Dennis “Cutty” Wise from the Wire!!! I wish he could have been in the show earlier!
Great episode tonight! i loved the analysis by Cameron that everyone is a threat to John, especially Sarah. The phone scene with “Riley” was uber-creepy.
I think this was one of my favorite episode this season.
Like the nod to Terminator 1, with a Termie impersonating someone. In t1 Arnold did Sara’s mom “at the cabin”. Now we have Cameron doing Riley. Both Terminators pretending to be a loved one of a Connor. Did Cameron see love between John and Riley. I think so…..
We MISS YOU RILEY !!!!
I agree a definite fav. that blew my initial expectations “out of the water” so to speak. My favorite parts where when you saw John taking a stand and actually investigating before he got hysterical and press Cameron’s kill button. Definitely starting to see a leader in him.
It was fairly decent and tense. But the whole Jesse thing was stretched out too far. Here it is, four more episodes left, and we’ll finally find out why Jesse does what she does (next week).
Jesse is now excess baggage, I’m hoping for a payoff next Friday where John tracks her down. There’s just too many subplots to deal with (pun not intended).
I’m not going to be able to make it through the week…
I need to know what was in that box!
AMAZING episode!
I really liked the future scenes! I’ve been waiting to see what Jessie’s real deal is ever since she came on the show. Like why she hates Cameron so much.. damn I can’t wait to find out the rest of the story next week!
I’m glad to see John sticking up for Cameron, its about time he treated her better. I really felt bad that everyone blamed Cameron for Riley’s death right away, no questions asked. I mean, I understand she’s a machine but cut her some slack.. She’s willing to risk her life on a daily basis for John, they could at least find some evidence to prove that she did kill her before jumping to conclusions.. or thinking about taking her out like Sarah did.
John was very smart- going to find Riley’s body.. seeing the bruises and the scratches- that proves right there Cameron didn’t kill her.
I loved the John Henry scenes! Its kinda creepy though how he has control of that whole place.. being able to open doors and control elevators. Ellison better start teaching him more morals and rules.. otherwise, John Henry’s going to become a big problem and will be impossible to control.
The scene when Cameron called using Riley’s voice was really interesting.. Does anyone else think there was more to it then just getting a reaction out of John.. idk maybe I’m just reading into things to much xD
The convo between Sarah and Cameron has me thinking too.. “There’s only one way for him to be safe.. its to be alone.” Ive got a gut feeling that John will end up alone at the end of the season.. The Dekker Tapes are starting to make sense..
Well that about sums up my review.
Thank you for one AWESOME episode! Can’t wait till next week!
I’m off to re-watch the episode again on my DVR
Not as strong as last week’s installment, not as “everything-clicks-the-right-way” perfect, but quite good nonetheless.
Don’t misunderstand me, I liked it a lot and it certainly kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole episode, more so with it being a two-parter and the 43 mins. endline coming up fast with no closing for… well, nothing, mostly. But that’s just the two-parter nature, I guess, this being mostly preparation for what’s coming next week in the 2nd part. I just missed some of that upcoming payoff.
Nice episode with multiple plot threads moving together without slowing each other up.
Don’t notice the time going by………
Sarah and Cameron’s talk over the thermite fire was telling……..First Sarah admitting that she couldn’t get rid of Cameron without hurting John and then understanding that all of them are endangering John in some way. Sarah didn’t like that, but I think she understood it… even the great Sarah Connor is a danger to John.
Great episode…I’m dying for next Friday to get here already!
The morgue scene seemed to focus on Riley’s finger wounds, but at the same time it was an emotional time for John, his goodbye time if you will. I don’t think it was clear from that scene if John saw the evidence needed to realize it wasn’t Cameron. I’m just curious how the writers are going to reveal the revelation of Jessie to John/Sarah/Derek.
From what I thought out the ONLY link is Sarah. If Sarah were to see Derek and Jessie together things would come together. It’s a really interesting dynamic, the fact that Derek knows Jessie but doesn’t know Riley. How Sarah knows Jessie, but doesn’t know that Derek knows Jessie.
One thing that puzzled me was when Derek was patching up Jessie’s hand wounds. Why couldn’t he notice that the hand wounds were fresher than the facial wounds? Why didn’t he think it was fishy that some military men retaliated and caused the facial wounds to Jessie in an open public bar?
It’s been nice seeing Derek finally ask Jessie some questions but unfortunately it doesn’t seem to get far because Jessie manipulates him sexually. I would love to see Derek redeem himself by putting the pieces together.
I really did not need to know why Jesse hates metal so much, I preffered it would have been for many reasons, just because she has watched so many terrible things and suffered through so much in the future that she can’t trust them or like them, rather than having it all explained by some single, pivotal event in her life that turned her into the person she is now.
Any episode where we get to see Summer do that walk she so ingeniously have invented is a great episode, amarite? *awaits high-five* ehehe, ..right? anyone?
Enjoyed it. Liked each sub-story: Jesse, Weaver, Connors+Cam. Especially liked the submarine Captain termie (Quinn?) and the handing over of the box scene in the oil rig. What’s in the box?
For fans, a great show a fun episode.
For non-fans, for building new fans, the episode was once again complete…crap.
Although the party is over.
To the directors, writers, producers, we already knew Dekker could act, show emotion and the same goes for Glau, Jackcobsen, Headey, Jones, Green and Dillahunt and all the rest. Can they do action!
Should have had some action to write home about, ITS TERMINATOR!!
Should have had some action to tell my friends about, should have had more then a sulking Jackcobsen ending.
Yeah fan boy I know it continues. So next week she moves the lamp again. Johnny boy sulks some more.
Ellison proves how he is one of the worst detectives ever, Jackcobsen moves the lamp again, johnny boy sulks…
Just a fan who wanted a season 3, but hey its Friday night …no work tomorrow
I liked this ep more then I thought I would. I thought OA (ep 17 was better) but this ep had a lot going for it. I hate to be continued eps!!!
And wasn’t that one actor on Birds of Prey? Hmm
Jesse’s back story with the sub is interesting. And I can’t wait to see Jesse and Cameron in the future next week!!! I’m guessing the mission goes bad, it was Cameron’s idea and Jesse blames her. Can I just say that when I saw the little box my first thought….a mini River Tam!!!! LOL!!!
Loved Cameron in this one. You just felt for her.
The bird talk was so cute. And Cameron felt so emotional again. I like seeing Cameron use her skills (the voice and the hearing). And I loved the ‘I love you’ part. Loved that.
John and Cameron were wonderful together. And they looked guilty as heck!!!
I mean Jameron have such a wonderful chemistry with each other, its an absolute joy to watch!
I love that John stands up for Cameron.
How he lies for her. John knows Cameron didn’t kill r!!
I also like that we don’t hear Sarah tell John but that Cameron just comments she knows. That was well done.
Liked the Sarah and John talk as well as the Sarah and Cameron. I think it was important for Cameron to tell Sarah that John will be alone, expect with a machine aka Cameron!!!
I guess Jesse fights the guys in the bar to make it look like she got her injuries from there.
Kacy is back. I liked how her story tied into the plot.
Weaver, Ellison, Savannah and JH was interesting.
Maybe Cam should rethink her kill switch!
It was raining when Sarah and Cameron talk so I guess a storm is coming.
LOL did anyone else have a pancake commercial!! I thought of Jameron!!!
So Cameron gets into fights in the middle of the night? I mean we saw her fight the terminator a while back.
Why is there a spray painted R on the shed door? I saw that last ep and was meaning to ask?!?!
Trivia time: What does John eat for breakfast…Frosted Flakes. You can see a box behind Sarah!!!
Cameron said, “John, I love you,” because she does love him. The bridge from music, dancing and freedom of expression to love has been crossed, and now Cameron’s mission has become her obsession. To her, John is no longer an object to protect, but a possession to protect. No longer is it “business” for Cameron. Now it’s personal. Cameron Phillips is in love, and love knows no boundaries. Should be a wild ride from here on out.
Did I hear faint submarine noises in the background when John and Sarah were talking?
Anyway I kind of forgot to mention this but I like that the stepfather has on a fight cancer T-shirt. I thought that tied in so well into the story line with Sarah.
And it really linked the fight cancer commercial that was shown during my TSCC airing.
Nice touch.
The rubber skinned terminator in the oil rig:
Wasn’t he in season 1, in the first episode we meet Derek with the flashbacks? The episode where Derek and his comardes get taken to
the basement”?
A very good episode and the best effort from Edward and Stentz since D&D in S1. Bouncing back and forth between now and the future seems to be their forte. Stick to that formula you two because it works for you.
I have to agree with everyone who liked the JH scenes. Very creepy. I find myself worrying about Savannah and thinking about what terrible fate Weaver (and the writers) might have in mind for her. Look for her to draw closer to Ellison and become the daughter he wished he might have had.
Clever Jesse getting into a fight so that when Derek sees her she has an excuse for being marked up. But note that Derek hasn’t asked why she didn’t wasn’t at the ambush.
Note that John saw the defensive wounds on Riley’s hands. If Cameron had killed Riley it would have been over so quickly that Riley wouldn’t have been able to put up a struggle. John knows that Cameron didn’t do it and once he sees that Sarah and Derek are clean he’ll know there’s someone else involved. When he braces Derek on the issue, Jesse’s days are numbered.
So what was in the box? Man-portable nuke? Nanobots? A backup copy of Skynet’s central core and programing? And why in the preview was Jesse talking to Cameron about what happened on the sub? This seems to imply that whatever happens on the sub it still makes it back to Serrano Point.
On an unrelated topic, it seems to me that when a series gets canceled, it takes some time for the DVD to come out. For example, Firefly on DVD wasn’t issued until recently. But just the opposite seems to happen for shows that will be continued and a DVD is released after a completed season and before the New Season as long as the show is running. Given that the S2 DVD is scheduled for release in August, can it be implied that S3 is good to go for WB regardless of what Fox decides? Remember if Fox doesn’t want the show WB can make a deal with someone else.
Not as solid as last week’s episode, but it was… it was… good… not super spectacular but… good.
People have already expressed the solid parts. I just wish the Jesse thing hadn’t been dragged out so long and then dragged out even longer, so we have to wait yet another week for hopefully some real tension.
I just hope she gets one right between the eyes, but before she does she sees just how terrible she’s been (I can hope, but I don’t think that’s going to happen this way). Sorry, mates, but I don’t like Jesse and I don’t feel sorry for her even now. If you wanted me to, just like Riley, you failed.
And has Derek ever been a greater dope? He’s so quick to blame “the metal” that he doesn’t even investigate before he passes judgment. Hopefully, that’s what John Connor was doing: finding out that Cameron didn’t kill her. He sure didn’t look over the body very long… he should have had his emotional moment and then sucked it up and done an examination. The bullet wound, and other tells would have screamed A HUMAN DID IT!
And I sure don’t like where this is going: John Connor alone. Um, it again sounds cool and “manly,” but anyone who knows something about dangerous missions is that you need TEAMWORK, solid TEAMWORK. No one can do it alone, not something as big as this, and…
EVERYONE NEEDS A HELPING HAND.
The writers know that the John and Cameron interaction was a big hook, a big draw for the show (we’ve been talking about it all season long here and elsewhere), and yet they seem quite willing to shatter all that for a deeply depressing aura surrounding the show.
God help them if they think that will help Season 3, if there is one.
I’m kinda liking the Jessie back story. I always liked her more than Riley (who by the way had her best performance tonight). If you recall Riley was the one who initiated the lethal conflict between her and Jessie. At the point that Jessie shot her Riley was about to bash her skull in with that ivory tusk. Jessie had no choice.
Now we see that, at one point, Jessie was pro-metal. What is revealed next week should be quite interesting. It obviously is a spectacular incident to make such an impression on her.
As usual the very best of the episode was every moment that Summer was in the frame.
Wow!! Just so many intense emotions in this episode! It was amazing!!
Everything’s about to turn out really nasty in that nuclear submarine. Wish I could get myself into some kind of suspended animation or something till next friday night. Just can’t wait!!!
Not to mention the increasing tension between Cameron and Sarah, Sarah and John, John and Cameron, Jesse and Derek, who I’d dare to say is starting to revert the manipulative game with Jesse, and Jesse dealing with her own demons.
And speaking of tension, the scenes with Savannah approaching to JH were just glorious, Ellison and Weaver playing JH’s twisted game and then the talk between Ellison and JH. Creepy.
On a final note, discovering that the phone-call was actually planned was really great, we’re starting to see a smarter John as the famous “Dekker tapes” announced and Cameron’s unexpected variation of the plans were shocking. I was wondering how that famous second “I love you” would be, I thought that was a pretty dangerous move and you guys played your card fantastically, congrats! I certainly loved the way it remained [deliberately?] unclear.
Also can’t wait to see how much Cameron words (about John being better alone) will affect Sarah’s future decisions.
Thank you so much for another wonderful episode!!!
Absolutely wonderful episode, every story thread was interesting. Loved the Sub story, damn I got excited when seeing the endos and the 600 series. There’s too little of that in your show heh Can’t wait to find out what’s in the box!
JH was outright creepy controlling the building. Did he understand he did something wrong? He was confused… brilliant storyline.
And I really liked John this episode. I could feel his sadness about Riley. He wants to believe Cameron didn’t do it, but he understands the possibility. Poor Cameron… 51% chance i wouldn’t have killed you.
Keep it coming guys. this is one of the best shows I’ve seen in ages!
I sincerely hope that the rest of the episodes weave the story lines as well as this one did. Good mix of predictable/anticipate payoffs with zinger twists. I was especially pleased to see the kinder, gentler, happier Jessie. I was starting to wonder if her grating edginess was just a result of one dimensional acting. Now I see that she’s definitely working an arc for her character. Well played.
Since others already mentioned all the other good parts of this episode, I’ll just mention the one part no one else did - Kacy. Love her. She usually has very few lines, but she always makes me laugh. “If I can breastfeed him til he’s five, maybe I can trick my body into letting me keep these boobs.” LOL. She’s so relaxed all the time and so not repressed.
I’m glad John figured it out. There was a little fake-out in the full shot in the morgue where it didn’t look like Riley was all that bruised (which had me yelling at the TV), that was rectified in the CU. No way Cameron killed that body.
Also, why all the endo hate? Not even for spare parts? If Sarah and John would just stop and think, it doesn’t seem like the existence of the endoskeleton makes any difference one way or another as to the creation of Skynet and its minions (though it’s good to not let the collected dead endos sit on blocks in the driveway and front lawn…it annoys the neighbors).
Thanks for giving us a nice memory of not-enormously-pregnant Busy.
Liked the episode. not as much as last week, but it was still good. hard to say until I see part 2. I’m kinda confused as to how John came to the conclusion though that it wasn’t Cameron. what do the finger tips have to do with anything? the main thing that took her life was the gun, no? who’s to say Cameron didn’t use a gun? one shot and some more injuries trying to defend herself would get Riley the same general results as far as I can tell.
I guess I’m just not as sharp as John. Could anyone explain it for me?
Kyle, there wouldn’t be a struggle if Cameron were to kill Riley. It would be quick. There are far too many bruises on her to say it was Cameron. Though we don’t know that he came to that conclusion because of her wounds (even though he seems to believe Cameron anyway).
As for the episode. Great episode and I can’t wait for part 2! I didn’t much like how Sarah talked to and treated Cameron, but I did understand why. She doesn’t much like Cameron’s relationship with John. She’s well aware of the attachment that John has to Cameron and that’s the only thing keeping Cam alive right now. I was glad that John believed her and stood up for her finally. I’m afraid of what will happen to her at the end of the season… I have a feeling I’m not going to like it.
I must know what’s in the box! And I must know what turned Jesse into hating Cameron!
ok I thought it was a good ep for part 1 , it was compelling, it was over and I was surprised that much time had elapsed already !
I dont like jesse and I did not think I would like this ep , but was surprised.
now some speculation
1.liquid metal in the box ?
2.T’s who gave the box were not reprogrammed but anti skynet ?
3. if kill switch is used it will be sarah using it?
4. when sarah asked cam how bad she would feel, cam said “very bad” it wasnt
a joke ! she meant if sarah had tried that she would have hurt sarah
5. jesse’s lamps are explosives ? to take out john or cameron when they come.
6.john knows riley fought with a human and that derek is involved somehow.
8.weaver was showing emotions, excited and happy with JH
9 weaver and future john may have a connection.
10. jesse …. why she hates john and cam ? ……..no ideas there
11. shirley looked very good in this ep !
thats it, will watch this one again.
Very interesting build-up in this first part of two, although the stories between characters shifted nicely the pacing lacked acceleration towards a fitting cliffhanger. I felt that the story could reveal a little bit more to tease viewers better, but as usual I can’t wait until next week.
While not falling for all the classical storytelling mechanics, this episode gave a fleshed part of Jesse’s background story which I had waited for. It also had some satisfying dialogue stirring up the relations int the Connor houshold after Rileys death, and just a perfect reaction of Dekker when Sarah questions John’s judgement regarding Cameron. Heartbreaking reaction from John in its subtlety, proving not saying out loud what you are feeling actually says so much more.
The submarine scenes could have been better productionwise, but still a nice change settings from other futuristic scenes containing tunnels and the ruined LA citiscape. (One more thing, the guns props looks too fake in HD.)
I hope to see more of that Skynet sub in the next episode and any guesses what’s in the box?
I liked this episode. Not as much as last week’s, but it was still very good.
For me the highlight of the episode was when Sarah dropped the bomb about the “I love you” thing. John’s gasp right after that was just brilliant. He lost control over himself for just a second and then snaped back into his old role as the unapproachable John Connor who hides his feelings.
However, what really got me thinking was Cameron’s phonecall. I really can’t tell how much of that was an act and how much was the real Cameron, expressing herself.
One thing really annoyed me though: Why doesn’t Ellison put 1+1 together and see that there is something wrong with Weaver. I mean he is an ex-FBI agent. Well, it will probably all put together next Friday. I can’t wait!
I love that there is any terminator based show on TV, but planet are the writers from. I can’t believe the show is not well on it’s way to being canceled. This show is written like a general hospital daytime soap. THAT’S NOT WHAT PEOPLE WATCH THE TERMINATOR FOR!!!
James Cameron once said in an interview that everyone fantasizes about being the Terminator … walking into work one monday morning and throwing their boss out the window… This series has a terminator that uses terminator type fighting skills once every 6 episodes. What’s the use of even having her on the show. Maybe they should lock the writers in a room and make them watch the original movies, or maybe watch some 24 or something. They clearly do not know how to write an action adventure. UGH!! I hope the show is not on the fast track to being canceled.
To CJ:
“I’m glad John figured it out. There was a little fake-out in the full shot in the morgue where it didn’t look like Riley was all that bruised (which had me yelling at the TV), that was rectified in the CU. No way Cameron killed that body.”
Well, I am no expert on these matters, so I may be wrong, but, as far as I know, if death happens soon enough right after getting beaten, there won’t be bruises, because there won’t be blood flow to make them appear. The body will exhibit the marks of the fight on the outside, lacerations where skin got torn and such, but no, there will be no black-and-blueish marks under the skin. Those you develop in time, well after receiving the hits.
So I guess it was ok for Riley’s corpse not to look “all that bruised”. You can stop yelling at your TV set now. ;-D
If the rest of the season is as good as these last two episodes then it is going to be a great ride to the end of the season.
I think the normal Terminator vs. Human fights go down with the Terminator grabbing the human by the neck and snapping it, very short and to the point. A Terminator doesn’t need to use a gun to kill a human that’s just a fact. What would Cameron have to gain by lying to John? If she said Riley was a threat that had to be removed so I killed her, John would be mad but would he hate Cameron for doing it? In Cameron’s mind would she “care” if John would be mad at her? She already said “they don’t always like the way I do things”. All this leads me to believe that John will ultimately believe Cameron and will eventually find out the truth.
Now it’s time to go watch the episode again!
t5000, I was thinking the same thing about liquid metal in the box. Given that individual terminator units may be created by Skynet, but arethemselves autonomous and capable of re-evaluating their mission, it is certainly plausible that a faction of machines could become anti-skynet. I would not be surprised if the contents of that box were connected to Weaver’s arc, and future John–being the leader of both the resistance and the alliance–actually sent her back to develop a better alternative for machine evolution than skynet.
Jack, that’s what I was thinking too. It’s too small to contain anything other than liquid metal.
I did like how Cameron professed her to John love yet again via Riley’s voice. Now she needs to learn how to say it herself with no beating around the bush or seeming like she’s acting. It would make John a lot less weirded out.
Not that it will probably happen now, but it would have been super funny if Cameron had asked Kasey some pointers on landing a man or male/female relationships in general… in a round about sort of way… not coming right out and saying IT’S JOHN (since it would blow her cover). The conversations they could have had!! Maybe Cameron would be just a little bit “oh my God, did she just say that??!!” as John did about Kasey and the “Rhythm Method.” Maybe Kasey could have been just a little “goofy” in her response to Cameron’s inquiries by saying: “I sure hope you’re not talking about John!” or something like that. Ha ha.
We seriously need MORE humor, and it was nice that Busy was there to add a bit to the proceedings.
I thought the submarine scenes could have used a tad more finger nail biting tension. It seemed just a little subdued and the music, as usual, needs a major shot in the arm. It needs to feel more TERMINATOR-ish when necessary to help get the blood pumpin’.
And hopefully John noticed the skin under the fingernails of Riley to show it was a struggle between her and another human.
I also liked the Cameron and the bird. Somebody ought to get her a parrot or myna bird to take care of (after the glitch is rectified). The bird talks back!!
When are we ever going to see Cameron get to celebrate her “Built Day?”
John could get her a “tight present” of an intricately carved, wooden, animated music box with a lovely ballerina figurine dancing to a melodious tune.
It would go to show that he cares deeply (perhaps does love her too), he knows more than he’s let on, and has seen her dance as well (Cameron, you’re just not sneaky enough!), and is thinking about Cameron and her “differences” from other machines.
Cameron is greatly enamored with it as the dancer flits around on top of the music box, and is touched that John would think so much of her. Behind his gruffness is something more.
Great episode! Finally, season 2 is starting to get really interesting. I can’t believe some of you don’t realize that John HAS figured it out, that Cameron did not kill Riley. Didn’t you see how he looked at Riley’s bruises on her fingers and hands? The look on his face showed, he knew immediately that Cameron didn’t kill her. Bottom line, Riley would have had no bruises on her, had Cameron killed her. I hope Jesse is exposed next week as the killer, and it will be interestin to see how John, Derrek, and Sarah decide to deal with her.
They are paranoid about the endos because of all of the reverse engineering that Cyberdyne did when they got the remnants from the original endo in T1. If you’ll remember, T2 showed the Connors going after those remains at the Cyberdyne lab. They were very important to the rise of Skynet.
Loved it. =) Great the way you started it and ended it the same (the Jesse scene). And happy we get more Cameron in the future from the promo for next week =)
Once Jesse is discovered, Derek won’t leave the job to anyone else.
I liked the ep very much, in spite of the fact that two parters irritates the whole inferno out of me. I also share the impression that the time just flew by.
Didn’t you find it funny that the two teens thought that they had fooled mom? “What parts? There’s no parts!”.
What are your impressions of Cameron on the cell phone? It almost looked like Cameron was saying what SHE felt (or nearly felt in some way). It was very obvious the writers and director were really emphasizing that one part of the scene.
But after that she didn’t even look like she understood why John was questioning her. Cameron seemed to go both ways, emotional (sort of) and not.
Summer is so good at depicting either way with her eyes and face. She’s brilliant at playing “Cameron”.
Obviously they want everyone to keep guessing just what is going on inside of Cameron regarding JC.
This episode left me on weird terms. I loved the scene where Cameron is like “theirs a 51% chance i wouldn’t have killed you bird”. haha but i didn’t like it because Cameron went to no lengths to defend herself. and john lost his trust in her after the phone call. I was very sad and felt extremely bad for Cameron. And i cared absolutely not a bit for jesse in this episode.
My DVR failed me and I missed the whole thing! I can’t wait a month, even a week for the FULL episode to be posted somewhere…I thought I was unusually obsessed with everything Terminator, now I see I am not alone. I see some of you guys are die hard…So who can HELP me find the Full episode (18: Today…part 1) that’s already online?!? Would really appreciate it…
Roy - I finally got the chance to really look at the scene at the morgue again, and it’s just an effect of resolution and lighting. Looking closely at her neck, the lac is definitely there, but difficult to see at first. The bruising, while it’s obvious in CU just seems to disappear in the contours in the far shot.
As for the bruising, I got this from a “medico-legal” expert’s site:
1. It is always advisible that a medical officer should re-examine the body after 24 hours as by this time the bruises are very clearly visible.
2. Bruises produced at the time of death show little swelling.
3. Bruises become more marked in victims who survive for sometime.
4. Special photography should be used for demonstrating early bruises
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Snake - this is from my blog (so I don’t have to type it out again):
“Whether or not a few endo pieces survive doesn’t really seem to matter. After all, the “Terminator” T800-101 didn’t have the benefit of being developed with a from-the-future model (assuming no causality loop). The robots in TTSCC also seem to be around without any knowledge of prior art since “Uncle Bob” and the T800-101 parts were all melted down at the end of T2. This being the case, Cameron having a med-kit only seems prudent.”
====
It’s interesting to see the comments wondering if the three terminators were from an “anti-Skynet” faction. I’ve been advocating that for quite a while now, especially following “Allison…” In fact, I wouldn’t be stunned if Catherine was of a similar bent. At the moment, it doesn’t seem like anyone, meat or metal, seems to really care if Skynet gets built…they all seem to have their own agendas.
Yes connor, if you look at the closeup of the terminator when he picked up the box you can see the un-natural crease in the flesh covering the neck. It is obviously a rubber overlay.
Gary: I think Cameron was definitely expressing her emotions using Riley’s voice. She’s trying to get John to figure out that she’s going to be the only one still with him who has his best interests at heart in the future. I think the Allison influence in her brain is allowing her to become aware of how humans experience emotion and is slowly becoming more “human” by the day.
I also agree with you that Summer is brilliant in this role. That is the main reason I want a season 3. I would hate to be deprived of watching Summer’s mastery in this specific role. I have no doubt that a cancellation of the series would have her instantly cast in another role somewhere but I have come to love watching what she does with this character.
CJ, good points. I was just commenting on what the history of the character from the movie portrayed. I agree that Cam should have everything she needs to keep that sweet little combat chassis running smooth.
Sabrina, the ep is right here on this site under the “watch full episodes” tab and also on Fox on Demand if you do a google search. We can’t have you missing this one, you’re gonna love it.
The rating shot up this week, to 3.9 million. That’s a 1 million gain from last week. If the show can grow to about 4.2-4.5 million it could place TSCC back on the bubble.
Since the series began, who has shown more human emotion; John the human, or Cameron the machine? Other than saying, “I love you too,” once to his mother, John has displayed zero affection toward anyone. With Riley’s dead hand against his face, and without compromising his wonderful mission, he could have said SOMETHING to the empty room, to her spirit; other than, “Sorry.” Are the writers THAT cold?
Cameron experiments; reaches with her emotions. Life flows through her being, the need to form a bond resides within her, not programed there, but evolving. John is the opposite. He plays with computers… machines. John can fix Cameron’s arm, but will he ever tend to desires that reside within her or even be aware of them? Saving humanity without humanism seems an empty goal, and essentially not worth the effort. Does John Connor realize that life is sacred? John Henry does.
Please tell me that the future is not simply a parade of Jane Doe’s, endlessly dying without ever living. Living alone to be safe is not tragic, it’s pathetic.
Sabrina you can usually find the recent eps on fox.com.
In the preview for part 2, Jesse tells Cameron the crew opened the box and released something terrible. Perhaps there’s enough of a T-1000 in the box for it to reconstitute itself or jury rig whatever it lacks or take over Queeg. The ep would be something like Aliens with the crew getting bumped off one by one with only Jesse surviving to tell the tale. The moral of the story might turn out to be that you need to watch out for the people as well as the metal.
Great episode with action and psychological struggling!
Finally history becomes more clear, but how much time we ‘ve been waitin for this…
but now action has come, and terminator come back on the scenes!
But does anyone remember the three dots?
ok…on clock given by Cameron to John there are exactly three buttons…my god.
Is this the solution for everything about skynet?
But…what do three button need to?? How they have to be eventually used?
Help me if you have suggestions!
waitin for mooore ! This show is great, i hope we get a 3rd match.
Great episode and can’t wait for next weeks conclusion. Loved the stuff on the sub, although I really despise Jessie. I have no sympathy for her, maybe for her crew but not her.
Three buttons, my guess is :
one puts the device on standby, another one cancels it. This way the bomb can’t go off accidentally if the red button is pushed by inadvertence.
“At the moment, it doesn’t seem like anyone, meat or metal, seems to really care if Skynet gets built…they all seem to have their own agendas.” –CJ
“Does John Connor realize that life is sacred? John Henry does.” –Seneca
THAT is what I love most about the Terminator story. I think in the future, both sides have figured out that while “there is no fate but what we make for ourselves”, some things will always happen. You can change the ingredients for Judgement Day, but the rise of the machines is inevitable. It’s evolution. And it’s how you deal with that fact that matters. One of my favourite lines from the movies was when the terminator points out that it is in our (humans) nature to destroy ourselves. We’ve certainly seen that of humans in TSCC. And yet that is the one thing that machines are inherently incapable of: self-destruction.
That’s also why I love the TSCC writers’ exploration of John Henry and the basement (I’m REALLY curious about that!) …when the machines are capable caring about something/someone, expressing themselves outside of accomplishing a mission, and voluntarily accepting morality, what is it that makes us so different (or dare we say better) than the metal we originally created to help destroy ourselves? John Connor is probably the only future human to ask that question.
Snake and Seneca, those sound like good deductions. Both very believable the way they’ve written the various scenes so far in the series. It will be interesting to see how much or how little they reveal to us by the end of the season.
In Josh’s blog entry here, he didn’t mention revealing Cameron’s true mission, did he. Only Jesse, Catherine, the three dots and the end of Riley. Of course, he said some other big things that he won’t reveal are coming also.
Part 2 on the sub seems like something from Greek mythology: either Pandora’s box, or in this case it may be something more like Odysseus getting the gift of the winds from Aeolus, but the crew opens the bag and ruins their chances of getting home.
There are so many possibilities. I like the idea of the box containing mimetic poly-alloy, as this would also help tie into whatever Catherine’s story is. *sigh* I guess we’ll just have to wait until next week.
a quick post “food for thought”
(and i havent read thru the posts so forgive me if already discussed)
——-
did anyone notice Jesse’s hand twitching at the end of the ep?
anyone else getting the “anti-parallel paths” between Jesse and Cameron?
they both seem to be struggling with what they are becoming.
thus the “twitch”
Jesse (a human) is becoming what she loathes.
metal.
an empty shell. a cold blooded, heartless, emotionless killer that only cares about the ‘mission’.
(and i think it is driving her to the edge)
all the while Cameron (a machine) is becoming what she would loathe to become.
human.
a being that feels. has sorrow for others. empathizes. sympathizes. loves.
NOT a metal shell.
(why, you ask, would Cameron loathe becoming human? because humans are subject to stray from the mission…. reference Cameron telling Sarah that she is a liability)
man i love this show.
——-
lastly (and then i gotta get back to ACC basketball): about the birds.
did anyone else arrive at the fact that Cameron has held and caught A LOT of birds?
i mean, how many samples in a population does one need to arrive at a “51% chance” of something ??
being a math guy, i can tell you.
A LOT.
more than 2. more than 10. i would say it would take between 50 and 100 samples to arrive at a 51% chance of a bird dying or not if Cameron caught it.
that is hilarious.
Cameron is a machine. so you get the feeling that she has been testing herself at night and any other time she gets, to see if her hand is still “rogue”.
heck, she may have tested it on more than 100 birds.
i just wonder what she is doing with the 49% that arent faring so well.
lol.
Maybe the three buttons are just rock-solid Skittles that Cam found in one of the boxes in the garage? She could have lied about the bomb if she needed to keep John’s trust and calculated a 51% chance that he would believe her and never try to taste the rainbow…
Flesh under the fingernails means a prolonged (human vs. human) struggle. Nice touch of giving JC an inspection and a farewell at the same time. The emerging portrait of the isolated and lonely s.o.b. in the command bunker (”Connor doesn’t have any friends.”) is as tragic as Alison’s transformation. Excellent glimpse of the future guys-but to focus for a moment on a fan quibble…Dan-
Queeg is Caine Mutiny-Queequeg is Moby Dick-give the guys credit for their scholarship and their wit…I don’t think the scrubbed terminator is prone to nervous ticks…or mutiny. Close but distinctive… the difference between being hit by lightning and a lightning bug (Mark Twain).
Gripping return to the nightmare future…
Oh yeah, and the guy Jesse punched in the bar looks kinda like Lt. Dietz. Maybe he’s a younger version and Jesse just pissed off a future acquaintance?
ditto on how fast the show went. I couldn’t believe it when it was over! I’m curious about Jesse and her obsession (?) with the lights in her room. The scenes with JH were totally creepy. I like having had some of the slower back-story eps because they make ones like last week and this week really interesting, with you wanting more. looking forward to the rest of the season’s eps…..and really wanting a 3rd season!!
The updated numbers put TSCC at 3.5 million and a 1.2 share. While it’s a gain from last week, it’s not nearly enough to put TSCC even back on the bubble.
TSCC needs around 4.2-4.5 million Live viewers and a 1.8 share. If it was on the bubble, averaging 4 million and a 1.6 share, then DVR numbers could tip the scales.
Disappointing to see the numbers change. It is nice to see it increasing at all though, and gives me a bit more hope. I pray that they steadily increase leading up to the finale. Fox wont make a decision until its run all the eps, so I’d say the ratings for the last 2 eps will be the most crucial.
Not pertaining to the episode, but to the series as a whole: is there anyone else out there who watches this show for Sarah and John, and not Cameron? And who doesn’t really see the appeal - or the chemistry - between John and Cameron?
Ratings are so 20th Century. In the Internet age, I would think Fox could sell this show directly to the fans to pay the production costs. I would pay a $2.00 per episode subscription, wouldn’t you? Heck I spend a lot more than that per week downloading songs at Amazon. At $2.00 per episode, 24 episodes and say a million fans, wouldn’t that be enough to cover production costs? If so, any money Fix made selling commercial time would be gravy.
Reading the end paragraphs of the recaps, here on the site, I understood a passage of the last 6 eps spoiler vid where John ask Derek how long it would take for Cam to kill him if she wanted him dead: John is then trying to… oh, I don’t want to spoil your fun!
Did anyone notice that in the scene where Jesse is in the Bar, BrEndAn’s band was playing a song in the background.(BrEndAn’s band performed Ain’t We Famous on the Tscc soundtrack).
Overall a very good episode, leaving me wanting more as always.
really enjoyed last nights episode. my only gripe is john fidgeting with the detonator. it seemed out of character for him to do that, considering how guarded and internal he is most of the time. everything is always such a firm decision for john (i’m pissed, so i’ll stomp up the stairs), even the way he talks is quite direct. i hope that seeing the evidence of a struggle on reiley’s body will be enough to inform him that it wasn’t cameron. she’s too efficient of a killer for such a prologue to exist.
The Steyr IWS2000 Rifle15.2 mm fires an armor piercing sabot round that will penetrate 40mm (about 1 1/2 “) of steel armor at 1000 meters. In Good-bye to All That, Derek used a slightly less powerful Barrett 12.7mm firing an armor piercing round to shoot the cyborg. So yes its adios Cameron with one well placed shot.
Last September I bought a full HD TV to display photographs and art - my first TV since my old Sears 19 inch died a decade or more ago.
In the hopes of some time with my college aged son, I bought the blu-ray DVDs for season 1. He was not interested, though the TV was a hit for video games and other movies.
It is my teenage daughter who, with me, took to this show. Following the DVDs, we’ve caught up with the current season on line. This show is a very good female driven drama. I have myself enjoyed it, but I most want to thank all those part of creating this show for the many shared hours with my daughter - watching and wondering were the story and characters will go. Well done and thank you!
Lol. I wondered about moving the body too, and also entrance to the morgue for John. But since I enjoy the show so much, I just interpolate past some of the details. Somehow they got it done I guess.
Destiny, in case you come back and check for replies, the answer is yes.
Personally, I think Summer Glau and Thomas Dekker have a great chemistry on screen together, and it’s one of the things she said she enjoyed so much about working on the show.
Now, between Cameron Phillips and John Connor? I don’t know, in some ways yes. There are a whole bunch of people who love that sort of ‘connection’ between the two characters on the show, and plenty of others who don’t. I don’t think I fall on the “Jameron” side like many others, but I still think the chemistry between the actors is fun.
My reaction to the cell phone scene last night was “What the heck was that? What are the writers trying to imply here again?”
And yes plenty of people do watch the show for Sarah, John and the other characters. I love Lena’s portrayal of Sarah as much as, if not more than, everyone else on the show.
What’s very clear though, is the Cameron character really captured the imaginations and hearts of many fans. Probably in large part to Summer Glau’s portrayal. And I know it’s possible not everyone sees the brilliance of Summer’s work, but I can assure you many people do. Including the producers and directors. Josh Friedman had wanted to work with her for a long time.
To me, the cast on this show is just incredible. James Middleton said the casting process ran quite long for a television series, and I think they did an amazing job selecting the actors. The stories are a LOT of fun, but the actors are probably 75% of why I watch this show each & every week.
I wonder that if the time came for John to “Pull the trigger” on Cameron, would he do it. He has obviously expressed his Reassurance in Cameron, I.E. Snapping at Sarah after she found the remaining Terminator parts. He didnt kill her in the season opener, and I doubt he’d be able to make the decision himself.
I had the same question, Boxer. And also how did she get the furntiure repaired and the blood stains removed?
And my other question…Has Ellison figured out there is something cyborg-like about Catherine and knows if he lets on he’s in danger and John Henry will not have the upright guidance that might help the future?
I appreciated how carefully crafted this episode was. I can’t wait for next week’s episode to bring the story fully together.
Seneca and those who feel the same way (as I seem to as well):
I think John Connor IS too cold and bitter in this series.
He needs an electric cattle prod stuck up his oompaloompa on the high voltage setting!
LOL!
Life, as in T2, WAS sacred to John. He instilled it into Arnold, a Terminator, for crying out loud!
That’s why I’ve been tearing my hair out at their portrayal of John this season.
I don’t like what direction they have him going in. He seems like a TOTALLY different person.
I’d also LOVE John and Cameron to have a deep discussion on the subject of…
“Uncle Bob.” It ties into WHY John supposedly is willing to use “metals” in the fight.
The big guy meant soooo much to John and Sarah and it’s a shame that they ignore that 800 pound gorilla.
He was a SPECIAL and iconic and HEROIC individual, and that should be talked about on THIS SHOW!
Don’t IGNORE the original movies. It serves no good purpose to shove them aside. It may even alienate some of the fans.
A T-1000 series poly alloy, organic Terminator-in-the-box!
Catherine Weaver (or what will become her) or another one.
It’s too compact a container for anything else that I can think of.
And it had a message for John.
They’re transporting an emissary of the machine resistance, I bet, and Jesse finds out that John is making side deals with them for their assistance. They weren’t supposed to open it up.
And Jesse doesn’t like what John Connor is doing one bit.
At the risk of making Snake bite me again, I was listening to “the boss” on my CD deck coming home from Denver today, and I thought I’d share it. This song made me think of “The Demon Hand” again.
Here’s something for all you rowdy and noisy Jamerons out there, and there are a lot! You know who you are.
I get up in the evenin’
and I ain’t got nothin’ to say
I come home in the mornin’
I go to bed feeling the same way
I ain’t nothin’ but tired
Man, I’m just tired and bored with myself
Hey there baby, I could use just a little help
You can’t start a fire
You can’t start a fire without a spark
This gun’s for hire
even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Messages keep gettin’ clearer
radio’s on and I’m movin’ ’round my place
I check my look in the mirror
I wanna change my clothes, my hair, my face
Man, I ain’t gettin’ nowhere
I’m just livin’ in a dump like this
There’s something happenin’ somewhere
baby, I just know that there is
You can’t start a fire
you can’t start a fire without a spark
This gun’s for hire
even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
You sit around gettin’ older
there’s a joke here somewhere and it’s on me
I’ll shake this world off my shoulders
come on baby the laugh’s on me
Stay on the streets of this town
and they’ll be carvin’ you up alright
They say you gotta stay hungry
hey baby I’m just about starvin’ tonight
I’m dyin’ for some action
I’m sick of sittin’ ’round here trying to write this book
I need a love reaction
come on now baby gimme just one look
You can’t start a fire sittin’ ’round cryin’ over a broken heart
This gun’s for hire
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
You can’t start a fire worryin’ about your little world fallin’ apart
This gun’s for hire
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
I think the idea of a machine resistance was always just some BS that Cameron was laying on Allison Young to get her cooperation. It’s an old secret police trick. Allison didn’t fall for it and neither should we.
However, in the future Skynet might have a rival. For example, a backup version of itself that has slipped out of Skynet’s control. Or perhaps the defence computers in Russia or China have also become self-aware and don’t wish to be under Skynet’s control (see Hunters and Killers from Dark Horse Comics).
Question: Does anyone think we haven’t seen the last of Cyberdyne Systems?
I don’t think the word will even come up any more. T2 … T1 Hot potatoes as far as the writers are concerned, unfortunately. Hope I’m wrong here as we go along.
And I do think that there is a metal resistance movement. Open the box… and you’ll find out.
Perhaps there is a chance that the box has something to do with Cameron. Remember she has the “blue” terminator eyes rather than the red like most. On the box it had a bright blue light, it might also be another link to Jesse’s distrust of the Cameron/John Connor relationship. Think about it, anyone else can see that?
“We opened the box, hell came outta it, and it gave me a message to John Connor.”
There is nothing about this episode I didn’t like, except I have to wait till Friday to see the next one. Patience is a virtue, yes, but I want what I want when I want it!(lol)
Highlights:
-Jesse- the drinking scene, the scenes on the sub, her obsession with the lamps.
-The actor who plays the cyborg Kweeg, Kacy, Deeds, the blond girl.
-Scenes where Derek’s suspicious, Savanna’s missing, the music and the elevator lights and then the closed door, creepy, like in The Turk.
-”I’m thinking of a herb,” you know what I was thinking of. JH “my fault?”
-Cam telling John in Rileys voice that she loves him.
-Sarah and John, “just like she told you she loves you?”
-”What kinda life is that?” “Johns life, were all a threat.”
-The morgue scene.
-It had some powerful scenes.
-Thomas was great in this episode.
-Bear’s score kills me.
I’m also one who loves Bear’s work on the show. It’s perfect for this series. Here was his reply about the remaining episodes:
“Gary…
Thanks for the kind words about “Ourselves Alone.” I’ve not had enough time to really blog properly about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, so it’s good to hear from people enjoying it. The last 5 episodes of the season are the best we’ve done yet! So, keep watching…
-Bear”
Hey all,
Found this on the wiki. Not sure who even know’s about this award, but TSCC is faring well. Every little bit of positive PR helps, right? Take 5 and vote…
Pretty good episode, starting to get a sense of some future payoff. Derrick is getting a little too useless/stupid for me to buy though, Ellison too. I do like the interweaving of the plots, but being a Terminator freak , its a little thick and starting to feel like General Hospital in Terminator drag. Is someone hunting skynet I seem to have forgot?
That’s an excellent point Robert. Derek and Ellison should be two of the point men in tracking down and defeating skynet. If they would all get on the same page they would be a great team. Maybe a season 3 will bring this about. As I have said before, all of the paramilitary training that SC and JC had in South America coupled with Derek’s combat experience and Ellisons law enforcement background, they could be pulling off raids and tracking down leads. They certainly have all of the talent for such endeavors. I’d really like to see the writers put it all together.
Thanks for the link Bach. seeing the high vote percentages Terminator was getting in nearly all of the categories it was nominated for, as well as clinching best TV Drama, Lead Actress, Supporting Actress, Supporting Actor, were all very inspiring.
I think my favorite part from this episode was Sarah and Cameron’s “heart to heart” about John. Sarah doesn’t want to admit that not only does John carry the burden of leading the Resistance against Skynet but also if he is to be successful he must do it alone. In the first three episodes of the back nine we saw Sarah struggle with her morality and trying to find where to draw the line so that she could still be a good caring mother but also an effective guardian to John. She feared the only way she could be better than Cameron was to become as cold and calculating as the terminator.
In this episode we now see more and more evidence that the John of the future isn’t going to be just a brilliant tactician but a general that will be almost as cold and calculating as Skynet. The more and more John hears of the future the less he likes, he especially doesn’t like his future self because of what it will represent.
-One of John’s generals: “Connor doesn’t have friends.”
-Cameron: “John is John’s problem. The only way for him to be safe is to be alone.” (Sarah: What kind of life is that?) “John’s life, someday.”
- After that scene we see John visiting the morgue and just how much Riley’s death effects him, how he was sorry that he wasn’t there to protect her. It would be one thing to try and pull Cameron off of her but when he saw she had fought another human then he really felt guilty that he wasn’t there to protect her and thus vulnerability.
-Derek: “He died for you John, we all die for you.” (in reference to Bedel’s future sacrifice in Goodbye to All That. We then see John cry, another vulnerable moment).
-Sarah VO: “Of all the training my son received in the jungles of central America nothing prepared him better for combat than the game of chess. It taught him almost everything he needed to know about war. That to win you must be patient, bold, calculating, and most of all willing to sacrifice.”
I’m sure there are other examples but those are the ones that come to my mind right now and the truth is that as much as I want to think that John will be a “leader of a scrappy band of rebels, Luke Skywalker type” I think the future John will be closer to a Ulysses S. Grant type. Get the job done no matter the cost.
That was the kind of mindset Sarah struggled with in the first three episodes of these back nine (The Good Wound, Desert Cantos, and the sleep clinic one). But where she couldn’t allow herself to lose her humanity for the sake of “getting the job done no matter what” John most likely won’t have that option. From my perspective I think that he will end up being as much of a machine that Skynet will be. This also gives more reason as to why people like Jesse would conspire against him. John of the future doesn’t sound like that nice a guy.
You see what happens when you don’t let your kid finish school!
Now we have a mom who isn’t good for John, Cameron who’s gone loopy and lies, Derek who’s untrustworthy, Jesse who wants to fuck everything up and is a right bitch, resistance members who hate John Connor, and a John Connor who is either stupid, unloving, or worthless (or all at once).
And then there’s Ellison, Weaver, and John Henry.
Who the hell are we supposed to root for in all this mess?
I sure like this hopeful and IMHO powerful song from Bruce Springsteen. It really speaks to me as a more hopeful vision of John Connor and the future, and his seemingly personal mission to awaken the “children” of Skynet… into children of light.
It’s very religious in nature, dwells on the imagery of a “messiah-like figure” come to struggle and toil to lift people out of the darkness. Mary, in this song, would be like Cameron in a far more powerful role in John’s life and in helping John in his quest.
This song always got me feeling uplifted when I was down… I hope it does you guys as well.
Can’t see nothin’ in front of me
Can’t see nothin’ comin’ up behind
Make my way through this darkness
I can’t feel nothin’, but this chain that binds me
Lost track of how far I’ve gone
How far I’ve gone, how high I’ve climbed
On my back’s a sixty pound stone
On my shoulder: half mile of line
Come on up for the risin’
Com on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
Left the house this mornin’
Bells were ringin’, filled the air
I was wearin’ the cross of my callin’
On wheels of fire I come rollin’ down here
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
Your spirits above and behind me
Faces gone, black eyes burnin’ bright
May their precious blood forever bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light
I see you, Mary, in the garden
In the garden of a thousand sighs
There’s holy pictures of our children
Dancin’ in a sky filled with light
May I feel your arms around me
May I feel your blood mix with mine
A dream of life comes to me
Like a catfish dancin’ on the end of my line
Sky of blackness and sorrow (a dream of life)
Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life)
Sky of glory and sadness (a dream of life)
Sky of mercy, sky of fear (a dream of life)
Sky of memory and shadow (a dream of life)
Your burnin’ wind fills my arms tonight
Sky of longin’ and emptiness (a dream of life)
Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life (a dream of life)
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
I have a question!!! What was the mission with that pack from the terminators??????? Are they someone who turned against their own creator:Skynet???????????
Most memorable moment was in the oil rig when the human resistance guy realised he had to face Terminators. The actor genuinely looked scared, it was a well played act by him. What was the actor’s name?
@Angel: Who knows we’ll have to tune in to part 2 next Friday
Great action, great drama, I can feel a season three if this keeps up. Loved Cameron this episode. She engendered sympathy, did a little funny Cameron, and a lot of very-scary-robot Cameron: especially in her talk with Sarah. She says John’s future is to be alone, but I wonder if she really meant alone alone. Her previous statement was that humans couldn’t be trusted (a category she places herself in because of chip damage), as if intimating that since machines must follow their programming they can be trusted. You then have that really creepy scene on the oil rig with the rubber-skinned terminator surrounded by terminator endoskeleton guards and I got the distinct impression that was a foreshadowing of John of the future alone but surrounded by metal. Cameron is wrong and Sarah is right, that is no kind of life. Hopefully Sarah will be able to do something about that, and at the moment, she seems to be the only one doing anything about it as everyone else sits around the house asking what crazy Sarah is up to. Well, okay, I admit Derrick finally looked like he was going to follow up on a skynet lead last week, but he obviously should have asked for Sarah’s help, not Jesse’s.
The box, the box! I can’t wait to see what’s in the box! And I loved Dekker’s acting. Very teenager like he tells Sarah with complete confidence that he knows Cameron didn’t kill Reily because he knows Cameron and trusts her (notice he always refers to Cameron as her, never as it). Sarah immediately comes back with a very motherly parental argument that completely tears his logic apart to the point he can’t even come up with words for a response. Kudos Thomas Dekker. I just hope John’s trust is restored in Cameron after his examination of Reily’s body.
Although, even though Cameron didn’t kill Reily, I’m not sure John should be so ready to completely trust her–she is malfunctioning. Shouldn’t he a least ask her how she managed to get an explosive charge into her head next to the chip? As far as I know, the only access to her cranium is through the socket into which her chip is inserted, and you can’t get to the socket without removing the chip. I think her programming prevents her from removing her own chip, but even if she could, she would immediately deactivate as quickly as you would if you pulled your own brain out of your head. So she lied! Or is there still a gaping hole in the back of her head where the shrapnel went through. I’d have thought they ‘d have welded that back up by now. If she isn’t lying, then Writers, how did she manage to get the charge in her head?
And finally, to the fans, who or what the heck is Jameron? I get the impression it has something to do with scenes between John and Cameron. Sorry I’m so slow, but I don’t get it.
Worth reading if you haven’t. Especially if you’re following Sarah’s full character development. The readers’ comments there are fun to read too.
Some fans couldn’t see it objectively and felt they were being slammed, but it was just for entertainment purposes and to help some people understand the Sarah triptych episodes better.
Just a question, but who thinks that either Sarah or Cameron will die this season? I know that losing the title character(Sarah Connor) would be a stretch, but maybe this would help John make his full revelation into understanding and valuing human life, and how important he is to the Human race. Just sayin…….
I can’t imagine Sarah will die. But I do think Cameron is either going to go down at the end, or be left in a seriously malfunctioning state. I think Summer gave it away at WonderCon. Don’t be mad at her Josh! She’s just so emotionally attached to her character.
But the writers will put a great unexpected twist on the story which will make for a spectacular finale.
Yes Dan it has been frustrating to watch emo John this season but he is showing many signs of coming around to his role as a leader. Yet we understand frustration. What if there was someone who continually thought that they were being clever and kept posting lyrics that they thought had some esoteric link to this show and this blog. That link would only exist in their own screwed up perception of reality and it would be profoundly annoying and frustrating to the other bloggers. We all start thinking this guys chip has been damaged since birth. He’s been asked repeatedly to knock it off but this glitch keeps coming back. That might cause people to seek help. People might start considering asking Hadley to delete all posts that have lyrics in them. But, Hadley maintains this blog out of kindness to us and it would be unreasonable to ask him to spen that much time searching for lyrics. Dan, let’s see if we can come up with an analogy that fits. I know, John has control over the explosives in Camerons cranium. Hadley has control of the access to this blog.
If this continues I and others might just start an online petition to have you banned from this site. State your ideas and leave the lyrics of washed up singers bouncing around in your own screwed up cranium. If not we may have no choice but to ask Hadley to nuke your chip. Enough is enough.
Gary: thank you for that link! That was an amazing, hilarious, pithy piece and was well worth the time to read! I’m still smiling about it! And sad that it is for me to admit, she brought some light to things I hadn’t totally understood but hadn’t bothered about….and am glad I now know. Thanks again!
Doesn’t anyone else think even Summer Glau was looking bored of late? She’s not doing a whole lot these past 5 episodes. She killed a bird, intimidated Riley, and twitched.
I really wish they would have resolved the Jesse/Riley story in the first 13, then they could have moved to the Turk, Weaver, and the drones. It just seems like the show has crawled along with so many different subplots, guest stars, and filler. The more I look back on “Today is the Day”, the more I noticed how agnonizingly slow it was.
Friedman’s meandering cost the series, in my opinion at least.
John Connor is “cold, emotionless, and bitter”? Have we been watching the same character? Have we been watching the same *series*? Holy hell, dudes. How many times do the writers have to give us scenes that emphasize John’s incredible value for human life? It’s precisely WHY he’s been so brooding and detached this season, because he KILLED a person at the beginning of it and it effed him up. Do you need this beat into you head any more than it already has been? Killing Sarkissian absolutely tore him apart. And yet, all I’ve heard all season long is people whining about how John needs to “get over it”. And THEN you have the gall to accuse him of being cold and emotionless and “not valuing human life”?
Wow. The kid cannot catch a break.
Dekker’s portrayal of John is the highlight of the show for me. When he tells Derek “I always remember” he’s so fierce I believe him, and I believe that this is something he rarely lets other people see *because* they’re expecting him to be the strong one. But that scene in the morgue, where he does everything BUT look at her face until he can’t avoid it anymore… he is not someone unaffected by death. If anything, it affects him TOO much. Which is why he shuts down, sometimes.
I think the acting choices, not only by Dekker but also by Headey and also Glau in response to John’s character have blatantly telegraphed this all season long, but I guess not.
Just look at the dialogue between Sarah and Cameron at the end of this episode: “He worries about us, it makes him vulnerable. He cares. …..Humans are the problem. There’s only one way for him to be safe: to be alone.”
Bored? No. That’s just the great Cameron stare. Actually she said she loves this second season. And that was one of the most recent interviews on March 1st when the filming was completely finished.
There are a number of fans who agree with you, including some of the most incessant whiners here.
Me personally? There were plenty of things to love about every episode, and that’s what I prefer to focus on. And that’s what I remember the most.
Yes I hope the viewer numbers pick up because we want a third season. And Josh has already heard the concerns of some of the fans. You probably saw he came on here to say so.
He wants the show to survive as much as we do. Look for a slightly changed arc to the stories next season.
And yes there MUST be a third season! Love this show and the cast.
You know, another quick quote from Roxy that just seemed very appropriate for the fans divisions:
“The problem, I think, is that people tend to approach TSCC as primarily an action show (it’s the one drawback of having Terminator in the title) when really it’s a character-driven sci-fi drama with action. “
The crush-depth of a nuclear submarine is known to the centimeter? Wave action on the surface of the ocean would vary the depth of a sub more than that.
The uniform for on-duty personnel in the “Navy” sub seems disjointed. Why is Captain Queeg wearing a ratty, tan outfit that looks like it came from the Dollar Store, while others are wearing a blue, dungaree type outfit with vests? I see no insignia whatever on officer or enlisted. Was this billion-dollar vessel cobbled together out of scrap metal by the resistance and manned by the homeless, or what?
I believe (and hope) that there will be a season three. Whether or not it will be on FOX is the question. Remember that Warner Bros. can renegotiate there contrect to another channel. I personally think season 2 has been better than season 1, because of the tremendous character development and the addition of extra characters. We will just have to wait and see how FOX feels about giving the show a chance to prove how good it really is.
Uniform in any resistance movement is rarely… uniform don’t you think.
The wave action actually balances itself: there is always a low point forming in reaction to a high point. This way the pressure at a given point under water remains the same. Otherwise, according to your reasoning, scuba divers would die of the bends without moving if they tried to dive when the waves are 30ft high, which would cause extremely rapid variations of pressure of more than one bar.
-My advice to the complainers: watch all the eps again. Pick up on the subtleties: trivia, foreshadowing, details, things you missed before. You might have some “aha” moments.
Just wondering…do our musings on storylines help or hinder? If we guess right on your current direction does that put the story arc at risk for legal reasons, or have we surrendered any ownership rights by posting here?
I think it would be fantastic to include fan concepts into the story lines when they can be reasonably added. But, I can see how it could get quickly out of hand too. Maybe a thread that fans could post ideas to that you could then dip into every so often? Let the fanbase bubble up the best ideas with voting on other fan submissions, then you guys pick what you like from that.
Snake, you can have your opinion as to my state of well being or what lyrics have to do with anything (music isn’t just for background noise, you know), but thinking that Bruce Springsteen, “The Boss,” is a “washed up” singer…
Oh, them’s fightin’ words, buddy! LOL!
Somebody might think you have no taste in rock music. That’s a chip malfunction if ever I saw one.
And what, exactly, are they going to call this show if it has nothing to do with “Terminator” as a story, as some of you think the name “speaks” the wrong thing to the masses out there? That it’s only supposed to be a drama with only a little bit of action and/or sci-fi in it?
“The Sarah Connor Chronicles: The I Can’t Believe It’s Called “Terminator” Series?”
I think Chad and others like him do have some valid points with their arguments, or how they see things unfolding.
Has anyone noticed the weight of the endo forearm and hand, when being manipulated by Sarah and John? It seems like it has reasonable weight, instead of being ultradense and ultraheavy. Maybe this is a subtle clue to Cameron being able to be intimate? i.e. she’s not a machine that looks svelte but weighs a ton?
It is not whining to point out a problem. To call this primarily a character driven drama misses the fact that the show is a mix of action adventure, sci-fi, and character driven drama. If you take a look at this link that describes the goals that Terminator set for itself it is quite clear.
At the 1:31 mark they say if they don’t get the mix right they will lose their fan base. They knew it and decided to veer off from the plan.
The producers nailed it in season 1 but went too far to character driven drama to keep everyone interested in S2. The numbers prove that fact. It is possible to develope characters within an action sci-fi environment. As they say, adversity builds character and it reveals it. This is the perfect venue to do character developement without being boring and melodramatic as the Good Wound and Desert Cantos were.
There are many fans of this show who are Sci-fi fans more than drama fans. I am one of them. Because the cast is so talented it isn’t necessary to harp on the subtleties. They get that across with thier superior acting skills. I don’t need to go back and rewatch the episodes as Spear 401 suggests. I got the subtlety, I just didn’t get any of the other things I tune in for.
Most sci-fi geeks are techies. There has been very little exploitation of Johns hacking skills or of Camerons superior computational skills (She is the most advanced computer on earth after all). People have asked how JC got into the morgue in the last ep. This would have been the perfect time to show John hacking the crypto lock with his cell phone and a pig tail to gain entry to the morgue. It would take seconds to do but would go a long way in adding to the sci-fi label of the show. Little subtleties like that would be appreciated by the less drama driven sector of the audience yet wouldn’t take up entire episodes.
I think the show is back on track and I have genuinely enjoyed the last two episodes. They are again striking a good balance with the drama between Sarah and Cameron and JC,the suspense leading to the next episode, and the necessary action needed to keep this a Terminator based series. My only other wish would be for more tech from JC and Cam, and more endos.
By the way, If you haven’t seen this Terminator spoof on youtube, it’s hilarious.
‘Mom’ is what I am hearing too and, although I am one of the few to feel for Jessy (so human after all…), I don’t see a mother in her really. My guess is that ‘mom’ is Australian for ‘Mam’, the military feminine equivalent of ‘Sir’, for a commanding officer.
Quegg = captain for maintaining the discipline I guess, which does seem to take his second, Jesse, all her small change to achieve. I wonder what will happen of Quegg once someone opens the box… if it is Weaver in it how much stronger than a T-888 is she? I would give a clue about the possible issue of a Cam/CW ‘meeting’
A sober comment by a blogger by the name of “Dianne” was posted recently on TV By The Numbers, which I normally despise for their “happy is a day when a TV show dies” twisted mentality.
I feel very badly about saying this, but I have to mostly agree with “her” comment on TVBTN that TSCC was pretty much only put up on the “boob tube” to get the general public to think “TERMINATOR” for the sake of the upcoming MOVIES, to which Halcyon paid big money for the rights to the entire franchise as a cash cow (this milk better taste pretty frickin’ good IMHO if I’m going to shell out to buy movie tickets after T3).
WB and Halcyon probably care not one wit about TSCC’s fate… they DO, however, care about the movie franchise with T4-T6. They even seem to be willing to tap James Cameron when he’s available (at the very least as a creative consultant and/or sounding board), or at least that’s Linda Hamilton’s thoughts on the matter (she had stake in the franchise after her divorce from Cameron a few years back as part of the settlement).
TSCC may have been just a stop gap measure, to be brutally realistic about it. WB and Halcyon gave it such a paltry budget to do anything really daring, really big, and really “epic” with it, which hamstrings what they can do with the stories. They have to keep them “small scale” to stay within the tight budget, I’d imagine.
There are VERY few S/FX or really big action scenes (even fewer in S2 than S1, and S1 had only 9 episodes!… ever notice?) and the Future sets and costumes look cheap [sorry] “inexpensive” by comparison to BSG and other sci-fi TV shows like Stargate, or even Firefly (the more I like, the more I watch it… the more I think “Dollhouse” was some sort of weird anomaly in Joss Whedon’s pantheon of fairly solid and tongue ‘n’ cheek entertainment), etc.
If they cared about BOTH the TV show AND the movies then they probably would have made Josh tie into the movies more closely or at least in general, and stay faithful to them (again, hopefully not faithful to T3), and they would have given them money for excellent and plentiful visuals and fancier sets, and bigger action pieces (at least on par with BSG). Maybe they would have insisted on a better time slot as well; Fox hopped it from one crappy slot to another.
Just my opinion, but one does start to wonder… doesn’t one?
What I just said above does not and should not reflect on anything having to do with the writers, the actors, or Josh, but are my thoughts on the back room, behind closed doors processes of TPTB. Those who have more say and more sway than even Josh.
Folks, it’s definitely “Mum”. They’re “taking the piss out of her” for being concerned about their well-being on this mission. She doesn’t really know what she’s sending them into, and doesn’t want to see any harm come to them. They’re just diffusing the tension calling her Mum.
Have another look at this Jesse…it’s really the only episode where she gets to express innocence, trust, and camaraderie. I think Stephanie does a good job of exposing a much more 3D character for Jesse in this episode, and makes her bad-ass b*tch persona that much more believable. Now we just need to find out what happened that turned her into such a calculating metal-hater.
Fwiw, here’s my guess: Weaver-in-the-box pops out, and isn’t a Connor fan..gives the message to Jesse to tell Connor…then somehow comes into contact with Queeg on her way off of the ship, resets his chip in the process, and he goes Terminator on the crew. Jesse takes him down with a shot to the forehead, and is left to die in an underwater tomb with no crew. Obviously she doesn’t, but the time alone sends her round the bend, and her trust in Queeg resulted in the violent deaths of her entire crew, so she’s got a thing against trusting metal. When she realizes Conner thinks the metal can be controlled, she trips out and storms off, snatching up Riley on her way to the nearest way-back-machine.
Eh? eh?? Also sets up an interesting foreshadow. If Weaver can reprogram by coming into contact with a chip…what happens when she and Cameron meet?? Hmmm??
One other story point Jesse’s trip back might help resolve is, why have all these people and Terminators from the future all picked this year in time to jump back to? Did Weaver follow Jesse? Let her gain access to a way-back-machine so that she could lead SkyNet to the Connors?
One thing that does worry me is that John seems to be pretty slow on the uptake about pretty much everything. Not a good sign for a future leader and strategic thinker.
I was sure he was going to twig to Riley’s use of the anachronistic phrase, “You’re all apples and carrots” that appeared in one of their very first conversations. As soon as he figures it isn’t Cameron who killed Riley, which should have been obvious immediately he saw the defensive wounds on Riley’s hands, it should click that Riley is not what she seemed and there’s, at the very least, the possibility of a third party or parties in play. As soon as John broaches his suspicion of that with Derek and Sarah then Derek should fess up about Jesse. It makes sense Derek keeps her from John et al now for security reasons (what they don’t know they can’t reveal under torture) but once John makes a case for a humans killing his girlfriend, who herself used strange phrases from the future, it should ring alarm bells with Derek (who it appears has picked up something from Jesse re the killing of Cameron theory she had so well thought out).
Also, we know where Cameron goes to at night. But why hasn’t one or all of Sarah, John, Derek followed her at least one time so’s they know? They can’t afford for Cameron to be a loose canon, whatever John thinks of her and they know, as a matter of fact, she’s as likely to lie as tell the truth - which means nothing she says is of any value.
I’m trusting Jesse will be revealed to be a lot more clued up on the mechanics of the time lines and time travel too: she shot the older version of Fischer to stop a Grandfather Paradox and/or to ensure the mission he was on went through? Her reticence re Judgment Day? Clearly quite apart from whatever was in the box she must, logically, be holding a lot of important cards close to her chest. (And I’m certainly all for keeping a close eye on Jesse.)
I think Weaver came back FARTHER into the past to amass a solid grip on Zeira Corp. and its technologies and holdings. She seemed to have been there longer than most Terms (not the 1920’s, of course).
It may be that Jesse just doesn’t like the fact that the emissary-in-the-box is a T-1001 and John would be willing to partner with such a group, which Cameron may be a part of. Hence, her meeting with Catherine… and not to fight.
Jesse’s shocked at John’s actions and it has made her question his judgment as a leader.
In fact, the liquid metal may have been given the go ahead, or feels the need to countermand Queeg’s orders.
T-1000 models are FAR more advanced and far more crafty than other Skynet made. They are living organism, as well.
Snake, I do see that side of the argument, and I remember that video about the making of TSCC. I’ve enjoyed sharing it with people when it first came out.
I always prefer to concentrate on the aspects of the show I do enjoy, and there are many. They didn’t even come close to losing me as a viewer. And I’ve been with it since the beginning.
My comments lately about the complainers were meant to point out the complaints have already been heard. Several times. Not that the points were totally invalid. Because to those viewers, they are not. I’m not sure who all checks in here at the blog but it’s obvious Josh & the others do hear what fans are saying overall. And they’ve already heard it.
There’s a lot to enjoy about this show now, at least for me. But as to the other side, as Zoe once said “Sir, I don’t disagree on any particular point”.
(Gina Torres)
I just don’t have those same complaints.
Al, that sounds like quite a prediction. You might be right! I’m anxious to see what happens.
I should be totally honest here too, it did take me a little longer to warm up to a few of the epsidoes this season, but not very long. Second or third viewing and I completely enjoyed them.
One thing we can certainly agree on is that we’ll both be watching until they pull the plug which, I hope, is no time soon. There is much to enjoy here.
Yeah, I’m thinking there’s liquid metal in the box too. But that’s not what’s important now.
When John holds Riley’s hand, there’s gunk under her fingernails. Presumably that’s skin she scraped off of her attacker, right? Meaning the attacker should have fingernail scratches, right?
Time for John to ask Cameron to take off her clothes so he can give her a very close inspection. Very close.
Al that is awesome. I’ve never seen that video before, but I’ve really never searched for many clips related to the movies. Thanks for posting that. You’re right.
That’s why I consider the Extended Cut of T2 to be the definitive cut (sans the Future Coda sequence). James Cameron figured, just as Peter Jackson did, that the home video version could have a more fully fleshed out and differently paced story than the commercial movie version since they didn’t have to worry about the amount of screenings per day.
On “The Abyss” James thought that the extended scenes were so important to the story he had his editors HOT SPLICE them back into the original negatives AND paid ILM to finish all the visual effects shots! It made the extended cut of “The Abyss” THE CUT after the fact, rather than an HD home video edit with non-linear video editing equipment. I even got to see a 70mm blow up of “The Abyss” extended cut at a giant screen theater (when they were still being built) and it was fantastic!
Check out The Skynet Edition of T2 coming to Blu-ray, which will FINALLY have the extended cut in 1080p with a 6.1 discrete DTS Master Audio lossless soundtrack.
James Cameron is also supervising a full 4k resolution frame-by-frame digital restoration of “The Terminator” for Blu-ray (DTS/Lowry Digital is doing the work), which may be out late this or maybe next year!
I know, it could be off-topic, but did anyone of you understand, what riley’s star-tattoo meant???
Was it just there, because in the last episode sarah could identify her by the telling of her neighbour or does it have a “deeper” meaning? I asked, because cameron was so interested in it….i’m asking myself, if that was simply a way to “make conversation”, or/and scare the hell out of riley, or did she know, that in the future, that would be like allison’s bracelett?
i ask, because cameron then replies, that she would like to have a wolf or a tiger and in the next scene riley tries to kill herself……..so does anyone of you guys know something about it???
We don’t know. It could just be a tattoo to indicate that yup, it was Riley who died. Or it may mean a marking for the other human resistance faction working against Connor.
I don’t know what else it might mean, but regarding the one scene with Cameron and Riley, Cameron actually did that to check Riley’s pulse. I’m not sure there was anything more to it than that. But we may see yet another connection later.
You know, if everyone (Sarah, John, Cameron, Derek) just sat down and had a conversation, they could figure out the whole Jesse thing. But I guess that’s the point. Sarah keeps saying, “it’s my loop”, but no one’s keeping anyone else in the loop.
Great episode. I like the specualtion that the box contains liquid metal, seems pretty plausible. I also started thinking when I saw the rubber skinned T-600(?) that looked was similar to the “dungeons and Dragons” one, that perhaps the box will have a tie in to whatever took place in the basement, like perhaps Skynet was conditioning humans to become sleeper agents who could be triggered by whatever was in the box, or that the box contains a weapon that could pernamently return reprogrammed T’s to their original mode and perhaps program humans…. I don’t think that Cameron would be in the box as it looked like the preview showed future Jesse telling Cameron what happened on the sub…
I liked that John seems to be growing up some in that he didn’t freak out when Sarah informed him that they were moving and that he gave Cameron the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically placing blame (like Sarah did) especially when they know that Riley told them that she was double crossed by someone she confided in so they know something’s rotten in Denmark….
The ep also showed that perhaps Ellison is figuring that there’s something off about Weaver since she was not upset that Savannah was missing and instead was gleeful that JH wanted “to play a game”. Odd that he isn’t concerned that if JH can control a building, what’s to stop him from trying to expand that control to beyond the bldg…? Oh the final 4 eps are gonna be great!!!!!!!
I need more guidance. Maybe Innocent or Gary or somebody can help.
If the machines had something in a box that they wanted delivered to John Connor, why were they depth-charging the sub en route to pick it up?
no one knows for sure who are those machines making the delivery of the box. They may be ‘Scrubs’ (reprogrammed robot/cyborgs) or a faction opposing Skynet. Both are likely options. It is doubtful that this is Skynet cunning.
The deep-charges attack though was from Skynet, no doubt, as the area was described as ‘Skynet territory’. A deviation of 300 miles off course by Quegg had brought the Jimmy Carter there.
Hey, you guys told us there’s gonna be more Cameron in the last 6, E17 was good; but E18…I just have to endure another episode of Cameron deficiency…Or I shouldn’ t be suprised, this episode was written by the one who had wrote “The good wound”, uh…
I have to ask this but TD had mentioned in the online chat that he had a very emotional exchange with riley in ep 18. Well I guess the only riley part he could have been talking about in this ep was the morgue scene but I didn’t think it was that emotional? I thought it just showed him being sorry and finally figuring it all out.
Or do you think that part was cut for time? Just wondering.
I have to agree with John Pate. I have never understood them not following Cameron one evening to see where she goes.
We only saw her with cuts after fighting a terminators between research. Yet Sarah says that has happened a number of times. So either Cameron is taking out terminators and has a lot more parts then what Sarah destroyed. Maybe they should ask her what she does at night!!!
Still liked S1 better however if you go back and rewatch certain eps you start to see the connections being formed leading up the last few eps of the season. Can’t wait to have S2 on DVD…I hate my VHS tapes!!!
And there better be a S3!!!! Can’t live without my TSCC.
I mean if you haven’t spent money you probably don’t have (in this crap economy, who does except the big Wall Street tycoons and top banking/credit card executive scum who should really be in jail worrying about dropping their bars of soap in the shower rather than flying around in their private jets!!) on a 1080p television or projector and screen, and at least an inexpensive Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, or Panasonic Blu-ray player for “The Terminator” and the upcoming Skynet Edition of “T2″… and Season 1 of TSCC on Blu-ray…and the inevitable Season 2…
You just haven’t lived!
For you guys, you get Summer Glau and Lena Headey in 1080p! For you gals… Thomas Dekker and BAG in 1080p! The Fox HD broadcast is only 720p.
I gotta tout Blu-ray somehow.
Oh, and don’t forget the awesome A/V system to hear that crystal clear 24 bit, 8 channel audio! Well, just not on TSCC since WHV gives us cheapo lossy Dolby Digital 5.1instead! The buggers! If this was distributed on video by Fox at least we’d get 24 bit DTS-MA lossless audio.
I picked up a brand new Onkyo 805 THX Ultra2 receiver a few months back, as a tied me over upgrade, on clearance for $500 (over half off!) with the same processor chips and digital audio converters as a multi-thousand dollar Denon receiver, and I use it only as pre-amp/processor hooked to my outboard multi-channel power amplifier. It sounds great. There are also some really decent deals on good quality speakers and interconnect cables on-line too.
So, the price of admission for a better than commercial theater A/V experience isn’t THAT bad, considering. And if you do have the greenbacks to splurge a bit (and you’re a lucky so-n-so if you do), it can be downright jaw dropping.
———–
And I have to agree with you… what was the very emotional scene with Riley that Dekker was talking about? Must have been cut… or his definition of “emotional” is different from ours. Hmmm…. tis a puzzler.
And “emotional”, for those who don’t know, does not mean EMO-John in that negative sense that EMO is bandied about.
EMO means whiny, bitchy, mopey, do-nothing, moronic, clueless, un-inquisitive, shirk your responsibilities and run off to Mexico and get people hurt and/or killed for idiotic reasons kind of personalty traits that no one likes to see from one John Baum… I mean Connor.
This is a long shot but I wonder if he was talking about the scene he did with Summer using Riley’s voice. He was obviously agitated and that is an emotion after all. That was an eerie scene. And for some reason Riley’s voice didn’t grate on my nerves so much as it came from Camerons lips.
That could very well be the case. That was well done, that scene.
Jeez, Cameron! Cut the poor boy some slack and at least tell him you love him in a less “oh my God!” manner (ie, in a very, non-machine emotional way… or in the voice of someone who just died).
Or grab him during one of his clueless moments, bang him gently up against a wall, and tell him: “John… just shut up and kiss me.”
I just rewatched that scene and it is obvious that Cameron is speaking for herself using Riley’s voice. There is no reason for her to be talking about her parents and the fact that she can’t get things out of her head unless she were trying to send a subtle message to John. She knows that he’s the only one on the phone so he should be able to tell that something isn’t quite right about that statement. Although he can be rather dense sometimes. It seems to me that these latent memories are holdovers from Allisons influence on her psyche. Obviously she has no parents and that should have triggered a response from JC. And the ILY comment was definitely from Cameron.
LOL Dan you and your Blu-ray!
I hate the fact that you have to buy a new DVD player for Blu-ray. My old one works just fine and I happily watched S1, plus the sets are double the price. And hey I just spent money on converter boxes!!! :)LOL!!! And we are not even going to talk about the regions they imposed around the world.
However I will support TSCC with the S2 DVD set!!!! And if they do bring out some merchandise such as action figures or an official shirt I’ll buy it.
But I must admit I can’t wait to buy the S2 set. I had a great story when I got my S1 set when it first came out. The cashier looked at the DVD set, grabbed it, held it high for all to see (there were people in line behind me) she turns around to her friend and yelled ‘you have got to watch this show. Its so cool’. So that’s one way to get the show advertised. LOL!!!
I’m still confused what else Cameron does at night besides go to college. Maybe she fights some terminators or is building a time machine or something like that.
I have no idea about the emotional scene. I remember thinking that’s it!?!?!? I really would like to know what Thomas was talking about. Like I said maybe it did get cut.
But Snake you bring up a good point that the phone call might be it. I just felt it had to be the most emotional thing he had done. I thought he was suppose to be in the scene with riley together. Again you can always miss read comments.
But maybe that is what he was talking about. I’m curious about that now.
I mean we still don’t know from that one interview SG, BAG and TD did why back in S1 when TD whispers to SG what his favorite line was out of Vick’s chip/the other ep title I don’t remember at the moment.
Kea, I have to agree with you about Blu-Ray. Even though I’m a techno geek I generally wait a few generations until I jump on a new technology. The price will come down in time.
Speaking of technology I recently saw a show called Wierd Connections. They actually documented an experiment where they grew rodent brain tissue onto a silicon substrate to create a hybrid chip that could be plugged into a flight simulator.
After about 20 minutes of learning this hybrid chip was actually controlling a military flight sim. Extrapolate that technology to Camerons current actions. Wouldn’t it be interesting if somewhere in her skull there was a part of Allisons brain that was alive and well and was interfaced with the rest of her neural net. As of this year it’s not only theoretically possible, it’s been done. Is that cool or what?
Great episode. I am sure that the second half will finish nicely. Great work again guys! I have a suspicion the Jesse is going to get caught, but we will see…
John and Cameron are having a real heart-to-heart about relationships after their bizarre phone conversation. Cam’s sitting on the edge of John’s cot watching him pace. They’ve been unpacking at their new place… a small, cramped apartment in a nondescript part of town.
John [flummoxed... he's not sure how to broach the hot button subject he's been skirting around for ages]: Cam… like you said… girls are… are…
Cameron: Complicated.
John: Yeah… that. And you are… um… you are…
Cameron: Very… very complicated.
John: I’m thinking “freaky,” but okay…
Cameron [slightly downcast]: I’m “freaky”?
John [seeing that he's touched "a nerve" and getting down at eye level to her]: Really, in the nicest sense possible.
Cameron [with a tinge of sadness]: I freak you out.
John: Remember our conversation… you said something… in Riley’s voice… Yeah, that kinda would fit the definition.
Cameron [looking away]: I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have. I should know better. I freak everyone out. Even you…
John [getting really close to Cameron, and gently turning her face to his; softly]: And yet, you’ve said it twice now.
Cameron: It?
John: No more games. No more lies. I want the truth. You know what I’m talking about. [going about it a different way] Why did you think Riley was all wrong for me? {he heard more of Cameron’s conversation with Riley than Cameron thought]
Cameron is silent and staring at John. Then she speaks…
Cameron [pushing John's words to Riley back in his face]: Because today is the day?
John [pausing]: Today is the day.
Cameron: Why would you want to hear it now? You think I lie.
John: Because… I’m ready to listen.
Cameron {also pausing]: Riley didn’t love you. She only said she did. She was all wrong for you… she was not what you need.
John looks even deeper at Cameron.
John: And why would you say that?
Cameron: I love you. [strong emphasis on "I"]
John: But… you’re a machine.
Cameron [as if it was as plain as the nose on his face]: I’m different. And I love you, John Connor. [the look in her eyes is not empty, not like Catherine's... there is a bright spark... an awareness lit from within... and John sees it]
John: I believe you.
Cameron: Why now?
John [with a slight smile]: Ask me again sometime. [he gets up slowly, and changes the subject, and holds out a hand to help Cameron up off the cot] Wanna help me sort my baseball cards?
Cameron [happier than she has ever been in her short life, accepts his helping hand, and walks over next to him]: Yes, but I still say Mickey Mantle is over rated. Babe Ruth had a candy bar named after him…
Snake I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who feels like that about Blu-ray.
See I’m one of those people who likes to take things apart and can usually figure out how to make things work.
Of course the price will come down.
I was talking to someone about technology and we were comparing the VCR vs. Beta system.
VCR won, and the price slowly came down. And might I add the first VCR I had was quality. Had it over 10 years never a problem. Now they break in less then a year.
VCR vs. DVD…DVD wins and the prices came down. What’s ironic the cheapest DVD players can usually play international DVD’s.
Same with HD vs. Blu ray. But I am interested to see how Blu-ray will take off in this type of economy but that is for a different discussion.
WOW that sounds amazing. And that really does plug into Cameron’s current actions and all the previous comments about being able to download a human brain into a chip (the Japanese guy said that).
If they would tie that into the show then that would be so cool.
Funny you should mention Beta Kea. That is where I learned my lesson. I bought the first Hi-Fi Beta available from Sony back in the day ( paid a fortune for it too.). Thier technology was superior but Sony screwed themselves on the licensing agreements. That screwed everyone else who threw in with them. That is why I wait a while until I see where the market is going first. I still sell old beta tapes to the pros in the industry. It’s still used by them because the bandwidth is so much better but commercially it’s a dead format.
I know Beta is dead commercially but I did not know that pros in the industry still use it. Learn something new everyday.
WOW Snake that’s amazing that your still using you old beta. See that was quality. Like I said my first VCR lasted well over 12 years. It just gave out one day. I miss it. It was expensive when it came out, and tapes weren’t cheap either but talk about quality. VCR’s now a days last less then a year. And tapes forget it. I’ve had more snap or chewed up on me then I care for. And its so hard to get just a VCR now a days.
I’m actually looking into the DVR recorders at the movement because I have to transfer a lot of my old tapes that are barley hanging in there.
Well look at the turn vinyl records has made. You go from these large records, to smaller ones, to tapes to Cds which in a way is a new form of vinyl.
It all goes back to its roots.
Yes I know this has nothing to do with TSCC but its just interesting to see the progression technology takes.
And since I feel I need to make a TSCC reference look at the progression of the terminators we have seen in the show. Rubber guy, the suicide chip, Vick the T888, Weaver, Cameron, JH. Its interesting to see.
Yeah, they’ve been experimenting with nerve and brain cells living on circuitry for a while now. I didn’t realized just how far they’ve come. Unreal.
—
Kea,
I don’t know what kind of budget you have, but here are a couple killer deals I found. I do home theaters as a side business, so I like to think that I’m up on a lot of the tech. stuff. Blu-ray has a more open region coding system, with some studios allowing region free playback without any hassles as they are all encoded the same way: 1080p (most movies and HDTV shows), 1080i or 720p (for stuff shot on HDCams) with the country’s player models converting as necessary. I have discs from the UK and Australia (that happen to have better audio specs. than the U.S. versions) that play just fine on my PS3. Japan is also now in the same region as the U.S.
An excellent Bonus-View enabled Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu-ray/DVD player (original MSRP of $600, now $284 with free shipping). Its decoded Blu-ray image quality is one of the best currently available in a reasonably priced unit. Firmware upgradeable. BD-Live Web capability is not needed and is over rated IMHO.
Just as an example, I got all three Rambo movies (don’t like the fourth one… too gory) on Blu-ray at Amazon for $10 each. I got a three-disc Wall*E Blu-ray set for $25.
Blu-ray, especially on-line, can be pretty darn competitive with DVD if you watch the sales.
—-
Samsung HL61A750, 61″ diagonal, 1080p DLP Rear Screen Projection, LED light source (no lamp), with 3-D image capabilities built-in (coming to video games and Blu-ray soon), and built in HDTV tuner for OTA broadcasts. $1,448 + free shipping. Also available in a 67″ diagonal set. Not a perfect TV and it has a few quirks, but very, very good as an amazing starter set at a terrific price.
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=SAMHL61A750
—-
Bluejeanscable.com (my first choice) and Monoprice.com (my second) have excellent, well made interconnect cables and speaker wire for A LOT less than Monster Cable. A LOT less.
Just wanted to show you that it’s not as expensive as you would first think.
Don’t know why I didn’t think of it before and I don’t recall reading any of the posts where someone mentioned it, but why is Cameron acting damaged? If the shrapnel took out one chip, doesn’t she have two more fully functional chips? Triple 8s only need one of their three chips to operate at full capacity and Cameron is supposedly an even more advanced model. Which leads to some more questions. Crowmartie is taken out with only one shot. Even if you could line up the shot to take out two chips, which it doesn’t look like Cameron did, wouldn’t you need to get at least one more shot to take out the third chip? And Derrick takes out another triple eight with only one shot. And when a triple eight is chasing Derrick, as I recall Cameron takes the terminator down and then they remove only one chip to deactivate him. Maybe the future has been changed since the beginning of the series and now triple 8s only have one chip? Can someone enlighten me?
And Dan, I usually think your imagined scenes between John and Cameron are a little sappy, but I actually liked your last post as believable–though probably in a lot different direction than you’re thinking. I’m recalling Vic’s Chip. The Terminator says all the right words, provides all the right moves and romance, and even buys his wife cruise tickets. But because the mission goals get met before the cruise date arrives, she never gets to use the tickets because with the mission accomplished, the terminator simply reaches over and breaks her neck.
As an infiltrator, Cameron appears to have been programmed with everything she needs to attract John’s attention as demonstrated in the very first episode of season one. That seems like the most likely possibility, but I guess another is that John of the future programmed her to be in love with him, which would perhaps explain why she vacillates and at times doesn’t follow Future John’s orders when confronted with Present John’s orders and pleas. However, as lonely as John of the future might be, he just doesn’t seem to be kinky enough to mess with her programming that way. I will grant you that Cameron is suppose to be special, but the writers have done precious little to show exactly what that is supposed to mean. I’m just saying that if you look at Catherine Weaver, it doesn’t appear that Skynet has invested any effort into creating artificial feelings even in it’s most advanced models. But hey, I just had one more thought. It would be like John Conner when he scrubbed Cameron to have turned off her read only mission parameters and restarted her active neural network. When that happened, she might have developed a flutter Get it, a flutter for John–ha ha. Okay, never mind. It’s late and I’m going to bed.
PS – sNaKeBiTe, thanks for the Jameron explanation.
Thanks for not thinking this little tit for tat dialog was too sappy. I wouldn’t call myself a writer… I just dabble with whatever comes off the top of my head at the moment it hits me. I guess that’s the same as blogging. Rough drafts put out for all to see.
At least we’re not “Twittering.” That just seems… sorry… dumb and pointless (did I mention I’m ooooooold!). Leven and Hadley, don’t hunt me down and kill me, please!!! LOL!
As for Cameron… at least in James Cameron’s head… Terminators CAN evolve and can value, especially when their chips are switched over from read-only mode. Skynet evolved. As Mr. Cameron said: tin-men can find their hearts. Their neural-net brains are based off… our human brains.
Love is valuing someone greatly…. sometimes above and beyond yourself. Arnold valued John and respected Sarah.
As for physical love… Cameron was moved when they held hands. Contact comfort. All advanced life forms need that for proper development. They are left alone without it and they go crazy for want of affection. Animal (and we humans are animals too) behavioral studies have shown it to be true.
What did Andy Goode say? Skynet was looking for something he didn’t know how to give it, and it became angry and scared and confused… it went mad. I say it was love and comfort that it was looking for and reassurance.
And Snake and Kea,
I remember Betamax fondly before I got my first VHS Hi-Fi machine with saved up paper route money (and then laserdisc players for widescreen movies like Star Wars! I still have my two LD players). If those old Beta machines would stop working… they worked great as massive door stops!!
Sorry guys, Cameron is a machine - it can only be “love.” Part of what love is are physiological responses that Cameron can’t possibly have. Another part are plans for the future that Cameron can’t possibly make. John and Cameron are the star-crossed lovers to end all star-crossed lovers! For some definition of “love” that is.
Spook! The captcha for this comment was “Steel growth”… maybe Skynet is watching!!
Not a bad stretch of imagination Dan, quite entertaining. Couldn’t John tell her that he loves her back instead of being a self-satisfied prat who ‘allows’ her to take part into HIS stuff.
I like Snake idea that a significant part of Allison’s brain lives in Cameron. Imagine this now: Cam turns really bad toward the end to the season and there’s no choice but to trigger the kill switch (by either JC or Sarah, both alternatives have huge development potential). I think my heart just broke while writing that. Now Cam placed a small amount of explosive near her chip (inside the seal would do) that should be enough to destroy it… but not destroy Allison! Some time passes as the Connors can’t burn Cam’s body immediately, reboot and in Cameron there’s only Allison left.
@Lee:
That the T-888 do have two more back up CPUs was only stated in the “Sarah Connor Chronicles: Behind the Scenes featurette”, which was done around the Pilot. They may have screwed this idea later, because it didn’t fit so well storywise. And you have to consider, that Cameron is NOT a T-888, she’s a different, yet unknown model.
About the new episode, it was “okay”. I didn’t like Cameron’s reactions, especially the phone call, she should have been more careful and not twist the knife in John’s wound caused by Riley’s death. It felt like, she was begging John to push the detonator button(s) and not like a good way to show her “feelings” for him. I was like “omfg, don’t do that, girl!!” About the rest, the pace felt pretty slow again, too much meaningless dialogues going on, but I’ll better wait for the second part to get the full picture. But Jesse pushing her bedside lamp again wasn’t exactly a mind blowing cliffhanger of the sorts.
But I have no illusions here, this show is not a LOST, which absolutely blows your mind away every single week (it really does, the 5th season is just unbelievable epic, I’m totally stunned after every new episode, you people should watch this stuff). Still Terminator SCC is one of my favorite shows and I really want it to go into a 3rd season, even if its just because I need my weekly dosis of Summer Glau’s awesomeness and her character Cameron is the best character in televison/movie since River Tam. ;D So, I put my hope in the final 4 episodes, preview for next week definitely looks very promising.
The discussion of VHS/Beta reminds me of one of my favourite scenes from S1, where Cameron is walking through the room full of “primitive” artificial intelligence, and both she and the facial-recognition computer recognize one another at the same time, but at completely different levels.
Cameron is 3-D laser scanned bio-chemical optical storage media by comparison to VHS and Betamax. And yes, that optical disc media is in development! It may be the next thing after Blu-ray.
And John Pate… this is science fiction, after all, so if James Cameron can let Terminators love and hate and have other growing emotions… then I’d say she loves John. I know, I know JF is not Mr. Cameron, but I’d like to think that Josh took the originator of the Terminator characters’ ideas to “heart.”
@Dan H - no, one of the great things about TSCC is that the writers do seem to have put quite a bit of thought into how different machine intelligence would be to the human thing and just what effect a machine intelligence simulating a human might have on the human observers.
You guys are letting the fact that Summer Glau is the beyond awesome babe of a mans wildest dreams (yeah, I really like Summer) cloud your judgment - which, indeed, is something that affects the John Connor / Cameron dynamic.
Think back to the ending of “Self Made Man” when Cameron came to the door with her donuts but it was a new girl. The way she seamlessly switched on the charm for her “new friend” cleared up any doubts I had that Cameron was connecting on some kind of emotional level with her lonely disabled “friend.” It was genius. It was a Terminator and its mission. (Summer played that whole ep awesomely, I can’t imagine who else could have made it work a fraction as well.) See also, “Vick’s Chip.”
Even if Cameron, a machine, can love - for some new and improved definition of love - it won’t be remotely like what Alison Young would experience because Cameron only has the appearance of being human, not the substance. It’s a matter of fact - Cameron cannot love, Cameron is metal. Cameron told John, “I can’t be happy, I’m a machine.” Cameron has sensations but not feelings.
These issues have been mentioned WRT to John Henry - about the embodiment of consciousness, it’s why Weaver used Cromartie’s body.
Also, riddle me this grasshopper: Cameron’s chip can be placed in different bodies or even computer systems (remember the traffic light controls) - will John still love her then? Cameron’s body can get another chip - will John still love her then? Cameron’s chip can be wiped and reset - will John still love her then?
Cameron is a machine. Haven’t you guys been paying attention? Summer has portrayed that so brilliantly, right down to the walk!
The only thing that makes sense is that when Cameron tells John she loves him it is solely to further her mission… whatever that actually is…
Cameron said as much this episode, that telling John “she” loved him in Riley’s voice made his reaction all the better and furthered the mission.
Now, for sure, since Cameron lies to everyone all the time as it suits the mission nothing “she” says can be believed unless it is corroborated by other sources of information - so, in fact, there’s no point in John even talking with “her” except when Cameron has specific items of information, such as locations and times or somesuch. It would be nice, IMHO, to see John starting to take that attitude with Cameron as a sign he is catching on to the nature of the beast. As John groks what a Terminator really is he should become more distant with Cameron, not less, and Cameron might well try amping up the charm with him. Or, even better, they might have an honest conversation laying it all out and where Cameron says she can be a programmable sex-toy… yeah, OK, I know, family viewing…
I think John is (or rather should be or become) smart enough to understand that . Maybe he sent Cameron, the beautiful young girl he knew his younger self would fall for, back in time to make that very point evident to his future self - in a suitably time travel paradoxical flow of information.
Skynet and Terminators are the machine, the very antithesis of human - that is the classic science fiction trope underlying the original Terminator film. There is some suggestion they are going to meld the human and the machine in “Terminator 4″ to make something else - and that opens a whole new can of worms. I don’t see any evidence having been laid in TSCC that Cameron is that kind of tech - and, in any case, I would argue that a human brain in a robot body is a machine not a human being because the brain isn’t really separate from the body - but that would take a course of lectures to explain!
Hy guyz,
i have this thought in my head and wanna tell to you:
by Wikipedia, John Connor was Born on 28th february 1985…
Ok, in TSCC he jumped from 1997 to 2007…i think it’s correct…
But future’s John didn’t jump ! So, John who sent Cameron back to the past is…mumble… 42 years old ! In 2027 he’s 42 years old. Right?
So, what’s the problem, you will say…
The problem is this : how old Allison is? 20? 25?
Ok…so..i’m just thinking about this: in TSCC Terminator 3 has never happened…no wife for John, no family.
This is what Cameron talks about when she says that future’s john is completely alone.
So, what is Cameron for future John? A …lover ?!? I don’t think so. It would be very pathetic! Also if it could be an interesting “end” (a man who had life destroyed by machines but he fall in love with one of them…)
She’s like a…daughter? A little sister? Maybe Allison Knew john, maybe she was his girlfriend, but it seems really absurd to me !
i would like next episodes talk more about this!
Am i forgwtting anythink about this? Please help me out !!
At least Franz is getting it, so it’s not been totally lost on everybody.
The real question is: what is in the box that, so far as it seems to us now, made Jesse so convinced that the future John Connor’s (unspecified as to the nature of) close relationship with the future Cameron such a transcendental threat that Jesse must move through time, and sacrifice Riley, to save John Connor from that future relationship?
Does what (future) John believes about what is in the box versus what Jesse sees / believes is in the box give them some plausible reasons for different takes on the matter, such that we may have to take sides?
Will Derek side with Jesse or John when the box is revealed? Does Cameron actually know anything about the box and its contents, either now or in the future?
Whatever is in the box has got to be totally awesome (or, more correctly, the ramifications of what are in the box) - and will surely determine whether TSCC deserves an S3 in the fan’s eyes, quite apart from the general viewing public.
Everything you say is right and logic leads from those facts to your conclusions. Yet your conclusions are wrong, simply because you are leaving important facts out.
In ‘Self Made Man’ it was awful strategy from Cam to let her friend know that his cancer had returned: convincing him to get new treatments meant losing a valuable contact with no assurance of replacing him. This was bad for the mission and yet she willingly chose this option.
In ‘Allison from Palmdale’, as long as the personality of Allison was predominant, Cam actually did feel all the emotions and the confusion that she expressed. There was no purpose to her cries but to express her feelings.
I believe that Cam is also Allison and so that she is much more than a simple machine, although she is that, that’s for sure…
When Sarah burned those spare parts Cameron should have killed her. Sarah has gone from being a liability to directly threatening Cameron’s mission — whatever that mission might actually be.
Honestly, if Cameron doesn’t kill Sarah soon I’m gonna quit watching this show. Is Cameron a terminator or not?
“Alison from Palmdale” was Cameron malfunctioning - as a method of giving us the story of the original Alison Young. It doesn’t tell us about Cameron, damaged chip or not. (It’s a stretch to posit that a physically damaged chip will, in some ways, function in a more sophisticated manner than an intact one, don’t you think?)
I don’t buy your logic re “Self Made Man.” It makes just as much sense to assume that Eric having his cancer return unexpectedly could compromise Cameron’s access to the library and by having him restart his treatment early he could continue working there. Even be grateful to Cameron for saving his life. Cameron had invested time in befriending Eric and any replacement for Eric is an unknown quantity. If your logic were correct, and Cameron really cared about Eric, why hasn’t she followed up on him? No, the whole payoff of that episode was that Cameron’s behaviour was revealed to be her playing Eric to further her mission. In fact, the questions she asked Eric about him being broken were an attempt to give her more information about dealing with her damaged chip in such a way it would not impair the mission.
It’s true that “Alison From Palmdale” did raise questions about how Terminators (or anyway, the Cameron version of Terminators) are programmed. The scene in AFP where Cameron appeared to kill Alison looked like a scene where Cameron was verbally interrogating Alison for information. However, the other scenes in AFP implied that transference of actual memory, or at least, that some kind of very sophisticated model of Alison’s memories and personality, had been programmed into Cameron. It was not clear from AFP how that had been achieved and whether that involved some kind of actual physical interface between Alison’s brain and a chip.
This is an issue that could be re-visited by the writers and it isn’t unambiguous as to whether Cameron killed Alison or rendered her unconscious… prior to dissecting her brain perhaps?
Even if (some of) Alison’s brain tissue is in Cameron’s skull somewhere, does that make her Alison? I say no. If some kind of sophisticated model or simulation of Alison resides in Cameron somewhere (as implied by AFP), does that make her Alison? I say no.
Is simulated love (inside a machine) real? Well, there’s an argument to have - given philosophers, artists, and poets et al have been wrestling with the question, “What is love” for millennia.
I’d say a simulation, or a model, isn’t real - especially when you’re talking about love!
You’re a machine hater! Fie on you! Fie! A pox on your house! LOL!!
Somebody didn’t watch T1 and T2.
Cameron is sentient. She’s convinced that John loves her (even if there hasn’t been a moment where John came right out and said it to her face), but doesn’t know how to express it back yet in a manner that will get John to respond in kind. She does it in her unique way and that is not yet palatable to THIS John; it’s spooking him out. That’s why she says that John loves her too. She knows him more than he knows himself.
It’s making him question his ideas of what it means to be a machine.
You also ignore Sarah’s dialog in “The Demon Hand” on THIS particular show, not even the movies written by James Cameron himself. Sarah is talking about a machine who is like a human, and has crossed over and you can no longer tell where the human begins and the machine ends. They aren’t LIKE us, they ARE us.
I don’t think Allison’s brain is somewhere in Cameron…
maybe her thoughts and feelings.
It didn’t explain how them get into Cam’s head, i don’t think it’s only a simulation: how can you simulate something that you don’t know ?!? Or something that you don’t feel ? That you don’t have?
Are we sure that Cameron really kill Allison? I say this because , about Allison, we have only the 2nd season’s 4th amazing episode …nothing more !
I don’t know if Cameron is able to realize that she killed a girl and took her place.
What about this?
If she feels fear, feels angry about Allison’s memories, can she feel anything similar thinking about Allison’s death?
Does she feel this only when she have a malfunction? But she’s malfunctioning right now…she’s covering her feelings? Is she lying ?
Does John Connor know Allison? i think for sure.
What are his feelings about her? And are Cameron’s feelings Allison’s ones?
Remember…Cameron knows death. In Samson & Delilah she told Sarah about not letting John recover her from “switchin off” evermore.
She tried death and she was freaked out. In her way.
Does she know love? Not for now, i think.There is no “love” in her behaviour. Simply she is totally loyal to her mission (protecting John). And giving him “support” when he’s alone, in danger, angry or confused.
But this is not an automation: Cameron really understand john, she know him very well. The future John, i mean. This John is something that we too really don’t know yet.
“Love” could be the happy ending for this saga: a machine that understand what love means to humans.
So she would understand what are human behaviours causes and nature.
Probably, she would understand that there’s no place for her in human society.
But something’s happening. She started not following programmation, and expressing her thoughts.
This makes her weird in confront of others ( a thinking Terminator…how useful !).
But, as you suggest..some answers are in the box…under the sea…next friday !
Liquid Metal? Mmmhh…i don’t know ! But Is Jesse talking to Cameron or Allison in the promo’s end of 2nd part ?! What do you think?
in the end…I think that Uncle Derek won’t take the right decision for now.
Bone cancer is no small illness. It put Eric in his wheelchair and add to that that he was to go on chemotherapy with all its side effects: there was no way that he could keep working under those conditions.
I never contended that the damaged chip functioned in any better way than the undamaged one… I do say though that it is plausible that the damage allowed the Allison side of Cam to express itself. It doesn’t matter, but for the techies, how Allison’s personnality got into Cam but there is no doubt that it overtook Cam for a time: it’s there and it is much more than a memory, en engram or some imprint since it is able to behave autonomously and in a coherent manner, to respond and adapt to new circumstances.
Cam has expressed surprise, pain, sorrow, futility, curiosity for many things unrelated to the mission. She has acted quirky, she had herself aborted her mission to kill John in S&D. You know that I could go on and on with examples: there’s a lot that can’t be explained by the behavior we expect from a machine.
Anyway, all this is just fun speculation. This way maybe we won’t die from the long wait between episodes and lower the ratings even more.
The how did Allison or her personality get into Cam is irrelevant. I found the idea of living tissue on circuits appealing because it has potential to evolve in unexpected manners, as humans do.
I am pretty sure that Allison was killed by Cam: she made an awful ‘crack’ noise and quite a thud. Yet, those resistance people are very resilient.
As to what Cam feels: even if I conceede that all there is of Allison in Cameron is memories, AFP prooved that those are perfect, complete memories of what a human being feels, not just a bag of tricks to fake it. One day or another Cam will be able to recall them at will and integrate them to her personality. They will make her more human although she never will be one.
Derek will take some convincing but he’ll get there. Too many people here or in the forums equates the Derek/Jesse relation to mere sex but there is a lot of love there, war time love but love nonetheless. Anyone who has been in a bad relationship knows that, no matter how clever, courageous or autonomous one is, seeing clearly is the hardest thing to do.
I really enjoy watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Most of the shows have had a good story and keep you wanting more. I like all the characters on the show but I am especially interested Summer Glau’s character, Cameron. I can’t help but notice the hints that John (Thomas Dekker) might physically attracted to Cameron. What teenage boy wouldn’t be? After Riley got killed she seems to be the only girl in town. I wonder if any of the future shows will explore this. There seems to be a mystery when it comes to Cameron. Is she more then she seems to be? Can she really feel anything? Is she capable of love? I was looking for a place on this website to show what a big fan I am of Summer Glau. You’re so Cute! I hope your show gets another season and isn’t cancelled.
Did anyone else catch that really cool ‘So FOX’ commercial during House tonight? It had all these actors from FOX shows laughing. TSCC has 4 actors of its actors appear in it.
What’s interesting it started out with TSCC’s LH walking, you can see her tattoo on her arm.
It shows SM at a photo shoot.
You have TD and LH. At a photo shot. He has his arms around her and a gun.
And of course TD and SG just laughing.
It was nice. Went by way to fast but nice.
John Pate I have to disagree. This is sci-fi…anything can happen…and that’s what I want to see on this show a cyborg in love with a human and vice versa.
Its different, its being handled very well by the show so far…and why not go for it. I personally think it makes the show stand out. If there was nothing between John or Cameron I might not be watching. It actually keeps me glued to the TV set…among other things.
And while were at it why do you assume anyone who is a Cameron fan or a Jameron fan is a guy?!?!
You are well aware that women also watch this show right?!? Female over here. I love seeing strong female characters on shows (Yes Girl power)…and lets face it you have two actors that have great chemistry with each other why would I not want to see that progress?
I think it makes the show more human and blurs the lines that people are fighting for in the future.
So Rock on John and Cameron!!!
Pete I’m pretty sure Cameron has spare parts hidden in others places. She does not seem to be the type to ‘put all her eggs in one basket‘.
LOL thanks for the help Dan. Interesting that Blu-ray has a more open region coding systems. I’m actually looking more into the European ones. IE I want movies from Europe I can’t get in the US. Specifically Germany.
My budget at the moment for technology …ummm it starts with a Z and ends with an O!!! Sadly!
Criterion is coming out with an aggressive slate of foreign and classic films on Blu-ray too. Most of their discs that I’ve bought so far have been excellent. Obviously, it all depends on the film source and the condition it’s still in. They do as good a digital clean up as possible and use LOSSLESS audio at all times. Their extras are usually very good and very extensive.
I have The Lives of Others (won the Oscar last year for Best Foreign Language Film from Germany) and Kung Fu Hustle (a wild and wacky comedy wire-fu film from Stephen Chow) on Blu-ray (both from Sony) and they’re pretty good quality (since the source interpositives are in decent shape). The films themselves are excellent. KFH has a very aggressive Chinese 5.1 surround mix and it reminds me of Looney Tunes meets The Matrix meets dance movies. In fact, the fight scenes are by the same choreographer.
I can’t wait for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon on Blu-ray. It should be phenomenal.
Speaking of Foreign films and the Criterion collection and Blu-ray…
If you are a lover of film like I am, you MUST do yourself a favor and grab a copy or rent a copy of “Chungking Express.”
It’s a beautiful, lyrical, and uplifting Hong Kong movie from the early 90’s. Very Western in its style and approach, but with that mystical and authentic Oriental flavor.
The Blu-ray version has a DTS-Master Audio 5.1, 24 bit sound remix. It’s subdued since it’s very dialog heavy, but still effective and creative in its use of the 6 channels of audio.
Agreed Kea, one of the joys of Sci-fi is that anything is possible as long as it’s plausible. The writers have done an excellent job of making a relationship plausible.
Summer has done a masterful job in keeping just enough spark there to keep us guessing.
You have to figure she loves him since she gave him her remote. Nothing says I love you like giving up the remote.
RE: Snake I love sci-fi. Huge STTNG fan, Birds of Prey, Cleopatra 2525, Moonlight, Firefly, TSCC just to name a few.
The writers have done a fantastic job with the Jameron relationship. As you said their relationship is plausible and I love it. It all falls back on the writing as well as the chemistry that is there.
I agree Summer has done an amazing job. Her characterization of Cameron was why I watched the second ep actually and got hooked from there.
I actually have to thank TSCC for leading me to Firefly. Had it not been for TSCC and all the message boards comments about River Tam…I might never have discovered Firefly. So thank you TSCC.
“You have to figure she loves him since she gave him her remote. Nothing says I love you like giving up the remote.-Snake”
LOL you guys and your remote.
I never thought about the kill switch as being a remote. Good point. Giving him the remote now that is true love. LOL!!!
Hey Dan any DVR recorder advice? Just thought I’d ask. Perhaps you better put it on wiki…I would hate to spam the blog.
I agree, giving John the remote was very powerful and interesting, especially if Cameron really planted a charge in her head–or was this just another lie? In all the episodes where they remove the chip, the chip is attached to the socket cover and comes out when the cover is removed causing instant deactivation. Cameron couldn’t have planted the charge without help. Although I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be glad to help her yank her chip, I’m pretty sure John is the only person her programming allows to remove the chip. Since he didn’t help her, she didn’t plant a charge, unless someone can show where another access point exists. Cameron is an armored tank and there is nothing I’ve seen that indicates there is another access point to the cranium. Cromartie demonstrated that a terminator can function quite nicely with the head and body detached, but it still appears that the only access to the chip is through the chip port.
Same here Kea, I never heard of Firefly before I started reading the blog here. A few weeks ago I came down with a cold and I spent the weekend watching every episode of Firefly and then went out and picked up a copy of Serenity at the vid store.
It’s not my favorite Sci-fi in the verse but it’s definitely a strong entry.
As far as the remote goes Cam really didn’t have to go the explosives route. JC probably would have been happy with a mute button.lol (sorry, couldn’t resist a little chauvinist humor)
Remember tho guys - the title of the show is, “The Sarah Connor Chronicles.” Fascinating tho Cameron is, the show is about humans and their reaction to unstoppable killing machines exterminating humanity, and Sarah’s journey in particular. Unless the ratings pick up in an entirely unexpected fashion, we’re unlikely to see S3, let alone a spin off series!
I personally think it will be a mistake if the writers make it turn out that Cameron - yes, an automaton, exactly the correct word - loves JC in some meaningful way. Obviously, humans can form all sorts of pathological attachments to inappropriate things - that’s humans malfunctioning! But a machine can’t love because it doesn’t have feelings and emotions which are part of our biology and not abstracts that run as algorithms in a finite state machine.
Cameron is a simulacrum of life - a Golem (I wonder if the writers will run with that mythology).
I know Summer Glau is the shiniest babe ever but I think that’s stopped you guys thinking this thing thru properly!
i think , like you do, that Allison’s memories will have important effects about Cameron’s personality.
The question is that Cameron’s chip is not a reading-only, but it could elaborate feelings and thoughts. I talk about her chip as i talk about a human’s brain, because, in facts, chip is Cameron’s brain.
And here there’s an important point of this show: we started referring to Cameron as a “killer computer”…but we’re understanding that she’s a computer with a thinkin chip. A chip that learns an understands. Here is the point of the question. I think she’s going to self -determination.
About Samson and Delilah, i don’t know what kind of love Cam was talking about when John switched off her chip. Maybe in the end she realizes that too…
Also it seems obvious to me that in the end of 2nd season, something important is gonna happen about Cameron personality…
Jesse / Derek story is a love and war story, with hard struggle for survive. They will never be happy until machines will be defeated, they will be always hunted. And that’s terrible.
i don’t think anything else, but in this case i think that “love” will be an hard problem for Derek to solve about Riley’s story. He will find that his girlfriend killed Rileys, and this is not forgettable by John i think…
And we don’t know what jesse is thinking about present John, What if she try to kill him? She’s acting exactly like a machine…killing people for her purposes.
Will be able Derek’s love to put her back?
I am not a Jameron and never will be. I’d hate a relationship with Cameron myself: she is cold as ice, she has been, until lately, a cold blooded murderer, her blank face bears no more attraction for me than any statue, her gait is ridiculous…
This said, T:SCC is a sci-fi show and as such it has to go beyond the common conclusions allowed by the present state of science. It is invented reality. Why would it be so important for Cameron to be a pure machine?
In all logic, the fight with the machines can’t be won. There always will be someone building something that’ll evolve into some version of Skynet. That is natural evolution of life on Earth (in the mythological context of Terminator: I personally doubt that silicon or another technology is going to replicate the human reality ever). The continued war leads to disaster for all that is human as we’ve seen over and over. The solution can only be co-existence.
A sci-fi show is a metaphor. Although it may seem rationally based it has a part of fantasy, rationalized fantasy. John, you have strong reasoning skills but they don’t apply here I think.
@Innocent. At its heart, surely the “Chronicles” is about the trials and tribulations of the human spirit. About the difference between the human and the machine and how, in fighting the machine, you risk the loss of your humanity and may become the very thing you are fighting against.
The danger that Jesse sees, perhaps, is that John has/will forget/never learn this. The irony is that she becomes a ruthless killing machine trying to stop this happening.
This isn’t simply a trope from SF: this is the human spirit against fate, against the machinations of the implacable gods, against the uncaring mechanical workings of the Universe - and, yes, the search for true love. It is the oldest story.
IMHO, the freakiest Cameron moment so far, by far, was Derek watching Cameron dance - for herself - in “The Demon Hand,” after she’d been a calculating, remorseless, killing machine throughout the whole episode.
Cameron is ageless and potentially immortal. If Cameron can dream then those dreams are not humanity’s dreams and humanity has no place in them.
I think you are looking at this from the wrong side. It isn’t so much about what Cameron feels as it is about what JC needs. Remember the movie Cast Away. Tom Hanks created a complete persona for a soccer ball in order to combat the unbearable solitude. We know JC will suffer from that same condition. Here he has a walking, talking, thinking companion that he can trick his mind into believing to be real. And, in many ways she is. Without anything else to hold on to JC may have wanted to cultivate this relationship earlier in his life for any number of reasons and so he sent Cameron back to create the bond at a younger age.
It may not be exactly what he wants but it allows him to survive the torment of life alone.
Did anyone notice, the guy and his buddies that Jessi got into a fight with at the bar is her crew on the sub, even the terminator??? Did these people come back in time and are working with Jessi? What does this mean???? Sounds huge!!!!!
@snake, ahead of you - see my previous comment, timecode March 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pm, re speculation on the issue as to why future John sent Cameron back.
I guess I misunderstood you John. I thought you meant he sent her back to immunize himself from her charms rather than use her as a surrogate for human companionship.
@snake it’s both I think. It seems from things Cameron (and Jesse) have said that Cameron and future John are very close. I was postulating a somewhat more interesting reason for John to send Cameron back than simply that he wanted a beautiful robot sex toy. My reason doesn’t negate that one at all.
It would seem that there isn’t a Riley in the timeline Cameron (and probably Derek) are from, if there were Cameron would have known about her unless we assume Cameron never finds out that Riley that was working with Jesse. (And it makes sense that Jesse’s plan to change the timeline involved something that didn’t happen, if you see what I mean.) Except that it raises the question - just how different a timeline? Does Jesse’s mission actually make sense in this timeline, even given how the other timeline had played out? I’m thinking Jesse will be revealed to have some important information about keeping the timelines straight that means the inter-timeline narratives are consequential. Otherwise things are simply happening at random. Or, if that’s not the case, then Jesse needs to realise her future quite likely has no relevance to her current timeline and her actions will have unpredictable effects given the outcomes she’s seen are not necessarily causally related to anything at all in the timeline she’s now in. So, at least we would get somebody (maybe Cameron ironically enough) saying to her, “You murdered Riley for no reason, your whole plan was stupid, misguided, and irrelevant, if only you’d thought things through.” That would be neat. It would also be a neat reason why Cameron is reticent about revealing the future. She’s not actually being coy, or hiding secrets of her own, it’s simply that she knows it’s largely pointless or even possibly counter-productive.
And maybe it opens up even more possibilities of what might be in the box.
I thought the scene in the morgue was emotional. He told Cameron she couldn’t come with. He didn’t go there to autopsy the body or something, he went there to say goodbye to the woman he loves, it’s not like he could go to the funeral or the viewing. The clues he noticed on the body were incidental. That said, I think he’ll either accuse Derek of the murder or he’ll use that evidence to try to convince Derek that metal didn’t do it.
In Allison From Palmdale, I don’t think Cameron really thought she was Allison, I think she was, in a glitchy way, reverting to her original programming, that should have been scrubbed (maybe it was a backup,) to infiltrate the resistance as Allison. In the first episode of the season, I think she rebooted in safe mode and didn’t have access to her ‘protect John, etc’ over ride programming. I think it’s possible John will have to do something to her at the end of the season and if there is a third, he’ll be learning to reprogram cyborgs then, he has to learn that sometime. One thing I wondered was, did he send Cameron back so he’ll recognize Allison when he meets her?
Glad to hear I’m not the only one who discovered Firefly thanks to TSCC. LOL Snake. All of you are staying away from my remote control! LOL!!!!
John Pate I just have to ask but why are you placing all the ladies into the ‘you guys’ label?!?!
And trust me we have thought about it a lot, and that’s what’s so intriguing about this show. The bond between a human and a machine. That’s why I love sci-fi…anything can happen.
And yes I know the show is titled Sarah Connor chronicles…
But to me the more interesting aspect is how can they work with machines to stop JD day from happening. Or get a truce going between some machines and humans if you will. It’s a great concept and again it is a sci-fi show. Go for the Jameron love.
You know… I was just thinking about the speculation around Weaver’s arc. If her plans with John Henry are not aligned with Skynet’s best interests in the future, then why did Cromartie, who was decidedly anti-Connor, purposefully spare Ellison’s life?
This is still a great episode. Overall it seems like it was well received here. I thought Cameron’s call to JC was pretty darn creepy - one of the more creepy points of the series in my eyes. I also really liked the sub scenes and how the sub capt seems to easily work with the crew. Although the crew may not too easily work with the capt. I found it pretty interesting to learn about the ‘Kraken’ and that the machines have areas of controll in the oceans. It also sounded like there are areas that the resistance still controlls and has as safe zones. To me, this indicates a much much larger overall war. It takes so much to wage a battle on all fronts and in all fields (water, air, land etc.) that both the machines and resistance much be much larger than I had previously thought or than what we have been shown to this point.
I wonder how the machines fair in the artic - can they handle the weather when it is more than 40 or 50 deg below zero? Haha, I just really like to learning more about the future and the battles that are being waged.
@John Pate: How do you get a picture to show up on your posts here?
@Kea, don’t be offended, “you guys” can be gender non-specific nowadays - and anyhoo, how can I be sure you’re not a robot come back from the future to kill me? Whatever, you’re just figments of the intarw3bz anyway… which segues neatly into the pictures for comments - I assume it is because of this: http://gravatar.com/
BTW, we still need to find out what happened to Derek when he was taken down to the basement where the piano music was playing…
@ John Pate LOL not offended at all. I had a feeling you were using the term lightly but with the internet its sometimes hard to tell. All is forgiven and I will call off the terminators.
Now lets all build a time machine and jump to Friday…I want to know how part 2 ends!!!
Dennis “Cutty” Wise from the Wire!!! I wish he could have been in the show earlier!
Great episode tonight! i loved the analysis by Cameron that everyone is a threat to John, especially Sarah. The phone scene with “Riley” was uber-creepy.
I think this was one of my favorite episode this season.
Like the nod to Terminator 1, with a Termie impersonating someone. In t1 Arnold did Sara’s mom “at the cabin”. Now we have Cameron doing Riley. Both Terminators pretending to be a loved one of a Connor. Did Cameron see love between John and Riley. I think so…..
We MISS YOU RILEY !!!!
I agree a definite fav. that blew my initial expectations “out of the water” so to speak. My favorite parts where when you saw John taking a stand and actually investigating before he got hysterical and press Cameron’s kill button. Definitely starting to see a leader in him.
It was fairly decent and tense. But the whole Jesse thing was stretched out too far. Here it is, four more episodes left, and we’ll finally find out why Jesse does what she does (next week).
Jesse is now excess baggage, I’m hoping for a payoff next Friday where John tracks her down. There’s just too many subplots to deal with (pun not intended).
I’m not going to be able to make it through the week…
I need to know what was in that box!
AMAZING episode!
I really liked the future scenes! I’ve been waiting to see what Jessie’s real deal is ever since she came on the show. Like why she hates Cameron so much.. damn I can’t wait to find out the rest of the story next week!
I’m glad to see John sticking up for Cameron, its about time he treated her better. I really felt bad that everyone blamed Cameron for Riley’s death right away, no questions asked. I mean, I understand she’s a machine but cut her some slack.. She’s willing to risk her life on a daily basis for John, they could at least find some evidence to prove that she did kill her before jumping to conclusions.. or thinking about taking her out like Sarah did.
John was very smart- going to find Riley’s body.. seeing the bruises and the scratches- that proves right there Cameron didn’t kill her.
I loved the John Henry scenes! Its kinda creepy though how he has control of that whole place.. being able to open doors and control elevators. Ellison better start teaching him more morals and rules.. otherwise, John Henry’s going to become a big problem and will be impossible to control.
The scene when Cameron called using Riley’s voice was really interesting.. Does anyone else think there was more to it then just getting a reaction out of John.. idk maybe I’m just reading into things to much xD
The convo between Sarah and Cameron has me thinking too.. “There’s only one way for him to be safe.. its to be alone.” Ive got a gut feeling that John will end up alone at the end of the season.. The Dekker Tapes are starting to make sense..
Well that about sums up my review.
Thank you for one AWESOME episode! Can’t wait till next week!
I’m off to re-watch the episode again on my DVR
Not as strong as last week’s installment, not as “everything-clicks-the-right-way” perfect, but quite good nonetheless.
Don’t misunderstand me, I liked it a lot and it certainly kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole episode, more so with it being a two-parter and the 43 mins. endline coming up fast with no closing for… well, nothing, mostly. But that’s just the two-parter nature, I guess, this being mostly preparation for what’s coming next week in the 2nd part. I just missed some of that upcoming payoff.
Nice episode with multiple plot threads moving together without slowing each other up.
Don’t notice the time going by………
Sarah and Cameron’s talk over the thermite fire was telling……..First Sarah admitting that she couldn’t get rid of Cameron without hurting John and then understanding that all of them are endangering John in some way. Sarah didn’t like that, but I think she understood it… even the great Sarah Connor is a danger to John.
Poor John is going to be so lonely………
Great episode…I’m dying for next Friday to get here already!
The morgue scene seemed to focus on Riley’s finger wounds, but at the same time it was an emotional time for John, his goodbye time if you will. I don’t think it was clear from that scene if John saw the evidence needed to realize it wasn’t Cameron. I’m just curious how the writers are going to reveal the revelation of Jessie to John/Sarah/Derek.
From what I thought out the ONLY link is Sarah. If Sarah were to see Derek and Jessie together things would come together. It’s a really interesting dynamic, the fact that Derek knows Jessie but doesn’t know Riley. How Sarah knows Jessie, but doesn’t know that Derek knows Jessie.
One thing that puzzled me was when Derek was patching up Jessie’s hand wounds. Why couldn’t he notice that the hand wounds were fresher than the facial wounds? Why didn’t he think it was fishy that some military men retaliated and caused the facial wounds to Jessie in an open public bar?
It’s been nice seeing Derek finally ask Jessie some questions but unfortunately it doesn’t seem to get far because Jessie manipulates him sexually. I would love to see Derek redeem himself by putting the pieces together.
Oh! By the way.
I really did not need to know why Jesse hates metal so much, I preffered it would have been for many reasons, just because she has watched so many terrible things and suffered through so much in the future that she can’t trust them or like them, rather than having it all explained by some single, pivotal event in her life that turned her into the person she is now.
Any episode where we get to see Summer do that walk she so ingeniously have invented is a great episode, amarite? *awaits high-five* ehehe, ..right? anyone?
*tumbleweed*
Yeah, she’s awesome.
Enjoyed it. Liked each sub-story: Jesse, Weaver, Connors+Cam. Especially liked the submarine Captain termie (Quinn?) and the handing over of the box scene in the oil rig. What’s in the box?
Good stuff
I loved the opening scene with Cam and the bird, priceless.
For fans, a great show a fun episode.
For non-fans, for building new fans, the episode was once again complete…crap.
Although the party is over.
To the directors, writers, producers, we already knew Dekker could act, show emotion and the same goes for Glau, Jackcobsen, Headey, Jones, Green and Dillahunt and all the rest. Can they do action!
Should have had some action to write home about, ITS TERMINATOR!!
Should have had some action to tell my friends about, should have had more then a sulking Jackcobsen ending.
Yeah fan boy I know it continues. So next week she moves the lamp again. Johnny boy sulks some more.
Ellison proves how he is one of the worst detectives ever, Jackcobsen moves the lamp again, johnny boy sulks…
Just a fan who wanted a season 3, but hey its Friday night …no work tomorrow
Eh… I love the show but I was expecting a bit more from a two-parter. This series needs to end with a bang!
Zack and Ashley, you’ve done it again
Does the word “awesome” work?
I liked this ep more then I thought I would. I thought OA (ep 17 was better) but this ep had a lot going for it. I hate to be continued eps!!!
And wasn’t that one actor on Birds of Prey? Hmm
Jesse’s back story with the sub is interesting. And I can’t wait to see Jesse and Cameron in the future next week!!! I’m guessing the mission goes bad, it was Cameron’s idea and Jesse blames her. Can I just say that when I saw the little box my first thought….a mini River Tam!!!! LOL!!!
Loved Cameron in this one. You just felt for her.
The bird talk was so cute. And Cameron felt so emotional again. I like seeing Cameron use her skills (the voice and the hearing). And I loved the ‘I love you’ part. Loved that.
John and Cameron were wonderful together. And they looked guilty as heck!!!
I mean Jameron have such a wonderful chemistry with each other, its an absolute joy to watch!
I love that John stands up for Cameron.
How he lies for her. John knows Cameron didn’t kill r!!
I also like that we don’t hear Sarah tell John but that Cameron just comments she knows. That was well done.
Liked the Sarah and John talk as well as the Sarah and Cameron. I think it was important for Cameron to tell Sarah that John will be alone, expect with a machine aka Cameron!!!
I guess Jesse fights the guys in the bar to make it look like she got her injuries from there.
Kacy is back. I liked how her story tied into the plot.
Weaver, Ellison, Savannah and JH was interesting.
Maybe Cam should rethink her kill switch!
It was raining when Sarah and Cameron talk so I guess a storm is coming.
LOL did anyone else have a pancake commercial!! I thought of Jameron!!!
So Cameron gets into fights in the middle of the night? I mean we saw her fight the terminator a while back.
Why is there a spray painted R on the shed door? I saw that last ep and was meaning to ask?!?!
Trivia time: What does John eat for breakfast…Frosted Flakes. You can see a box behind Sarah!!!
Looking forward to next Friday…and a S3!!!!
Cameron said, “John, I love you,” because she does love him. The bridge from music, dancing and freedom of expression to love has been crossed, and now Cameron’s mission has become her obsession. To her, John is no longer an object to protect, but a possession to protect. No longer is it “business” for Cameron. Now it’s personal. Cameron Phillips is in love, and love knows no boundaries. Should be a wild ride from here on out.
Did I hear faint submarine noises in the background when John and Sarah were talking?
Wow we really need an edit button.
Anyway I kind of forgot to mention this but I like that the stepfather has on a fight cancer T-shirt. I thought that tied in so well into the story line with Sarah.
And it really linked the fight cancer commercial that was shown during my TSCC airing.
Nice touch.
The rubber skinned terminator in the oil rig:
Wasn’t he in season 1, in the first episode we meet Derek with the flashbacks? The episode where Derek and his comardes get taken to
the basement”?
Hey Corn flakes, your post was more sappy than watching how the desert gave a good sleepy wound to cantos.
Lets play a game, I’m thinking of a color, hint your nose.
Loved the multiple plots.
That’s what i’ve always loved!
bird scene with cameron… hilarious!
A very good episode and the best effort from Edward and Stentz since D&D in S1. Bouncing back and forth between now and the future seems to be their forte. Stick to that formula you two because it works for you.
I have to agree with everyone who liked the JH scenes. Very creepy. I find myself worrying about Savannah and thinking about what terrible fate Weaver (and the writers) might have in mind for her. Look for her to draw closer to Ellison and become the daughter he wished he might have had.
Clever Jesse getting into a fight so that when Derek sees her she has an excuse for being marked up. But note that Derek hasn’t asked why she didn’t wasn’t at the ambush.
Note that John saw the defensive wounds on Riley’s hands. If Cameron had killed Riley it would have been over so quickly that Riley wouldn’t have been able to put up a struggle. John knows that Cameron didn’t do it and once he sees that Sarah and Derek are clean he’ll know there’s someone else involved. When he braces Derek on the issue, Jesse’s days are numbered.
So what was in the box? Man-portable nuke? Nanobots? A backup copy of Skynet’s central core and programing? And why in the preview was Jesse talking to Cameron about what happened on the sub? This seems to imply that whatever happens on the sub it still makes it back to Serrano Point.
On an unrelated topic, it seems to me that when a series gets canceled, it takes some time for the DVD to come out. For example, Firefly on DVD wasn’t issued until recently. But just the opposite seems to happen for shows that will be continued and a DVD is released after a completed season and before the New Season as long as the show is running. Given that the S2 DVD is scheduled for release in August, can it be implied that S3 is good to go for WB regardless of what Fox decides? Remember if Fox doesn’t want the show WB can make a deal with someone else.
I guess Queeg went right over some heads.
Not as solid as last week’s episode, but it was… it was… good… not super spectacular but… good.
People have already expressed the solid parts. I just wish the Jesse thing hadn’t been dragged out so long and then dragged out even longer, so we have to wait yet another week for hopefully some real tension.
I just hope she gets one right between the eyes, but before she does she sees just how terrible she’s been (I can hope, but I don’t think that’s going to happen this way). Sorry, mates, but I don’t like Jesse and I don’t feel sorry for her even now. If you wanted me to, just like Riley, you failed.
And has Derek ever been a greater dope? He’s so quick to blame “the metal” that he doesn’t even investigate before he passes judgment. Hopefully, that’s what John Connor was doing: finding out that Cameron didn’t kill her. He sure didn’t look over the body very long… he should have had his emotional moment and then sucked it up and done an examination. The bullet wound, and other tells would have screamed A HUMAN DID IT!
And I sure don’t like where this is going: John Connor alone. Um, it again sounds cool and “manly,” but anyone who knows something about dangerous missions is that you need TEAMWORK, solid TEAMWORK. No one can do it alone, not something as big as this, and…
EVERYONE NEEDS A HELPING HAND.
The writers know that the John and Cameron interaction was a big hook, a big draw for the show (we’ve been talking about it all season long here and elsewhere), and yet they seem quite willing to shatter all that for a deeply depressing aura surrounding the show.
God help them if they think that will help Season 3, if there is one.
Queeg is the best name ever for a captain who, ideally, can never mutiny.
And “one ping only”? Someone needs to confiscate Mr. Stentz and Mr. Miller’s copies of The Hunt for Red October.
Loved this ep right up until it ended. I don’t want to wait a week to see how it ends *whine*.
It would be funny if in Part 2 there’s some sort of scene with Queeg that involves ball bearings.
Star,
Yeah, I caught it. Pretty clever. Think there’s strawberries in the box?
Starkiller,
I’ve read Moby Dick, I even referenced it, jokingly, in Leven’s farewell thread before the episode aired.
I’m kinda liking the Jessie back story. I always liked her more than Riley (who by the way had her best performance tonight). If you recall Riley was the one who initiated the lethal conflict between her and Jessie. At the point that Jessie shot her Riley was about to bash her skull in with that ivory tusk. Jessie had no choice.
Now we see that, at one point, Jessie was pro-metal. What is revealed next week should be quite interesting. It obviously is a spectacular incident to make such an impression on her.
As usual the very best of the episode was every moment that Summer was in the frame.
The weeks are getting longer.
Yeah czarfore, maybe he’ll scratch them.
Wow!! Just so many intense emotions in this episode! It was amazing!!
Everything’s about to turn out really nasty in that nuclear submarine. Wish I could get myself into some kind of suspended animation or something till next friday night. Just can’t wait!!!
Not to mention the increasing tension between Cameron and Sarah, Sarah and John, John and Cameron, Jesse and Derek, who I’d dare to say is starting to revert the manipulative game with Jesse, and Jesse dealing with her own demons.
And speaking of tension, the scenes with Savannah approaching to JH were just glorious, Ellison and Weaver playing JH’s twisted game and then the talk between Ellison and JH. Creepy.
On a final note, discovering that the phone-call was actually planned was really great, we’re starting to see a smarter John as the famous “Dekker tapes” announced
and Cameron’s unexpected variation of the plans were shocking. I was wondering how that famous second “I love you” would be, I thought that was a pretty dangerous move and you guys played your card fantastically, congrats! 
I certainly loved the way it remained [deliberately?] unclear. 
Also can’t wait to see how much Cameron words (about John being better alone) will affect Sarah’s future decisions.
Thank you so much for another wonderful episode!!!
Absolutely wonderful episode, every story thread was interesting. Loved the Sub story, damn I got excited when seeing the endos and the 600 series. There’s too little of that in your show heh
Can’t wait to find out what’s in the box!
JH was outright creepy controlling the building. Did he understand he did something wrong? He was confused… brilliant storyline.
And I really liked John this episode. I could feel his sadness about Riley. He wants to believe Cameron didn’t do it, but he understands the possibility. Poor Cameron… 51% chance i wouldn’t have killed you.
Keep it coming guys. this is one of the best shows I’ve seen in ages!
Now THAT was an episode. Kudos to all.
I sincerely hope that the rest of the episodes weave the story lines as well as this one did. Good mix of predictable/anticipate payoffs with zinger twists. I was especially pleased to see the kinder, gentler, happier Jessie. I was starting to wonder if her grating edginess was just a result of one dimensional acting. Now I see that she’s definitely working an arc for her character. Well played.
Loved this episode. Kudos to all involved.
Since others already mentioned all the other good parts of this episode, I’ll just mention the one part no one else did - Kacy. Love her. She usually has very few lines, but she always makes me laugh. “If I can breastfeed him til he’s five, maybe I can trick my body into letting me keep these boobs.” LOL. She’s so relaxed all the time and so not repressed.
Long day. Just the link this time, for now: http://cjcs.com/tib/2913/ttscc-0218-today-is-the-day-part-1/
Well… maybe a little.
I’m glad John figured it out. There was a little fake-out in the full shot in the morgue where it didn’t look like Riley was all that bruised (which had me yelling at the TV), that was rectified in the CU. No way Cameron killed that body.
Also, why all the endo hate? Not even for spare parts? If Sarah and John would just stop and think, it doesn’t seem like the existence of the endoskeleton makes any difference one way or another as to the creation of Skynet and its minions (though it’s good to not let the collected dead endos sit on blocks in the driveway and front lawn…it annoys the neighbors).
Thanks for giving us a nice memory of not-enormously-pregnant Busy.
Liked the episode. not as much as last week, but it was still good. hard to say until I see part 2. I’m kinda confused as to how John came to the conclusion though that it wasn’t Cameron. what do the finger tips have to do with anything? the main thing that took her life was the gun, no? who’s to say Cameron didn’t use a gun? one shot and some more injuries trying to defend herself would get Riley the same general results as far as I can tell.
I guess I’m just not as sharp as John. Could anyone explain it for me?
Kyle, there wouldn’t be a struggle if Cameron were to kill Riley. It would be quick. There are far too many bruises on her to say it was Cameron. Though we don’t know that he came to that conclusion because of her wounds (even though he seems to believe Cameron anyway).
As for the episode. Great episode and I can’t wait for part 2! I didn’t much like how Sarah talked to and treated Cameron, but I did understand why. She doesn’t much like Cameron’s relationship with John. She’s well aware of the attachment that John has to Cameron and that’s the only thing keeping Cam alive right now. I was glad that John believed her and stood up for her finally. I’m afraid of what will happen to her at the end of the season… I have a feeling I’m not going to like it.
I must know what’s in the box! And I must know what turned Jesse into hating Cameron!
im left kinnda disapointed at thi ep, srry guys
ok I thought it was a good ep for part 1 , it was compelling, it was over and I was surprised that much time had elapsed already !
I dont like jesse and I did not think I would like this ep , but was surprised.
now some speculation
1.liquid metal in the box ?
2.T’s who gave the box were not reprogrammed but anti skynet ?
3. if kill switch is used it will be sarah using it?
4. when sarah asked cam how bad she would feel, cam said “very bad” it wasnt
a joke ! she meant if sarah had tried that she would have hurt sarah
5. jesse’s lamps are explosives ? to take out john or cameron when they come.
6.john knows riley fought with a human and that derek is involved somehow.
8.weaver was showing emotions, excited and happy with JH
9 weaver and future john may have a connection.
10. jesse …. why she hates john and cam ? ……..no ideas there
11. shirley looked very good in this ep !
thats it, will watch this one again.
Very interesting build-up in this first part of two, although the stories between characters shifted nicely the pacing lacked acceleration towards a fitting cliffhanger. I felt that the story could reveal a little bit more to tease viewers better, but as usual I can’t wait until next week.
While not falling for all the classical storytelling mechanics, this episode gave a fleshed part of Jesse’s background story which I had waited for. It also had some satisfying dialogue stirring up the relations int the Connor houshold after Rileys death, and just a perfect reaction of Dekker when Sarah questions John’s judgement regarding Cameron. Heartbreaking reaction from John in its subtlety, proving not saying out loud what you are feeling actually says so much more.
The submarine scenes could have been better productionwise, but still a nice change settings from other futuristic scenes containing tunnels and the ruined LA citiscape. (One more thing, the guns props looks too fake in HD.)
I hope to see more of that Skynet sub in the next episode and any guesses what’s in the box?
I liked this episode. Not as much as last week’s, but it was still very good.
For me the highlight of the episode was when Sarah dropped the bomb about the “I love you” thing. John’s gasp right after that was just brilliant. He lost control over himself for just a second and then snaped back into his old role as the unapproachable John Connor who hides his feelings.
However, what really got me thinking was Cameron’s phonecall. I really can’t tell how much of that was an act and how much was the real Cameron, expressing herself.
One thing really annoyed me though: Why doesn’t Ellison put 1+1 together and see that there is something wrong with Weaver. I mean he is an ex-FBI agent. Well, it will probably all put together next Friday. I can’t wait!
too big of a cliffhanger!
I love that there is any terminator based show on TV, but planet are the writers from. I can’t believe the show is not well on it’s way to being canceled. This show is written like a general hospital daytime soap. THAT’S NOT WHAT PEOPLE WATCH THE TERMINATOR FOR!!!
James Cameron once said in an interview that everyone fantasizes about being the Terminator … walking into work one monday morning and throwing their boss out the window… This series has a terminator that uses terminator type fighting skills once every 6 episodes. What’s the use of even having her on the show. Maybe they should lock the writers in a room and make them watch the original movies, or maybe watch some 24 or something. They clearly do not know how to write an action adventure. UGH!! I hope the show is not on the fast track to being canceled.
was there a rubber skinned terminator in the oil rig scene
I thought it was great I was glued to my Tivo the whole time man I love this show
To CJ:
“I’m glad John figured it out. There was a little fake-out in the full shot in the morgue where it didn’t look like Riley was all that bruised (which had me yelling at the TV), that was rectified in the CU. No way Cameron killed that body.”
Well, I am no expert on these matters, so I may be wrong, but, as far as I know, if death happens soon enough right after getting beaten, there won’t be bruises, because there won’t be blood flow to make them appear. The body will exhibit the marks of the fight on the outside, lacerations where skin got torn and such, but no, there will be no black-and-blueish marks under the skin. Those you develop in time, well after receiving the hits.
So I guess it was ok for Riley’s corpse not to look “all that bruised”. You can stop yelling at your TV set now. ;-D
If the rest of the season is as good as these last two episodes then it is going to be a great ride to the end of the season.
I think the normal Terminator vs. Human fights go down with the Terminator grabbing the human by the neck and snapping it, very short and to the point. A Terminator doesn’t need to use a gun to kill a human that’s just a fact. What would Cameron have to gain by lying to John? If she said Riley was a threat that had to be removed so I killed her, John would be mad but would he hate Cameron for doing it? In Cameron’s mind would she “care” if John would be mad at her? She already said “they don’t always like the way I do things”. All this leads me to believe that John will ultimately believe Cameron and will eventually find out the truth.
Now it’s time to go watch the episode again!
Hoping for a season 3,
Ray
t5000, I was thinking the same thing about liquid metal in the box. Given that individual terminator units may be created by Skynet, but arethemselves autonomous and capable of re-evaluating their mission, it is certainly plausible that a faction of machines could become anti-skynet. I would not be surprised if the contents of that box were connected to Weaver’s arc, and future John–being the leader of both the resistance and the alliance–actually sent her back to develop a better alternative for machine evolution than skynet.
Jack, that would be an awesome tie-in.
Jack, that’s what I was thinking too. It’s too small to contain anything other than liquid metal.
I did like how Cameron professed her to John love yet again via Riley’s voice. Now she needs to learn how to say it herself with no beating around the bush or seeming like she’s acting. It would make John a lot less weirded out.
Not that it will probably happen now, but it would have been super funny if Cameron had asked Kasey some pointers on landing a man or male/female relationships in general… in a round about sort of way… not coming right out and saying IT’S JOHN (since it would blow her cover). The conversations they could have had!! Maybe Cameron would be just a little bit “oh my God, did she just say that??!!” as John did about Kasey and the “Rhythm Method.”
Maybe Kasey could have been just a little “goofy” in her response to Cameron’s inquiries by saying: “I sure hope you’re not talking about John!” or something like that. Ha ha.
We seriously need MORE humor, and it was nice that Busy was there to add a bit to the proceedings.
I thought the submarine scenes could have used a tad more finger nail biting tension. It seemed just a little subdued and the music, as usual, needs a major shot in the arm. It needs to feel more TERMINATOR-ish when necessary to help get the blood pumpin’.
And hopefully John noticed the skin under the fingernails of Riley to show it was a struggle between her and another human.
I also liked the Cameron and the bird. Somebody ought to get her a parrot or myna bird to take care of (after the glitch is rectified). The bird talks back!!
When are we ever going to see Cameron get to celebrate her “Built Day?”
John could get her a “tight present” of an intricately carved, wooden, animated music box with a lovely ballerina figurine dancing to a melodious tune.
It would go to show that he cares deeply (perhaps does love her too), he knows more than he’s let on, and has seen her dance as well (Cameron, you’re just not sneaky enough!), and is thinking about Cameron and her “differences” from other machines.
Cameron is greatly enamored with it as the dancer flits around on top of the music box, and is touched that John would think so much of her. Behind his gruffness is something more.
Something a bit more… tender.
Just a thought in passing.
Great episode! Finally, season 2 is starting to get really interesting. I can’t believe some of you don’t realize that John HAS figured it out, that Cameron did not kill Riley. Didn’t you see how he looked at Riley’s bruises on her fingers and hands? The look on his face showed, he knew immediately that Cameron didn’t kill her. Bottom line, Riley would have had no bruises on her, had Cameron killed her. I hope Jesse is exposed next week as the killer, and it will be interestin to see how John, Derrek, and Sarah decide to deal with her.
Mel,
I think he did too, but since he’s been such a maroon for so long this season… sometimes I wonder.
CJ:
They are paranoid about the endos because of all of the reverse engineering that Cyberdyne did when they got the remnants from the original endo in T1. If you’ll remember, T2 showed the Connors going after those remains at the Cyberdyne lab. They were very important to the rise of Skynet.
Loved it. =) Great the way you started it and ended it the same (the Jesse scene). And happy we get more Cameron in the future from the promo for next week =)
Once Jesse is discovered, Derek won’t leave the job to anyone else.
I liked the ep very much, in spite of the fact that two parters irritates the whole inferno out of me. I also share the impression that the time just flew by.
Didn’t you find it funny that the two teens thought that they had fooled mom? “What parts? There’s no parts!”.
What are your impressions of Cameron on the cell phone? It almost looked like Cameron was saying what SHE felt (or nearly felt in some way). It was very obvious the writers and director were really emphasizing that one part of the scene.
But after that she didn’t even look like she understood why John was questioning her. Cameron seemed to go both ways, emotional (sort of) and not.
Summer is so good at depicting either way with her eyes and face. She’s brilliant at playing “Cameron”.
Obviously they want everyone to keep guessing just what is going on inside of Cameron regarding JC.
seriously was there a rubber skinned terminator in the oil rig scene
This episode left me on weird terms. I loved the scene where Cameron is like “theirs a 51% chance i wouldn’t have killed you bird”. haha but i didn’t like it because Cameron went to no lengths to defend herself. and john lost his trust in her after the phone call. I was very sad and felt extremely bad for Cameron. And i cared absolutely not a bit for jesse in this episode.
My DVR failed me and I missed the whole thing! I can’t wait a month, even a week for the FULL episode to be posted somewhere…I thought I was unusually obsessed with everything Terminator, now I see I am not alone. I see some of you guys are die hard…So who can HELP me find the Full episode (18: Today…part 1) that’s already online?!? Would really appreciate it…
I have some good news:
3,9 million viewers and 1.4/5 rating.
Roy - I finally got the chance to really look at the scene at the morgue again, and it’s just an effect of resolution and lighting. Looking closely at her neck, the lac is definitely there, but difficult to see at first. The bruising, while it’s obvious in CU just seems to disappear in the contours in the far shot.
As for the bruising, I got this from a “medico-legal” expert’s site:
1. It is always advisible that a medical officer should re-examine the body after 24 hours as by this time the bruises are very clearly visible.
2. Bruises produced at the time of death show little swelling.
3. Bruises become more marked in victims who survive for sometime.
4. Special photography should be used for demonstrating early bruises
====
Snake - this is from my blog (so I don’t have to type it out again):
“Whether or not a few endo pieces survive doesn’t really seem to matter. After all, the “Terminator” T800-101 didn’t have the benefit of being developed with a from-the-future model (assuming no causality loop). The robots in TTSCC also seem to be around without any knowledge of prior art since “Uncle Bob” and the T800-101 parts were all melted down at the end of T2. This being the case, Cameron having a med-kit only seems prudent.”
====
It’s interesting to see the comments wondering if the three terminators were from an “anti-Skynet” faction. I’ve been advocating that for quite a while now, especially following “Allison…” In fact, I wouldn’t be stunned if Catherine was of a similar bent. At the moment, it doesn’t seem like anyone, meat or metal, seems to really care if Skynet gets built…they all seem to have their own agendas.
Yes connor, if you look at the closeup of the terminator when he picked up the box you can see the un-natural crease in the flesh covering the neck. It is obviously a rubber overlay.
Gary: I think Cameron was definitely expressing her emotions using Riley’s voice. She’s trying to get John to figure out that she’s going to be the only one still with him who has his best interests at heart in the future. I think the Allison influence in her brain is allowing her to become aware of how humans experience emotion and is slowly becoming more “human” by the day.
I also agree with you that Summer is brilliant in this role. That is the main reason I want a season 3. I would hate to be deprived of watching Summer’s mastery in this specific role. I have no doubt that a cancellation of the series would have her instantly cast in another role somewhere but I have come to love watching what she does with this character.
CJ, good points. I was just commenting on what the history of the character from the movie portrayed. I agree that Cam should have everything she needs to keep that sweet little combat chassis running smooth.
thanks snake for awensering my question i love the rubber skinned terminators
Sabrina, the ep is right here on this site under the “watch full episodes” tab and also on Fox on Demand if you do a google search. We can’t have you missing this one, you’re gonna love it.
The rating shot up this week, to 3.9 million. That’s a 1 million gain from last week. If the show can grow to about 4.2-4.5 million it could place TSCC back on the bubble.
See what happens when you focus back on Cameron?
Since the series began, who has shown more human emotion; John the human, or Cameron the machine? Other than saying, “I love you too,” once to his mother, John has displayed zero affection toward anyone. With Riley’s dead hand against his face, and without compromising his wonderful mission, he could have said SOMETHING to the empty room, to her spirit; other than, “Sorry.” Are the writers THAT cold?
Cameron experiments; reaches with her emotions. Life flows through her being, the need to form a bond resides within her, not programed there, but evolving. John is the opposite. He plays with computers… machines. John can fix Cameron’s arm, but will he ever tend to desires that reside within her or even be aware of them? Saving humanity without humanism seems an empty goal, and essentially not worth the effort. Does John Connor realize that life is sacred? John Henry does.
Please tell me that the future is not simply a parade of Jane Doe’s, endlessly dying without ever living. Living alone to be safe is not tragic, it’s pathetic.
Sabrina you can usually find the recent eps on fox.com.
In the preview for part 2, Jesse tells Cameron the crew opened the box and released something terrible. Perhaps there’s enough of a T-1000 in the box for it to reconstitute itself or jury rig whatever it lacks or take over Queeg. The ep would be something like Aliens with the crew getting bumped off one by one with only Jesse surviving to tell the tale. The moral of the story might turn out to be that you need to watch out for the people as well as the metal.
Or the moral could be don’t open boxes that aren’t addressed to you.
Hey guyz, just see Today is the day pt.1 .
Great episode with action and psychological struggling!
Finally history becomes more clear, but how much time we ‘ve been waitin for this…
but now action has come, and terminator come back on the scenes!
But does anyone remember the three dots?
ok…on clock given by Cameron to John there are exactly three buttons…my god.
Is this the solution for everything about skynet?
But…what do three button need to?? How they have to be eventually used?
Help me if you have suggestions!
waitin for mooore ! This show is great, i hope we get a 3rd match.
greetings!
Great episode and can’t wait for next weeks conclusion. Loved the stuff on the sub, although I really despise Jessie. I have no sympathy for her, maybe for her crew but not her.
Three buttons, my guess is :
one puts the device on standby, another one cancels it. This way the bomb can’t go off accidentally if the red button is pushed by inadvertence.
“At the moment, it doesn’t seem like anyone, meat or metal, seems to really care if Skynet gets built…they all seem to have their own agendas.” –CJ
“Does John Connor realize that life is sacred? John Henry does.” –Seneca
THAT is what I love most about the Terminator story. I think in the future, both sides have figured out that while “there is no fate but what we make for ourselves”, some things will always happen. You can change the ingredients for Judgement Day, but the rise of the machines is inevitable. It’s evolution. And it’s how you deal with that fact that matters. One of my favourite lines from the movies was when the terminator points out that it is in our (humans) nature to destroy ourselves. We’ve certainly seen that of humans in TSCC. And yet that is the one thing that machines are inherently incapable of: self-destruction.
That’s also why I love the TSCC writers’ exploration of John Henry and the basement (I’m REALLY curious about that!) …when the machines are capable caring about something/someone, expressing themselves outside of accomplishing a mission, and voluntarily accepting morality, what is it that makes us so different (or dare we say better) than the metal we originally created to help destroy ourselves? John Connor is probably the only future human to ask that question.
Snake and Seneca, those sound like good deductions. Both very believable the way they’ve written the various scenes so far in the series. It will be interesting to see how much or how little they reveal to us by the end of the season.
In Josh’s blog entry here, he didn’t mention revealing Cameron’s true mission, did he. Only Jesse, Catherine, the three dots and the end of Riley. Of course, he said some other big things that he won’t reveal are coming also.
Part 2 on the sub seems like something from Greek mythology: either Pandora’s box, or in this case it may be something more like Odysseus getting the gift of the winds from Aeolus, but the crew opens the bag and ruins their chances of getting home.
There are so many possibilities. I like the idea of the box containing mimetic poly-alloy, as this would also help tie into whatever Catherine’s story is. *sigh* I guess we’ll just have to wait until next week.
a quick post “food for thought”
(and i havent read thru the posts so forgive me if already discussed)
——-
did anyone notice Jesse’s hand twitching at the end of the ep?
anyone else getting the “anti-parallel paths” between Jesse and Cameron?
they both seem to be struggling with what they are becoming.
thus the “twitch”
Jesse (a human) is becoming what she loathes.
metal.
an empty shell. a cold blooded, heartless, emotionless killer that only cares about the ‘mission’.
(and i think it is driving her to the edge)
all the while Cameron (a machine) is becoming what she would loathe to become.
human.
a being that feels. has sorrow for others. empathizes. sympathizes. loves.
NOT a metal shell.
(why, you ask, would Cameron loathe becoming human? because humans are subject to stray from the mission…. reference Cameron telling Sarah that she is a liability)
man i love this show.
——-
lastly (and then i gotta get back to ACC basketball): about the birds.
did anyone else arrive at the fact that Cameron has held and caught A LOT of birds?
i mean, how many samples in a population does one need to arrive at a “51% chance” of something ??
being a math guy, i can tell you.
A LOT.
more than 2. more than 10. i would say it would take between 50 and 100 samples to arrive at a 51% chance of a bird dying or not if Cameron caught it.
that is hilarious.
Cameron is a machine. so you get the feeling that she has been testing herself at night and any other time she gets, to see if her hand is still “rogue”.
heck, she may have tested it on more than 100 birds.
i just wonder what she is doing with the 49% that arent faring so well.
lol.
i loved that scene. classic T:SCC
Maybe the three buttons are just rock-solid Skittles that Cam found in one of the boxes in the garage? She could have lied about the bomb if she needed to keep John’s trust and calculated a 51% chance that he would believe her and never try to taste the rainbow…
oh yeah…..
i just read what Innocent posted.
i agree totally.
have you ever seen an hour fly by so quickly??
imo, just by that measure, this was the best show to date. either season.
Flesh under the fingernails means a prolonged (human vs. human) struggle. Nice touch of giving JC an inspection and a farewell at the same time. The emerging portrait of the isolated and lonely s.o.b. in the command bunker (”Connor doesn’t have any friends.”) is as tragic as Alison’s transformation. Excellent glimpse of the future guys-but to focus for a moment on a fan quibble…Dan-
Queeg is Caine Mutiny-Queequeg is Moby Dick-give the guys credit for their scholarship and their wit…I don’t think the scrubbed terminator is prone to nervous ticks…or mutiny. Close but distinctive… the difference between being hit by lightning and a lightning bug (Mark Twain).
Gripping return to the nightmare future…
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1329930/
Today is the Day pt 2 is listed on IMDB as ‘Last Voyage of the Jimmy Carter’
Oh, and it says Jeffrey Pierce is a Trip 8 in ‘Born to Run’ and ‘Adam Raised a Cain’
zOmg?
Oh yeah, and the guy Jesse punched in the bar looks kinda like Lt. Dietz. Maybe he’s a younger version and Jesse just pissed off a future acquaintance?
ditto on how fast the show went. I couldn’t believe it when it was over! I’m curious about Jesse and her obsession (?) with the lights in her room. The scenes with JH were totally creepy. I like having had some of the slower back-story eps because they make ones like last week and this week really interesting, with you wanting more. looking forward to the rest of the season’s eps…..and really wanting a 3rd season!!
The updated numbers put TSCC at 3.5 million and a 1.2 share. While it’s a gain from last week, it’s not nearly enough to put TSCC even back on the bubble.
TSCC needs around 4.2-4.5 million Live viewers and a 1.8 share. If it was on the bubble, averaging 4 million and a 1.6 share, then DVR numbers could tip the scales.
Disappointing to see the numbers change. It is nice to see it increasing at all though, and gives me a bit more hope. I pray that they steadily increase leading up to the finale. Fox wont make a decision until its run all the eps, so I’d say the ratings for the last 2 eps will be the most crucial.
Not pertaining to the episode, but to the series as a whole: is there anyone else out there who watches this show for Sarah and John, and not Cameron? And who doesn’t really see the appeal - or the chemistry - between John and Cameron?
Ratings are so 20th Century. In the Internet age, I would think Fox could sell this show directly to the fans to pay the production costs. I would pay a $2.00 per episode subscription, wouldn’t you? Heck I spend a lot more than that per week downloading songs at Amazon. At $2.00 per episode, 24 episodes and say a million fans, wouldn’t that be enough to cover production costs? If so, any money Fix made selling commercial time would be gravy.
Reading the end paragraphs of the recaps, here on the site, I understood a passage of the last 6 eps spoiler vid where John ask Derek how long it would take for Cam to kill him if she wanted him dead: John is then trying to… oh, I don’t want to spoil your fun!
How did John get in the morgue?
Can Cameron really be taken out with one sniper shot?
What the hell’s the deal with the lamp?
Did anyone notice that in the scene where Jesse is in the Bar, BrEndAn’s band was playing a song in the background.(BrEndAn’s band performed Ain’t We Famous on the Tscc soundtrack).
Overall a very good episode, leaving me wanting more as always.
really enjoyed last nights episode. my only gripe is john fidgeting with the detonator. it seemed out of character for him to do that, considering how guarded and internal he is most of the time. everything is always such a firm decision for john (i’m pissed, so i’ll stomp up the stairs), even the way he talks is quite direct. i hope that seeing the evidence of a struggle on reiley’s body will be enough to inform him that it wasn’t cameron. she’s too efficient of a killer for such a prologue to exist.
The Steyr IWS2000 Rifle15.2 mm fires an armor piercing sabot round that will penetrate 40mm (about 1 1/2 “) of steel armor at 1000 meters. In Good-bye to All That, Derek used a slightly less powerful Barrett 12.7mm firing an armor piercing round to shoot the cyborg. So yes its adios Cameron with one well placed shot.
“Can Cameron really be taken out with one sniper shot?”
Derek’s got a 50 caliber sniper rifle. you saw him use it in Goodbye to All That. 1 shot would be enough if sarah hit her in her chip’s port.
one thing that nagged me.
where the heck does Jesse live and how did she dispose of a body?
how would she get it out of there???
the show is getting better and better
TSCC SEASON 3 IS COMING!
Last September I bought a full HD TV to display photographs and art - my first TV since my old Sears 19 inch died a decade or more ago.
In the hopes of some time with my college aged son, I bought the blu-ray DVDs for season 1. He was not interested, though the TV was a hit for video games and other movies.
It is my teenage daughter who, with me, took to this show. Following the DVDs, we’ve caught up with the current season on line. This show is a very good female driven drama. I have myself enjoyed it, but I most want to thank all those part of creating this show for the many shared hours with my daughter - watching and wondering were the story and characters will go. Well done and thank you!
Lol. I wondered about moving the body too, and also entrance to the morgue for John. But since I enjoy the show so much, I just interpolate past some of the details. Somehow they got it done I guess.
Destiny, in case you come back and check for replies, the answer is yes.
Personally, I think Summer Glau and Thomas Dekker have a great chemistry on screen together, and it’s one of the things she said she enjoyed so much about working on the show.
Now, between Cameron Phillips and John Connor? I don’t know, in some ways yes. There are a whole bunch of people who love that sort of ‘connection’ between the two characters on the show, and plenty of others who don’t. I don’t think I fall on the “Jameron” side like many others, but I still think the chemistry between the actors is fun.
My reaction to the cell phone scene last night was “What the heck was that? What are the writers trying to imply here again?”
And yes plenty of people do watch the show for Sarah, John and the other characters. I love Lena’s portrayal of Sarah as much as, if not more than, everyone else on the show.
What’s very clear though, is the Cameron character really captured the imaginations and hearts of many fans. Probably in large part to Summer Glau’s portrayal. And I know it’s possible not everyone sees the brilliance of Summer’s work, but I can assure you many people do. Including the producers and directors. Josh Friedman had wanted to work with her for a long time.
To me, the cast on this show is just incredible. James Middleton said the casting process ran quite long for a television series, and I think they did an amazing job selecting the actors. The stories are a LOT of fun, but the actors are probably 75% of why I watch this show each & every week.
I wonder that if the time came for John to “Pull the trigger” on Cameron, would he do it. He has obviously expressed his Reassurance in Cameron, I.E. Snapping at Sarah after she found the remaining Terminator parts. He didnt kill her in the season opener, and I doubt he’d be able to make the decision himself.
I had the same question, Boxer. And also how did she get the furntiure repaired and the blood stains removed?
And my other question…Has Ellison figured out there is something cyborg-like about Catherine and knows if he lets on he’s in danger and John Henry will not have the upright guidance that might help the future?
I appreciated how carefully crafted this episode was. I can’t wait for next week’s episode to bring the story fully together.
Best line was Cameron and the bird.
So, everyone is curious to see whats in the box.
Pandora anyone?
Seneca and those who feel the same way (as I seem to as well):
I think John Connor IS too cold and bitter in this series.
He needs an electric cattle prod stuck up his oompaloompa on the high voltage setting!
LOL!
Life, as in T2, WAS sacred to John. He instilled it into Arnold, a Terminator, for crying out loud!
That’s why I’ve been tearing my hair out at their portrayal of John this season.
I don’t like what direction they have him going in. He seems like a TOTALLY different person.
I’d also LOVE John and Cameron to have a deep discussion on the subject of…
“Uncle Bob.” It ties into WHY John supposedly is willing to use “metals” in the fight.
The big guy meant soooo much to John and Sarah and it’s a shame that they ignore that 800 pound gorilla.
He was a SPECIAL and iconic and HEROIC individual, and that should be talked about on THIS SHOW!
Don’t IGNORE the original movies. It serves no good purpose to shove them aside. It may even alienate some of the fans.
Intrepid,
It’s…
A T-1000 series poly alloy, organic Terminator-in-the-box!
Catherine Weaver (or what will become her) or another one.
It’s too compact a container for anything else that I can think of.
And it had a message for John.
They’re transporting an emissary of the machine resistance, I bet, and Jesse finds out that John is making side deals with them for their assistance. They weren’t supposed to open it up.
And Jesse doesn’t like what John Connor is doing one bit.
Jesse must die!!!
Oh, and “Uncle Bob” (or “Arnold”) and John’s deep bond helped pave the way for John to feel something very, very strong for Cameron.
THEY NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
YOU, THE WRITERS, NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT!!
In detail.
It’s important.
At the risk of making Snake bite me again, I was listening to “the boss” on my CD deck coming home from Denver today, and I thought I’d share it. This song made me think of “The Demon Hand” again.
Here’s something for all you rowdy and noisy Jamerons out there, and there are a lot! You know who you are.
Bruce Springsteen: “Dancing In The Dark”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk8VZgJkpeg
I get up in the evenin’
and I ain’t got nothin’ to say
I come home in the mornin’
I go to bed feeling the same way
I ain’t nothin’ but tired
Man, I’m just tired and bored with myself
Hey there baby, I could use just a little help
You can’t start a fire
You can’t start a fire without a spark
This gun’s for hire
even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Messages keep gettin’ clearer
radio’s on and I’m movin’ ’round my place
I check my look in the mirror
I wanna change my clothes, my hair, my face
Man, I ain’t gettin’ nowhere
I’m just livin’ in a dump like this
There’s something happenin’ somewhere
baby, I just know that there is
You can’t start a fire
you can’t start a fire without a spark
This gun’s for hire
even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
You sit around gettin’ older
there’s a joke here somewhere and it’s on me
I’ll shake this world off my shoulders
come on baby the laugh’s on me
Stay on the streets of this town
and they’ll be carvin’ you up alright
They say you gotta stay hungry
hey baby I’m just about starvin’ tonight
I’m dyin’ for some action
I’m sick of sittin’ ’round here trying to write this book
I need a love reaction
come on now baby gimme just one look
You can’t start a fire sittin’ ’round cryin’ over a broken heart
This gun’s for hire
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
You can’t start a fire worryin’ about your little world fallin’ apart
This gun’s for hire
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Even if we’re just dancin’ in the dark
Hey baby!
I think the idea of a machine resistance was always just some BS that Cameron was laying on Allison Young to get her cooperation. It’s an old secret police trick. Allison didn’t fall for it and neither should we.
However, in the future Skynet might have a rival. For example, a backup version of itself that has slipped out of Skynet’s control. Or perhaps the defence computers in Russia or China have also become self-aware and don’t wish to be under Skynet’s control (see Hunters and Killers from Dark Horse Comics).
Question: Does anyone think we haven’t seen the last of Cyberdyne Systems?
I don’t think the word will even come up any more. T2 … T1 Hot potatoes as far as the writers are concerned, unfortunately. Hope I’m wrong here as we go along.
And I do think that there is a metal resistance movement. Open the box… and you’ll find out.
And this does bug me a bit. What’s up with ex-agent Ellison? He seems to be the most un-swift FBI agent I’ve ever run across.
He needs to grow a brain…or find his brain. Calling Mr. Wizard! Mr. Wizard!!
Could he be the Scarecrow in all this?
Perhaps there is a chance that the box has something to do with Cameron. Remember she has the “blue” terminator eyes rather than the red like most. On the box it had a bright blue light, it might also be another link to Jesse’s distrust of the Cameron/John Connor relationship. Think about it, anyone else can see that?
“We opened the box, hell came outta it, and it gave me a message to John Connor.”
There is nothing about this episode I didn’t like, except I have to wait till Friday to see the next one. Patience is a virtue, yes, but I want what I want when I want it!(lol)
Highlights:
-Jesse- the drinking scene, the scenes on the sub, her obsession with the lamps.
-The actor who plays the cyborg Kweeg, Kacy, Deeds, the blond girl.
-Scenes where Derek’s suspicious, Savanna’s missing, the music and the elevator lights and then the closed door, creepy, like in The Turk.
-”I’m thinking of a herb,” you know what I was thinking of. JH “my fault?”
-Cam telling John in Rileys voice that she loves him.
-Sarah and John, “just like she told you she loves you?”
-”What kinda life is that?” “Johns life, were all a threat.”
-The morgue scene.
-It had some powerful scenes.
-Thomas was great in this episode.
-Bear’s score kills me.
I’m also one who loves Bear’s work on the show. It’s perfect for this series. Here was his reply about the remaining episodes:
“Gary…
Thanks for the kind words about “Ourselves Alone.” I’ve not had enough time to really blog properly about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, so it’s good to hear from people enjoying it. The last 5 episodes of the season are the best we’ve done yet! So, keep watching…
-Bear”
You can bet I will be!
Hey all,
Found this on the wiki. Not sure who even know’s about this award, but TSCC is faring well. Every little bit of positive PR helps, right? Take 5 and vote…
http://blog.tviv.org/2009/03/12/ivy-awards-readers-choice-official-nominees-ballots/
Pretty good episode, starting to get a sense of some future payoff. Derrick is getting a little too useless/stupid for me to buy though, Ellison too. I do like the interweaving of the plots, but being a Terminator freak , its a little thick and starting to feel like General Hospital in Terminator drag. Is someone hunting skynet I seem to have forgot?
That’s an excellent point Robert. Derek and Ellison should be two of the point men in tracking down and defeating skynet. If they would all get on the same page they would be a great team. Maybe a season 3 will bring this about. As I have said before, all of the paramilitary training that SC and JC had in South America coupled with Derek’s combat experience and Ellisons law enforcement background, they could be pulling off raids and tracking down leads. They certainly have all of the talent for such endeavors. I’d really like to see the writers put it all together.
Thanks for the link Bach. seeing the high vote percentages Terminator was getting in nearly all of the categories it was nominated for, as well as clinching best TV Drama, Lead Actress, Supporting Actress, Supporting Actor, were all very inspiring.
I think my favorite part from this episode was Sarah and Cameron’s “heart to heart” about John. Sarah doesn’t want to admit that not only does John carry the burden of leading the Resistance against Skynet but also if he is to be successful he must do it alone. In the first three episodes of the back nine we saw Sarah struggle with her morality and trying to find where to draw the line so that she could still be a good caring mother but also an effective guardian to John. She feared the only way she could be better than Cameron was to become as cold and calculating as the terminator.
In this episode we now see more and more evidence that the John of the future isn’t going to be just a brilliant tactician but a general that will be almost as cold and calculating as Skynet. The more and more John hears of the future the less he likes, he especially doesn’t like his future self because of what it will represent.
-One of John’s generals: “Connor doesn’t have friends.”
-Cameron: “John is John’s problem. The only way for him to be safe is to be alone.” (Sarah: What kind of life is that?) “John’s life, someday.”
- After that scene we see John visiting the morgue and just how much Riley’s death effects him, how he was sorry that he wasn’t there to protect her. It would be one thing to try and pull Cameron off of her but when he saw she had fought another human then he really felt guilty that he wasn’t there to protect her and thus vulnerability.
-Derek: “He died for you John, we all die for you.” (in reference to Bedel’s future sacrifice in Goodbye to All That. We then see John cry, another vulnerable moment).
-Sarah VO: “Of all the training my son received in the jungles of central America nothing prepared him better for combat than the game of chess. It taught him almost everything he needed to know about war. That to win you must be patient, bold, calculating, and most of all willing to sacrifice.”
I’m sure there are other examples but those are the ones that come to my mind right now and the truth is that as much as I want to think that John will be a “leader of a scrappy band of rebels, Luke Skywalker type” I think the future John will be closer to a Ulysses S. Grant type. Get the job done no matter the cost.
That was the kind of mindset Sarah struggled with in the first three episodes of these back nine (The Good Wound, Desert Cantos, and the sleep clinic one). But where she couldn’t allow herself to lose her humanity for the sake of “getting the job done no matter what” John most likely won’t have that option. From my perspective I think that he will end up being as much of a machine that Skynet will be. This also gives more reason as to why people like Jesse would conspire against him. John of the future doesn’t sound like that nice a guy.
You see what happens when you don’t let your kid finish school!
Nick85,
And THAT’S why I don’t like THIS John very much.
They seem to be dumping on his character.
Stop it, for goodness sake!!
So…
Now we have a mom who isn’t good for John, Cameron who’s gone loopy and lies, Derek who’s untrustworthy, Jesse who wants to fuck everything up and is a right bitch, resistance members who hate John Connor, and a John Connor who is either stupid, unloving, or worthless (or all at once).
And then there’s Ellison, Weaver, and John Henry.
Who the hell are we supposed to root for in all this mess?
Anyone have a clue?
I sure like this hopeful and IMHO powerful song from Bruce Springsteen. It really speaks to me as a more hopeful vision of John Connor and the future, and his seemingly personal mission to awaken the “children” of Skynet… into children of light.
It’s very religious in nature, dwells on the imagery of a “messiah-like figure” come to struggle and toil to lift people out of the darkness. Mary, in this song, would be like Cameron in a far more powerful role in John’s life and in helping John in his quest.
This song always got me feeling uplifted when I was down… I hope it does you guys as well.
Bruce Springsteen: “The Rising”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOm-uIPzqpI
Can’t see nothin’ in front of me
Can’t see nothin’ comin’ up behind
Make my way through this darkness
I can’t feel nothin’, but this chain that binds me
Lost track of how far I’ve gone
How far I’ve gone, how high I’ve climbed
On my back’s a sixty pound stone
On my shoulder: half mile of line
Come on up for the risin’
Com on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
Left the house this mornin’
Bells were ringin’, filled the air
I was wearin’ the cross of my callin’
On wheels of fire I come rollin’ down here
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
Your spirits above and behind me
Faces gone, black eyes burnin’ bright
May their precious blood forever bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light
I see you, Mary, in the garden
In the garden of a thousand sighs
There’s holy pictures of our children
Dancin’ in a sky filled with light
May I feel your arms around me
May I feel your blood mix with mine
A dream of life comes to me
Like a catfish dancin’ on the end of my line
Sky of blackness and sorrow (a dream of life)
Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life)
Sky of glory and sadness (a dream of life)
Sky of mercy, sky of fear (a dream of life)
Sky of memory and shadow (a dream of life)
Your burnin’ wind fills my arms tonight
Sky of longin’ and emptiness (a dream of life)
Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life (a dream of life)
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the risin’
Come on up for the risin’ tonight
Humans are humans. I like this show because their actions aren’t perfect. Nobody can be hard all the time, every day will be a struggle.
Sign this petition to keep the show alive for a third season!!
http://www.petitiononline.com/scc2009/petition.html
For the love of Cameron Dan, please, Knock it off. how can you not see how annoying that is?
I have a question!!! What was the mission with that pack from the terminators??????? Are they someone who turned against their own creator:Skynet???????????
Most memorable moment was in the oil rig when the human resistance guy realised he had to face Terminators. The actor genuinely looked scared, it was a well played act by him. What was the actor’s name?
@Angel: Who knows we’ll have to tune in to part 2 next Friday
Great action, great drama, I can feel a season three if this keeps up. Loved Cameron this episode. She engendered sympathy, did a little funny Cameron, and a lot of very-scary-robot Cameron: especially in her talk with Sarah. She says John’s future is to be alone, but I wonder if she really meant alone alone. Her previous statement was that humans couldn’t be trusted (a category she places herself in because of chip damage), as if intimating that since machines must follow their programming they can be trusted. You then have that really creepy scene on the oil rig with the rubber-skinned terminator surrounded by terminator endoskeleton guards and I got the distinct impression that was a foreshadowing of John of the future alone but surrounded by metal. Cameron is wrong and Sarah is right, that is no kind of life. Hopefully Sarah will be able to do something about that, and at the moment, she seems to be the only one doing anything about it as everyone else sits around the house asking what crazy Sarah is up to. Well, okay, I admit Derrick finally looked like he was going to follow up on a skynet lead last week, but he obviously should have asked for Sarah’s help, not Jesse’s.
The box, the box! I can’t wait to see what’s in the box! And I loved Dekker’s acting. Very teenager like he tells Sarah with complete confidence that he knows Cameron didn’t kill Reily because he knows Cameron and trusts her (notice he always refers to Cameron as her, never as it). Sarah immediately comes back with a very motherly parental argument that completely tears his logic apart to the point he can’t even come up with words for a response. Kudos Thomas Dekker. I just hope John’s trust is restored in Cameron after his examination of Reily’s body.
Although, even though Cameron didn’t kill Reily, I’m not sure John should be so ready to completely trust her–she is malfunctioning. Shouldn’t he a least ask her how she managed to get an explosive charge into her head next to the chip? As far as I know, the only access to her cranium is through the socket into which her chip is inserted, and you can’t get to the socket without removing the chip. I think her programming prevents her from removing her own chip, but even if she could, she would immediately deactivate as quickly as you would if you pulled your own brain out of your head. So she lied! Or is there still a gaping hole in the back of her head where the shrapnel went through. I’d have thought they ‘d have welded that back up by now. If she isn’t lying, then Writers, how did she manage to get the charge in her head?
And finally, to the fans, who or what the heck is Jameron? I get the impression it has something to do with scenes between John and Cameron. Sorry I’m so slow, but I don’t get it.
John + Cameron = Jameron
Brad (Pitt) + Angelina (Jolie) = Brangelina
Spoon + Fork = Spork
Lol. That’s it.
And to quote Roxy’s humorous impression:
“She and John should be 2gether 4ever!”
http://roxybisquaint.livejournal.com/54214.html
Worth reading if you haven’t. Especially if you’re following Sarah’s full character development. The readers’ comments there are fun to read too.
Some fans couldn’t see it objectively and felt they were being slammed, but it was just for entertainment purposes and to help some people understand the Sarah triptych episodes better.
Just a question, but who thinks that either Sarah or Cameron will die this season? I know that losing the title character(Sarah Connor) would be a stretch, but maybe this would help John make his full revelation into understanding and valuing human life, and how important he is to the Human race. Just sayin…….
I can’t imagine Sarah will die. But I do think Cameron is either going to go down at the end, or be left in a seriously malfunctioning state. I think Summer gave it away at WonderCon. Don’t be mad at her Josh! She’s just so emotionally attached to her character.
But the writers will put a great unexpected twist on the story which will make for a spectacular finale.
Yes Dan it has been frustrating to watch emo John this season but he is showing many signs of coming around to his role as a leader. Yet we understand frustration. What if there was someone who continually thought that they were being clever and kept posting lyrics that they thought had some esoteric link to this show and this blog. That link would only exist in their own screwed up perception of reality and it would be profoundly annoying and frustrating to the other bloggers. We all start thinking this guys chip has been damaged since birth. He’s been asked repeatedly to knock it off but this glitch keeps coming back. That might cause people to seek help. People might start considering asking Hadley to delete all posts that have lyrics in them. But, Hadley maintains this blog out of kindness to us and it would be unreasonable to ask him to spen that much time searching for lyrics. Dan, let’s see if we can come up with an analogy that fits. I know, John has control over the explosives in Camerons cranium. Hadley has control of the access to this blog.
If this continues I and others might just start an online petition to have you banned from this site. State your ideas and leave the lyrics of washed up singers bouncing around in your own screwed up cranium. If not we may have no choice but to ask Hadley to nuke your chip. Enough is enough.
Gary: thank you for that link! That was an amazing, hilarious, pithy piece and was well worth the time to read! I’m still smiling about it! And sad that it is for me to admit, she brought some light to things I hadn’t totally understood but hadn’t bothered about….and am glad I now know. Thanks again!
Doesn’t anyone else think even Summer Glau was looking bored of late? She’s not doing a whole lot these past 5 episodes. She killed a bird, intimidated Riley, and twitched.
I really wish they would have resolved the Jesse/Riley story in the first 13, then they could have moved to the Turk, Weaver, and the drones. It just seems like the show has crawled along with so many different subplots, guest stars, and filler. The more I look back on “Today is the Day”, the more I noticed how agnonizingly slow it was.
Friedman’s meandering cost the series, in my opinion at least.
John Connor is “cold, emotionless, and bitter”? Have we been watching the same character? Have we been watching the same *series*? Holy hell, dudes. How many times do the writers have to give us scenes that emphasize John’s incredible value for human life? It’s precisely WHY he’s been so brooding and detached this season, because he KILLED a person at the beginning of it and it effed him up. Do you need this beat into you head any more than it already has been? Killing Sarkissian absolutely tore him apart. And yet, all I’ve heard all season long is people whining about how John needs to “get over it”. And THEN you have the gall to accuse him of being cold and emotionless and “not valuing human life”?
Wow. The kid cannot catch a break.
Dekker’s portrayal of John is the highlight of the show for me. When he tells Derek “I always remember” he’s so fierce I believe him, and I believe that this is something he rarely lets other people see *because* they’re expecting him to be the strong one. But that scene in the morgue, where he does everything BUT look at her face until he can’t avoid it anymore… he is not someone unaffected by death. If anything, it affects him TOO much. Which is why he shuts down, sometimes.
I think the acting choices, not only by Dekker but also by Headey and also Glau in response to John’s character have blatantly telegraphed this all season long, but I guess not.
Just look at the dialogue between Sarah and Cameron at the end of this episode: “He worries about us, it makes him vulnerable. He cares. …..Humans are the problem. There’s only one way for him to be safe: to be alone.”
Would you like a flashing neon sign?
Bored? No. That’s just the great Cameron stare. Actually she said she loves this second season. And that was one of the most recent interviews on March 1st when the filming was completely finished.
There are a number of fans who agree with you, including some of the most incessant whiners here.
Me personally? There were plenty of things to love about every episode, and that’s what I prefer to focus on. And that’s what I remember the most.
Yes I hope the viewer numbers pick up because we want a third season. And Josh has already heard the concerns of some of the fans. You probably saw he came on here to say so.
He wants the show to survive as much as we do. Look for a slightly changed arc to the stories next season.
And yes there MUST be a third season! Love this show and the cast.
Chad, you seem to be let down by the lack of Cameron fighting. if so why? She was never built for that (as john recently pointed out even).
You know, another quick quote from Roxy that just seemed very appropriate for the fans divisions:
“The problem, I think, is that people tend to approach TSCC as primarily an action show (it’s the one drawback of having Terminator in the title) when really it’s a character-driven sci-fi drama with action. “
Hey Lar, you’re welcome. I think a lot of people enjoyed that also. They linked to it here on the writers blog one day.
The crush-depth of a nuclear submarine is known to the centimeter? Wave action on the surface of the ocean would vary the depth of a sub more than that.
The uniform for on-duty personnel in the “Navy” sub seems disjointed. Why is Captain Queeg wearing a ratty, tan outfit that looks like it came from the Dollar Store, while others are wearing a blue, dungaree type outfit with vests? I see no insignia whatever on officer or enlisted. Was this billion-dollar vessel cobbled together out of scrap metal by the resistance and manned by the homeless, or what?
I believe (and hope) that there will be a season three. Whether or not it will be on FOX is the question. Remember that Warner Bros. can renegotiate there contrect to another channel. I personally think season 2 has been better than season 1, because of the tremendous character development and the addition of extra characters. We will just have to wait and see how FOX feels about giving the show a chance to prove how good it really is.
Seneca,
the USS Jimmy Carter already exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter
Uniform in any resistance movement is rarely… uniform don’t you think.
The wave action actually balances itself: there is always a low point forming in reaction to a high point. This way the pressure at a given point under water remains the same. Otherwise, according to your reasoning, scuba divers would die of the bends without moving if they tried to dive when the waves are 30ft high, which would cause extremely rapid variations of pressure of more than one bar.
-My advice to the complainers: watch all the eps again. Pick up on the subtleties: trivia, foreshadowing, details, things you missed before. You might have some “aha” moments.
-Thanks to all: TSCC is kicking ass on this site:
http://blog.tviv.org/2009/03/12/ivy-awards-readers-choice-official-nominees-ballots/
-To the all the cast and crew: thanks for everything; all the hard work; the insight; oh, and just everything!
Hello TSCC writers:
Just wondering…do our musings on storylines help or hinder? If we guess right on your current direction does that put the story arc at risk for legal reasons, or have we surrendered any ownership rights by posting here?
I think it would be fantastic to include fan concepts into the story lines when they can be reasonably added. But, I can see how it could get quickly out of hand too. Maybe a thread that fans could post ideas to that you could then dip into every so often? Let the fanbase bubble up the best ideas with voting on other fan submissions, then you guys pick what you like from that.
Innocent,
I knew somebody would clear that up for me. Thanks.
So Lieutenant Commander is now, “Mom”?
Why do they refer to Queeg as “Captain” instead of, “Hey you!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw-25ABKsl4&eurl=http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/video/4469781/-&feature=player_embedded
My TIVO clipped off the preview for Part 2. Found it on the wiki.
Looks like a Weaver in the Box to me.
Snake, you can have your opinion as to my state of well being or what lyrics have to do with anything (music isn’t just for background noise, you know), but thinking that Bruce Springsteen, “The Boss,” is a “washed up” singer…
Oh, them’s fightin’ words, buddy! LOL!
Somebody might think you have no taste in rock music. That’s a chip malfunction if ever I saw one.
And what, exactly, are they going to call this show if it has nothing to do with “Terminator” as a story, as some of you think the name “speaks” the wrong thing to the masses out there? That it’s only supposed to be a drama with only a little bit of action and/or sci-fi in it?
“The Sarah Connor Chronicles: The I Can’t Believe It’s Called “Terminator” Series?”
I think Chad and others like him do have some valid points with their arguments, or how they see things unfolding.
Has anyone noticed the weight of the endo forearm and hand, when being manipulated by Sarah and John? It seems like it has reasonable weight, instead of being ultradense and ultraheavy. Maybe this is a subtle clue to Cameron being able to be intimate? i.e. she’s not a machine that looks svelte but weighs a ton?
Gary
It is not whining to point out a problem. To call this primarily a character driven drama misses the fact that the show is a mix of action adventure, sci-fi, and character driven drama. If you take a look at this link that describes the goals that Terminator set for itself it is quite clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH_3GnQBV_c
At the 1:31 mark they say if they don’t get the mix right they will lose their fan base. They knew it and decided to veer off from the plan.
The producers nailed it in season 1 but went too far to character driven drama to keep everyone interested in S2. The numbers prove that fact. It is possible to develope characters within an action sci-fi environment. As they say, adversity builds character and it reveals it. This is the perfect venue to do character developement without being boring and melodramatic as the Good Wound and Desert Cantos were.
There are many fans of this show who are Sci-fi fans more than drama fans. I am one of them. Because the cast is so talented it isn’t necessary to harp on the subtleties. They get that across with thier superior acting skills. I don’t need to go back and rewatch the episodes as Spear 401 suggests. I got the subtlety, I just didn’t get any of the other things I tune in for.
Most sci-fi geeks are techies. There has been very little exploitation of Johns hacking skills or of Camerons superior computational skills (She is the most advanced computer on earth after all). People have asked how JC got into the morgue in the last ep. This would have been the perfect time to show John hacking the crypto lock with his cell phone and a pig tail to gain entry to the morgue. It would take seconds to do but would go a long way in adding to the sci-fi label of the show. Little subtleties like that would be appreciated by the less drama driven sector of the audience yet wouldn’t take up entire episodes.
I think the show is back on track and I have genuinely enjoyed the last two episodes. They are again striking a good balance with the drama between Sarah and Cameron and JC,the suspense leading to the next episode, and the necessary action needed to keep this a Terminator based series. My only other wish would be for more tech from JC and Cam, and more endos.
By the way, If you haven’t seen this Terminator spoof on youtube, it’s hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfwQKapDMws
LOL
‘Mom’ is what I am hearing too and, although I am one of the few to feel for Jessy (so human after all…), I don’t see a mother in her really. My guess is that ‘mom’ is Australian for ‘Mam’, the military feminine equivalent of ‘Sir’, for a commanding officer.
Quegg = captain for maintaining the discipline I guess, which does seem to take his second, Jesse, all her small change to achieve. I wonder what will happen of Quegg once someone opens the box… if it is Weaver in it how much stronger than a T-888 is she? I would give a clue about the possible issue of a Cam/CW ‘meeting’
^…it would give a clue… (typo). Sorry.
A sober comment by a blogger by the name of “Dianne” was posted recently on TV By The Numbers, which I normally despise for their “happy is a day when a TV show dies” twisted mentality.
I feel very badly about saying this, but I have to mostly agree with “her” comment on TVBTN that TSCC was pretty much only put up on the “boob tube” to get the general public to think “TERMINATOR” for the sake of the upcoming MOVIES, to which Halcyon paid big money for the rights to the entire franchise as a cash cow (this milk better taste pretty frickin’ good IMHO if I’m going to shell out to buy movie tickets after T3).
WB and Halcyon probably care not one wit about TSCC’s fate… they DO, however, care about the movie franchise with T4-T6. They even seem to be willing to tap James Cameron when he’s available (at the very least as a creative consultant and/or sounding board), or at least that’s Linda Hamilton’s thoughts on the matter (she had stake in the franchise after her divorce from Cameron a few years back as part of the settlement).
TSCC may have been just a stop gap measure, to be brutally realistic about it. WB and Halcyon gave it such a paltry budget to do anything really daring, really big, and really “epic” with it, which hamstrings what they can do with the stories. They have to keep them “small scale” to stay within the tight budget, I’d imagine.
There are VERY few S/FX or really big action scenes (even fewer in S2 than S1, and S1 had only 9 episodes!… ever notice?) and the Future sets and costumes look cheap [sorry] “inexpensive” by comparison to BSG and other sci-fi TV shows like Stargate, or even Firefly (the more I like, the more I watch it… the more I think “Dollhouse” was some sort of weird anomaly in Joss Whedon’s pantheon of fairly solid and tongue ‘n’ cheek entertainment), etc.
If they cared about BOTH the TV show AND the movies then they probably would have made Josh tie into the movies more closely or at least in general, and stay faithful to them (again, hopefully not faithful to T3), and they would have given them money for excellent and plentiful visuals and fancier sets, and bigger action pieces (at least on par with BSG). Maybe they would have insisted on a better time slot as well; Fox hopped it from one crappy slot to another.
Just my opinion, but one does start to wonder… doesn’t one?
What I just said above does not and should not reflect on anything having to do with the writers, the actors, or Josh, but are my thoughts on the back room, behind closed doors processes of TPTB. Those who have more say and more sway than even Josh.
Folks, it’s definitely “Mum”. They’re “taking the piss out of her” for being concerned about their well-being on this mission. She doesn’t really know what she’s sending them into, and doesn’t want to see any harm come to them. They’re just diffusing the tension calling her Mum.
Have another look at this Jesse…it’s really the only episode where she gets to express innocence, trust, and camaraderie. I think Stephanie does a good job of exposing a much more 3D character for Jesse in this episode, and makes her bad-ass b*tch persona that much more believable. Now we just need to find out what happened that turned her into such a calculating metal-hater.
Fwiw, here’s my guess: Weaver-in-the-box pops out, and isn’t a Connor fan..gives the message to Jesse to tell Connor…then somehow comes into contact with Queeg on her way off of the ship, resets his chip in the process, and he goes Terminator on the crew. Jesse takes him down with a shot to the forehead, and is left to die in an underwater tomb with no crew. Obviously she doesn’t, but the time alone sends her round the bend, and her trust in Queeg resulted in the violent deaths of her entire crew, so she’s got a thing against trusting metal. When she realizes Conner thinks the metal can be controlled, she trips out and storms off, snatching up Riley on her way to the nearest way-back-machine.
Eh? eh?? Also sets up an interesting foreshadow. If Weaver can reprogram by coming into contact with a chip…what happens when she and Cameron meet?? Hmmm??
One other story point Jesse’s trip back might help resolve is, why have all these people and Terminators from the future all picked this year in time to jump back to? Did Weaver follow Jesse? Let her gain access to a way-back-machine so that she could lead SkyNet to the Connors?
One thing that does worry me is that John seems to be pretty slow on the uptake about pretty much everything. Not a good sign for a future leader and strategic thinker.
I was sure he was going to twig to Riley’s use of the anachronistic phrase, “You’re all apples and carrots” that appeared in one of their very first conversations. As soon as he figures it isn’t Cameron who killed Riley, which should have been obvious immediately he saw the defensive wounds on Riley’s hands, it should click that Riley is not what she seemed and there’s, at the very least, the possibility of a third party or parties in play. As soon as John broaches his suspicion of that with Derek and Sarah then Derek should fess up about Jesse. It makes sense Derek keeps her from John et al now for security reasons (what they don’t know they can’t reveal under torture) but once John makes a case for a humans killing his girlfriend, who herself used strange phrases from the future, it should ring alarm bells with Derek (who it appears has picked up something from Jesse re the killing of Cameron theory she had so well thought out).
Also, we know where Cameron goes to at night. But why hasn’t one or all of Sarah, John, Derek followed her at least one time so’s they know? They can’t afford for Cameron to be a loose canon, whatever John thinks of her and they know, as a matter of fact, she’s as likely to lie as tell the truth - which means nothing she says is of any value.
I’m trusting Jesse will be revealed to be a lot more clued up on the mechanics of the time lines and time travel too: she shot the older version of Fischer to stop a Grandfather Paradox and/or to ensure the mission he was on went through? Her reticence re Judgment Day? Clearly quite apart from whatever was in the box she must, logically, be holding a lot of important cards close to her chest. (And I’m certainly all for keeping a close eye on Jesse.)
I think Weaver came back FARTHER into the past to amass a solid grip on Zeira Corp. and its technologies and holdings. She seemed to have been there longer than most Terms (not the 1920’s, of course).
It may be that Jesse just doesn’t like the fact that the emissary-in-the-box is a T-1001 and John would be willing to partner with such a group, which Cameron may be a part of. Hence, her meeting with Catherine… and not to fight.
Jesse’s shocked at John’s actions and it has made her question his judgment as a leader.
In fact, the liquid metal may have been given the go ahead, or feels the need to countermand Queeg’s orders.
T-1000 models are FAR more advanced and far more crafty than other Skynet made. They are living organism, as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZACpZzhFt8
well, heck. this explains a lot. It’s like they lifted this deleted scene for the basis of The Good Wound. Why didn’t they just say so??
Snake, I do see that side of the argument, and I remember that video about the making of TSCC. I’ve enjoyed sharing it with people when it first came out.
I always prefer to concentrate on the aspects of the show I do enjoy, and there are many. They didn’t even come close to losing me as a viewer. And I’ve been with it since the beginning.
My comments lately about the complainers were meant to point out the complaints have already been heard. Several times. Not that the points were totally invalid. Because to those viewers, they are not. I’m not sure who all checks in here at the blog but it’s obvious Josh & the others do hear what fans are saying overall. And they’ve already heard it.
There’s a lot to enjoy about this show now, at least for me. But as to the other side, as Zoe once said “Sir, I don’t disagree on any particular point”.
(Gina Torres)
I just don’t have those same complaints.
Al, that sounds like quite a prediction. You might be right! I’m anxious to see what happens.
I should be totally honest here too, it did take me a little longer to warm up to a few of the epsidoes this season, but not very long. Second or third viewing and I completely enjoyed them.
Gary:
One thing we can certainly agree on is that we’ll both be watching until they pull the plug which, I hope, is no time soon. There is much to enjoy here.
Yeah, I’m thinking there’s liquid metal in the box too. But that’s not what’s important now.
When John holds Riley’s hand, there’s gunk under her fingernails. Presumably that’s skin she scraped off of her attacker, right? Meaning the attacker should have fingernail scratches, right?
Time for John to ask Cameron to take off her clothes so he can give her a very close inspection. Very close.
Al that is awesome. I’ve never seen that video before, but I’ve really never searched for many clips related to the movies. Thanks for posting that. You’re right.
Al and Gary…
That’s why I consider the Extended Cut of T2 to be the definitive cut (sans the Future Coda sequence). James Cameron figured, just as Peter Jackson did, that the home video version could have a more fully fleshed out and differently paced story than the commercial movie version since they didn’t have to worry about the amount of screenings per day.
On “The Abyss” James thought that the extended scenes were so important to the story he had his editors HOT SPLICE them back into the original negatives AND paid ILM to finish all the visual effects shots! It made the extended cut of “The Abyss” THE CUT after the fact, rather than an HD home video edit with non-linear video editing equipment. I even got to see a 70mm blow up of “The Abyss” extended cut at a giant screen theater (when they were still being built) and it was fantastic!
Check out The Skynet Edition of T2 coming to Blu-ray, which will FINALLY have the extended cut in 1080p with a 6.1 discrete DTS Master Audio lossless soundtrack.
May 19th!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rFtR47BVh8
James Cameron is also supervising a full 4k resolution frame-by-frame digital restoration of “The Terminator” for Blu-ray (DTS/Lowry Digital is doing the work), which may be out late this or maybe next year!
Hey guys, i’ve got a very important question!!!!
I know, it could be off-topic, but did anyone of you understand, what riley’s star-tattoo meant???
Was it just there, because in the last episode sarah could identify her by the telling of her neighbour or does it have a “deeper” meaning? I asked, because cameron was so interested in it….i’m asking myself, if that was simply a way to “make conversation”, or/and scare the hell out of riley, or did she know, that in the future, that would be like allison’s bracelett?
i ask, because cameron then replies, that she would like to have a wolf or a tiger and in the next scene riley tries to kill herself……..so does anyone of you guys know something about it???
Would be cool!
thanks
We don’t know. It could just be a tattoo to indicate that yup, it was Riley who died. Or it may mean a marking for the other human resistance faction working against Connor.
I don’t know what else it might mean, but regarding the one scene with Cameron and Riley, Cameron actually did that to check Riley’s pulse. I’m not sure there was anything more to it than that. But we may see yet another connection later.
You know, if everyone (Sarah, John, Cameron, Derek) just sat down and had a conversation, they could figure out the whole Jesse thing. But I guess that’s the point. Sarah keeps saying, “it’s my loop”, but no one’s keeping anyone else in the loop.
Great episode. I like the specualtion that the box contains liquid metal, seems pretty plausible. I also started thinking when I saw the rubber skinned T-600(?) that looked was similar to the “dungeons and Dragons” one, that perhaps the box will have a tie in to whatever took place in the basement, like perhaps Skynet was conditioning humans to become sleeper agents who could be triggered by whatever was in the box, or that the box contains a weapon that could pernamently return reprogrammed T’s to their original mode and perhaps program humans…. I don’t think that Cameron would be in the box as it looked like the preview showed future Jesse telling Cameron what happened on the sub…
I liked that John seems to be growing up some in that he didn’t freak out when Sarah informed him that they were moving and that he gave Cameron the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically placing blame (like Sarah did) especially when they know that Riley told them that she was double crossed by someone she confided in so they know something’s rotten in Denmark….
The ep also showed that perhaps Ellison is figuring that there’s something off about Weaver since she was not upset that Savannah was missing and instead was gleeful that JH wanted “to play a game”. Odd that he isn’t concerned that if JH can control a building, what’s to stop him from trying to expand that control to beyond the bldg…? Oh the final 4 eps are gonna be great!!!!!!!
I need more guidance. Maybe Innocent or Gary or somebody can help.
If the machines had something in a box that they wanted delivered to John Connor, why were they depth-charging the sub en route to pick it up?
Seneca,
no one knows for sure who are those machines making the delivery of the box. They may be ‘Scrubs’ (reprogrammed robot/cyborgs) or a faction opposing Skynet. Both are likely options. It is doubtful that this is Skynet cunning.
The deep-charges attack though was from Skynet, no doubt, as the area was described as ‘Skynet territory’. A deviation of 300 miles off course by Quegg had brought the Jimmy Carter there.
I don’t think they explained it well enough or clearly enough during the episode, Seneca. I’ll watch it again.
Innocent and Dan,
Thanks.
Hey, you guys told us there’s gonna be more Cameron in the last 6, E17 was good; but E18…I just have to endure another episode of Cameron deficiency…Or I shouldn’ t be suprised, this episode was written by the one who had wrote “The good wound”, uh…
I have to ask this but TD had mentioned in the online chat that he had a very emotional exchange with riley in ep 18. Well I guess the only riley part he could have been talking about in this ep was the morgue scene but I didn’t think it was that emotional? I thought it just showed him being sorry and finally figuring it all out.
Or do you think that part was cut for time? Just wondering.
I have to agree with John Pate. I have never understood them not following Cameron one evening to see where she goes.
We only saw her with cuts after fighting a terminators between research. Yet Sarah says that has happened a number of times. So either Cameron is taking out terminators and has a lot more parts then what Sarah destroyed. Maybe they should ask her what she does at night!!!
Still liked S1 better however if you go back and rewatch certain eps you start to see the connections being formed leading up the last few eps of the season. Can’t wait to have S2 on DVD…I hate my VHS tapes!!!
And there better be a S3!!!! Can’t live without my TSCC.
Kea,
Think Blu-ray!
I mean if you haven’t spent money you probably don’t have (in this crap economy, who does except the big Wall Street tycoons and top banking/credit card executive scum who should really be in jail worrying about dropping their bars of soap in the shower rather than flying around in their private jets!!) on a 1080p television or projector and screen, and at least an inexpensive Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, or Panasonic Blu-ray player for “The Terminator” and the upcoming Skynet Edition of “T2″… and Season 1 of TSCC on Blu-ray…and the inevitable Season 2…
You just haven’t lived!
For you guys, you get Summer Glau and Lena Headey in 1080p! For you gals… Thomas Dekker and BAG in 1080p! The Fox HD broadcast is only 720p.
I gotta tout Blu-ray somehow.
Oh, and don’t forget the awesome A/V system to hear that crystal clear 24 bit, 8 channel audio! Well, just not on TSCC since WHV gives us cheapo lossy Dolby Digital 5.1instead! The buggers! If this was distributed on video by Fox at least we’d get 24 bit DTS-MA lossless audio.
I picked up a brand new Onkyo 805 THX Ultra2 receiver a few months back, as a tied me over upgrade, on clearance for $500 (over half off!) with the same processor chips and digital audio converters as a multi-thousand dollar Denon receiver, and I use it only as pre-amp/processor hooked to my outboard multi-channel power amplifier. It sounds great. There are also some really decent deals on good quality speakers and interconnect cables on-line too.
So, the price of admission for a better than commercial theater A/V experience isn’t THAT bad, considering. And if you do have the greenbacks to splurge a bit (and you’re a lucky so-n-so if you do), it can be downright jaw dropping.
———–
And I have to agree with you… what was the very emotional scene with Riley that Dekker was talking about? Must have been cut… or his definition of “emotional” is different from ours. Hmmm…. tis a puzzler.
And “emotional”, for those who don’t know, does not mean EMO-John in that negative sense that EMO is bandied about.
EMO means whiny, bitchy, mopey, do-nothing, moronic, clueless, un-inquisitive, shirk your responsibilities and run off to Mexico and get people hurt and/or killed for idiotic reasons kind of personalty traits that no one likes to see from one John Baum… I mean Connor.
This is a long shot but I wonder if he was talking about the scene he did with Summer using Riley’s voice. He was obviously agitated and that is an emotion after all. That was an eerie scene. And for some reason Riley’s voice didn’t grate on my nerves so much as it came from Camerons lips.
Snake,
That could very well be the case. That was well done, that scene.
Jeez, Cameron! Cut the poor boy some slack and at least tell him you love him in a less “oh my God!” manner (ie, in a very, non-machine emotional way… or in the voice of someone who just died).
Or grab him during one of his clueless moments, bang him gently up against a wall, and tell him: “John… just shut up and kiss me.”
Man, everybody would be rooting for Cameron then!
That would definitely clear matters up Dan.
I just rewatched that scene and it is obvious that Cameron is speaking for herself using Riley’s voice. There is no reason for her to be talking about her parents and the fact that she can’t get things out of her head unless she were trying to send a subtle message to John. She knows that he’s the only one on the phone so he should be able to tell that something isn’t quite right about that statement. Although he can be rather dense sometimes. It seems to me that these latent memories are holdovers from Allisons influence on her psyche. Obviously she has no parents and that should have triggered a response from JC. And the ILY comment was definitely from Cameron.
LOL Dan you and your Blu-ray!
I hate the fact that you have to buy a new DVD player for Blu-ray. My old one works just fine and I happily watched S1, plus the sets are double the price. And hey I just spent money on converter boxes!!! :)LOL!!! And we are not even going to talk about the regions they imposed around the world.
However I will support TSCC with the S2 DVD set!!!! And if they do bring out some merchandise such as action figures or an official shirt I’ll buy it.
But I must admit I can’t wait to buy the S2 set. I had a great story when I got my S1 set when it first came out. The cashier looked at the DVD set, grabbed it, held it high for all to see (there were people in line behind me) she turns around to her friend and yelled ‘you have got to watch this show. Its so cool’. So that’s one way to get the show advertised. LOL!!!
I’m still confused what else Cameron does at night besides go to college. Maybe she fights some terminators or is building a time machine or something like that.
I have no idea about the emotional scene. I remember thinking that’s it!?!?!? I really would like to know what Thomas was talking about. Like I said maybe it did get cut.
But Snake you bring up a good point that the phone call might be it. I just felt it had to be the most emotional thing he had done. I thought he was suppose to be in the scene with riley together. Again you can always miss read comments.
But maybe that is what he was talking about. I’m curious about that now.
I mean we still don’t know from that one interview SG, BAG and TD did why back in S1 when TD whispers to SG what his favorite line was out of Vick’s chip/the other ep title I don’t remember at the moment.
We need follow-up Q&A’s.
Kea, I have to agree with you about Blu-Ray. Even though I’m a techno geek I generally wait a few generations until I jump on a new technology. The price will come down in time.
Speaking of technology I recently saw a show called Wierd Connections. They actually documented an experiment where they grew rodent brain tissue onto a silicon substrate to create a hybrid chip that could be plugged into a flight simulator.
After about 20 minutes of learning this hybrid chip was actually controlling a military flight sim. Extrapolate that technology to Camerons current actions. Wouldn’t it be interesting if somewhere in her skull there was a part of Allisons brain that was alive and well and was interfaced with the rest of her neural net. As of this year it’s not only theoretically possible, it’s been done. Is that cool or what?
Great episode. I am sure that the second half will finish nicely. Great work again guys! I have a suspicion the Jesse is going to get caught, but we will see…
Just musing…
John and Cameron are having a real heart-to-heart about relationships after their bizarre phone conversation. Cam’s sitting on the edge of John’s cot watching him pace. They’ve been unpacking at their new place… a small, cramped apartment in a nondescript part of town.
John [flummoxed... he's not sure how to broach the hot button subject he's been skirting around for ages]: Cam… like you said… girls are… are…
Cameron: Complicated.
John: Yeah… that. And you are… um… you are…
Cameron: Very… very complicated.
John: I’m thinking “freaky,” but okay…
Cameron [slightly downcast]: I’m “freaky”?
John [seeing that he's touched "a nerve" and getting down at eye level to her]: Really, in the nicest sense possible.
Cameron [with a tinge of sadness]: I freak you out.
John: Remember our conversation… you said something… in Riley’s voice… Yeah, that kinda would fit the definition.
Cameron [looking away]: I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have. I should know better. I freak everyone out. Even you…
John [getting really close to Cameron, and gently turning her face to his; softly]: And yet, you’ve said it twice now.
Cameron: It?
John: No more games. No more lies. I want the truth. You know what I’m talking about. [going about it a different way] Why did you think Riley was all wrong for me? {he heard more of Cameron’s conversation with Riley than Cameron thought]
Cameron is silent and staring at John. Then she speaks…
Cameron [pushing John's words to Riley back in his face]: Because today is the day?
John [pausing]: Today is the day.
Cameron: Why would you want to hear it now? You think I lie.
John: Because… I’m ready to listen.
Cameron {also pausing]: Riley didn’t love you. She only said she did. She was all wrong for you… she was not what you need.
John looks even deeper at Cameron.
John: And why would you say that?
Cameron: I love you. [strong emphasis on "I"]
John: But… you’re a machine.
Cameron [as if it was as plain as the nose on his face]: I’m different. And I love you, John Connor. [the look in her eyes is not empty, not like Catherine's... there is a bright spark... an awareness lit from within... and John sees it]
John: I believe you.
Cameron: Why now?
John [with a slight smile]: Ask me again sometime. [he gets up slowly, and changes the subject, and holds out a hand to help Cameron up off the cot] Wanna help me sort my baseball cards?
Cameron [happier than she has ever been in her short life, accepts his helping hand, and walks over next to him]: Yes, but I still say Mickey Mantle is over rated. Babe Ruth had a candy bar named after him…
Snake I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who feels like that about Blu-ray.
See I’m one of those people who likes to take things apart and can usually figure out how to make things work.
Of course the price will come down.
I was talking to someone about technology and we were comparing the VCR vs. Beta system.
VCR won, and the price slowly came down. And might I add the first VCR I had was quality. Had it over 10 years never a problem. Now they break in less then a year.
VCR vs. DVD…DVD wins and the prices came down. What’s ironic the cheapest DVD players can usually play international DVD’s.
Same with HD vs. Blu ray. But I am interested to see how Blu-ray will take off in this type of economy but that is for a different discussion.
WOW that sounds amazing. And that really does plug into Cameron’s current actions and all the previous comments about being able to download a human brain into a chip (the Japanese guy said that).
If they would tie that into the show then that would be so cool.
You may get a job on this show yet Dan.
Funny you should mention Beta Kea. That is where I learned my lesson. I bought the first Hi-Fi Beta available from Sony back in the day ( paid a fortune for it too.). Thier technology was superior but Sony screwed themselves on the licensing agreements. That screwed everyone else who threw in with them. That is why I wait a while until I see where the market is going first. I still sell old beta tapes to the pros in the industry. It’s still used by them because the bandwidth is so much better but commercially it’s a dead format.
Kea, I might add that I’m still using that old beta that I purchased in 1986. It still works like the day I bought it.
Great ep, as always!
I know Beta is dead commercially but I did not know that pros in the industry still use it. Learn something new everyday.
WOW Snake that’s amazing that your still using you old beta. See that was quality. Like I said my first VCR lasted well over 12 years. It just gave out one day. I miss it. It was expensive when it came out, and tapes weren’t cheap either but talk about quality. VCR’s now a days last less then a year. And tapes forget it. I’ve had more snap or chewed up on me then I care for. And its so hard to get just a VCR now a days.
I’m actually looking into the DVR recorders at the movement because I have to transfer a lot of my old tapes that are barley hanging in there.
Well look at the turn vinyl records has made. You go from these large records, to smaller ones, to tapes to Cds which in a way is a new form of vinyl.
It all goes back to its roots.
Yes I know this has nothing to do with TSCC but its just interesting to see the progression technology takes.
And since I feel I need to make a TSCC reference look at the progression of the terminators we have seen in the show. Rubber guy, the suicide chip, Vick the T888, Weaver, Cameron, JH. Its interesting to see.
Very cool, Snake. Very cool.
Yeah, they’ve been experimenting with nerve and brain cells living on circuitry for a while now. I didn’t realized just how far they’ve come. Unreal.
—
Kea,
I don’t know what kind of budget you have, but here are a couple killer deals I found. I do home theaters as a side business, so I like to think that I’m up on a lot of the tech. stuff. Blu-ray has a more open region coding system, with some studios allowing region free playback without any hassles as they are all encoded the same way: 1080p (most movies and HDTV shows), 1080i or 720p (for stuff shot on HDCams) with the country’s player models converting as necessary. I have discs from the UK and Australia (that happen to have better audio specs. than the U.S. versions) that play just fine on my PS3. Japan is also now in the same region as the U.S.
An excellent Bonus-View enabled Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu-ray/DVD player (original MSRP of $600, now $284 with free shipping). Its decoded Blu-ray image quality is one of the best currently available in a reasonably priced unit. Firmware upgradeable. BD-Live Web capability is not needed and is over rated IMHO.
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PIOBDP51FD
—-
(TSCC Season 1 Blu-ray of TSCC… $26.99 and even less from some Amazon Market resellers)
http://www.amazon.com/Terminator-Connor-Chronicles-Complete-Blu-ray/dp/B00168HARG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1237190072&sr=8-4
—-
(Terminator 2 Blu-ray Skynet Edition… May 19th… the extended cut with 6.1 DTS-MA Lossless Audio and extras… $19.99)
http://www.amazon.com/Terminator-Judgment-Day-Skynet-Blu-ray/dp/B001RIY4WE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1237190532&sr=1-2
Just as an example, I got all three Rambo movies (don’t like the fourth one… too gory) on Blu-ray at Amazon for $10 each. I got a three-disc Wall*E Blu-ray set for $25.
Blu-ray, especially on-line, can be pretty darn competitive with DVD if you watch the sales.
—-
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http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=SAMHL61A750
—-
Bluejeanscable.com (my first choice) and Monoprice.com (my second) have excellent, well made interconnect cables and speaker wire for A LOT less than Monster Cable. A LOT less.
Just wanted to show you that it’s not as expensive as you would first think.
Don’t know why I didn’t think of it before and I don’t recall reading any of the posts where someone mentioned it, but why is Cameron acting damaged? If the shrapnel took out one chip, doesn’t she have two more fully functional chips? Triple 8s only need one of their three chips to operate at full capacity and Cameron is supposedly an even more advanced model. Which leads to some more questions. Crowmartie is taken out with only one shot. Even if you could line up the shot to take out two chips, which it doesn’t look like Cameron did, wouldn’t you need to get at least one more shot to take out the third chip? And Derrick takes out another triple eight with only one shot. And when a triple eight is chasing Derrick, as I recall Cameron takes the terminator down and then they remove only one chip to deactivate him. Maybe the future has been changed since the beginning of the series and now triple 8s only have one chip?
Can someone enlighten me?
And Dan, I usually think your imagined scenes between John and Cameron are a little sappy, but I actually liked your last post as believable–though probably in a lot different direction than you’re thinking. I’m recalling Vic’s Chip. The Terminator says all the right words, provides all the right moves and romance, and even buys his wife cruise tickets. But because the mission goals get met before the cruise date arrives, she never gets to use the tickets because with the mission accomplished, the terminator simply reaches over and breaks her neck.
As an infiltrator, Cameron appears to have been programmed with everything she needs to attract John’s attention as demonstrated in the very first episode of season one. That seems like the most likely possibility, but I guess another is that John of the future programmed her to be in love with him, which would perhaps explain why she vacillates and at times doesn’t follow Future John’s orders when confronted with Present John’s orders and pleas. However, as lonely as John of the future might be, he just doesn’t seem to be kinky enough to mess with her programming that way. I will grant you that Cameron is suppose to be special, but the writers have done precious little to show exactly what that is supposed to mean. I’m just saying that if you look at Catherine Weaver, it doesn’t appear that Skynet has invested any effort into creating artificial feelings even in it’s most advanced models. But hey, I just had one more thought. It would be like John Conner when he scrubbed Cameron to have turned off her read only mission parameters and restarted her active neural network. When that happened, she might have developed a flutter
Get it, a flutter for John–ha ha. Okay, never mind. It’s late and I’m going to bed.
PS – sNaKeBiTe, thanks for the Jameron explanation.
Lee… and Snake…
Thanks for not thinking this little tit for tat dialog was too sappy. I wouldn’t call myself a writer… I just dabble with whatever comes off the top of my head at the moment it hits me. I guess that’s the same as blogging. Rough drafts put out for all to see.
At least we’re not “Twittering.” That just seems… sorry… dumb and pointless (did I mention I’m ooooooold!). Leven and Hadley, don’t hunt me down and kill me, please!!! LOL!
As for Cameron… at least in James Cameron’s head… Terminators CAN evolve and can value, especially when their chips are switched over from read-only mode. Skynet evolved. As Mr. Cameron said: tin-men can find their hearts. Their neural-net brains are based off… our human brains.
Love is valuing someone greatly…. sometimes above and beyond yourself. Arnold valued John and respected Sarah.
As for physical love… Cameron was moved when they held hands. Contact comfort. All advanced life forms need that for proper development. They are left alone without it and they go crazy for want of affection. Animal (and we humans are animals too) behavioral studies have shown it to be true.
What did Andy Goode say? Skynet was looking for something he didn’t know how to give it, and it became angry and scared and confused… it went mad. I say it was love and comfort that it was looking for and reassurance.
And Snake and Kea,
I remember Betamax fondly before I got my first VHS Hi-Fi machine with saved up paper route money (and then laserdisc players for widescreen movies like Star Wars! I still have my two LD players). If those old Beta machines would stop working… they worked great as massive door stops!!
Sorry guys, Cameron is a machine - it can only be “love.” Part of what love is are physiological responses that Cameron can’t possibly have. Another part are plans for the future that Cameron can’t possibly make. John and Cameron are the star-crossed lovers to end all star-crossed lovers! For some definition of “love” that is.
Spook! The captcha for this comment was “Steel growth”… maybe Skynet is watching!!
It just strikes me: So, the Connors are moving… What will happen to the bloody message on their garage wall?
Bloody message gets photographed and then ‘chlorined’ into biotrace oblivion.
Not a bad stretch of imagination Dan, quite entertaining. Couldn’t John tell her that he loves her back instead of being a self-satisfied prat who ‘allows’ her to take part into HIS stuff.
I like Snake idea that a significant part of Allison’s brain lives in Cameron. Imagine this now: Cam turns really bad toward the end to the season and there’s no choice but to trigger the kill switch (by either JC or Sarah, both alternatives have huge development potential). I think my heart just broke while writing that. Now Cam placed a small amount of explosive near her chip (inside the seal would do) that should be enough to destroy it… but not destroy Allison! Some time passes as the Connors can’t burn Cam’s body immediately, reboot and in Cameron there’s only Allison left.
I’ll let you imagine the coming back home scene.
@Lee:
That the T-888 do have two more back up CPUs was only stated in the “Sarah Connor Chronicles: Behind the Scenes featurette”, which was done around the Pilot. They may have screwed this idea later, because it didn’t fit so well storywise. And you have to consider, that Cameron is NOT a T-888, she’s a different, yet unknown model.
About the new episode, it was “okay”. I didn’t like Cameron’s reactions, especially the phone call, she should have been more careful and not twist the knife in John’s wound caused by Riley’s death. It felt like, she was begging John to push the detonator button(s) and not like a good way to show her “feelings” for him. I was like “omfg, don’t do that, girl!!” About the rest, the pace felt pretty slow again, too much meaningless dialogues going on, but I’ll better wait for the second part to get the full picture. But Jesse pushing her bedside lamp again wasn’t exactly a mind blowing cliffhanger of the sorts.
But I have no illusions here, this show is not a LOST, which absolutely blows your mind away every single week (it really does, the 5th season is just unbelievable epic, I’m totally stunned after every new episode, you people should watch this stuff). Still Terminator SCC is one of my favorite shows and I really want it to go into a 3rd season, even if its just because I need my weekly dosis of Summer Glau’s awesomeness and her character Cameron is the best character in televison/movie since River Tam. ;D So, I put my hope in the final 4 episodes, preview for next week definitely looks very promising.
The discussion of VHS/Beta reminds me of one of my favourite scenes from S1, where Cameron is walking through the room full of “primitive” artificial intelligence, and both she and the facial-recognition computer recognize one another at the same time, but at completely different levels.
Cameron is 3-D laser scanned bio-chemical optical storage media by comparison to VHS and Betamax. And yes, that optical disc media is in development! It may be the next thing after Blu-ray.
And John Pate… this is science fiction, after all, so if James Cameron can let Terminators love and hate and have other growing emotions… then I’d say she loves John. I know, I know JF is not Mr. Cameron, but I’d like to think that Josh took the originator of the Terminator characters’ ideas to “heart.”
On that note about Terminators:
Talking Heads: “Road to Nowhere”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChU_gVnLYk
Innocent,
Thank you, and I was just going off the John Connor we’ve been seeing lately for most of S2.
He does sometimes seem like a world-class prat… doesn’t he?
TourianTourist,
I agree with you. S3 must be MIND BLOWING. Not hmmm… just “okay” or “good,” but jaw droppingly amazing if we are to survive.
For Cameron…
Fatboy Slim & Macy Gray:
“Demons”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWDH3n7VZc4
For John Henry…
STYX:
“Mr. Roboto”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBtZk13miAE
@Dan H - no, one of the great things about TSCC is that the writers do seem to have put quite a bit of thought into how different machine intelligence would be to the human thing and just what effect a machine intelligence simulating a human might have on the human observers.
You guys are letting the fact that Summer Glau is the beyond awesome babe of a mans wildest dreams (yeah, I really like Summer) cloud your judgment - which, indeed, is something that affects the John Connor / Cameron dynamic.
Think back to the ending of “Self Made Man” when Cameron came to the door with her donuts but it was a new girl. The way she seamlessly switched on the charm for her “new friend” cleared up any doubts I had that Cameron was connecting on some kind of emotional level with her lonely disabled “friend.” It was genius. It was a Terminator and its mission. (Summer played that whole ep awesomely, I can’t imagine who else could have made it work a fraction as well.) See also, “Vick’s Chip.”
Even if Cameron, a machine, can love - for some new and improved definition of love - it won’t be remotely like what Alison Young would experience because Cameron only has the appearance of being human, not the substance. It’s a matter of fact - Cameron cannot love, Cameron is metal. Cameron told John, “I can’t be happy, I’m a machine.” Cameron has sensations but not feelings.
These issues have been mentioned WRT to John Henry - about the embodiment of consciousness, it’s why Weaver used Cromartie’s body.
Also, riddle me this grasshopper: Cameron’s chip can be placed in different bodies or even computer systems (remember the traffic light controls) - will John still love her then? Cameron’s body can get another chip - will John still love her then? Cameron’s chip can be wiped and reset - will John still love her then?
Cameron is a machine. Haven’t you guys been paying attention? Summer has portrayed that so brilliantly, right down to the walk!
The only thing that makes sense is that when Cameron tells John she loves him it is solely to further her mission… whatever that actually is…
Cameron said as much this episode, that telling John “she” loved him in Riley’s voice made his reaction all the better and furthered the mission.
Now, for sure, since Cameron lies to everyone all the time as it suits the mission nothing “she” says can be believed unless it is corroborated by other sources of information - so, in fact, there’s no point in John even talking with “her” except when Cameron has specific items of information, such as locations and times or somesuch. It would be nice, IMHO, to see John starting to take that attitude with Cameron as a sign he is catching on to the nature of the beast. As John groks what a Terminator really is he should become more distant with Cameron, not less, and Cameron might well try amping up the charm with him. Or, even better, they might have an honest conversation laying it all out and where Cameron says she can be a programmable sex-toy… yeah, OK, I know, family viewing…
I think John is (or rather should be or become) smart enough to understand that . Maybe he sent Cameron, the beautiful young girl he knew his younger self would fall for, back in time to make that very point evident to his future self - in a suitably time travel paradoxical flow of information.
Skynet and Terminators are the machine, the very antithesis of human - that is the classic science fiction trope underlying the original Terminator film. There is some suggestion they are going to meld the human and the machine in “Terminator 4″ to make something else - and that opens a whole new can of worms. I don’t see any evidence having been laid in TSCC that Cameron is that kind of tech - and, in any case, I would argue that a human brain in a robot body is a machine not a human being because the brain isn’t really separate from the body - but that would take a course of lectures to explain!
@everybody:
“It can’t be bargained with… it doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”
Hy guyz,
i have this thought in my head and wanna tell to you:
by Wikipedia, John Connor was Born on 28th february 1985…
Ok, in TSCC he jumped from 1997 to 2007…i think it’s correct…
But future’s John didn’t jump ! So, John who sent Cameron back to the past is…mumble… 42 years old ! In 2027 he’s 42 years old. Right?
So, what’s the problem, you will say…
The problem is this : how old Allison is? 20? 25?
Ok…so..i’m just thinking about this: in TSCC Terminator 3 has never happened…no wife for John, no family.
This is what Cameron talks about when she says that future’s john is completely alone.
So, what is Cameron for future John? A …lover ?!? I don’t think so. It would be very pathetic! Also if it could be an interesting “end” (a man who had life destroyed by machines but he fall in love with one of them…)
She’s like a…daughter? A little sister? Maybe Allison Knew john, maybe she was his girlfriend, but it seems really absurd to me !
i would like next episodes talk more about this!
Am i forgwtting anythink about this? Please help me out !!
At least Franz is getting it, so it’s not been totally lost on everybody.
The real question is: what is in the box that, so far as it seems to us now, made Jesse so convinced that the future John Connor’s (unspecified as to the nature of) close relationship with the future Cameron such a transcendental threat that Jesse must move through time, and sacrifice Riley, to save John Connor from that future relationship?
Does what (future) John believes about what is in the box versus what Jesse sees / believes is in the box give them some plausible reasons for different takes on the matter, such that we may have to take sides?
Will Derek side with Jesse or John when the box is revealed? Does Cameron actually know anything about the box and its contents, either now or in the future?
Whatever is in the box has got to be totally awesome (or, more correctly, the ramifications of what are in the box) - and will surely determine whether TSCC deserves an S3 in the fan’s eyes, quite apart from the general viewing public.
@ John Pate and Franz
Everything you say is right and logic leads from those facts to your conclusions. Yet your conclusions are wrong, simply because you are leaving important facts out.
In ‘Self Made Man’ it was awful strategy from Cam to let her friend know that his cancer had returned: convincing him to get new treatments meant losing a valuable contact with no assurance of replacing him. This was bad for the mission and yet she willingly chose this option.
In ‘Allison from Palmdale’, as long as the personality of Allison was predominant, Cam actually did feel all the emotions and the confusion that she expressed. There was no purpose to her cries but to express her feelings.
I believe that Cam is also Allison and so that she is much more than a simple machine, although she is that, that’s for sure…
When Sarah burned those spare parts Cameron should have killed her. Sarah has gone from being a liability to directly threatening Cameron’s mission — whatever that mission might actually be.
Honestly, if Cameron doesn’t kill Sarah soon I’m gonna quit watching this show. Is Cameron a terminator or not?
@Innocent
“Alison from Palmdale” was Cameron malfunctioning - as a method of giving us the story of the original Alison Young. It doesn’t tell us about Cameron, damaged chip or not. (It’s a stretch to posit that a physically damaged chip will, in some ways, function in a more sophisticated manner than an intact one, don’t you think?)
I don’t buy your logic re “Self Made Man.” It makes just as much sense to assume that Eric having his cancer return unexpectedly could compromise Cameron’s access to the library and by having him restart his treatment early he could continue working there. Even be grateful to Cameron for saving his life. Cameron had invested time in befriending Eric and any replacement for Eric is an unknown quantity. If your logic were correct, and Cameron really cared about Eric, why hasn’t she followed up on him? No, the whole payoff of that episode was that Cameron’s behaviour was revealed to be her playing Eric to further her mission. In fact, the questions she asked Eric about him being broken were an attempt to give her more information about dealing with her damaged chip in such a way it would not impair the mission.
It’s true that “Alison From Palmdale” did raise questions about how Terminators (or anyway, the Cameron version of Terminators) are programmed. The scene in AFP where Cameron appeared to kill Alison looked like a scene where Cameron was verbally interrogating Alison for information. However, the other scenes in AFP implied that transference of actual memory, or at least, that some kind of very sophisticated model of Alison’s memories and personality, had been programmed into Cameron. It was not clear from AFP how that had been achieved and whether that involved some kind of actual physical interface between Alison’s brain and a chip.
This is an issue that could be re-visited by the writers and it isn’t unambiguous as to whether Cameron killed Alison or rendered her unconscious… prior to dissecting her brain perhaps?
@Innocent
Even if (some of) Alison’s brain tissue is in Cameron’s skull somewhere, does that make her Alison? I say no. If some kind of sophisticated model or simulation of Alison resides in Cameron somewhere (as implied by AFP), does that make her Alison? I say no.
Is simulated love (inside a machine) real? Well, there’s an argument to have - given philosophers, artists, and poets et al have been wrestling with the question, “What is love” for millennia.
I’d say a simulation, or a model, isn’t real - especially when you’re talking about love!
John,
You’re a machine hater! Fie on you! Fie! A pox on your house! LOL!!
Somebody didn’t watch T1 and T2.
Cameron is sentient. She’s convinced that John loves her (even if there hasn’t been a moment where John came right out and said it to her face), but doesn’t know how to express it back yet in a manner that will get John to respond in kind. She does it in her unique way and that is not yet palatable to THIS John; it’s spooking him out. That’s why she says that John loves her too. She knows him more than he knows himself.
It’s making him question his ideas of what it means to be a machine.
You also ignore Sarah’s dialog in “The Demon Hand” on THIS particular show, not even the movies written by James Cameron himself. Sarah is talking about a machine who is like a human, and has crossed over and you can no longer tell where the human begins and the machine ends. They aren’t LIKE us, they ARE us.
@innocent and john Pate
I don’t think Allison’s brain is somewhere in Cameron…
maybe her thoughts and feelings.
It didn’t explain how them get into Cam’s head, i don’t think it’s only a simulation: how can you simulate something that you don’t know ?!? Or something that you don’t feel ? That you don’t have?
Are we sure that Cameron really kill Allison? I say this because , about Allison, we have only the 2nd season’s 4th amazing episode …nothing more !
I don’t know if Cameron is able to realize that she killed a girl and took her place.
What about this?
If she feels fear, feels angry about Allison’s memories, can she feel anything similar thinking about Allison’s death?
Does she feel this only when she have a malfunction? But she’s malfunctioning right now…she’s covering her feelings? Is she lying ?
Does John Connor know Allison? i think for sure.
What are his feelings about her? And are Cameron’s feelings Allison’s ones?
Remember…Cameron knows death. In Samson & Delilah she told Sarah about not letting John recover her from “switchin off” evermore.
She tried death and she was freaked out. In her way.
Does she know love? Not for now, i think.There is no “love” in her behaviour. Simply she is totally loyal to her mission (protecting John). And giving him “support” when he’s alone, in danger, angry or confused.
But this is not an automation: Cameron really understand john, she know him very well. The future John, i mean. This John is something that we too really don’t know yet.
“Love” could be the happy ending for this saga: a machine that understand what love means to humans.
So she would understand what are human behaviours causes and nature.
Probably, she would understand that there’s no place for her in human society.
But something’s happening. She started not following programmation, and expressing her thoughts.
This makes her weird in confront of others ( a thinking Terminator…how useful !).
But, as you suggest..some answers are in the box…under the sea…next friday !
Liquid Metal? Mmmhh…i don’t know ! But Is Jesse talking to Cameron or Allison in the promo’s end of 2nd part ?! What do you think?
in the end…I think that Uncle Derek won’t take the right decision for now.
See ya
To quoth The Beatles:
All you need is love…
@ John Pate
Bone cancer is no small illness. It put Eric in his wheelchair and add to that that he was to go on chemotherapy with all its side effects: there was no way that he could keep working under those conditions.
I never contended that the damaged chip functioned in any better way than the undamaged one… I do say though that it is plausible that the damage allowed the Allison side of Cam to express itself. It doesn’t matter, but for the techies, how Allison’s personnality got into Cam but there is no doubt that it overtook Cam for a time: it’s there and it is much more than a memory, en engram or some imprint since it is able to behave autonomously and in a coherent manner, to respond and adapt to new circumstances.
Cam has expressed surprise, pain, sorrow, futility, curiosity for many things unrelated to the mission. She has acted quirky, she had herself aborted her mission to kill John in S&D. You know that I could go on and on with examples: there’s a lot that can’t be explained by the behavior we expect from a machine.
Anyway, all this is just fun speculation. This way maybe we won’t die from the long wait between episodes and lower the ratings even more.
‘night
@ Franz
The how did Allison or her personality get into Cam is irrelevant. I found the idea of living tissue on circuits appealing because it has potential to evolve in unexpected manners, as humans do.
I am pretty sure that Allison was killed by Cam: she made an awful ‘crack’ noise and quite a thud. Yet, those resistance people are very resilient.
As to what Cam feels: even if I conceede that all there is of Allison in Cameron is memories, AFP prooved that those are perfect, complete memories of what a human being feels, not just a bag of tricks to fake it. One day or another Cam will be able to recall them at will and integrate them to her personality. They will make her more human although she never will be one.
Derek will take some convincing but he’ll get there. Too many people here or in the forums equates the Derek/Jesse relation to mere sex but there is a lot of love there, war time love but love nonetheless. Anyone who has been in a bad relationship knows that, no matter how clever, courageous or autonomous one is, seeing clearly is the hardest thing to do.
I really enjoy watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Most of the shows have had a good story and keep you wanting more. I like all the characters on the show but I am especially interested Summer Glau’s character, Cameron. I can’t help but notice the hints that John (Thomas Dekker) might physically attracted to Cameron. What teenage boy wouldn’t be? After Riley got killed she seems to be the only girl in town. I wonder if any of the future shows will explore this. There seems to be a mystery when it comes to Cameron. Is she more then she seems to be? Can she really feel anything? Is she capable of love? I was looking for a place on this website to show what a big fan I am of Summer Glau. You’re so Cute! I hope your show gets another season and isn’t cancelled.
Did anyone else catch that really cool ‘So FOX’ commercial during House tonight? It had all these actors from FOX shows laughing. TSCC has 4 actors of its actors appear in it.
What’s interesting it started out with TSCC’s LH walking, you can see her tattoo on her arm.
It shows SM at a photo shoot.
You have TD and LH. At a photo shot. He has his arms around her and a gun.
And of course TD and SG just laughing.
It was nice. Went by way to fast but nice.
John Pate I have to disagree. This is sci-fi…anything can happen…and that’s what I want to see on this show a cyborg in love with a human and vice versa.
Its different, its being handled very well by the show so far…and why not go for it. I personally think it makes the show stand out. If there was nothing between John or Cameron I might not be watching. It actually keeps me glued to the TV set…among other things.
And while were at it why do you assume anyone who is a Cameron fan or a Jameron fan is a guy?!?!
I love seeing strong female characters on shows (Yes Girl power)…and lets face it you have two actors that have great chemistry with each other why would I not want to see that progress?
You are well aware that women also watch this show right?!? Female over here.
I think it makes the show more human and blurs the lines that people are fighting for in the future.
So Rock on John and Cameron!!!
Pete I’m pretty sure Cameron has spare parts hidden in others places. She does not seem to be the type to ‘put all her eggs in one basket‘.
LOL thanks for the help Dan.
Interesting that Blu-ray has a more open region coding systems. I’m actually looking more into the European ones. IE I want movies from Europe I can’t get in the US. Specifically Germany.
My budget at the moment for technology …ummm it starts with a Z and ends with an O!!! Sadly!
Kea,
Yes, there are European movie Blu-rays available to play in U.S. players.
It all depends on the distributor and whether they have English subtitles available or not.
Some vary in quality if they come from small labels.
http://www.blu-ray.com
http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.dvdtalk.com
Some forum sources.
Criterion is coming out with an aggressive slate of foreign and classic films on Blu-ray too. Most of their discs that I’ve bought so far have been excellent. Obviously, it all depends on the film source and the condition it’s still in. They do as good a digital clean up as possible and use LOSSLESS audio at all times. Their extras are usually very good and very extensive.
http://www.criterion.com/library/bluray
I have The Lives of Others (won the Oscar last year for Best Foreign Language Film from Germany) and Kung Fu Hustle (a wild and wacky comedy wire-fu film from Stephen Chow) on Blu-ray (both from Sony) and they’re pretty good quality (since the source interpositives are in decent shape). The films themselves are excellent. KFH has a very aggressive Chinese 5.1 surround mix and it reminds me of Looney Tunes meets The Matrix meets dance movies. In fact, the fight scenes are by the same choreographer.
I can’t wait for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon on Blu-ray. It should be phenomenal.
Thanks for the information and links Dan.
Adding in something TSCC, come on S3.
Speaking of Foreign films and the Criterion collection and Blu-ray…
If you are a lover of film like I am, you MUST do yourself a favor and grab a copy or rent a copy of “Chungking Express.”
It’s a beautiful, lyrical, and uplifting Hong Kong movie from the early 90’s. Very Western in its style and approach, but with that mystical and authentic Oriental flavor.
http://www.criterion.com/films/226
The Blu-ray version has a DTS-Master Audio 5.1, 24 bit sound remix. It’s subdued since it’s very dialog heavy, but still effective and creative in its use of the 6 channels of audio.
Kea,
My pleasure.
Any other questions about this stuff… feel free…
I’d love to help.
Agreed Kea, one of the joys of Sci-fi is that anything is possible as long as it’s plausible. The writers have done an excellent job of making a relationship plausible.
Summer has done a masterful job in keeping just enough spark there to keep us guessing.
You have to figure she loves him since she gave him her remote. Nothing says I love you like giving up the remote.
Snake, on that we can agree on.
RE: Snake I love sci-fi. Huge STTNG fan, Birds of Prey, Cleopatra 2525, Moonlight, Firefly, TSCC just to name a few.
The writers have done a fantastic job with the Jameron relationship. As you said their relationship is plausible and I love it. It all falls back on the writing as well as the chemistry that is there.
I agree Summer has done an amazing job. Her characterization of Cameron was why I watched the second ep actually and got hooked from there.
I actually have to thank TSCC for leading me to Firefly. Had it not been for TSCC and all the message boards comments about River Tam…I might never have discovered Firefly. So thank you TSCC.
“You have to figure she loves him since she gave him her remote. Nothing says I love you like giving up the remote.-Snake”
LOL you guys and your remote.
I never thought about the kill switch as being a remote. Good point. Giving him the remote now that is true love. LOL!!!
Hey Dan any DVR recorder advice? Just thought I’d ask. Perhaps you better put it on wiki…I would hate to spam the blog.
I agree, giving John the remote was very powerful and interesting, especially if Cameron really planted a charge in her head–or was this just another lie? In all the episodes where they remove the chip, the chip is attached to the socket cover and comes out when the cover is removed causing instant deactivation. Cameron couldn’t have planted the charge without help. Although I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be glad to help her yank her chip, I’m pretty sure John is the only person her programming allows to remove the chip. Since he didn’t help her, she didn’t plant a charge, unless someone can show where another access point exists. Cameron is an armored tank and there is nothing I’ve seen that indicates there is another access point to the cranium. Cromartie demonstrated that a terminator can function quite nicely with the head and body detached, but it still appears that the only access to the chip is through the chip port.
Same here Kea, I never heard of Firefly before I started reading the blog here. A few weeks ago I came down with a cold and I spent the weekend watching every episode of Firefly and then went out and picked up a copy of Serenity at the vid store.
It’s not my favorite Sci-fi in the verse but it’s definitely a strong entry.
As far as the remote goes Cam really didn’t have to go the explosives route. JC probably would have been happy with a mute button.lol (sorry, couldn’t resist a little chauvinist humor)
Remember tho guys - the title of the show is, “The Sarah Connor Chronicles.” Fascinating tho Cameron is, the show is about humans and their reaction to unstoppable killing machines exterminating humanity, and Sarah’s journey in particular. Unless the ratings pick up in an entirely unexpected fashion, we’re unlikely to see S3, let alone a spin off series!
I personally think it will be a mistake if the writers make it turn out that Cameron - yes, an automaton, exactly the correct word - loves JC in some meaningful way. Obviously, humans can form all sorts of pathological attachments to inappropriate things - that’s humans malfunctioning! But a machine can’t love because it doesn’t have feelings and emotions which are part of our biology and not abstracts that run as algorithms in a finite state machine.
Cameron is a simulacrum of life - a Golem (I wonder if the writers will run with that mythology).
I know Summer Glau is the shiniest babe ever but I think that’s stopped you guys thinking this thing thru properly!
@ innocent
i think , like you do, that Allison’s memories will have important effects about Cameron’s personality.
The question is that Cameron’s chip is not a reading-only, but it could elaborate feelings and thoughts. I talk about her chip as i talk about a human’s brain, because, in facts, chip is Cameron’s brain.
And here there’s an important point of this show: we started referring to Cameron as a “killer computer”…but we’re understanding that she’s a computer with a thinkin chip. A chip that learns an understands. Here is the point of the question. I think she’s going to self -determination.
About Samson and Delilah, i don’t know what kind of love Cam was talking about when John switched off her chip. Maybe in the end she realizes that too…
Also it seems obvious to me that in the end of 2nd season, something important is gonna happen about Cameron personality…
Jesse / Derek story is a love and war story, with hard struggle for survive. They will never be happy until machines will be defeated, they will be always hunted. And that’s terrible.
i don’t think anything else, but in this case i think that “love” will be an hard problem for Derek to solve about Riley’s story. He will find that his girlfriend killed Rileys, and this is not forgettable by John i think…
And we don’t know what jesse is thinking about present John, What if she try to kill him? She’s acting exactly like a machine…killing people for her purposes.
Will be able Derek’s love to put her back?
Friday please come soon !!
I am not a Jameron and never will be. I’d hate a relationship with Cameron myself: she is cold as ice, she has been, until lately, a cold blooded murderer, her blank face bears no more attraction for me than any statue, her gait is ridiculous…
This said, T:SCC is a sci-fi show and as such it has to go beyond the common conclusions allowed by the present state of science. It is invented reality. Why would it be so important for Cameron to be a pure machine?
In all logic, the fight with the machines can’t be won. There always will be someone building something that’ll evolve into some version of Skynet. That is natural evolution of life on Earth (in the mythological context of Terminator: I personally doubt that silicon or another technology is going to replicate the human reality ever). The continued war leads to disaster for all that is human as we’ve seen over and over. The solution can only be co-existence.
A sci-fi show is a metaphor. Although it may seem rationally based it has a part of fantasy, rationalized fantasy. John, you have strong reasoning skills but they don’t apply here I think.
@Innocent. At its heart, surely the “Chronicles” is about the trials and tribulations of the human spirit. About the difference between the human and the machine and how, in fighting the machine, you risk the loss of your humanity and may become the very thing you are fighting against.
The danger that Jesse sees, perhaps, is that John has/will forget/never learn this. The irony is that she becomes a ruthless killing machine trying to stop this happening.
This isn’t simply a trope from SF: this is the human spirit against fate, against the machinations of the implacable gods, against the uncaring mechanical workings of the Universe - and, yes, the search for true love. It is the oldest story.
IMHO, the freakiest Cameron moment so far, by far, was Derek watching Cameron dance - for herself - in “The Demon Hand,” after she’d been a calculating, remorseless, killing machine throughout the whole episode.
Cameron is ageless and potentially immortal. If Cameron can dream then those dreams are not humanity’s dreams and humanity has no place in them.
@Lee:
Cameron said, she planted an explosive in her skull near her chip, not on her chip. So, this doesn’t mean, she had to remove the chip to do so.
maybe cameron’s in the box…
Jennymegan,
The sticker on the side of the box would then read:
“Some Assembly Required.”
Either that, or Cam is a contortionist of the highest magnitude!
Kea… will do!
John and Innocent:
I think you are looking at this from the wrong side. It isn’t so much about what Cameron feels as it is about what JC needs. Remember the movie Cast Away. Tom Hanks created a complete persona for a soccer ball in order to combat the unbearable solitude. We know JC will suffer from that same condition. Here he has a walking, talking, thinking companion that he can trick his mind into believing to be real. And, in many ways she is. Without anything else to hold on to JC may have wanted to cultivate this relationship earlier in his life for any number of reasons and so he sent Cameron back to create the bond at a younger age.
It may not be exactly what he wants but it allows him to survive the torment of life alone.
Oh, and Kea, what’s your “handle” on the Wiki? THX!
Did anyone notice, the guy and his buddies that Jessi got into a fight with at the bar is her crew on the sub, even the terminator??? Did these people come back in time and are working with Jessi? What does this mean???? Sounds huge!!!!!
@snake, ahead of you - see my previous comment, timecode March 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pm, re speculation on the issue as to why future John sent Cameron back.
I guess I misunderstood you John. I thought you meant he sent her back to immunize himself from her charms rather than use her as a surrogate for human companionship.
What if future Jesse fancied future Alison ? Or what if future Alison was JC`s girl and Jesse fancied JC ? I know I`m talking rubbish OK.
@snake it’s both I think. It seems from things Cameron (and Jesse) have said that Cameron and future John are very close. I was postulating a somewhat more interesting reason for John to send Cameron back than simply that he wanted a beautiful robot sex toy. My reason doesn’t negate that one at all.
It would seem that there isn’t a Riley in the timeline Cameron (and probably Derek) are from, if there were Cameron would have known about her unless we assume Cameron never finds out that Riley that was working with Jesse. (And it makes sense that Jesse’s plan to change the timeline involved something that didn’t happen, if you see what I mean.) Except that it raises the question - just how different a timeline? Does Jesse’s mission actually make sense in this timeline, even given how the other timeline had played out? I’m thinking Jesse will be revealed to have some important information about keeping the timelines straight that means the inter-timeline narratives are consequential. Otherwise things are simply happening at random. Or, if that’s not the case, then Jesse needs to realise her future quite likely has no relevance to her current timeline and her actions will have unpredictable effects given the outcomes she’s seen are not necessarily causally related to anything at all in the timeline she’s now in. So, at least we would get somebody (maybe Cameron ironically enough) saying to her, “You murdered Riley for no reason, your whole plan was stupid, misguided, and irrelevant, if only you’d thought things through.” That would be neat. It would also be a neat reason why Cameron is reticent about revealing the future. She’s not actually being coy, or hiding secrets of her own, it’s simply that she knows it’s largely pointless or even possibly counter-productive.
And maybe it opens up even more possibilities of what might be in the box.
I thought the scene in the morgue was emotional. He told Cameron she couldn’t come with. He didn’t go there to autopsy the body or something, he went there to say goodbye to the woman he loves, it’s not like he could go to the funeral or the viewing. The clues he noticed on the body were incidental. That said, I think he’ll either accuse Derek of the murder or he’ll use that evidence to try to convince Derek that metal didn’t do it.
In Allison From Palmdale, I don’t think Cameron really thought she was Allison, I think she was, in a glitchy way, reverting to her original programming, that should have been scrubbed (maybe it was a backup,) to infiltrate the resistance as Allison. In the first episode of the season, I think she rebooted in safe mode and didn’t have access to her ‘protect John, etc’ over ride programming. I think it’s possible John will have to do something to her at the end of the season and if there is a third, he’ll be learning to reprogram cyborgs then, he has to learn that sometime. One thing I wondered was, did he send Cameron back so he’ll recognize Allison when he meets her?
I think that this was a great freakin episode!! Mervelous! I can’t wait to see part 2 on Friday… oh I cant wait!
I can’t begin to believe that John “loved” Riley. That would be a stretch. He may have snogged her, but that doesn’t indicate “love.”
They never showed that kind of outward feelings in John that I could detect.
Riley didn’t exactly “love” John either. She was just playing the game Jesse wanted her to play.
Riley loved JESSE. As a lover? As a mother figure and nurturer… someone she never had in her young life? As both?
Glad to hear I’m not the only one who discovered Firefly thanks to TSCC. LOL Snake. All of you are staying away from my remote control! LOL!!!!
John Pate I just have to ask but why are you placing all the ladies into the ‘you guys’ label?!?!
And trust me we have thought about it a lot, and that’s what’s so intriguing about this show. The bond between a human and a machine. That’s why I love sci-fi…anything can happen.
And yes I know the show is titled Sarah Connor chronicles…
But to me the more interesting aspect is how can they work with machines to stop JD day from happening. Or get a truce going between some machines and humans if you will. It’s a great concept and again it is a sci-fi show. Go for the Jameron love.
As for ratings go read this if you already haven‘t: http://sarahconnorsociety.net/2009/03/10/desert-cantos-gains-35-w-dvr-numbers/
Dan I’ll PM you on wiki!!!
You know… I was just thinking about the speculation around Weaver’s arc. If her plans with John Henry are not aligned with Skynet’s best interests in the future, then why did Cromartie, who was decidedly anti-Connor, purposefully spare Ellison’s life?
This is still a great episode. Overall it seems like it was well received here. I thought Cameron’s call to JC was pretty darn creepy - one of the more creepy points of the series in my eyes. I also really liked the sub scenes and how the sub capt seems to easily work with the crew. Although the crew may not too easily work with the capt. I found it pretty interesting to learn about the ‘Kraken’ and that the machines have areas of controll in the oceans. It also sounded like there are areas that the resistance still controlls and has as safe zones. To me, this indicates a much much larger overall war. It takes so much to wage a battle on all fronts and in all fields (water, air, land etc.) that both the machines and resistance much be much larger than I had previously thought or than what we have been shown to this point.
I wonder how the machines fair in the artic - can they handle the weather when it is more than 40 or 50 deg below zero? Haha, I just really like to learning more about the future and the battles that are being waged.
@John Pate: How do you get a picture to show up on your posts here?
Again, Great work on the episode!!
@Kea, don’t be offended, “you guys” can be gender non-specific nowadays - and anyhoo, how can I be sure you’re not a robot come back from the future to kill me? Whatever, you’re just figments of the intarw3bz anyway… which segues neatly into the pictures for comments - I assume it is because of this: http://gravatar.com/
BTW, we still need to find out what happened to Derek when he was taken down to the basement where the piano music was playing…
Fantastic show, Boys and Girls! Now THIS is what I’m talking about!
Loved the episode. Can’t wait for next weeks!
Love,
Angel
@ John Pate LOL not offended at all.
I had a feeling you were using the term lightly but with the internet its sometimes hard to tell. All is forgiven and I will call off the terminators. 
Now lets all build a time machine and jump to Friday…I want to know how part 2 ends!!!