I want to see more is Cameron bitch-slapping Sarah!
Innocent, thanks for your take on the Derek/Jesse outcome. But I’ll only believe you if and when we see her again.
Does anybody know when they’ll make a decision re season 3. This is the best show on TV, how can they not renew it?!. Especially with all the other nonsense on, nothing else is good enough.
Richard “Mr. Superstar” Hack:
That would be some seriously funny sh*t if Cameron gets one too many snarky remarks sent her way from Sarah “The Mouth” Connor.
Cameron slaps her for a change (only as hard as Sarah slapped her)! Looks at Sarah to show she won’t accept her offhand comments anymore, and walks off.
I’d be like: Huzzah! Cameron isn’t taking any more crap from her!
Yes Dan she may well be alive as Innocent says. But I’ll stick to my guns, I think he took her out. I think you made the point about the ending shot that showed Jessie and Riley together. after watching the Dereck/Jessie scene and the Jessie/Riley scene I do believe the implication is that they are both done for.
That’s Hilarious Mr. Hack. I guess you won’t be having dinner at Ashley’s place any time soon. LOL.
Thanks Snake. I feel a little better today! I actually got some things done and didn’t watch TSCC…shocking in I know!!!
@ Dan “Kea and other Jameron and hopeful-at-heart “fanatics”…”
You know that amazes me about this show is how many guys actually ship John and Cameron aka Jameron. Its great to see.
@ Richard Steven Hack “All the evidence is that Fox will not be picking up a season three. There’s a slight chance WB may sell it to the Sci-Fi Channel or put it on TNT.”
Honestly when I heard TSCC was going to be on FOX I was shocked.
As long as we get a S3 somewhere I will be happy. I would actually consider getting cable for TSCC. Now that’s saying something!!!!
Did you see the TSCC comment in the BSG article. Come on S3!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20090322/en_top_eo/105524;_ylt=Ak9sTqN3c4JrJiCGOnbW2lNxFb8C
@ Al B. Bach “k…gotta sleep now. Damn TSCC….now I’m losing sleep over the show. Aaaargh!”
LOL Not only that but I’m driving people nuts if we will get a S3 or not!!!
@ Richard Steven Hack “I’ve been hoping to see Cameron bounce Derek off some furniture. Maybe that’ll happen this wee. Only thing I want to see more is Cameron bitch-slapping Sarah!”
Get in line.
@ Al B. Bach you made some good observations. One really has to keep up with this show. Plus it fun to go back and see how everything is connected.
Did you catch the metal chasing after her vs. the flashlights?
I thought the tigers from Alison in Palmdale were references to the wizard of Oz…lions and tigers and bear oh my… or something like that. At least that’s what I took away from it.
She saw a tiger and a bear. I guess the lion was awol.
Also what year is the show portraying? 07? 08? 09? Alison From Palmdale has the baby card at 2009.
“-Alison jumps from the deck of the ship…and she expels a bunch of air underwater, so Kea, I don’t think that’s Cameron, or “a Cameron”.”
Did not see that. But if you watch Today is the day part 1 you see the door all fogged up where Cameron was standing….like she was debating about talking to John.…yes I noticed little things I’m sorry.
Kea,
Don’t be sorry, that’s cool that you’re picking up little “tells.” It means you’re watching the episodes at least 14 times a day! LOL!
Glad you are feeling a bit better. It sucks to be sick.
And don’t be too shocked about Jameron. Even guys that can be hard on the outside can be a little teensie bit soft on the inside. Kind of like a Cadbury creme egg. I’m partial to the caramel-centered kind myself.
And yes, I even shed a few tears at the end of E.T… but only when someone isn’t looking. Don’t go, E.T.!! Don’t go!! Damn, I’m running off at the mouth!
Shhhhh!!! Don’t tell them I spilled one of our “Man Trade Secrets!”
The other dudes will be after me like this guy called “Dan Hitchman please LEAVE.” They always hunt at night, hide behind their anonymity, and stab in the back.
Have you noticed that when JH sinks or Cameron says she can’t swim…they sink. Yet the liquid terminator swims kind if like a fish…or a snake…doesn’t really help but just interesting. It didn’t sink to the bottom like Jesse wanted.
LOL Dan I didn’t want it to sound creepy…I just have a tendency to notice this little things in shows. And I actually noticed that the first time I watched it.
14 times a day…come on I do have a life outside of TSCC!!! Shocking I know!!
FYI I kind of lost track how many times I watched that ep or at least parts of it. LOL Kind of makes me wish I had a DVR instead of a VCR!!! Darn!
I hate being sick. But it would be fun to see Cameron take care of a sick John!!!!
Hey at least we got guys on the Jameron team.
And we got into the Cadbury creme egg discussion how!?!?!? LOL!!! Oh boy!
Long live Jameron!!! Come on Season 3!!!
Kea: So, I take it you’re getting your TV through an antenna.
If you aren’t thinking of moving to DISH, DirecTV, or cable (or Verizon FIOS, which is short for FIber Optic Service, if you are lucky enough to have it in your neck of the woods), and leasing one of their DVR decoder boxes for ~$6 a month extra, and you want to record with no loss in quality…
Your easiest alternative is getting a Tivo unit. http://www.tivo.com
If you don’t have an HDTV (and you should!) at all, and don’t have a big budget, and you are able to pick up your local stations in HD over your antenna (must have good high band VHF and UHF reception capabilities)…
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
Check out this option:
Samsung’s LN40B550 40″ 1920 x 1080p LCD TV (also can act as a computer monitor).
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?Redir=1&description=Samsung+Electronics-LN40B550+40+INCH+1080P+LCD+TV-Video&dpno=7764089
Some have had luck getting Best Buy to price match Macmall’s low price of $869.99.
For the money it makes for a great starter HDTV unless you can move up to this:
Samsung HL61A750, 61″ DLP 1080p HDTV with 3-D capabilities (I mentioned this model before). ~$1,400 if you snoop around.
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=dlptv&model_cd=HL61A750A1FXZA
John has become a man. This is good.
This episode was fantastic! I am really proud of the crew, who made it!
The Jameron thing is too close to a guy with his rubber blowup doll for me.
starkiller…
Ouch, baby! Very, very ouch!
Starkiller:
The guy who figures out how to make a “blowup doll” that looks and acts like Cameron is going to be a trillionaire. A woman who comes with her own remote, every guy will want one.
Even with a remote would he find a station and stick with it or keep changing the channel constantly?
Problem is: she isn’t even as soft as a blowup doll. Metal endoskeleton? OUCH!
Snake,
count me out. I like surprises, I like to learn, I like people, certainly not lifeless dolls: disgusting.
Brilliant episode, absolutely brilliant! Up until now my favorite episode from Season 2 was “Goodbye to all That” but this one completely overshadows it. I’ll admit that more than one scene in this episode made me teary-eyed.
I’ve spent so much of this season hating Jesse, but now that I know her back story, it makes me reflect on what made her the person she became, what motivated her to go to such great lengths to get back at John Connor for what she believes was taken away from her on the Jimmy Carter mission. Stephanie Jacobsen completely won me over as a fan because of how she portrayed Jesse as such a complex, mysterious, devious, strong yet vulnerable character.
The scene with Derek and John in the truck when he basically clues him in about things that Derek himself didn’t know about was excellent. He pretty much proves himself as the man that Derek knows and respects in the future. Then, the dialogue that John has with Jesse was absolutely exquisite. When he tells her that he knows why his future self began sending reprogrammed T’s back to protect him instead of other soldiers like his father — because human life is too precious to risk losing — I almost cried during that scene. The look on Jesse’s face at that moment was so heartbreaking. Understanding John Connor from even a teenage perspective manages to humble her and at the same time cements for her why he makes certain choices in the future. His reason for keeping Cameron in his confidence in the future is because he no longer has the luxury to have human companionship, everyone he knows and has loved have died and they are never coming back. He proved once and for all that he IS John Connor, and the leadership qualities that are required of him in the future have definitely began to shine through.
The final scene, when John breaks down and cries in Sarah’s arms, made me believe that he was not only mourning Riley’s loss, but that he mourns for the entire world if and when Judgment Day arrives. Derek had mentioned to him that in the future people were always watching him, waiting for him to show that he’s human, and the moment he breaks down in sorrow for Riley speaks volumes about who John is now and the man he eventually becomes. Such a gut-wrenching scene!
Thomas Dekker did such a fabulous job in this episode. His performance was phenomenal. I can’t say enough about how impressed I am with how talented of an actor he is, and how he’s managed to make the role of John Connor his own.
Brilliance, sheer brilliance, indeed.
Yeah innocent but I bet there are times when you secretly dream of having a mute button.
Hot fembots… hmmm… remotes… hmmm…
Reminds of something… Austin Powers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTYUI87ck-c
Shall we shag now, or shall we shag later?
Groovy, baby, yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan Hitchamn,
a serious question -
how many names do you post under on this blog?
just wondering.
Seneca, why did you have to mention the thing about the maid possibly being Jesse or her mother? You are going to make my brain explode.
boxer… my friend…
Just the one.
How many do you?
Can I just be annoying and say that I LOVE this episode, its my fav and that is saying a lot cause I’ve decided on favorites a long time ago, and I will lose my mind if we don’t get a season 3. To quote GQ I do love you I love you I love you HOO HOO HOOO.
You know I was thinking about this…Jesse’s hand looked kind of infected when she’s in the pool…and the camera kind of focuses in on it…so if Derek did not kill her…maybe she gets an infection!?!?
@ Al B. Bach I rewatched Alison from Palmdale and we SO need a season 3 ep to wrap that up.
I mean the metal chasing after her vs. the flashlights.
Why do they let her run around the ship?
When they capture her she’s not injured but later on she is.
Why does Cameron remember things from Alison’s POV when Cameron is not present?
Why, if the bracelet is so important, doesn’t Alison dump it into the ocean when she’s in the water.
Ahhhhh we need that season 3!!!!!
I liked this latest show, “Today is the Day - Part 2″. I’m not completely sure if Derek killed Jesse, I’m sure I heard a click as he pulled the trigger. I wonder if there will be some kind of connection between Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Terminator: Salvation. I hope so. Maybe the movie that’s coming out will show John Connor sending Cameron back to the past. Maybe in the movie when all seems lost to the machines John Connor will send Cameron back to try and change things. If this happened then I think that would make sure we get a third season.
Since John figured out riley was no good and that lead him to Jesse who was no good. Do you think John has been doing research on why Cameron called herself Alison and claimed she was from Palmdale?
Just wondering.
Season 3 would hopefully answer that!!!