Ourselves Alone is upon us and you should have lots to talk about after tonight. This episode starts the very serialized run to the end of the season so pay close attention– the plot thickens.
Ourselves Alone is upon us and you should have lots to talk about after tonight. This episode starts the very serialized run to the end of the season so pay close attention– the plot thickens.
Finally no more crazy Sarah! I can look forward to an episode again!
Tony,
I concur! Yippee!!
TGIR!!
The company we have to keep for this show to survive…
Looks great so far
so for so good, liked the cameron trying to fix her hand scene and her accidently killing that bird
Halfway through, and it’s hitting all the bases!
This is more like it.
Please, please, please, keep it up and let’s have a 3rd season, and then a 4th, and a 5th, and…
wow…. just wow…. and the preview was just awesome too!
Just finish watching and wanted to say I really love this show. Please Fox and Warner Brothers renew.
Thank you for an amazing episode.
THIS is the TSCC I know and love. It’s a pity though because I can almost positively say I know how the season will end, based on Summer’s reaction to a question about the finale, and the fact that she just gave John the kill switch to her life
Far too many commercials, but the story line is definitely hitting all the right spots. The suspense is keeping us on the edge of our seats wanting more, so FOX needs to keep this show alive for us die-hard fans!
FINALLY JESSE REALLY SHOWS HER TRUE COLORS! I love that kind of a cat fight, and man was I screaming at the screen. This is probably the best episode of the season. Love you T:TSCC and Cameron Rocks!
yea i loved everything except for the kill switch and jesse doing the deed instead of cameron
Yeah, I am afraid we’re losing Cameron by the season’s finale, but not forever, I guess. I hope.
And yes, this was ANOTHER GREAT EPISODE. Kuddos to all involved.
I CAN’T BELIEVE RILEY IS DEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Loved it cept for the kill switch and jesse doing the deed instead of cameron
I don’t know…. They could have been talking about Riley with that whole death, after Josh re-mentioned that there was yet another, and that - THAT one was the one he was talking about.
I think the kill switch was put in place to make you think that, I sure hope Miss Glau doesn’t get killed off
Basically a perfect episode.
Had the perfect amount of everything!
Amazing how they made Riley’s death at the hands of someone most of us didn’t expect.
Love love love
((Speechless)) This was precisely the kind of awesomeness I have been missing since season one. Fantastic job on a great episode, all around.
@Innocent
Lol
I’m on the Left coast so I’m still waiting. Sounds good though!
does anybody know when fox will decide to pick up or cancel this show? dont want it to end!!!!
Awesome episode.!! It left us a lot to ponder for the end of the season. I also liked the fact that the future John/Cameron relationship is being touched upon more. John is clearly thinking along the lines of who he can trust in the future (after Dday).
I am very confused about one thing though - I don’t understand why Jesse wants to take John out if he is the future “savior”. Can anybody give me details on this, because I’m sure it’s probably because I missed info in an episode or two.
when does fox decide on picking up T:SCC? I dont want this show to end!!!!
Wow, good episode…
everyone was always wanting riley to die, and our wishes came true…
now that its happened, its a bit sad though…
now poor cameron is going to be blamed, but from the looks of the preview shown recently, john wont believe that she did it.
i dont like the self destruct switch she gave john though…
Way to kill off one of our least favorite characters! In retrospect it really is pretty tragic what happened to her but oh well John gave her her chance to come clean.
Lot of John/Cameron moments and you could literally swim in the sexual tension between the two. My kid sis thinks its gross. I think its one of the last untested romance relationships to air on primetime TV. If Cameron had never damaged her chip then such a relationship could never be possible she would’ve been restricted to her programming. But now…? Here’s to doomed relationships!
It was pretty obvious that was Jesse plan all along, but still an excellent episode. Hope the rating improve greatly for the these last 6 shows, and make FOX reconsider the cancellation.
AWESOME EPISODE!!
“Edit Button”
One more thing. Only complaint I have about this episode is that it did nothing whatsoever to move the “stop skynet” plot forward. But looking at it from the glass half full side it was good to see that they focused an episode on wrapping up the riley storyline and hey look! Someone close to John died.
For those of you who saw the “Dekker Tape”, one woman down two to go.
i will have to say i will kinda miss riley and jeez jesse is such a bitch i hope she dies
HOLY CRAP. That episode was AMAZING.
I’m still anxious and it’s been done for 45 minutes!!
Pure Awesome…this is the type of stuff that will get us a third season!
poor riley i really hope john kills jesse
It feels so good to watch TV again!
Awesome Episode!!
Shocked that Cameron gives John a kill switch…
I hope noone will press that button…
Thank you and Keep the Great work!!
I hope This show will not get cancel and have more and more seasons!!
TSCC ROCKS!!
HOLY… now this is what I’m talking about!!
This is the type of episode I’ve been waiting for!!
Ahh! I’m so happy!! I love this showwww!
That ending was so sad though.. when Cameron gave John the button to end her life. I don’t like where this is going.. poor Cameron, her chip is all messed up. Plus to top it all off, it looks like Jessie’s gonna set it up to look like Cameron killed Riley.
In the words of River Tam, “Things are going to get much, much worse.”
Well, at least John has seen the light now.. he’ll be the one to stand up for Cameron. Everyone else will believe she killed Riley and that she’s a liability but, John will see the truth. That ending scene was, I believe, was a turning point in the John/Cameron relationship. John will now take Cameron’s side because he knows it isn’t her fault. He needs her, and she needs him.
Riley’s dead, at last.
Although, I really feel bad for her- she was just a pawn all along. She sure gave Jessie one hell of a fight though! Urgg.. Jessie, she’s the evil one here..
I’ve gotta say, I absolutely LOVE where this plot line is going.
Things are getting more and more intense, I’m so excited to see what will happen next week! I’m not going to be able to concentrate at all this week, I’ll be to busy thinking about this show.
Holy christ! That was fantastic. This is exactly what I have been waiting for: A huge payoff. I am very happy.
Well done.
I thought this episode was great I kinda feel bad that Riely got killed. What the hell did Reily mean when she told Jesse “I love you.”
speaking for myself—when tv does things to me like dark angel,reunion,invasion,[great shows that you love just getting the rug yanked out mid-stride] it leaves a bad taste in my mouth,like i’ve just been slapped.it tells me “we dont care that you invested all that time and energy in our storyline,too bad”.
it sure as hell makes me pass up starting to watch tons of new shows out of the belief that networks just dont care if the whole story they are telling ever actually gets told.it made me gravitate more towards watching things on the net or on disc in chunks just so i knew it wasnt going to be a big,though enjoyable,waste of my time.[sort of like waiting for a limited series in comics to fully come out so you can read it in one sitting]
i never had any such thoughts about this show,”whatever it is,it’s gonna be real good” was my thinking. it’s a damn shame that the continued existence of something this high quality could be threatened.it’s not the lack of quality but the networks’ ratings greed that is driving viewers away in general.
two firsts for me with this series–the first time i’ve ever just turned on the tv,tuned in to watch something,and felt guilty watching it for free.i feel like i should be paying for this.
and the first show that i’ve read and paid attention to the credits of because i liked it so much.
awesome epidose but
IF YOU KILL CAMERON YOU KILL THE SHOW
PERIOD
PURE WIN!
Very nice. so glad to see that Sarah arc over with and on to the good stuff like what we just saw tonight..
I pray the ratings have seen an increase with that episode. even if just a little bit. if nothing else those shots with the prosthetic arm/hand would catch people’s attention, right?
MUCH better episode. Bravo! Far closer to like Season 1 goodness!
I did feel a little sad for Riley… I’m not a monster, dammit!
But only a little. She equaled a bit of the studio tampering (more stand-alones pushing us to the brink with the blood stained wall, and emphasizing Riley) at the beginning of the season, which I didn’t like… Kevin Reilly!!!
So, now that she’s dead. It’s on to Jessie. You kangaroo-lovin’ she-bitch!
And this is the first time in a while I have watched a TV show live (also DVR’d to watch again)… and it was PAINFUL!!! PAINFUL!!!
Yes, I understand commercials are necessary, but it felt like the flow really was hurt at where they were placed… and there were A LOT of them!! Dear God!
And I REALLY feel sorry for John and most especially our beloved Cameron. The writers sure like to F with them. You sick, twisted bastards!! LOL!!!
And JF must be laughing at the fans twisting in the wind about Cam’s fate. It’s like Cam’s dead and Summer’s out of another job if you don’t watch… suckers. I’m just sensationalizing things here, but… you know…
Is Josh Friedman Dr. Evil or Scott Evil? Is he Fully Evil or just Semi-Evil?
Is he Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup-loaded Cola Evil or Diet Cola Evil?
Hopefully, like Scott, he’s just one calorie… not evil enough to do this to the fans and Summer.
Please say you’re Diet Cola Evil, Josh!!!
Cheers!
The most interesting episode in a long time. Honestly I was kinda rooting for Riley to kill Jesse.
The title for this ep could also of been called, “All About Riley.” I don’t mean this in a bad way. It was a great episode as always.
Wow! The tension in this episode was unbearable. All up against each other. Jesse being the cause. Riley being the reason. Derek has no clue about Jesse. Sarah not trusting John when it comes to Riley. Both thinking Cameron will try to kill Riley. Sarah had a bullet in her gun to rid of Riley? Kind of glad John kept his cool and didn’t gang up on Riley as well, she did have a pretty sad life. So for now the complete truth about Jesse’s motive dies with Riley. Feel terrible this all might end with season two. Just such a FANTASTIC Series!
nick85, I think Derek tracking the Caleba lawyer is moving the “Stop Skynet” plot foward. Albeit, not by much.
Overall, very good episode. Nice use of foreshadowing with Cameron dealing with the bird from “The Mouse Trap.” Hope the ratings reward stellar writing by Toni and Dan. It took the bad taste of my mouth from the last couple of episodes. Not that I don’t apperiacte character exploration, but it felt nice to see some progress with Camerno’s mission, and John’s delevopment. Oh, and Riley and Jese in a knock out cat fight, doesn’t hurt either.
Phasee,
Now THAT would have been cool! I was hoping Riley would show a suprising tough hombre-ness and she, after being whored out to John, would turn and kill Jessie during the fight (like hitting her hard enough in the head with the statue).
Derek finds a few things out and goes after Riley for killing his “friend with benefits,” not understanding what’s going on.
And Riley disappears herself or Derek lets her go after learning the truth only to return for one or two episodes in Season 3 as either a villainess who, unfortunately, has picked up some nasty habits from Jessie, or someone who decides to help the Connors out due to some feelings of guilt. Obviously, she and John would be through as a couple.
But, that’s just a fan’s musings, and it doesn’t jibe with anything now at all.
As you were.
Sorry to saying that, but finally Riley died. I didn’t like her one bit. I understand, she’s supposed to be in “the hated one”-role. Everyone would think, Cameron killed her but just John would believe her. Sarah was thinking about to get rid of Riley with that bullet for a moment I think. But she just couldn’t do it, wouldn’t do it because of John’s later sadness. But now…John will be very sad.
And I’m sure Cameron won’t die in the end of the season because of the kill switch. That will be too easy and un-complicated and it’s 100% that JF will get us a very confusing end.
I liked the idea of evil-Jesse. I haven’t thought so far that it was Jesse’s plan to let Cameron kill Riley and then John would hate Cam. Brilliant. But what will do Jesse now? She had lost her mission, she has no sense to stay. She could help Derek to stop Skynet but she had a big mistake…she can’t join the Connor-team because Sarah already knows her. That’s a very big problem…
And I’m sure Derek will ask her why she late was and didn’t help him and then he will see combat wounds on her… interesting storyline.
Ahh…can’t wait for the upcoming episodes with evil(?)-Jesse in the future and the meeting between Sarah and the T-1001. And of course the scene with Ellison and John: “I’m gonna kill you.” That would be badass.
“I went down to London town to have some fun in the underground” - can’t wait too how Garrett Dillahunt sings
Poor Savannah…
WOW. That was the best episode this season IMO, i was on the edge of my seat the whole way through. If the back 5 are even better then this then i can see the ratings getting much better, well i really hope so.
The only thing that worries me is the bomb in Cams head, if she dies i wont be watching a season 3 even if we get one.
There is so many good things about this episode I don’t know where to begin. I hope that the rating boost on Friday continues and we will see a renewal.
Excellent story. It was pretty clear before that Jesse and Riley were lovers and that Jesse was using (and abusing) the relationship to control Riley. But the ultimate use Jesse had in mind for Riley is the epitome of evil. The machines might sink so low but only because they’re programed that way.
To my mind Derek has always been a much bigger threat than Riley. Notice that he has never said a thing about Jesse to Sarah or John. Without his silence, Jesse couldn’t get away with her plotting. And when Jesse comes right out and tells Derek that she doesn’t want to prevent the war, she want’s to win it, Derek seems unfazed by this alarming statement. Jesse must give great shower.
I’m starting to think Jesse is part of a sort of future Conway Cabal. The members of this conspiracy need to be rid of Cameron now and in the future so, when they feel the time is right, future John can have an “accident” and they can take over. It wouldn’t be the first time.
Cameron giving John the remote detonator reminds me strongly of her handing the gun to Chola at the end of S1. Its a symbol of trust. Also if it can send a signal to Cameron, perhaps it can receive a signal from her. I have a feeling this could be important in S3.
Hang in there, Baby!
And mucho kudos to Leven for a great performance! One can like and admire the actress while disliking the character.
She was in such a pickle, the poor girl, having to play someone loathed by a good number of the viewers (me included) only to die undignified and sullied by Aussie-zilla!
I hope they don’t try to make us feel sorry for her in the Future flashforwards… ’cause it ain’t gonna happen. Jessie needs to be planted six feet under, upside down, so her evilness cannot spread from the beyond.
Man that was an awsome epp and I hope they dont kill Cameron in the end. Please fox and WB renew for a 3rd season. Tonites epp was the TSCC I know and love.
Ok, had to double post. But, I have some more thoughts.
Czarfore, I’m 99.99% sure that Jesse and Riley aren’t lovers in a sexual way. Riley loved Jesse in a older sister kind of way. Nothing sexual.
Back to some original thoughts.
Did anyone else jump when Cameron made her fingers twitch with the screwdriver? lol
I felt this was Levin’s best job of acting in the series. To bad it was her last. Well, she does play dead in the next episode. So, some might say that will be her best acting job. I kid. I kid.
Did anyone else think it was kinda strange how John said she wasn’t designed to fight? What??? It flies in the face of what he said at the beginning of “Self Made Man” about Cameron being one of the most advanced killing machines every designed Hmm… seems like a contradiction to me.
Did anyone else think Sarah was going to kill Riley, when she cocked the 9mm? She thought better of it, and took out the clip, and discharged the bullet in the chamber. It was very subtle, but effective.
And lastly, I think Cameron’s mission is starting to become more obvious.
Suddenly, her actions in “Goodbye to All That” make a lot more sense. She didn’t intervene at the Cadet Academy, because it was a big moment in John’s development as a leader. She would have stepped in, if John was about to be killed, but she wanted John to take care of the problem himself.
That’s why she invited John to fix her arm. It was another step forward in young John’s development. I believe, future John told Cameron to make sure his younger self knows how to repair her, in case anything drastic happens.
Also, for what it’s worth, I don’t think future John ever told her to put a self-destruct bomb next to her chip. She did that on her own accord, breaking Future John’s order( and his heart….aww).
Wow. That was amazing! I loved every minute of it. And Cameron making a kill switch for John was sweet and caring in a morbid kind of way. You could see that John would never want to do that. And I really, really, really hope that it doesn’t come to that, but with Summer’s comments I’m afraid that it might.
Damn that was good!!! Simply outstanding.
I sure don’t feel bad for Riley. I wanted Jesse to pump a few extra rounds in her just for good measure. I wasn’t really sure she was gone until the promo showed her on a slab. I am so glad that part of the story line is closed. But I certainly agree Jesse should be the next to go and I hope Derrek takes her out for her treachery.
I loved the part when Sarah locked and loaded to take care of Riley herself and then thought better of it. Great moment that explored Sarah’s mindset but did so quickly and efficiently.
Last but not least Summer was absolutely amazing. The evolution we see in Cameron this episode opens up a thousand different possibilities. Push that switch and it’s your ass Conner. I’m just sayin!! lol.
I was going to mention Leven’s performance too, I thought she was really, really good. She went out in a blaze with this episode!
The last four episodes of this series have been very much about Sarah Connor. With this episode, we returned to a storyline pretty much untouched since December. In fact, “The Good Wound” was the only post-hiatus episode with Riley and Jesse in it until tonight. I must say, however, I don’t think I enjoyed this episode nearly as much as I enjoyed the Sarah-centric ones. While those always kept me on my feet wondering what was reality, what was being imagined, what was being dreamed, and what was going through each person’s mind at every turn, this episode basically told straight-out what each person’s motives were, and painted the picture of their emotional state at every moment. It was a “spoon-fed” episode, if you will, so therefore I felt it dragged along in parts. Not everything HAS to be explained (for instance, some of John and Cam’s dialogue in this episode was very repetitive— felt the writers didn’t give the audience enough credit there; we could’ve figured out what was happening without them coming right out and telling us “OK, so now I’m going to fix you even though I’ve tried before and it hasn’t worked.” Come on, the fans could’ve pieced it all together). The scene at the beginning (and at the end) with the bird was also interesting, and did give us some interesting insight into what’s going on in Cameron’s head when nobody else is around. Derek’s storyline was confusing and unnecessary, in my opinion. They should’ve just waited for another opportunity to flesh that one out. Interesting how the writers made you feel like Cameron was going to kill Riley only to have John intervene and eventually for her supposed “savior” to kill her. I hate that bitch Jesse so much. During the fight scene I was rooting for Riley so bad! The only thing that really prevented this episode from being great in my book was just the overall dull feeling the writers instilled in this installment’s script. From the people who brought us “The Demon Hand” (my favorite T:SCC episode to date) and “Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today,” to be honest with you, I expected MUCH more. But this IS all leading up to a pulse-pounding, action-filled season finale: I can feel it!
I really hope, if worse comes to worse, that Josh will “sell” the rights of Cameron the character to the creators of T5 and T6.
This is in the hopes that Cameron does not stay dead or deactivated as I’m afraid will be her fate at the end of the season. It would suck, and definitely feel like a T2 rehash if that happened IMHO.
Maybe the writers of T5/T6 wouldn’t use Cameron in the same way as the TV show, but the character would become part of the pantheon of cool Terminators. And maybe if James Cameron did have more input into the next films he might like Cameron as a character.
Arnold and Summer: THE Terminators!
Well, in MY humble opinion Summer really IS the new Terminator. Far more grace and acting ability than Arnold, and I think he would proudly agree. She has outshone even The Governator!
A big, BIG round of applause to Summer Glau. Like it or not… she IS the show’s foundation.
Sarah could die, even though her name is in the title, and people would be sad, but they would pull themselves up and move on, but if Cameron were to buy the farm and/or get messed with as a character very much I think the fans would howl bloody murder and the show would never recover.
Awesome episode! I was riveted to the screen. My heart is still in my throat. My God, Riley is dead, Cameron is glitchy, and Jesse is a very bad girl. Wow…lots ot ponder.
Right on the money Dan!
Summer Glau is by far my favorite Terminator and that is coming from a die hard skeptic and old school Terminator fan. She has really taken ownership of this character. She is a phenomenal actress. I hope for many more seasons of Cameron. Without her there is no show. There is no doubt that she could take the role to unparalleled success in a feature film.
oh boy, this was a kickass episode!!!
first, the scene at the begining was hilarious with Cameron talking to the bird, that was priceless!!!
and the look of shock and sadness that she had when she realised that instead of freeing the bird, she had killed it, was very impressive
i really liked the passage of the woman being litterally shut up by john about the permit of the gun, i found that it was very reveiling of who actually ran the show in the house and sarah looked very proud of the way he acted at that point, i felt like john was finally living up to the expectations
then there was of course the confrontation in the garage, with Cam scaring the living daylights out of Ryley!!! WAY TO GO SUMMER!!!! incredible acting on that part, she looked very cold, and didn’t betray an ounce of emotion!!!
the Catfight Jesse/Ryley, now that’s what i call an ass whipping, both of them were great and Jesse was seriously banged up at the end of the fight, poor Ryley though she really was just a pawn…
and the final scene with John and Cameron in the garage was totally sad and beautiful:
Cameron making the killswitch for John:
“I can’t kill myself… but you can.”
“why would i want to kill you?!!”
the look of total disbilief in that statement, close to tears, and the look after looking at the switch, i thought he was gonna jump on her and kiss her right there
then he just leaves, after wondering what his future self would do…
the music at the end was beautifull really sending the message that was intended!!!
just one word:
MOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR :D:D:D
Bravo. Bravo…encore. Now that was a TSCC ep!!!
Loved it Loved it Loved it!!! I was literally shaking with joy (or maybe low blood sugar or both LOL) when this ep was over. It was that good.
First of all Cameron.
What a wonderful character. Strong yet vulnerable, there is so much depth to the character. The fact that she might be evolving. Absolute pleasure to watch this ep. Best character ever. Summer does an amazing job!!
John and Cameron aka Jameron.
When these two are on the screen it’s just an absolute joy to watch. The discussions those two have…I could watch it for hours.
Not to mention the on screen chemistry makes this show a pleasure to watch. Keep it up!!!
The family feeling back.
Sarah talking to John and Cameron. John talking to Sarah and Cameron. Now all we need is Derek back. But the family’s back.
The humor is back.
Getting rid of Riley.
I knew Jesse would be the one to do it. And that they would try and frame Cameron.
It’s interesting riley had more to fear from humans the terminators.
Who called the necklace from the promo!!! Oh yeah!!! Now all we need is to save Cameron from herself and get that kill switch out of her and get a S3.
But wonderful episode. This show deserves a S3!!! And it better get one. Come on FOX and WB!!!!
Thank you. What a great way to start the weekend.
Only two little questions…what fight did Cameron get into that might have damaged her hand?
And in the preview there was a line about control and it not happening again?!!?? Where was that from?!?!? I’m drawing a blank?
The only thing I hated had nothing to do with this episode…I watch the show live and my FOX affiliate had a programming problem.
John and Cameron froze on my TV. So I missed a little part.
Also I lost volume. Everyone went mute!!!!! I had to dive for my remote to turn on closed captioning. And I got really got good at lip reading. So I need the DVD’s asap!!!
Next week J/C goodness. And Casy is back!!! I missed her.
Bring on S3 please!!!!
Oh and amazing special effects seeing how Cameron tries to fix herself. I would love to see some behind the scene’s on that. Looked great.
Wow, great episode! Seeing a fight between Jesse and Riley was so unexpected! Leven was fantastic - props to her for doing an incredible job!
Was happy that I got more Sarah than her just carrying a laundry basket in this ep, but I still loved the Sarah centric eps. So did IGN:
http://tv.ign.com/articles/958/958375p1.html
And the hopeless romantic in me continues to say this:
John and Cameron… forever.
Much of like (Michael Biehn’s) Kyle and (Lena and Linda’s) Sarah, but not in that kind of sad and tragic way… a more hopeful, and awe inspiring, and truly get-up-and-cheer kind of way.
Out of the park on this one guys, out of the park. Pat yourselves on the back Toni, Daniel, and everyone else.
That season 3 announcement should be around any day now.
“Edit Button”
I don’t think Jesse is entirely evil, as much as this this episode suggests otherwise. I recall another episode earlier in the season where she risked her life, along with Derek, to rescue a girl trapped in an biowarfare infected bunker.
In another episode it was Derek who was going to kill the young Doctor what’s his face but before he could Jesse killed the older one, the one responsible for the torture he caused.
In the post nuclear apocalypse future it seems that when it comes to warfare its all about getting the job done no matter what the cost. Derek proved this when killed he Andy Good in cold blood. In this case the cost was Riley’s life, despite her still being a very young and very innocent girl.
I’m not advocating for this type of thinking, it’s terrible and right up there with serial killing, rape, and you name it. But what I am saying as when only recently it came to trying to understand Sarah’s mentality about killing people now is a time we should take a step back and look at Jesse’s mentality because there is a lot to learn and if we just write her off as evil we miss a very large milestone.
For one I doubt she’s the only resistance fighter that had the same mindset when it came to solving problems like Cameron. She was probably part of a larger conspiracy.
Also Sarah and Cameron both harboured those dark thoughts about solving the Riley problem with a burial six feet under. In the end though we saw it was Jesse that pulled the trigger.
The reason JF dragged that out I believe is to show just how far Sarah and Cameron have come as characers. Sarah, before her whole mind trip arc, would never have thought about killing Riley as a solution. Cameron, before she started living with the Connors, would’ve killed Riley in a heartbeat. Instead we saw them each struggle with that inner demon but ultimately chose to do the right thing - well Sarah at least because I’m not too sure what Cameron would’ve done had John not stepped in.
Jesse has gone through a traumatic experience that has changed her whole mindset about warfare and what’s acceptable to get the mission done. She is what Sarah probably would have become (more machine and more Terminator) in order to complete her mission,to keep her son safe. We saw that when she killed Winston last episode without a second thought.
In that essence Jesse’s more like Cromartie than anything else. I think JF is trying to show us that humans can be just as cold as the machines, and he succeeded.
If I offended anyone with these thoughts then I apologize but the more I think about it the more the pieces fall into place. Do I think Jesse should be spared? Yeah right, off with her head, but before we do let’s at least try to learn something from this.
Thecolours, I did think of that possibility when I posted the plot movements and I agree. If this pans out and he is a link then this episode helped move the Skynet Plot along nicely. If it doesn’t then JF was only using it as an excuse to keep Derek occupied.
Also one more thing interesting happened this episode that no one mentioned. The Connors have sixty days in order to get weapon permits in the state of Calif. That means since establishing themselves as “The Baums” only sixty days have transpired in this entire alternate Terminator dimension. But at the same time we’ve seen John and Cameron both start school, probably in Sept., and then before S1 ended what’s his face asked Cameron to the prom.
Maybe it’s just me but aren’t proms held in the spring? Am I missing something here? Because even though their house burned down, John’s name got in the system, and their house was robbed they’re still going by the same last name. Not much of a change in identity. So if there’s no change then they were staying in LA for a lot longer than sixty days and should not be allowed to carry concealed weapons. Otherwise if they did change identities… John Baum to John Baum? Seriously what’s up with that?
I love you Summer!
Thanks for the episode. Was simply a pleasure to watch it.
That was a great episode.One of the best this season.I hope next week’s episode is at least as good as this one or even better.
BEST episode this season, for sure! And one of the top five episodes of all.
I was rooting for Jesse to get killed, but I’ll take Riley.
Just don’t leave Jesse’s fate to hang over the season finale, please!!!!
I must agree with Thecolours. Apparently, Riley was just some mole-person living in the muck. Tonight, we figured out why Jesse really picked her: she’s been expendable all along. She was just some sewer rat who had nowhere to go, no one to go home to, and nobody would miss her.
This episode confirmed a lot of my suspicions about Jesse. It’s not that she’s evil, it’s that she’s an extremist who’s willing to take any measure possible to achieve her results. To use an analogy from Harry Potter, John/Sarah are Gryffindors and Jesse is a Slytherin. Although the house of Slytherin tends to produce a high output of dark wizards, not all of them are evil. They simply are extremely driven to greatness at ANY cost; this includes stepping on other peoples’ feet, breaking rules, making your own rules, and being super-resourceful (to an extent where given the choice, you save your own skin first). Nevertheless, I still think she has her heart in the right place; but I don’t like her methods.
Given: both Derek and Jesse hate Cameron. Jesse is really here to pull John away from Cameron; she’s said many times that Cameron is/will be a bad influence on John, poisoning both present and future John’s minds. Derek doesn’t like her either. However, he’s made it clear that he considers her useful. Then again, Jesse clearly lived with a “metal” driving a sub, which Derek disapproved of. They both seem to disapprove of it, but have resolved that it’s still necessary to use them for “dirty jobs”.
I hope they don’t kill Derek off. If they killed either him or Cameron off, they’d be cutting off a lot of potential viewers. Same with T-Weaver. I predict either Ellison, Charley (hey, his character still is alive, I can’t believe they’ve completely cut him out of the series), Savannah, or even Sarah (I haven’t ruled it out). I know, if it was Sarah, can they still call it “The Sarah Conner Chronicles”? Hey, it worked for Tolstoy in his story “Kholstomer: The Story of a Horse”, in which the entire is told from the perspective of a horse, and then in the middle of the story the horse is killed by the master, and then the story is still told from the perspective of the horse even though the horse was actually dead. Dead Sarah Conner Monologues? Naw, that would be too weird.
This was a beautiful episode, one of the best IMO. Time flew by so fast and before I knew it, the ep was over.
Thank you for all the work everyone puts into this, from the cast to the crew. Such amazing talent =)
Fellow fans, we must not let go of this show. Let your voices be heard! Write to FOX and WB and express your support.
Fox: askfox@fox.com
WB: scott.rowe@warnerbros.com
There are also some online petitions you can sign. Please check the official wiki for them.
No fate.
Riley looked like she had crapped her pants when she was trapped in the garage with Cameron. I can’t believe she went after a trained soldier without a gun, though.
Sorry for your loss, Notty.
But Riley WAS extremely annoying so she had to go. I know Jameron fans see this as an opening, but her death opens up two things: 1.) Derek not trusting Jesse, which could lead to her exposure; and 2.) Derek being exposed himself for not reporting that Jesse had come back through time.
In Riley’s defense, she was just a pawn. Collateral damage to be used by her handler. That’s why Jesse kept her away, so they wouldn’t get close. No personal attachment for the sacricial lamb.
But Jesse - who can’t really fight - put a whuppin on Jesse something good. If she knew any combat training she’d have smacked her in the head and crushed her skull. She actually should have just hit her in the head with a tire iron or shot her back instead of trying to choke her out. Silly rabbit: tricks are for (now dead) kids.
I for one am going to miss the old girl. She as put in a no win situation both past (future)and present. She was becoming a sympathic character, and I for one didn’t see this scenario happening. And to have the two women I hate the most in the show in an all out awesome catfight, is, well, AWESOME!!
This was a very good ep all told, and a fitting tribute to one of the mains to go out with a bang. Far better than getting killed by the air conditioning unit…
Last word: Riley was redeemed in this ep, and for a few fleeting moments was one of the good guys. I think we were all pulling for her to not only kick Jesse’s ass - which she did - but win and possibly kill Jesse too. I’m pretty certain that’ll happen in time, and you can enjoy YOUR sweet revenge!
This episode brought back a lovely rendition of a classic song… from the movie musical “The Wizard of Oz” (now, why did I think of that?)… to my mind.
It’s for Cameron.
Hope you guys will listen to it… it’s truly lovely, sad, and hopeful. Makes me tear up every time. It’s a nicer rendition IMHO than Iz’s famous cover, if you can believe it.
The late, great Eva Cassidy (Live at Blues Alley… it’s available on CD too) singing…
“Over the Rainbow”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwTdqPkluY
I was expecting this to be a good one because Toni Graphia’s episodes are always my favourites, but this… This is beyond outstanding.
S3. We need it.
This show simply CAN’T stop after 5 more episodes.
fabrice March 6th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
awesome epidose but
IF YOU KILL CAMERON YOU KILL THE SHOW PERIOD.
The more frailties Cameron exhibits (parts breaking, chip glitches, etc) the more John sees the humanistic side of her. A transition is taking place before our eyes. John Connor is slowly falling for Cameron. Her parading in front of him in B & P speaks volumes about the possibilities. Since the future isn’t set, John my hedge his bets by fathering a child with Cameron. The future John may have sent her back to himself for that very purpose. Skynet may yet get John Connor, but with Cameron as his mother, I doubt Skynet would ever get John’s son.
Thecolors. We’ll just have disagree (in a friendly manner) on Jesse and Riley. I find Jesse to be so ruthless that I believe she’s capable of anything and would want to have the strongest possible hold on Riley. Big sister just doesn’t fit what I’ve seen this season. Perhaps someday the writers will let us know their intent.
I thought the acting was really terrific in this episode. Summer bought out Cameron’s very human distress over killing the bird without losing that robotic blankness of expression beautifully. And Tommy was great. To me John seems to have made a important transition from whiney, self-centered, why-is-this-happening-to-me John to a more grown up John. Note how he was the one who fielded the tough questions from the social worker. His evident compassion in attempting to repair Cameron’s arm, restored the harmony between the two characters . And his understanding of Cameron’s trust in him when she gives him the detonator was the icing on the cake. Excellent job TD.
A last word on Riley. She never had Allison Young’s courage. She was like the battered women we hear or read about and have no respect for because we can’t understand why they stay in their abusive relationships. I’d like to see a scene in an S3 episode in which John tries to explain Riley to Cameron. Perhaps Cameron will say Riley was a little like the bird in the chimney. RIP Riley.
I loved this episode - everything is coming to a head. Now I hope Jesse gets her comeuppance.
With only a few nitpicks from us (me included), I think this return to the season 1 formula was exactly what the show needed. If the next five are close to this (or better!), then season 3 might just be a possibility. Just maybe.
I’ve spent the past three hours doing the fancast and writing up the blog, so I’m a little brain-fried at the moment, and still stressed (curse you JF :-). I just had to throw in my quick two cents about how nice it was to have the show back that so many of us enjoy. I’ll comment more later, but you can check out the blog if you can’t wait (http://cjcs.com/tib/2813/ttscc-0217-ourselves-alone/).
Once again, this was good. Familiar, plotty, stressful, sad, rewarding, and it left me wanting more. I’m so happy to say that I can’t hardly wait until next week’s episode.
Coach:
I can’t agree that Riley was one of the good guys. When she was pressed by JC to come clean she kept her mouth shut. She had to know he was the future leader of the resistance yet as the plan unraveled she opted to protect herself rather than reveal the traitorous activity of Jesse et.al. Lastly, The dialog between Jesse and Riley seemed to me that Riley was pissed about being betrayed by her girlfriend/big sister (I’m not sure I know which it is). Her attack on Jesse was rooted in selfishness and revenge not self sacrifice.
I’m sorry if this sounds childish, but Cameron is soooo hot. I love the sexual tension plotline, and thank you Fox for killing Riley. Although I did like the macabre twist of finding out Jessie’s true purpose for bringing her back.
If you haven’t seen the deleted scene from the pilot on one of the other blog sites of the REAL Cameron in John’s HS class, check it.
Uhhh, Seneca, you got me on the whole Jameron child hypothesis - is that possible?
I forgot to say hats off to the cast and crew for an outstanding job. What an episode. I’ve watching it at least 4 times already. Wow.
Question did they use a different filming technique? When my volume was off I noticed the camera move a little side to side, or was trying to focus on Sarah. It was an intersting technique that worked. It felt like the camera was there. It had a very fluid flow to it.
As for Cameron’s kill switch…what’s to prevent it from going off it she’s shocked? Or someone else trying to hit the switch. I know from the previews we see John having the necklace on next ep. Does he decide that the kill switch is too dangerous because everyone is after Cameron and he makes her take it out or deactivate it? Can’t it fall into the wrong hands or be remotely activated?
Or was Cameron lying. Is it really a kill button? Could it be a signal finder? Did she even put on into her head?
You just feel for Cameron. She’s evolving, she’s thinking and not just acting on impulse. She felt very emotional in this episode. Just look when she’s alone fixing her hand. Or when the bird died.
John admits that she’s ‘feelings’.
Does Cameron go to Weaver to be fixed? Or JH?
Oh yes and I thought John was going to give her the switch back, hug her or kiss her. Call me a Jameron romantic!!!
Must save Cameron and secure that S3!!!
Off to watch the ep again!!!!! Because wow!!!!
congratulations, it was a great episode
the show is back on track again
we need another season so people start write to fox and wb
askfox@fox.com
Kea,
Being a hopeless Jameron like many of us soft-centered nutters, you may just like this John/Cameron-ish song… also it’s about simple humanity.
If you’ll permit me guys, gals, as I pull out the ol’ song lyrics. Try as I might, this is just too good IMHO to pass up. Here’s “the piano man.”
Billy Joel’s “All About Soul (Remix)”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK8Nq2arWTc
She waits for me at night, she waits for me in silence
She gives me all her tenderness and takes away my pain
And so far she hasn’t run, though I swear she’s had her moments
She still believes in miracles while others cry in vain
It’s all about soul
It’s all about faith and a deeper devotion
It’s all about soul (She’s all about soul)
‘Cause under the love is a stronger emotion
She’s gotta be strong ’cause so many things gettin’ out of control
Should drive her away
Why does she stay?
It’s all about soul (Soul)
She turns to me sometimes and she asks me what I’m dreamin’
And I realize I must have gone a million miles away
And I ask her how she knew to reach out for me at that moment
And she smiles because it’s understood there are no words to say
It’s all about soul
It’s all about knowin’ what someone is feelin’
The woman’s got soul (She’s all about soul)
The power of love and the power of healin’
This life isn’t fair
It’s gonna get dark, it’s gonna get cold
You gotta get tough, but that ain’t enough
It’s all about soul (Soul)
It’s all about soul
Yes it is
It’s all about soul
There are people who have lost every trace of human kindness
There are many who have fallen, there are some who still survive
As she comes to me at night and she tells me her desires
And she gives me all the love I need to keep my faith alive
It’s all about soul (She’s all about soul)
It’s all about joy that comes out of sorrow
It’s all about soul (She’s all about soul)
Who’s standin’ now, who’s standin’ tomorrow?
You’ve got to be hard, as hard as the rock in that ol’ rock ‘n’ roll
But that’s only part, you know in your heart
It’s all about soul (Soul)
It’s all about soul
Yes it is
All about soul
Yes it is
It’s all about soul
Yes it is
It’s all about soul!
Great episode!!! I, for one, think it will be Derrek that takes out Jesse. He’s already starting to question her and her little not showing up mishap is going to place some doubt in his mind. She never answers any of his questions, and I think he’s an idiot for going along with that. She always just changes the subject or just ignores the fact that he’s said anything. I think he’s starting to realize that something’s up with her and that she’s not the same woman he loved. Sarah and John will probably alienate him when they found out he lied to them, Sarah especially considering she told him she’d kill him if he ever lied to her again. But I’m sure there will be some big explosive drama and everything will be made semi right again.
I’m very excited to see John taking more of a “leadership” role. For too long he was acting like a teenager and not the savior of mankind. The way he dealt with both the DFCS lady and the Riley situation was outstanding. He’s come a long way in two seasons…and hopefully they give him more seasons to continue to grow. I also hope we get to see more of Kyle, Jonathon Jackson is an amazing actor. I really enjoy the future scenes with Derrek and Kyle.
WOW……. Emotionally gripping in every way, suspenseful, and very entertaining. As much as everybody wanted Riley to get out of Johns life, it is a tragic end for her. If Jesse wouldn’t have had that gun, it would have been her that was killed! RIley had her at a major disadvantage. I couldn’t help but think “go Riley!!!” during that scene. At least Riley was a nice person, though manipulated.
This episode was great. Thanks to the writers and all involved.
Nice one Dan.
Actually this is how I got hooked on the show. Loved the character of Cameron instantly. I mean strong female role model…aka girl power. What’s not to love. Then the Jameron stuck hold.
Jameron works so well considering they know what the future holds with man against machine but here you have a possibility that it can work.
And lets face it the on screen chemistry is there.
Its just such an interesting relationship. One of the most interesting ‘ships’ I have seen in a long time. And I hope to see it continue for many years to come.
FYI if you haven’t already check out this interview
Wondercon 2009 Interview with Summer Glau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WloWLzN8ho
Sorry Dan, but you are dead wrong with what you said. Sure Cameron is a badass and better then Arnie, but if Sarah were to die, I would be greatly disappointed. Her character means a lot to me. She’s the original Terminator character for Christ sakes. Sarah Connor is one of the most important parts of the show, and the Terminator universe. If she dies, it would be T3 all over again. I don’t want her to die. The show would end there for me, sorry, even if Summer Glau were still in it. I wouldn’t like for Summer to die either. The only way Cameron or Sarah can die for me is in the series finale, or towards the end of the series, then I’ll accept it, but not now. Anyways, loved the new episode, one of my favorites. I hate Jessie now, feel sorry for poor Riley, I almost cried for her. Now I want Sarah Connor to kick Jessie’s ass. Not Cameron, Sarah Connor. I have always imagined a fight between Sarah Connor and Jessie for some reason. I would love it.
First of all: WOW!
I loved this episode! The John/Cameron moments were perfect and we finally got some insight in how Cameron is changing. I can’t wait for next week’s episode. Or the season finale for that matter, because I’m 90% sure that something will happens to Cameron, so PLEASE FOX give it a 3rd season!
Speaking as Sarah Connor:
I am letting my son make his own decisions, but there is no chance I would allow a Jameron. I would kill Tin Miss before that happens.
Wicked good episode! Total win and very good start as you can just feel the tension building as the season careens to the end (and to more seasons to come hopefully!)
To all of you trying to figure out whether Riley was “good” or “bad”, I humbly believe you are missing the whole point of the series, for they have gone out of their way to avoid that simplifying manicheism. For all the main characters, there is no such a thing as “good” and “evil”, but human beings dealing with their set of circumstances. And their circumstances are very, very extreme, so it’s just a widespread case of desperate times calling for desperate measures.
Was Riley “evil” for lying to John, for not taking that last chance to come clean, to be honest with him? Well, certainly no more “evil” than John himself or the rest of the cast for keeping so many secrets from each other and telling as many lies as they see fit when they deem the situation requires it. As I stated on some previous thread, one of the main subjects of the series is how liying is part of the human condition, like it or not. Lying to others and to ourselves.
So Riley chose to lie because she was convinced it was that or death for her, and we all would agree she was quite right about that.
As for Riley and Jesse’s relationship, I think it was clearly implied before that they were lovers, or at least that Jesse let Riley believe so, and this episode seemed to reinforce that impression. For me, there is no doubt about it, although the writers on this series don’t like to say things out loud but rather have it implied by the character’s words and actions, and that’s what they did once again.
Regarding Jesse, I would not classify her as a “villain” either, but, as some other posters have pointed out, just another ruthless soldier with her own agenda, not much unlike Derek, really. And what agenda may that be? Well, I really don’t think she’s trying to get Cameron out of the picture just so she can take John out more easily. Actually, I think she’s not trying to get Cameron out at all, but rather to stop John from trusting her. She could be doing that for some particular reason, something that will be happening in the future and we don’t know yet. But I’m more inclined to think that she just doesn’t want the future John trusting any machine at all, maybe out of some kind of human-supremacist feeling, a feeling that any mingling with the machines is somehow tainting the human race as a whole. But of course, I am just speculating here.
And since we’re at it, I’ve got a theory about Derek and whatever happened to him in that dark basement in “Dungeons and Dragons”. If you remember, Derek and his companions are set free after he’s been sent into the house’s dark cellar where music plays. The same music that we hear when he watches Cameron dancing at the end of “The Demon Hand”. Although we hear the music, I would say it’s safe to assume that nobody’s playing it, least of all Cameron. It’s only there for our benefit as some kind of hint, and maybe in Derek’s head. And in that same episode, when John feels hurt because of Sarah’s relinquishing him while locked in Pescadero, Derek tells him that being incarcerated would mess up with your head, and, upon John’s retort that some people will fight against that, Derek sadly adds that just a few of them would do that.
So, my guess? Derek was somehow tortured in that cellar –most likely by some iteration of Cameron, hence his knowing she’s metal later on– and he gave up the location of the Resistance’s tunnel. That’s why he and his companions found it attacked and destroyed after leaving the house and returning to it.
Again, all the characters in the series are as flawed and weak as they are human. All of them have bad choices in their past, choices made out of selfishness or pure survival need. Bad choices they are hiding while trying to make it up, to redeem themselves, to come to terms to their own limitations and sense of failure.
Thanks Roy, that’s a very compelling in depth analysis. I think I need to go back and re-watch a few episodes.
I still want to know who let that fat **** idiot beaver toothed bozo josh friedman touch this franchise
JohnH:
He really only screwed the pooch for a brief, albeit critical time. Most of the series has been fantastic. However, after the hiatus he really needed to grab the viewers and keep them tuned in. Instead he decided to go off on the nutbag Sarah tangent that alienated many viewers. Only time will tell if this return to the roots of the series will bring back enough viewers to save T:SCC. It is much harder to coax viewers back than it is to hold their attention in the first place. This last episode confirms that the staff understands what the winning strategy is but, the detour definitely put us in a defensive posture. Let’s hope the petitions and letter writing will have the desired effect. The fact is that this show has all of the elements of a smash hit but the tactics have to back up the substance.
(about johnH’s remark) Well now that was uncalled for…
That episode was great!
I never hated Riley but I never loved her either. She was just some girl until we found out she was from the future. Since then I’ve felt terribly bad for her and I was totally rootin’ for her to win that fight. Bravo for her holdin’ up as long as she did against a resistance fighter. Either Jesse really sucks or Riley knew how to handle herself growin’ up in those tunnels.
I just want to say that I LOVe to hate Jesse. I really do.
And Derek makes me want to beat my own brains in (
) Seriously, he needs to be smarter.. Jesse has told him she’s there to stop Cameron and then she says she’s there to win the war. How do you win the war for the Resistance when you’re trying to kill your leader’s body guard?? Hmmm. THINK Derek for one f**king second lol I still love him though.
But Jesse is good. She also played Sarah like a fiddle. Got Sarah all riled up and worried about people pokin’ into her business. When it comes time, I hope Derek and Sarah trade off beatin’ on Jesse heh.
Cameron’s whole arc this episode was great.. it’s like she’s going through the same thing Sarah did about killing but just the opposite.
John seemed to be more mature this episode. I like mature John. He’s cool. But he REALLY should have figured out that Riley’s from the future with the whole bleached skull comment.
Overall, very awesome episode. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed these back 9 eps and am looking forward to the rest
JohnH, even if I were to agree with your disliking Josh Friedman’s work, which I don’t, what gives you the right to insult him or anybody else just over a matter of artistic taste? He’s not “right” or “wrong”, he’s just leading the story into a direction you happen to not like. And no matter how much you care for that story, how dear the whole TERMINATOR mythos is to you, you are not entitled to dictate how things should be done, and, least of all, to badmouth anybody you disagree with. Even if they were absolute incompetents ruining the show for you.
This is fiction, man, FICTION, this is not a politician affecting your real life, screwing with the world around you. If you don’t like the series, just switch to another station. Or just turn the TV off altogether. And grow up.
Outstanding. The best of the season, I think. I loved it all. I was yelling at the screen and staring open-mouthed to see what happens next. It was moments like tonight that I love this show. Bravo!
Also, thank you for killing off Riley. I wanted Cameron to do it but, now I can’t wait for them to find out about Jesse. I am not a Riley fan at all but I was rooting for her to take down Jesse so bad. I don’t know… something about those two gave me the worst vibes since they walked onscreen so I guess you’re doing your job out there somewhere, actors and writers…
and anyhow, Here’s to round two: Derek/Jesse, anyone
2nd’s Roy’s comment
But also if your comment won’t help the show stay afloat but in fact drag it down? That’s saying you have an agenda.
Schmacky:
I liked this grown up JC as well. I couldn’t stand him for most of S2 but this is a welcome transformation. He really seems to be growing a pair. I hope the trend continues.
The best episode since S&D.
ratio of ppl that liked it, to those disliking it.
99 to 1
the 1 is “ARRNOLD”
Excellent. Loved how Riley was dealt with (not meant in a sadistic way mind you), the actress did a very good job too. Loved the Cameron thread. Hell, loved the entire episode. You guys are back in form.
To whoever wrote this episode, well done.
Great episode. Gruesome fight between Jesse and Riley, which is a good contrast to all the terminator-on-terminator brawls. Sad ending though wouldn’t think it would have happened so soon.
Sarahs introspective journey was interesting but maybe not so accessible to all viewers. But when the series main characters clash like they did in this episode both acting and action-wise, the tone of this one is even hard to try and compare with the previous three episodes.
One more thing. The episode also kinda gets a new meaning of having a loved one close to you heart - instead of a photo nothing says love like having a remote detonator.
very good show, kudos to toni , dan, and jeff
loved the riley jesse fight , wanted riley to win
liked john being smarter in this ep
didnt like cameron killing the bird, accidental or not
didnt like the kill switch… why 3 buttons ??? I thought she made him a cool pocket watch !! LOL
Felt sorry for riley, everyone wanted her dead or gone , sarah,derek, cameron, her foster parents, and even as it turns out jesse…. except john and he didnt trust her enough to tell her the truth, so she didnt tell him.. they both messed up !
didnt like cams hand suddenly going bad, at first I thought it was her hand , but must be her chip going bad.
I think riley saw jessi as more of a mother figure, and when she realized jesse’s true plan she just freaked out. jesse isnt so tough after all , as she needed a gun to beat riley !
and I hope the nielsen people were watching tonight !, all of us were .
to
roy batty:
o, my guess? Derek was somehow tortured in that cellar –most likely by some iteration of Cameron, hence his knowing she’s metal later on– and he gave up the location of the Resistance’s tunnel. That’s why he and his companions found it attacked and destroyed after leaving the house and returning to it.
derek and others did give up info on camp/base, but it couldnt be “john’s” cameron,
cause that would mean she was defeated / captured and reprogramed and became johns main T -buddy all in a day or 2 … so sorry but that cant be .
my guess is that it was greys in the cellar getting the info and maybe planting something in subconcious to take effect later on, and thats why they were let go, to be used at a later time.
also if Derek knew the real alison and knew she was dead , it would explain how he knew cam was a T instantly.
and someone should maybe ban john h?
Do you have some information for the ratings? It was a really good episode and I’m curios.
Hard to comment on that one. Cause, up to now, i just dont know what to say. IT WAS MARVELOUS. Great story, really surprising one.
Really liked it. Congrats to all actors, writters, to all team
I really enjoyed it aswell, keep it up!
So much going on, and I think I see where some of this is going.
Riley’s sad story comes to an end. Cameron pulled a lost bird out of the dark and dirty chimney, tamed it, and took it to the wonderful outdoors, only to kill it. And so Jesse found a wild child lost in the underground tunnels of the apocalypse, earned her trust with love and care, took her to the paradise of the past, and killed her there.
At the beginning of “Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today” Cameron tells Derek that she needs explosives to build a small bomb. I always wondered what that bomb was for.
I think I know how John is going to figure out that Cameron didn’t kill Riley. That’s why the Wondercon preview had him asking Derek how long he’d last against Cameron. When John sees Riley’s body, and maybe reads the autopsy, he’ll find out that Riley has lots of bruises and defensive wounds from the fight. That means she stood up to her killer, something that not even a hardened soldier like Derek could do against Cameron. That will convince John that a human murdered Riley. Jesse’s corresponding bruises might help Derek put together what Jesse did.
John is going to try to figure out who told Riley about Judgement Day. He knows he didn’t, Sarah and Cameron wouldn’t, and Derek barely even spoke to Riley. As far as John knows, that leaves one obvious person who could have told Riley about Judgement Day and maybe killed her.
James Ellison.
I for one did not want to see Riley go. She didn’t ask to be put into the situation she was in, and clearly wasn’t mentally prepared for it. I guess I always cheer for the underdog. I could never figure out why people hated her so much. But I couldn’t tell if Jesse shot her with a gun or if it was a tranquilizer. The sound didn’t seem like a gun, even with a silencer.
As for Cameron’s mini-bomb in her head: suppose it goes off, and Ellison finds and brings the body back to the T1001. They hook her up to another scaled down version of the AI engine, and John Henry gets to play house with her, while Mommy T1001 watches her little boy growing up. About as creepy as things could get, come to think of it.
@ Bill: If you noticed, Riley was lying there with her eyes closed, she died.
I meant with her eyes OPENED, as in dead.
We surely need an EDIT BUTTON! lol
Very great episode. Feelt like a terminator episode
Did anyone else notice that the bird at the end wasnt the pigeon?
imo, Cameron killed another bidr. that’s why she knew the repair didnt work.
in fact, the issue wasnt her hand.
it’s her inner conflict of cold hard calculation versus her becoming self controlling over the “mission”.
good stuff.
you guys need to give it up on the “Jesse/Riley were lovers” thing.
i think that is so far fetched and out there.
Jesse brought her back to complete a mission. that is all. to use her as a “means to an end”.
there was no love. no relationship. just a mission.
lovers? come on. no way.
Guys, you outdid yourselves with this one. I know, I know, writers like to do cool literary/expository/deep-thinking episodes, or just blow sh!t up, but you guys honored the fans tonight with that EXCELLENT storyline. Thank you. Keep doing the good work, and I’ll keep praying for a 3rd season. And praying for you guys.
Wow, now this is the Terminator I hope to see every week (for lots of weeks to come in the coming seasons)… the kind of thing that has you screaming things at the screen and has you sitting at the edge of your seat. When the stories and the characters and their unclear futures and the horror of how badly the story might end for your beloved characters really starts to get you and eat you inside… that is when you know for sure that this show has you and that’s pretty much as good as it can possibly get.. for a TV show so excellent job to all involved and it’s going to be an anxious couple of weeks but a good-desperately-curious kind of anxious.
Thank you for the great episode!
HOORRAAYY!!!!!!
Riley finally got killed off. Jesse now needs to go. There was just too many characters with too many subplots. I’m not too worried about Cameron getting killed. IF we can get good episodes like this one for the rest of the season, I think there’s a good chance it will not be cancelled. Beyond a few episodes, season 2 has been a huge dissapointment. Let’s get back to basics and move forward.
Just one word: incredible. The best episode since S&D. Everyone was great in it. Damned did I want Riley to win against Jesse. I don’t care what Jesse’s been trough, I hate her guts! She is just like the machines she so hates, she’ll do everything to get the mission done. Beh.
And the kill switch was just great. What a responsibility. This is going to increase his trust in her I think. At least for now…
If the rest of the season is going to be like this… Well, you better get season 3!! Well done guys, i could feel my heart beating after this episode was done!
I’m making myself sick with worry about Cameron. Good grief
I’m so glad that Riley is gone and I really ant Jessie to die as well.
But so help me if they make Cameron a vegatable there will be hell!
I liked the episode. And of course, if this show gets canceled, I will be devastated.
I’m glad to see a resolution to the Riley story. Riley’s character was for the first time, played well by the actress. I really felt the fear and terror she had at being in the room alone with Cameron. What I don’t get is Cameron should have been able to scan her body temperature and question her why she was so terrified. But Cameron is on the blink. It was awesome how something as physical and simple to act as a twitching hand, was able to add to the drama.
What I find concerning is that all season, the Connors have been in the dark about so much. They are unaware of Jesse… Derek has hidden his contact with her from Sarah… I don’t like this. I don’t see why Derek hasn’t pressed Jesse harder for information about her mission. Is this what resistance soldiers do? Keep secrets from each other. Is it standard protocol? Perhaps it is.
The Connors have been in the dark about Weaver too. I think almost 20 episodes is WAY too long for the Connors to be in the dark about crucial stuff such as Weaver. Why hasn’t Ellison told Sarah he is now working for weaver? I miss Ellison. I like Ellison’s parts, he should have had a greater role to play.
I think if any lessons are learned it is that overindulging in stand alone episodes is rubbing the fans the wrong way. Exploring Cameron’s night time activities in the library was a great episode. But the Sarah Connor arc recently was abysmal. Tracking down the clues and trail to Zeiracorp seems to be a task they’ve handed Sarah to complete. This has had little payoff. In the spoiler, there scene where Sarah and Weaver face off. This better be good. It really better, because it may just make it worth it to have endured Sarah’s torturous journey to get to the bottom of the clues to find Weaver and skynet activity in the present day.
I so hope Weaver actually shape shifts into liquid metal IN FRONT of Sarah Connor’s eyes. That would be terrifying.
Jesse seems to have been sent back because the resistance is concerned how reliant John is getting on Cameron. They wanted to sacrifice Riley and force Cameron to terminate Riley so that John would continue his journey without relying so much on the ‘metal’.
What was done to Riley was pretty cruel really. She lived a short, nasty, brutish existence in the future, and in the present day. Truly explaining why she would try suicide. Child protective services will be right on the Connor’s door step when Riley is reported missing by the foster parents. This is obviously why they are going to have to move house next week, or go on the lamb for while.
I just don’t get how Derek, can sleep with and spend the night with Jesse regularly, and not have any intel on the link between her and Riley. I really don’t like the sound of this ’submarine’ arc coming up, seems like another pointless distraction to me… hope to god it ties up in the end because this show can’t afford to meander about anymore.
COMPLAINT: Why on the official website, is it so damn hard to find a simple short video preview of next week’s episode? I have to go to youtube for one, and even then only last week’s preview is online? That’s pathetic. There’s a ‘next up’ section at the bottom of the main page on the official fox site here, but it links in a loop back to the main page, not to any video preview. I’m talking the preview ads that are broadcast throughout the week, why the hell are they so hard to find online?
If this show does get canceled, please let ME buy the box of spare terminator parts on Ebay. Or maybe Weaver’s awesome glass desk in her office at Zieracorp.
But I don’t want to put a curse on it, let’s hope for the best. FOX executives, don’t make this another Deadwood, Jericho situation where we are denied our awesome shows.
Why doesn’t Weaver just shape shift into the president of the united states after murdering him and direct the military resources and build metal out of coltan from the white house? Maybe that’s season 3. TSSC uses 24’s whitehouse set from Day 7… hahha I’m a loon.
What a great episode! The rest of the season is going to amazing!
Hate Jesse. Hate her. Derek needs to do her in.
Sarah was ready to kill Riley so even if she really believed Cameron killed Riley, she surely wouldn’t have a problem with it. It doesn’t look like John believes Cameron killed Riley either. I think him holding a trigger to her existence is going to be huge as far as him trusting her and vice versa. This show is way smarter than anyone gives it credit for being. It’s intelligent, edgy and original. I hope we get a season 3 so badly!! Being deprived of Summer Glau’s ‘Cameron’ would be a serious diservice for everyone. Her glitch and all the signs pointing to her possible demise at the end of this season only allow Summer to show us and anyone who is watching that she is an amazing talent. The ballet world’s loss is our gain, she is truly a singular talent. Cameron is a blast, I love the character! Looking forward to the next episode!!
And yes, my work and home life suffers from my worry of Cameron. My brother thinks it’s hilarious…..I’ll be quite and he’ll ask what’s up and I’ll say, I’m just wondering what the hell they’re going to do with Cameron at the end of this season.
If this season ends with her being killed it’ll be like the end of Buffy season 2 when I thought Angel was dead all summer long….what a crappy summer that was.
Awesome! This is how it should be done. Cameron giving the kill switch to John in the end was so beautiful and emotional, but don’t you even think about anyone using it. Please Fox give us season 3, if Summer Glau is still on it.
Wow, what a fantastic episode!!
The catfight between Riley and Jesse was so unexpected, as well as Cameron’s glitch to kill the birds when she doesn’t want to as well as not killing Riley when it seems the most logical thing to do in that moment.
But as a “normal” thinking person it is pretty obvious that in the season’s finale there’S something happening with Cameron, but it won’t be terminal….otherwise it wouldn’t make any sense, that Summer stated in an interview, that she is hoping to get at least a third season.
Why would she say something like that, if she wouldn’t be part of the cast anymore because her character has “died”.
So calm down ppl and focus on the real problems….to get a season 3!!!
Thank you so much for this SUPERBE episode!!!
Back on track! Great episode with a good mix of the best characters, This is exactly the type of episode that hooked me in the first place. Although it is the “Sarah Connor Chronicles”, the show should really spin around John and Cameron the way this episode did.
If “Everybody Loves Raymond” got a third season then we have nothing to worry about !
Stop worrying guys we got this. lol
This episode was outstanding.
Cameron talking to the bird was fascinating; it gave me the impression that Cameron the killer robot somehow has a gentle side to her.
Seeing Cameron cutting her arm open for repair was an interesting juxtaposition to the whole thing of suicidal Riley cutting her wrists. It also recalled how Arnold performed repairs on his arm in the first film, the same way pulling out Cameron’s chip in “Vick’s Chip” was reminiscent of T2.
I liked the short and (for once) non-antagonistic dialogue between Sarah and Cameron. I hope we get to see more of that.
The Cameron-Riley confrontation in the shed was pretty tense. I think Cameron was being totally honest when she told John she didn’t know what she was about to do to Riley. The creepy hand glitch and the parallelism with Cameron’s earlier conversation with the bird (recalling the near-deadly parallelism between Cameron’s interactions with Allison and Jody in “Allison from Palmdale”) made the scene that much more tense.
As for Riley’s final scene…I’ve been ambivalent about the character this whole time. Sometimes she annoyed me by being so random (especially in her early episodes), not to mention her habit of getting John into some pretty troublesome situations (jailed in Mexico, the fight over the lighter at the party); other times I felt bad for her (usually in connection with her being abused by Jesse). All in all, I suppose she was just a poor kid who got dragged in way over her head by an unscrupulous person, and she had finally realized it.
In the end, I was totally pulling for Riley in her fight with Jesse. Looks like I wasn’t the only one. And she went out with a bang! Holding your own against a Resistance soldier can’t be easy, but Riley managed that and more. If Jesse hadn’t had that gun… Who knew she was such a badass? Well done, Leven!
Miss Dawson is Ill Today…
And Jesse? Jesse has a lot to answer for–abusing her apparent mother-figure role to control Riley (not to mention killing her when she didn’t comply with the plan to have her killed by Cameron), deceiving Derek while professing to love him, deceiving Sarah and drawing some unhelpful attention to the Baums… Let’s just say someone deserves to have some lead karma sent in her direction. Machines don’t have a choice; they just do what they’re programmed to do. Jesse has no such excuse.
Speaking of machine behavior, the last bit with Cameron and John and the new kill switch had a kind of morbid tenderness to it. I think Cameron has been thinking about and/or working on this for a while, considering her reaction to the Rosie terminator’s auto-destruct and her conversations with Eric in the library. What it shows, and what I hope John understood from it, is that Cameron really does “care” about John. She would rather die at his hands than hurt him. Cameron is essentially placing her life in John’s hands, and I hope John takes that gesture seriously.
One thing I didn’t quite figure out…near the end, a group of cars, which I assume is that lawyer and his bodyguards, passes by Derek’s position, apparently without incident. Did Derek plan that, so that he could come in from behind and pick up the lawyer afterwards, or was that a SNAFU due to Jesse not being where she was supposed to be?
I think I prefer the serialized format, so bring on the rest of the season!
The second-to-last episode is called “Adam Raised a Cain”, which is the title of a song. Does that mean we’ll get to hear Shirley Manson sing again?
And I realize leaving Cameron’s fate hanging in the balance represents the ultimate cliffhanger as far as a lot of this show’s fans are concerned…but PLEASE don’t kill her off!
Riley was the bird.
IMHO Cameron, the TERMINATOR, had no intention of hurting the bird, but her hand was acting on instinct as part of that darned glitch in her chip (they must be some pretty weak chips of Skynet’s to not be able to take a pounding!)
Nor did she want to really hurt Riley. The hand had other thoughts, though.
Now take Jessie, the HUMAN. She NEVER wanted to release Riley… she WANTED her dead. She’s a human without the stress of Skynet’s meddling in her brain and has total control of her actions and yet she is colder and more manipulative than Cameron could ever be.
Jessie was cruel and Cameron was not. At least, that’s how I see it.
And I don’t believe Cameron killed the last bird. It was just another symbolic item that would lead John to question his loyalty to Cameron and think about the kill switch. It was probably killed by a cat. Hmmm… another cat metaphor.
Kea, glad you could appreciate the song, at least.
And I’ll wager somebody $20 that if you had a poll of who should die if you only had two choices to make, Cameron or Sarah (though I like them both), I’d imagine the majority would say… Sarah.
Cameron’s the fan favorite, let’s face facts. Again, kudos to Summer. If she was only half the actress she is, then maybe she wouldn’t have been as popular.
However…
Super!
Nice episode… Really happy the 3 dots thing is over
It was also nice to have more of Cameron and I’m not too sad Riley’s gone. Though I loved the way she went out.
To T-0:
“One thing I didn’t quite figure out…near the end, a group of cars, which I assume is that lawyer and his bodyguards, passes by Derek’s position, apparently without incident. Did Derek plan that, so that he could come in from behind and pick up the lawyer afterwards, or was that a SNAFU due to Jesse not being where she was supposed to be?”
As per Derek’s instructions, Jesse was supposed to be there to obstruct the lawyer’s cavalcade with her car and make them stop, thus allowing Derek to sneak in and grab him. So yes, the operation failed because of Jesse’s absence, and no doubt it will have Derek wondering why she did not make it.
What I liked best about this episode are the additional clues about the existance parallel timelines. The time travel part of the story is what keeps me most interested. The first clue I really picked up on was in season one (Dungeons, I think) where Kyle jokes about carrying one John Conner to safety many times. I the last episode, many grave markers were shown and I got the impression that they were all Kyles. In “Ourselves”, the open discussion between Derek and Jessie about each others judgement date.
Though the season has been wrapped I think it would have been POETIC JUSTICE if Jessie, just before being killed by Derek, see a sliver of the good that is in Cameron.
That Jessie killed and manipulated and meddled and stooped to such low levels for no good reason. She lost her soul for nothing.
Maybe Jessie is injured (not by Cameron) and Cameron stands over her looking down and Jessie thinks Cam’s going to finish her off, instead Cameron reaches out to her (like Arnold to Sarah) to help. Jessie’s face is splashed with a kind of wonder… and is about to reach out to Cam…
And Derek shoots Jessie dead.
Roy,
As Ricky says to Lucy: “Jessie, you have some splainin’ to do!”
And will we now get to enjoy three episodes of John recovering from this?
Holy crap! best episode since “Complications”!!
This one had a really sad overtone. First, it starts off with Cameron talking to the bird. Right off the bad we see that she is messed up in her chip quite a bit more than they have led on. It implies one of two things (maybe both).
1) She is malfunctioning to the point that she thinks talking to the bird is productive.
or
2) She knows the bird can’t understand her, so she is basically talking to herself, much like people do to a baby, or a pet. Why would a machine talk to itself? To me that implies that she is growing in her cognitive skills, becoming more self aware, and more like a living, thinking AI.
When she kills the bird, she almost looks scared of herself, or a little sad. Another leap in AI growth.
Then we have the confrontation with Riley. Cameron is torn apart by what she knows she should do, and what she knows she mustn’t do. We also see in this scene that her mechanical rebuild of her arm didn’t fix the problem, revealing that she is still glitching in her chip, and she now knows it. Her fears (and the fact that she can even HAVE fears is another step in the emotion growth department) of being “a bomb waiting to go off” are coming true. The fear in Riley’s teary eyes in this scene was very intense too. The way she cornered Cameron in between a logical rock-and-a-hard-place by flat out telling her that “you’re John’s sister. You can’t do anything” was brilliant, not only from a writing standpoint, but from the character’s standpoint. She’s a quick witted. Also, the way she threw herself into John’s arms once he arrived seemed to be the product of genuine fear and the need for comfort, rather than part of her mission’s act. Awesome, suspenseful scene, and great acting by both Rambin and Glau. Highlight of the episode.
Next, we have Riley and John, both wanting to confess to each other, and lay everything out into the open, but both know they can’t. Another scene where I was on the edge of my seat. I was disappointed that neither of them had the courage to fess-up, but it was still a good scene, and paved the way for Riley to go confront Jesse (which was ANOTHER great scene). Heartbreaking for Riley because she KNOWS that John is hiding so much from her, while John only suspects that Riley is withholding info from him.
Jesse & Riley Fight:
I did NOT see this coming. At ALL. I figured Riley would go back to Jesse and complain that she is more scared than ever, and Jesse might smack some courage into her or something, so when Riley snuck up on her and tried to choke her, I was blown away. They REALLY gave Riley some depth that we didn’t know existed here. We also got to see just how cold hearted Jesse is. She saw Riley as nothing more than a pawn in her game, while Riley poured her heart out to Jesse, and put all her trust in her. That trust was shattered, and her heart broken into a million fragments once she put the pieces of the puzzle together about Jesse’s ultimate plan. The fight was suspenseful, and I while I knew Jesse wasn’t going to be defeated or killed, I didn’t know if Riley was going to subdue her and escape, or bite the dust. I have never been a Riley hater, but to read how some of the most rabid Riley haters on the terminator wiki forums were ever rooting for her in that fight just shows how well written this episode was.
Finally, we come to probably the saddest scene of the most heartbreaking episode of this series so far. Cameron gives John a “kill-switch”. IMO, everything she said to Riley in the shed was also a reflection on herself. She is “unreliable and a threat” and “what am I going to do [with myself]?” and “You can’t stay here anymore”. Heavy foreshadowing right here. Cameron is going to be the one to leave in the end. Also, giving John the kill-switch is (I believe) the ultimate act of trust and “love”. In the words of Summer Glau, “she loves him in her own way”. I think this is it. It’s not going to be anything romantic, or lovey-dovey… it’s stuff like this. Proving to him that she is willing to sacrifice herself for him. But will John ever be able to push the button? I have a feeling John will end up dismantling the kill-switch in a return gesture of trust and “love”.
It’s obvious who the “A-team” writers are for this show. The ones that wrote this episode also wrote “Allison From Palmdale”, “Mr. Ferguson Is I’ll Today”, “The Demon Hand” and “Vick’s Chip”. All brilliant and suspenseful episodes. Fox…whatever you’re paying Toni Graphia and Daniel T. Thompson, DOUBLE IT!!!
Beautiful episode, guys!
A lot of adverts is a good thing people!
Loved this ep. I too felt a little sorry for Riley, poor heart…..but, moving on, it had to happen.
Worried about Cameron though………..
Gregory,
I know… but I still don’t have to like them.
I hope that Cameron isn’t the one to go in the end. Cause to be honest it wouldn’t do the show any good. Coach, I can now see the extreme difference beteween a great episode with Cameron and all that. So I take back my comments I said about ya or whatever you know ur stuff.
Didn’t really expect Riley to die, and boy I really don’t like Jessie. I don’t care if there is a reason for her acting the way she does cause of her experience on the Carter but I really don’t like her.
Great episode, and I can’t wait till next week though I have to wait till Saturday to see it since I work at night. Hope the next episode is just as good.
To ScotWithOne_t:
Good points all. And regarding…
“But will John ever be able to push the button? I have a feeling John will end up dismantling the kill-switch in a return gesture of trust and “love”.”
I am afraid you will be proven partially wrong there. My guess? John will be tempted to use the kill-switch but will choose to refuse and trust Cameron… and right then, somebody else WILL PRESS the kill-switch. Most likely, Derek or Jesse, although writers may make Sarah do it to provoke a rift between mother and son that they will later explore and exploit dramatically.
It’s probably going to be Sarah who pushes “the button.”
She’s the betrayer. IMHO.
As for the leaving bit… you could take that many ways with Cameron. But if it’s DEAD DEAD then the show will be in peril for a Season 3 anyway. The fans will probably pack it in and leave in droves.
Riley did the dying… unless it now means ANOTHER big death, and Josh wasn’t being wishy washy with the truth again.
Unless Cameron was just testing John’s resolve and it only shuts her down in case of another “kill John” episode.
Again, I bring up a possible inconsistency. John had a chip interface device… why couldn’t John tap into Cam’s chip, access the uncorrupted data, and “talk” to Cameron via the device and Cameron could step him through her repairs.
He learns valuable information in his training from Cameron, and Cameron doesn’t go to that scrap heap in the sky.
Roy Batty,
I don’t know about that. It would almost seem a bit “deus ex machina” to actually USE the kill-switch if/when she goes bad again. I think it is more of a vehicle for character development and drama than a practical plot device. I’m a bit biased though, because I’d be sad if they wrote Cameron out of the show (unless of course they are planning on this being the end of the show with not 3rd season in mind). It’s true that the “protector” always get’s kills serving his mission based on the established pattern of the films, but in this case, it would render the show Terminator-less. That would leave them with only two options:
1) continue the show with no endo-based Terminators, good or bad (unless you could John Henry, who needs to be plugged into a room-sized server farm to operate.
or
2) send more through time for them to fight, or team up with.
Either option is less than stellar.
More bad news, ratings are down again. Not by just a little, but dramatically for the 4th week in a row.
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/03/dollhouse-terminator-week-four-ratings.html
Well, there is also the option that her chip gets destroyed in the final episode (because someone uses the kill-switch). If it doesn’t come to a third season, well… frankly I would kick Josh Friedman in the nuts (no offence). =)
But if it does come to a third season, she could quite easily brought back. Maybe future-John sends back another “Cameron chip” to replace the old one (which got destroyed), or present-John reprogramms another chip, or maybe he has made a backup of her chip, or whatever…
I am 98% sure that something will happen to Cameron… and I know I will be furious if it doesn’t come to a third season and the fans are left with this huge cliffhanger…
So PLEASE FOX! 3rd season!
Well, Watchmen came out yesterday…
However, I think this show didn’t put enough emphasis on the staples of “Terminator”… which we have discussed before.
Heavy Sci-fi
Terminator and AI interaction like in the movies
Action
Suspense
Intensity
and really balls-to-the-wall Drama
TSCC was slow moving… that’s not all bad… but when Fox promotes slam-bam action! as if this were another “24″ or other pumped up show, and this show doesn’t produce that Terminator “flava” some people expect, then what do you think would happen?
Let’s take this episode for example. Yes, it was a much better story than for most of the season, but again… it was very much a dramatic piece. The action doesn’t seem to ramp up until the very last few episodes.
They show up too late in the game.
Now, we may not even get those until the Blu-ray and DVD are released if the ratings are accurate.
Chad, a drop was expected this week considering the Watchmen released yesterday. this is going to be an issue that comes up any time a must see movie releases with the show being on a Friday time slot. also, Terminator is the most DVRr’d show on Fridays, and that hasn’t been accounted for yet this week. If last weak it saw a 37% increase due to that, maybe that 17% will be made up for. just maybe. I think its safe to assume it wont see an increase from previous weeks, but at the very least it can be about the same. the Watchmen crowd of anyone would be people to own and use DVRs.
Now, the question remains:
What will Josh Friedman do to MAKE SURE the show is viable from a ratings standpoint if a Season 3 is granted on the CW or another network… since the advertisers seem to like TSCC?
They can’t continue with a steady-Freddie pace, they can’t rely on just cerebral musings on Sarah’s mental state, they need those core staples of the franchise emphasized. They need more BSG intensity… they need MORE Cameron and MORE Jameron to keep the majority of fans happy and satiated. They need more S/FX to realize the Future more distinctly. they need more upbeat moments and more humor to counteract the morbidity that has overcome the story line, etc.
Will Josh be willing to change things quite a lot, and basically make this like a whole new show in order for it to strengthen those viewership numbers?
The fans, I bet, are waiting for an answer.
excellent episode, riley is finally out of the picture even tho i would have rathered they rid of jesse(evil jesse!!) now that shes gone jesse will blaim cameron, derek will not be so sure considering she never showed up shes all bruised somethings up, sarah will be understanding even if cameron did or didnt killl her and john will believe cameron, i dont see how jesse will gain trust over the connors? unless derek gets completly manipulated by jesse and (possible spoilers ahead) forces john to give up the switch, and jesse gets her hands on that switch john will kill jesse and derek will be killed by sarah, cameron’s exoskeleton will be damaged so bad after her fight scene against weaver, cameron will not die but will be extremly damaged at seasons end. Season 3 will be all about weaver + john henry vs the connors and cameron ( leaving derek, jesse, riley completly out of the picture). i think that season 3 will be very much like season 1 which is what we all want season 2 is all charecter development eventually everyone will appreciate this wonderful show give us another season fox!!!
Dekker said John will take down Jesse. Shirley said Weaver’s story will be wrapped up.
And who knows how final Josh will make Cameron and Sarah and John’s rift in the final act if we are allowed to see it, that is.
And we are on pins and needles about Fox. They didn’t treat this show very well to begin with… and neither did other parties… so this combo put TSCC on wobbly feet.
Will TSCC’s parent companies, WB and Halcyon, pull the plug, or will they have a master plan to shore things up and make things viable again, so that they can ride on T4-T6’s possible success?
I Think TSCC is dead. I’m said, but is true.
The Last episode was soo great! I liked it…
I just feel so very sad for the cast. What a great, great cast!!
I think we should all try to stay positive. All the negativity in the last few weeks could have driven away potential fans who have seen the promos and googled TSCC. This episode was amazing and if the back 5 are of the same or better quality we need to get the fans to come back.
@Thecolours John said that Cameron wasn’t built to terminate other robots, what he said previously about Cameron in “Self Made Man” about being one of the most advanced killing machines still holds true because robots are programmed to kill humans not other machines.
I hope it doesn’t get canceled, since the episodes were great. Plus a cliffhanger will leave everyone wondering what the hell would happen next. I’m really on pins and needles about Fox. They have pulled shows before (Firefly) when the ratings dropped but critics loved it. I hope they don’t do it again.
Remember to write in because thats how Farscape on SciFi was given another chance. Plus I think that maybe the show should go to SciFi thats what Stargate SG-1 did and it lasted 10 yrs.
I just hope the show survives.
Definitely stay positive, this isn’t over yet.
Would a network like Sci-Fi have the necessary budget for all of the CG effects?
Snake, Universal did for BSG and now Caprica.
WB does for Smallville on the CW and a new superhero show (can’t remember what it was about) that will replace it.
I have asked the moderator on Project Fox to add a discussion of Terminator to the board. If anyone else is a member of Project Fox, please chime in as well.
All voices must be heard. All suggestions must be heard.
We do want a Season 3. Let’s see how we can, together, get it done!
note : 3 million viewer (-0.38)…
3 million… nice… People in the States, please turn on those goddam TVs on Fridays!
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Of course you guys tricked me over and over again. The only thing I got right was that since Cameron’s accident, she has been trying to figure out how to terminate herself since John won’t do it. What was unclear was whether or not she was actually capable of self-termination. This episode she states that she is not. I assume this was a little feature programmed into her by John in the future since the terminator in T2 was not only capable of terminating himself, but capable of doing it against John’s direct order to stop.
Despite all my guesses being wrong: all the revelations in this episode hung together perfectly, and not one single explanation sounded forced–and I really, really hope Jesse gets hers (sorry Derrick).
For me, the emotional drama of this episode was action packed; it’s why Terminator is one of the only shows I watch, why I bought the blu-ray of season one, and why I bought the CD. Unfortunately, to get a third season I’m pretty sure you’re going to have to have Cameron shoot something, kill something, twist something into small pretzels, break through walls, demolish structures, do spectacular jumps, falls, crashes, and generally be either a very scary robot or a very helpful robot on a weekly basis if you want a bigger, though somewhat less sophisticated audience.
Love TSCC.
Like everybody else has already said this has been a god tier episode on par with Samson and Delilah. And now let’s keep the finger crossed for a third season!!!
Yes, this was another great episode !
But how can it be that crap like ghost whisperer hit 11 million viewers ?!?
Really, i can’t believe this.
I love this show. I hope Jesse dies soon. I wasn’t a massive fan of Riley but I was rooting for her instead in the cat scrap. Oh and if Cameron’s termination wasn’t signposted in this episode then I will be very suprised!
Dan I’m on PF, when’s the discussion? I know I have more than a few things I’d like to say.
if next week the show is under 3 million viewer, we can say byebye saison 3
I love Jessie. I love her toughness and emotional deadness and that she has a personality that has clearly been shaped by the future. This was an amazing episode and I was so glad it was back on form because I had become a bit worried and was not quite so sure that this really was my favorite tv show. More exciting shows, less crazy Sarah. Crazy Sarah equals cancellation.
I hope Josh is ending the season in a way that makes season three a clean slate for new fans. With the Terminator movie coming out that is the best way to sell FOX on a renewal. no heavy mythology so that newbies can’t join in.
Killing Cameron is killing the golden goose. If she dies, she will come back somehow. Time travel is great for that sort of thing. It’s like Buffy with no Buffy, it just isn’t done.
jessie is a BITCH SHE MUST DIE
nick85,
I just asked today since I didn’t see one on there. You have to submit a request to the moderator first. So, I suggest that you also suggest a discussion be started on Terminator.
I suggest you suggest a suggestion as well!
Like John, let’s grow a big pair, and TAKE BACK THE F–KING FUTURE!!!!!!!
God Bless America!! Who’s with me??!!
I call it the “CAMERON WILL BE BACK!” campaign.
Base it off of the T2 model of getting fans and new viewers of a 1984 low budget, indie-sci-fi flick to watch a big budget sequel in 1991.
Here are just a few of the promos that ran in 1990:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlLCqVKwWJk (Teaser)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWutJqsk0IE (Trailer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C2dGRoaZ1A (original Guns ‘n’ Roses music video)
If anything happens to Cameron, anything at all… I swear to you I will get very choked up. Honestly. There could be tears. ^^
No, this was the best episode for me since the season opening. I’m finally excited about this show again and I can’t wait for next friday. Good Job and thank you!!
And you have to love Crazy Cameron, the way she speaks to birds and Rileys is just hilarious and creepy at the same time.
Hey Dan, I just submitted mine and added details that with Fri the 13th premiering at the same time The Good Wound aired and now with Watchmen at the same time as Ourselves Alone that those two alone are a factor in the ratings drop.
That and this who media frenzy and online rumors and speculation are really just putting a real pessimistic and it’s already too late it’s all over look on things. But that’s all it is! It’s a look. THere are still five good episodes left to prove what this show is made of - Coltan. So what really matters is promoting and getting audience members to see just one of these last episodes to reverse this spiral and to help Terminator take back Friday nights.
DVRing won’t get T:SCC a third season, people in front of the TV will!
Absolutely outstanding episode, all that fans were waiting for. After all the psycho stuff, this one has recaptured the real essence of the show. Hope the remaining eps keep this vibe and audience finally saves the show!!!!
Great episode, what I tune in for. Only complaint is were two episodes in since the Hk looking ship came out of the pond and it’s like it never happened.
Dan,
Eva rules, going to blast out live at blues alley, now that you mention it.
Great episode. 10/10
To the execs at FOX: The producers of T/SCC can kill off anyone they want; Derek, Sarah, John, I could care less. But if they touch so much a hair on Cameron’s head, I will never watch another minute of anything that has FOX written on it, EVER.
This episode was just awesome
definetly a 10/10
we do want a S3!!!
Ghost Whisperer has plenty of easy emotional traps like the Jamerons would love. It requires no brains whatsoever to watch. Hence the 11 millions.
OTOH it has none of the P2P distribution or international success that T:SCC enjoys.
Whatever happens, season 3 or not, I’ll always be grateful to Josh and team who had the courage to stick with their plan rather than to degrade the quality of the show. Watch the next 5 episode and you’ll see where the whole season lead: mounting suspense, mounting excitement, ever more action without any loss in subtlety and intelligence.
T:SCC will be one to remember forever: who will be able to name three of Melinda’s ghosts in 5 years?
GREAT, epi, I love the show completly!!! I felt sorry for Riley, I never thought that could happen
Loved it, i never thought i could feel sorry for Riley.
Best ep for a long time. We need a season 3. everyone should sign this petition to keep T:SCC on the air:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?scc2009&1
Very very nice episode!
9/10 for me
just hope there will be more seasons to come , the terminator series is capable of telling so much more (im)possible stories.
greetings from germany ( if i’d lived in the states, i would turn my tv(’s) on, all of them *g*)
PS:
Cameron rocks, best choice for a terminatrix ever ^^ Kristanna Loken wasn’t bad either, but no challenge for cam
Yes innocent the H&C crowd is enormous here. They fall for moronic platitudes without any substance. They run on emotion and are devoid of intellect. They are indeed a very destructive force. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
You can’t blame Watchmen, Monday Night Football, or whatever wrestling show is on. (I lose track on what they’re called any more since the WWF was renamed WWE).
The problem is that the writing killed the show. The direction Friedman was going was discouraged by even the Fox executives, Friedman even admitted so. The execs were right, the viewers weren’t interested in a crazy Sarah side story. The audience wasn’t interested in focusing 43 minutes on dreams and psychobabble over several episodes.
Episodes 14-16 scared away a major portion of the Live Viewing Audience. That is what matters. Not iTunes, not DVR, not Hulu.
TSCC simply will not be able to recover the 4.5 million viewers it needs to reach for a renewal. The only way it could is if Terminator Salvation was released in a week or two, sparking an interest in the franchise. Right now the show is getting obliterated on Fridays by the weak competition.
A show doesn’t get canceled based on a few boring eps alone. I see no reason it cant recover if the remainder of the back 9 keep the pace up like last night’s ep did. And you cant deny that somethings get in the way, taking viewers it would otherwise get. Why else would Friday be considered the death slot? (and for the record I never blamed wrestling).
Ding dong the witch is dead…
Seneca if they kill John then the whole season is over, and the series, and everything. By killing John it kills off the Terminator universe. Skynet would win.
If you watched the wondercon thing, you’ll see summer says “I really hope WE get a third season” she might die or go crazy, but she isn’t going away. I don’t know what is going to happen. But she is staying. Also kick ass episode and Sarah’s story lines suck cause you are just watching this depressing character and like uh, come on lets get on to something better. Summer smiles, people want to feel good at the TV show.
Sweet episode, was bored with a few of them. Made that one chick look like a major ich. Want to see more missions involving skynet. Great acting this episode.
Great episode! Loved every second of it. Pure awesomeness!
Joel,
You do hit on a key and salient point, here, about wanting to feel “good” watching a TV show.
I must go back to the reality on the ground:
THE ECONOMY.
It makes people NOT want to watch a lot of dark and depressing and morbid shows. They want to feel good about something, something uplifting and inspiring.
Yes, it can be deep, but still hopeful and not so dark, or at least mixing the light with the dark. Terminator 2 ended on an upbeat note, and you felt excited after coming out of the theater. It also left you with something to think about.
Good episode. Definitely the best acting job Leven Rambin has done on the series. I could really feel her fear of Cameron (and rightly so). And I thought it was impossible to hate Jesse more than I did! Guess I was wrong!
I love the serialized episodes!
They do so much more for the show than a random “Sarah is crazy” episode.
Dan:
You bring up an excellent point. The economy may be this shows biggest enemy. As businesses get squeezed they are going to look to cut dead wood. I don’t think that this show falls in that category but I fear the suits might. I’d like to know if T:SCC is profitable or not. If it’s turning a buck or even breaking even then they might look to cut elsewhere.
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
LONG LIVE “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
HIP, HIP, HOORAY
20/10
i’m not sure who wrote tonight’s episode, but whoever it was: props to you. this episode got back into the swing of things and, really, i sort of wish this type of episode were front and center of the tv series. it would certainly help ratings. the fact is that the sarah-centric episodes aren’t really doing it for the audience. whether sarah is a difficult character to write or the audience just doesn’t respond to her is neither here nor there. it’s simple, really. when episodes revolve around sarah and her mind, a lot of the conflict between the rest of the characters is lost. writing about internal struggles is fine, but not at the expense of the dynamism that makes any terminator-related project worth the watch. terminators are a threat to EVERYONE’S sanity and well-being- not just sarah’s. so why minimize or exclude them?
Just watched it again…what a great episode.
Are we sure its not a stun device instead in Cameron’s head…Oh god that rhymed!!!
Unless its really a tracker for Cameron…and John has to use it next season to find her….There BETTER be a S3!!!! Maybe he deactivates it.
Dan I was wondering about the last bird we saw. I mean how many times have you found a dead bird in the back yard. It could have hit a window and hurt isn’t, killed by a cat.
Why would Cameron knowingly go after another bird.
I guess we can assume Sarah is going to betray John by trying out the kill switch.
RE: ScotWithOne_t I agree and posted about that way up top…about 100 responses ago. I felt this ep showed Cameron is growing.
And did anyone else want Cameron to make John pancakes?!?!?! Ok just me then.
As for ratings…I think more and more people are relying on the DVR then ever before.
TSCC does good overseas, does well online downloads and lots of online fans.
Also look at the great reviews we gave this ep. I think DVR will be up the number of people watching. But like Kyle Maloney said…why else is Friday night considered a death slot…because people have other things to do. At least they are recording it and watching it at a later date.
But write Warner Bros: scott.rowe@warnerbros.com
FOX: askfox@fox.com
Just in case.
And if FOX does not want the show give the WB a reason to find TSCC a new home. Anywhere please. I mean with this kind of great writing this just shows how great and smart this show is. And JF here’s to a great pitch for a S3.
To be honest I was never happy that FOX had the show. I never felt the show would fit. I never pictured FOX as a sci-fi network. So I would be much happier if TSCC would move else where.
RE: Dan I am glad to hear your on Project FOX as well. I need to get on a different computer. I keep seeing all the comments, just can’t post. But keep bombarding them with TSCC stuff.
Let them know the international fans can’t watch FOX.com or those numbers would be up. And that DVR’s are the way to go on Friday nights. I would love to see TSCC on the CW or elsewhere.
RE: Metallian it doesn’t work like that. I watch TSCC live and tape the show. I watch it with a number of people but to the ratings company I don’t count because I don’t have a ratings box. I can’t ask for one because they are given randomly to people. So for all we know 5 million are watching live but only 3 million are counted. That’s why the old ratings system sucks. What people need to do is keep DVRing the show. That shows a true count of who’s watching. Not how many people. I could have a 100 people watching and still not count.
DVR it, watch it online.
Now here’s an idea. For adverting the show. They did a commercial spot where people can submit commercial idea’s and if they pick your idea then it will air during 24 and you win some kind of prize. I would love to see some people pitch a TSCC mountain dew commercial!!! Again it would be free advertisement.
http://www.mountaindewfox24.com
As for the advertises this time around lots of variety just like last time. Only this time I noticed most ads were geared towards females. Oil of Olay, Hand cream, Olive Garden get together with the girls. The commercials had a different feel to them. I just noticed that.
And would it have killed them to product place Sarah using Ajax….just saying.
We need to keep fighting because the show is back on track and after that ep we NEED a S3…anywhere.
5/5 stars for that episode.
Josh said “the death of a loved one” third times at his blog some weeks ago. Riley was first, I think that Jesse is second (even if no1 actually love her), but I cant believe that Cameron would be 3rd. Maybe Derek (he was always against her) is going to steal that switch from John.. It would be so wrong. I cant look if she dies. Cant tolerate that.
Anyway, why there is _three_ buttons on that detonator? I dont believe that its “three dots” -.-
Thank you, so very very much, for bringing back the show we love. It *almost* makes up for the last three episodes.
JUST WATCH IT AGAIN ALSO, SO awesome, just what we needed to ensure a S3, hopefully.
Help, I have a q or a couple, did the makers say that T3 is no part of the story and that TSCC is after T2, and is the new Terminator, SALVATION also after T2?
Does this mean we have two different stories?
I also heard that T Salvation is not called T4 because it is going to be a new start of a new triology, is WB or hayclon w/e, starting all over again starting from the future then sending back Kyle reese to protect sc? IM SO CONFUSED, please any 1 help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope this season leads into the movie this summer, I don’t see a third season cause of the movie but if there is and Summer Glau drops off the show. Don’t expect me to watch it anymore! She helps make this show interesting and yes too much Sarah! I bet the Summer Glau signed up for another show and is walking because of the less face time. They messed up big time with that!!
Don’t forget about Charlie - he is a loved one too.
Killing Cameron is going to kill the show, so I don’t think they’ll do it.
Summer is new Termnator idol, show just won’t work without her.
The weeks go by waaaay too slowly
Ah well, I’m going to re-watch the episode another 20 or so times and then hopefully it’ll be Friday again… obsessive much?
@ Dwnldz_5
But of course Derek loves Jesse and not just a little!
Haven’t you seen what they’ve gone through together? Haven’t you seen in what kind of rage the apparition of Fisher did put Jesse, all that because he tortured her lover?
Haven’t you been watching the show? How can something that glaringly obvious escape anyone?
FANTASTIC episode! Thank you for going back to what we all love. Please don’t kill off Cameron, the show can’t go on without her and John’s relationship.
How many episodes are left in this season? Why are so many fans worried that Fox might cancel the show? This is better than any of the other “stuff” on TV. It’s our escape from troubled times.
Riley is finally gone. Yay!
Riley died, you could make the argument that John loved her - Riley certainly thought so
Charley will be back and if he dies, which is the only real loved one Sarah has besides John, then that’s two - John also cares for the guy pretty deeply
And Jesse is a given, Derek cares for her, so that’s three
According to TD though someone is supposed to abandon him and another betray him. Running out of characters fast. I don’t think Cameron will die because that would be a real Hari Kari regardless S3 is okayed or not
It’s a paradox, but it seems… the one who loves more in this ep is Cam, giving her life to John’s hands. She’s fantastic , Summer Glau is.
Innocent, I have seen all episodes, but I didnt think clear when I wrote that -.- Never mind that.
Well, I hope that Cameron wont die, that explosive in her head is just so creepy.
Kea:
Cameron [passing through the Terminator set kicking and shooting the crap out of bad guys and Terminators that pop up for the kill as she struts along in her leather clad outfit]: Besides motor oil, there’s only one beverage I drink on a regular basis to keep me in top fighting form…I do the DEW! [stops when she sees John Connor, wraps her arms around him seductively, and looks right at the screen with a Terminator-like glare] Do you?
Could work, eh?
—-
As for the second bird… I didn’t think Cam killed it. It was just there as a reminder to John about her glitch and the possibility of her going nutty again (Sarah is a bad influence on her!). Anything could have… a cat, electric wires, etc.
As as a reminder to all Project Fox dudes and dudettes… be sure to ask for a Terminator discussion on how we can get that Season 3 and how we can promote it and make the show bullet proof once more.
I think us fans can do a better job than the Fox ad execs have done thus far. It couldn’t hurt.
If you don’t try for anything else, try for Summer’s sake!
\OMG this was a fantastic episode. And at the end I was literally going OMG out loud did NOT see that end coming. I actually liked Riley at that point. I never liked the character but the actress is really good. This was an amazing episode.
Lena…absolutely my favorite actress ever. She’s just brilliant. There’s not a scene she’s in that she’s not amazing. The opening scene was incredible. Summer, with the bird. I was thinking “oh please don’t kill the bird” and I loved how she took him outside and talked to it but she killed it anyway apparently by accident. Beautiful if sad scene an Summer was fantastic. I was even impressed with the woman who played Jesse.
This was just an incredible episode. The only negative for me is the Cameron/John stuff. While others see some shippy stuf there, I just don’t see it.
Karla,
Speaking as a “shipper” here…
Quoting from one of my other all-time favorite James Cameron films, The Abyss:
“…You have to look with better eyes than that.”
Seneca if they kill John then the whole season is over, and the series, and everything. By killing John it kills off the Terminator universe. Skynet would win.
Not if Cameron is pregnant with John’s child.
The episode was great! But I want to know which of the writers had a new car that got bombed by a pigeon
The second bird was obviously electrocuted. Check out the power lines above it.
HELLO ABC!! We are watching! We like this show!
Fantastic episode, although I did grow to appreciate the previous weeks. Looking forward to this season and next.
Seneca,
You’ve pushed into the realm of the I-950 or other officially JC licensed and sanctioned hybrid lines of Terminators. More battle-ready human than machine (nanites are involved), but can be the product of advanced cyborg and human… um, “relations.”
It might be interesting to explore.
@ Dwnldz_5
It’s all right: the show certainly lends to many interpretations. For example I don’t believe that Sarah has become a killing machine at the end of her trip. Her giving up on killing Riley does prove it IMHO.
As to where we would like to see the show go… My favorite ending would be that Cameron becomes Skynet.
So, you see that everyone can find what they look for in this show.
Have a nice time, that’s what important.
have we actually established that writing:
scott.rowe@warnerbros.com
askfox@fox.com
will help to keep the show on-air?
Dear Writers.
Can we please have more feel-good episodes from this show, which is largely dealing with characters attempting to cope with/prevent the upcoming apocalypse? It’s just not funny enough, dammit. Surely it’s not that hard to inject a bit of comedy into the proceedings? Maybe add a laugh-track, that’d help. Or some slapstick. Or more comedy deaths, cos Riley’s just wasn’t that funny.
Cheers.
Innocent,
I’d like to have a more hopeful ending that is in keeping with JC’s original vision.
Even if they are still battling and keep pushing JD farther and farther away… the fight to save the day continues on that long black highway into the mists.
I’d MUCH rather have Sarah be the hero who saves the lives of John and Cameron in the final, final, final climax.
What does that tell us?
Sarah has come around to her original speeches in T2 about the Terminator being just as good as a human for John, and that if a machine, of all things, can change and see the light, then there is real hope for the future of mankind. And her speech in “The Demon Hand” has come to pass for Cameron.
Sarah loves John and Cameron EQUALLY. She sees no distinction.
She has done what any good parent worth their salt MUST do… protect and nurture. Even the life of a machine.
Human = machine = human = machine
And so forth…
Go back to Terminator 1’s ending as a homage. Only this time it’s John and Cameron going off the grid.
Sarah was alone and vulnerable, without her Kyle… not this time.
John has a partner in crime to help in what may come.
EVERYONE NEEDS A HELPING HAND.
I’m amazed no one’s corrected Lee; Arnold in T2 could NOT self-terminate. He needed young JC to lower him into molten iron. It’s more or less a set thing in the Terminator universe.
I really enjoy this show; I’ve always wanted to see more of the Terminator universe ever since I tried to modify Cyberpunk 2020 to do the Judgement Day universe.
Pigeon = Riley
Sky Rat = Tunnel Rat
Now, I see where they were going with this!!
It is kinda a basic premise of many scifi books to explore what happens when an AI becomes self conscious. In season 1 Cameron has worked mainly inside the parameters of her preset programming.
Because of the glitch her behaviour isnt anymore limited to those preset parameters which could give her an opportunity to develope a free will. So in the future she might not work towards a certain goal because of her programming but because she has made an conscious decision to do so.
Also we should keep in mind that robots in themselves arent necessarily bad for human evolution. Skynet just happens to be an AI gone bad. There might also be a future where humans and intelligent AI´s live and work together. This could be something that Jesse (as a theoretical purist) might want to prevent from happening. Skynet on the other hand wants the opposite to happen.
Well Dan, I thought that my ending was hopeful. It stems from the conviction that the emergence of robot life through some Skynet matrix is unavoidable, that it is a natural evolution for life on Earth. More and more people, teams, organizations will always be inventing it. No matter how many of them Sarah and co destroys one will eventually come to maturity. So why not cut to the chase and have an ally at the head of it? Thinking of it, that wouldn’t be the end of the adventure by any means, just the start of a new chapter.
But I love that you give the main role into the evolution of John AND Cameron to Sarah: she’s my very favorite character, the most human, warmest, courageous and Lena my favorite actor in T:SCC. It will take quite a turnaround for Sarah to become the guide that’ll help Cameron to become all she can be, let alone love her as an equal to her son. I’d be quite content if she recognize Cameron as an equal to herself and as a worthy successor.
OK, let’s realize your program. Then could Cameron become the mother of a whole new world? Please. Also I’m with Littleb: could we have some more humor along the way?
Tilt,
That’s what I was thinking when I typed my outline above.
Skynet and its faction wants ONLY machines.
Jesse and her faction wants ONLY humans.
John and Cameron may be wanting to try for BOTH as in a co-existence, a co-habitation of the Earth to get it back on its feet and rebuild what they can, since the war has become a stalemate and nothing positive is happening.
That’s why in some interesting fan fictions out there in the blogosphere the use of a new kind of child from John and Cameron is used as a catalyst for unification, for hope. Some say that there are any number of human children left without parents due to the war, or the fact that someone’s mother is no longer living and has been replaced… they take one in as their own.
Sarah fears, in part, that John hanging around with Cameron will rob him of children of his own, of heirs (as any mother who wants grandchildren would fear)… what if she’s wrong?
Innocent…
see above
How significant for John to give Riley one last chance to speak the truth and protect (and be part of) the family. Toni, was that a slight smile on her face as she died knowing that, in the end, she hadn’t betrayed John Connor? Or did it reflect what Winston and the nurse told Sarah about dying being easier? Fantastic writing job by both but, Toni, you do put the right words in Cameron’s mouth, but even Riley had a sympathetic moment. Jesse is a machine and, regardless of some audience members squemishness or simple naivete she obviously controlled Riley the same way she controlled Derek. Her weakness is underestimating her victims. Tjat will cost her dearly.
Two random thoughts-I believed the basement mystery proved that Skynet had used the strategy of capture, reprogram and release that had worked so well for the Resistence. Hard to imagine Cameron as a torturer (I know you-I know you, too) but as a silent witness, Manchurian Candidate-style. Derek has a big reveal coming about resisting and being human.
Second, would Savannah count as “a loved one” (or, gasp, John Henry)? Garret Dillahunt could be Boris Karloff creepy. (That’s meant as a compliment, Mr. Dillahunt. You’re still an actor’s actor!8
Man David,
That would suck if Savannah was killed… as the other death of a loved one.
But does Riley count in the three “loved ones” deaths? I don’t know if anyone really loved her per se. Many fans included. Poor Riley… just another [tunnel] rat ’til the end.
I think Charley counts, though I wish it wasn’t him. I liked his “regular Joe gets caught up in some freaky shit” character. However, if he tries to take out Cameron. I’d say good riddance!
Speaking of that… what if it’s John who has to kill Charley in order to protect Cameron?
Sarah would not like that one iota.
Loved this episode.
Keep up the good work… no more crazy Sarah eps, cause she is not crazy.
Hmmm… Could it be Weaver that fixes Cameron?
Hope Derrick doesn’t die, but I can’t wait to hear the back story on why Jesse is so bent against helpful machines. I hope that doesn’t take a full episode though.
I hope you get your seasons 3 and 4… no less, no more.
LP
Dan, John most definitively loved Riley on some level and quite a bit I’d bet.
As for being “just another tunnel rat”, she wasn’t IMHO. She surely earned my respect when she got rid of an inquisitorial Cromartie. Coming from the future she had to be fully aware that she was dealing with metal and of what he liable to do if she was discovered. How she played her part then showed a lot of guts. She demonstrated her courage again when fighting the Jesse, a fully trained soldier.
Her only weakness came from being an abandoned child: I can’t fault her for that. It made her emotionally needy, falling easily for the manipulative Jesse.
@ David
I think remembering that JF specically said that Savannah would be “in mortal danger”. I don’t think that it means that she’ll die.
That would make me quite angry with the writers if they used a child character that way.
Ever wonder who John and Cameron’s first “special” child would turn out to be?
It’s Arnold The Terminator! Now you know.
His life in photos:
(Baby photo— ahhh, how cute!)
http://www.deanguitars.com/userpics/lib5/Get%20to%20the%20Choppa.JPG
(His first birthday party! Adorable!)
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/38/8/arnold_schwarzenegger.0.0.0×0.400×306.jpeg
(Training for resistance military duty– all must serve!)
http://jokes.stevenwongblog.com/wp-content/uploads/arnold-schwarzenegger-in-action1.gif
(Arnold trying out for “Beast Wizard XII”… hey! even the resistance needs some cheap entertainment!)
http://daily.greencine.com/archives/schwarzenegger-conan.jpg
(Ever smoke “a little” marijuana? Even b-movie Terminators have their off moments!)
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/38/10/Schwarzenegger_joint2.0.0.0×0.320×240.jpeg
(His true mission is revealed: come back in time to be the Governator of California… John and Cameron would be so proud of the little dickens!!)
http://lahuelroman.googlepages.com/stfu_arnold.jpg/stfu_arnold-full.jpg
(His reaction is caught on film when he finds out that his mission has failed and the state’s economy, like in the rest of the USA and the world, is going down the crapper)
http://www.arnoldspeaks.com/uploaded_images/Arnold-747438.bmp
(After an angry California mob got a hold of him and demanded a “Total Recall”… poor Arnold, he needs a vacation!)
http://www.henrysheehan.com/newsreel/abc/arnold.jpg
John and Cameron try for another hybrid child. The first one just didn’t work out as planned. Oops! They had to make a new fate for themselves!
(Baby Mark II … much, much better!)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WrjkqS_HBb8/SQnvVqOhLNI/AAAAAAAAAZc/Xv5kvpl3o54/s400/breslin_l.jpg
For one I’m just elated that Riley is finally gone. I always felt her character was a drag on the show. The time spent on her would have been better utilized on moving one of the main characters forward. While some may argue that her character was a vehicle to move JC forward, that may have been the intent but I think his evolution could have been handled in a less annoying manner. I will now be able to sit down and enjoy the rest of the season without having to endure any more of Riley-centric whining. The brakes are off, full speed ahead.
I’m sure things are going to get markedly better in the upcoming episodes. JF made it plain that he had a grand scheme in mind that connected the arc of both seasons. That being the case he had to “fill” some of season 2 to allow for him to build to the big finale reveals. This is just the typical 2nd act doldrums. From a purely practical standpoint, he kept his powder dry…literally…by keeping the budgets low through the last few eps so that he could blow it all…literally, in these final eps. They will be bigger and badder than anything one would expect from “TV”, guaranteed.
Rather than wring your hands about S3, why not recruit friends and family to watch the show? And even better, CONTACT THE SPONSORS to let them know their ad dollars are well spent. Get a Verizon phone, buy the damn Oil of Olay or whatever it is and then make sure the sponsor knows you bought it BECAUSE of their advertising TSCC. Neilson’s are valued, but direct consumer response is gold. If you really want this show, shout with your wallets.
Oh my goodness this was good….However, I am a fan of Leven’s from when I would watch AMC. I haven’t watched lately so I don’t know if she was doing both shows at the same time or not. She has a lot of talent though. I feel bad for the character because it gets you to thinking what happens now? If I remember correctly she is a baby right now in the past (our present) but she just got snuffed out (What did Doc say in BTTF about paradoxes?) Lol! Anyway, I wish they had killed Jesse instead because she gets on my nerves. Every other line she is calling someone “love”. Eeeew! Shut up….
I hope they keep making TSCC. At first I didn’t think it would be that good. I mean who could play Sarah except Linda. However, Lena won me over! I think she is doing a great job in capturing Sarah attitude. She tries to be emotionless like the machines she fights but every now and then it catches up to her, which is why I thought the “crazy Sarah” episodes fit. And boy is this show getting me pumped up for TS(4)!
Awe man Fox….please let them continue. I don’t want to be pissed off again like I was when dumb CBS canceled Jericho! Dang it!
here’s another thought….
and i havent read, nor can i read all of these posts.
JF (et al) showed the 2nd bird as a symbol of what is to come.
that is all.
Watching it yet again, Leven sure was good in this one. I know, actors are supposed to act, it’s par for the course, etc. But she was really good here. The whole cast was, but this definitely was a great performance by Leven. That scene with John outside their house “Is there anything you want to tell me Riley?” And her scene with Cameron earlier. And then the ones with Jesse.
Really good stuff.
I sure hope somebody told her. The cast & crew must have.
Just wonderful.
One more thing I’d like to add, the way this series is shot (filmed) is just kick a$$. They sure have a great crew putting this whole show together. Just love this show.
This episode was fantastic and I’m counting the minutes until the next. Thanks for fantastic television!
after reading all the hue & cry about how TSCC is a ratings disaster I decided to take a look at the Nielson Company’s ratings methodology. OMG. To think that so many people’s lives are affected by this tragically flawed service is truly staggering.
I can’t believe that professionals would value the Nielson numbers over direct input from an audience. It’s just mind blowing that the whole reason Nielson initiated the idea of audience sampling is because they couldn’t generate surveys. But in today’s digital society getting real-time audience data and profiling stats is hardly a pipe dream. If FOX or anyone else wanted direct audience feedback it could be quite easily enabled.
I suggest FOX shake loose from the shackles of a service who’s paradigms are entrenched firmly in 1970’s thinking and embrace the Internet 2.0 community to find out who their audience really is, and to then show their sponsors how loudly the TSCC audience is willing and able to speak with their wallets.
Now THIS is what i’m talking about!
Excellent point Mr. Bach. I’m sure many people would be willing to take a brief survey if Fox asked the viewers for their input during the show. They could then do a simple multiple regression analysis based on age, income, and spending habits. This would give Fox and the sponsor a much more accurate indication of the value they are providing per advertising dollar. This strategy might not work with every show but it’s a good bet that a techie crowd like T:SCC’s fans would be happy to do the online survey.
RE: Al B. Bach
I hear you about the ratings system. Totally sucks. I mean at least with DVR you can see how many people are watching it. They have to consider DVR…it’s a much better system. Its Friday night of course people are going to be out and about. I prefer to watch TSCC while not on the run because this is a show I have to wit down and watch because it makes you think.
I have friends who have the TV on all day to keep there pets company…they don’t care what channel its on as long as the pets have something to hear…I asked why not the radio but well. If these people would have a ratings box then what the pets are viewing would get counted…but my watching it doesn’t. That’s not right.
People are no longer bound to watch the show when the networks want but when you want hence online, the DVDs (that buy the way are selling really well on Amazon.com)
DVD Amazon.com Sales Rank: #548 in Movies & TV
#1 in Movies & TV > Television > Action & Adventure > TSCC
#2 in Movies & TV > Action & Adventure > Series & Sequels > Terminator
#15 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels
Blu ray Amazon.com Sales Rank: #997 in Movies & TV
#2 in Movies & TV > Television > Action & Adventure >TSCC
#6 in Movies & TV > Action & Adventure > Series & Sequels > Terminator
#29 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels
And DVR’s.
Plus we already see the advisements in product placement. That’s why I am writing to Dodge and Verizon and number of other products. Dell, sprint and a number of others.
As for the economic times…I read that when that happens people tend to lean towards shows that are closer to there economic standing….ie the Connors are not millionaires.
RE: Snake I second the online survey. They know who is watching, how many times. What we love and don’t love about the show. Give us opportunities to promote the show. What products I would buy.
Hmmm maybe this should be something we bring to Project FOX’s attention.
And Dan LOVE the Dew commercial. You should really submit that!!!!
I actually talked about donating blood and bleeding for your show, or donating food or pancake mix in the name of TSCC.
I would love for this show to move to the CW or Sci-Fi!
FOX interfered with adding the character of riley so soon. But more important is that in S1 they didn’t air TSCC after the super bowl, instead they showed House.
We need to keep fighting because the show is back on track and after this ep we NEED a S3…anywhere.
Fox: askfox@fox.com
WB: scott.rowe@warnerbros.com
Some are adding scifi to the list: feedback@scifi.com
If they got Summer to ask us to take the survey it would probably crash the server.
Lol, that’s for sure, Snake.
Gosh that was tragic ending to the Riley story. A couple people here used that description already, and I can’t think of any word more appropriate. Very emotionally gripping the way they filmed it.
Yikes. What are we in for next? I’m almost afraid to know………
LOL snake.
I still think the DVR numbers will up our ratings for this ep.
You know I can’t see the WB just letting this show drop. (Come on WB you owe me for ‘Moonlight’ and ‘Birds of Prey‘. Third times the charm right.)
I mean its connected to a movie franchise which is about to get a huge shot in the arm because of the T4 movie coming out.
Even if FOX does not want this show the WB could move the show to its CW station which has a mixture of sci-fi and teen drama. And well John is a teen with big time drama. Then they can focus on the Jameron relationship which the show seems to be doing already (which I like and hope they keep up).
And if it moves to sci-fi again you have a sci-fi show on a sci-fi channel. International connections and chances to play repeats that would have helped a lot of new fans in the second season.
My one question is we have the WB, Halcyon company and Bartleby company? How do those last two fit into the production and distribution? Anyone know? I’ve always wondered that.
Come on S3!!!!! Anywhere!!!!
Oh and was anyone else excepting Cameron to have a coltan covering for her arm instead of just wire’s?
As for the bomb in her head…maybe the explosive is a dud?
It was badass.
Wow!!!! This episode kicked some serious ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it on Friday night and then I think I’ve watched it 5 or 6 times now on the website over the weekend.
As always, Cameron you were awesome!!!!!!!!!! Love you!!!!
I just watched this episode again… and I must emphasize (though, not knowing how the next few eps. will be paced) that once glitch I see in this TV program is that the characters don’t move like there is a real purpose.
Tick tock tick tock. The end of the world is upon them, and they seem slow to respond to this sense of urgency.
Watch this deleted scene again from T1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5XWE6Y10sw
Sarah is determined to fight. Reese has to coral her. She’s fired up! Ready to blow the hell out of Cyberdyne… do something… anything to take it to Skynet BEFORE Judgment Day can occur.
John Connor should be raring to go! Cameron should, as soon as the glitch is fixed, raring to go… Derek should be firing on all cylinders…
Amp it! Don’t lose the character interaction and meat, but really give them things to do!
Dump the triangles, get Cameron and John paired up and teamed up and let the sparks fly as they deal with their deep emotions for each other while they work together to take the fight to Skynet.
Pair Derek and Sarah off.
If you can’t give the show enough action during the present, swing things back to the Future… there are plenty of stories to focus on there that can tie back to the present. Battles (not necessarily with HUGE epic warfare that costs tons of money) within the tunnels and in the gloomy recesses and in the dark of night… finding stuff out about Terminator creation, etc. Give us more intel on Skynet’s mind and thinking processes. Expand the lore.
Delve into the pasts of Sarah, Allison Young, and a Young John, Kyle and Derek, etc.
This will give you many interesting and thoughtful and exciting avenues to explore AS you delve into Cameron and John and Derek and Sarah’s past and future-past as it relates to the here and now. Weave it all together.
But focus SQUARELY on the main three: Cameron, John, and Sarah without getting into tangents with a bunch of side characters.
Pump up Cameron’s role. Bring back her curiosity and wonder. It makes for a more interesting Terminator who can love and be enthralled with the world and want to ask questions and explore, and willing want to help John and Sarah and others in need WHILE still kicking butt and taking numbers, and being damned logical and smart as necessary.
In fact, if she’s interested in not killing everything that crosses her path, why not have she and John take non-lethal combat classes, so as to hit on that point? She’s becoming less of a blunt instrument or a bull in a china shop, and more of a finely honed and sophisticated lady fighter. It could be funny having she and John try to spar with each other using martial arts, and not hurt John accidentally in the process.
Add more deft humor, a tad more romance, and lightness and other feel good things that will help keep the show from becoming so morbid and dark, and depressing.
I think it will help.
Dan,
All of that might help, but try to imagine you are human, fighting Skynet even though you know what must be done is something you don’t want to do. You don’t want to be leader.You don’t want to fight, period. Even though this is what you must do, it is emotionally draining. When your at your last resort, yeah, you will fight. Being a warrior is a state of mind. Nobody wants it. The last thing this show is about is pairing characters off. There is a war to fight. They might pair up but only as a result of the pain. The past sequences could be interesting if they’re giving a chance. Curious Cameron is interesting, but wouldn’t be if on every episode.
I must say: I LOVE THIS SHOW…i dont know why the ratings are so low, I mean how can ghost whisper have 11 viewers, i tried to watch that show several times and just couldnt because it was soooo boring and cheesy…but tssc is so exciting, great effects, great characters and i love summer glau, who doesnt!!! Now i feel completly helpless because i dont live on the united states and cant watch the show to increase ratings and i dont think fox is taking the rest of the world into consideration..because i know for sure the show have a lot of fans here in latinamerica.. PLEASE GIVE US A SEASON 3 THE WORLD IS BEGGING YOU…
Poor Riley! She didn’t deserve that. Now that i like her character she’s all but dead.
Great episode folks. Keep up the good work.
All international fans must move to the U.S! Unleast till this season is over.
RE: mar
There are lots of things you can do. You can write the big three:
Fox: askfox@fox.com
WB: scott.rowe@warnerbros.com
Some are adding sci-fi to the list: feedback@scifi.com just in case.
We have petitions on the wiki site you can sign, you can write the advertisers and the product placement companies and get more people to watch even if they are outside the US. I don’t know if you can download but you can buy the DVD set and/or the CD.
The more people who see the show the better.
And keep on writing. Tell them just what you posted here.
We NEED that S3!
I really love this show. I watch it and Dollhouse every friday. I’ve heard rumors it might get cancelled. Please don’t do that. I just got recently invested in this show and there are too many unanswered questions for it to suddenly go off the air.
Please save TSCC!!!!
Also, I felt really disgusted by this latest episode. If anything happens to Cameron because John gets the wrong information from his so-called family, I will take back everything I said above and boycott the show. Seriously.
Sincerely,
Leander
Dan Hitchman,
about your comments on the show pacing and lack of urgency when compared to the movies, I am sorry, but I think you’re way off. This is, indeed, NOT a movie, but a TV show, a series, and it’s only logical that it moves at different pace than a movie, it SHOULD move at a different pace.
And, for my money, the pace in T:TSCC is just the RIGHT one. As with any other series, I may be happier with some episodes than others, but, as a whole, I would say that the people behind the show know quite well what they are doing.
On that note, I find it odd how many of posters here, worried about the show’s future as I am, are suggesting changing this, tweaking that, adding something or something other… and, essentially, turning the show into a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SHOW, which, to my mind, defeats the purpose of it all.
I will miss this show a lot if it gets cancelled, and I would love to see it go on for many seasons more, but only if it remains the same show I have come to love. And by the “same show” I do not mean stale, frozen in amber, repeating itself either, but I have no interest in watching some low-budget poor-man version of TERMINATOR and T2 every week. I love T:TSCC as it is right now: smart, introspective, dramatic, bleak, slow and, yes, exciting.
Riley was loved by at least four (including her foster parents) people but primarily John and (gulp, literally) Jesse. She’s one. The writers know their cinema so Savannah’s fate may resemble the little girl in The Bride of Frankenstein, flowers in the well. Garret’s John Henry seems to be going in that direction.
Finally, Dan, I disagree on the pacing or even the necessity of the Sarah psychology episodes. Come on, they’re not filler to build to a big climax (although we were all happy to get a full burst of Summer.) How nice, and vital, to have the whole family, including Charlie, back together again. Since you, of all critics, regard the original T1 and T2 as gospel, remeber the central image of Sarah’s nightmare, the playset and swings (which I might add Josh intentionally referenced in Season 1). The hopeless quest to freeze progress and prevent Judgment Day is an attempt to save all the children, not just her own and is as impossible as the govarnator delivering a speech from Hamlet. In fact, given the time paradox, preventing J D would prevent Kyle Reese and accomplish the ultimate goal Skynet has always sought, no John Connor. Give Josh credit for his understanding that Sarah’s obsession has irresoluable consequences.
The MIC is a hydra; cut off one head and three sub-contractors appear.
@Snake re: summer comment, heck ya!! Me and my friends would crash the server by ourselves!
I seriously loved the way toni wrote this episode. A friend of mine tuned in after not watching for several months (after I bugged her every day for three weeks about it) and was instantly hooked. She was like “Hey where did this episode come from, i haven’t seen anything like this in all of S2″
I told her “Heck is just gonna get better!”
Summer as always, her performance was just stellar and I almost cried when she handed over the watch detonator to John. I have a feeling she won’t die by that lethal button but she is gonna bite the dust (summer seemed pretty sad at WonderCon when the question came up) anyhow, her whole glitch thing and not killing Riley just blew me away. I loved how in the scene where she was in the garage with Riley they did a close up of her twitchy hand every time she said something threatening to Riley. In the end the episode shows that Cam seems to have more humanity then Jesse and Cam admits to the fact that she’s screwed up and leaves the decision up to John, forcing him to take one more step toward becoming the the leader of mankind that he needs to be…
All and all the episode left me very much conflicted. I don’t think this ep was about Jameron (which for once in my life I’m ok with) it was about both Cam and John developing as individuals to farther the cause of bringing down Skynet. Oh yeah I and I also think Riley was leaning toward being gay. That line where she said “I loved you!” to Jesse and all the stuff building up to that, wanting to live with jesse and all that jazz just seemed to lean that way. I don’t think she loved John as so much a lover but more as a very dear friend, just a thought…
Well THANKS TONI FOR THE AWESOME EPISODE!
CAN’T WAIT FOR ADAM RAISED A CAIN!
Totally agree with Roy and DavidG. Dan, we know you always mean well, but this show is great the way it is. A two hour movie is quite a different format than a weekly tv show.
Perhaps it’s the name of the show that continues to befuddle some of the viewers. Yes it’s Terminator — but — it’s The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It’s not T2 or T2.5.
I wonder if naming the series was a difficult choice when it came down to the final decision.
We can tell a few of the viewers are still expecting the same format as the movies, and are VERY upset at any variation on the T franchise.
All I can say is, they’re missing out on everything this show has to offer. And it’s a lot.
Absolutely incredible work. By everyone.
Love this show. I wish there was a way we could tell everyone involved.
I’m trying, buying all the episodes from Amazon, DVR’ing, rewatching, bought a couple copies of the season one DVD.
Don’t forget to support Summer tonight by watching her guest appearance on The Big Bang Theory!! From what I’ve seen, her scenes look pretty funny and naturally she looks amazing. It’s at 7:00 pm central time. Go Summer!
Oh don’t worry, I’ll be watching, looks HILARIOUS! It’ll be fun to see Summer do something comedic in a none robot way!
I couldn’t agree more, I’d love to see her do some comedy.
I guess we should give some cred to Dan (co-writer of the ep) too. He and Toni make a good team. CHEERS TO YOU BOTH!!
Another great episode. I’m going to wear out the season 2 DVD set when it comes out, no questions.
As great as the performances always are in this show, I just couldn’t take my eyes off Leven Rambin. She was so affecting every time she was onscreen. A fitting and powerful sendoff for an important character in this season’s arc.
indeed, that was a great ep. Even with such high expectations for the episode they were behind, I was still very very impressed with Ourselves Alone. “What am I going to do with you?” -great, great stuff.
First of all, it’s “corral” not “coral.” I shouldn’t type late at night.
Secondly,
I think some are misunderstanding what I mean by “pacing.” Yes, I do understand that this is a TV show and not a 2 hour movie. I do like methodical stories as much as the next thinking person…
However, I also understand where the layman is coming from when they click on the show and see Sarah talking to a guidance counselor, Derek sitting in the bushes staring at his watch, John just Googleing a restaurant and not doing software development, practicing creating viruses (just in case), quizzing Cameron with a straight up: “Who the hell is Allison?” query, learning tactical strategy, how AI tick, etc. Very useful things like in in Season 1 that he isn’t doing now.
He works on Cameron’s arm, all very good to see, but is it enough?
By leaving the “payoff” ’til the very, very end instead of spreading it out a bit and leaving you wanting more (and then building to the climax rather than staying completely linear with no build up of the pressure, and instead hit you all at once), you risk losing the audience (cough, cough). You see Jesse’s motivation for her diabolical nature at the end (the sub), but it should have been told earlier or told in sections. The same with Riley. Many were turned off by her early on. If you had known MORE about her sad background a bit earlier (rather than just springing it as if it came out of basically no where), perhaps you would have seen more sympathy for her character rather than “ding dong the bitch is dead” kind of postings.
Again, when I mean “sense of urgency” I mean just that. The end game is billions dead and the world in ruin. That would motivate me like nobody’s business. I would not go gentle into that good night. Like spunky Sarah in T1… we take a stand. HERE. NOW.
We don’t just curl up into a ball and wait for the bombs to drop. This is not a “cool” thing to have happen. I think sometimes writers have forgotten how horrific nuclear war is.
As for Sarah seeing the kids burn in T2. That scene was set up for THE AUDIENCE more than Sarah. The whole point behind T2 was that this is a nightmare. War is terrible, killing is very, very bad. It was the central theme.
John: You can’t just go around killing people.
The Terminator: Why?
John: You just can’t, okay? Trust me on this.
Listen to Stan Winston talk about building the ashen bodies and then filming them being blown away. He said they were troubling to make, and it was troubling to watch. It disturbed the crew… as it was supposed to disturb the audience.
Maybe they SHOULD be a bit more like the two movies in this regard.
Sean, I totally agree. Her scenes were terrific! I almost want to send a letter to say how nice her performance was. But letters probably never get through, or if they do it’s a year later or something. Maybe Hadley will be nice and foward a couple of the comments to her.
Her performance was very moving in each scene. Especially with John, and with Cameron. And I’m not afraid to say I watched the episode four additional times and cried each time as they showed Riley dead on the floor with her eyes open. It’s such a tragic ending to her story. They really produced that scene well. Kick ass stuff. Just fantastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdtY0LxBCsg
This sums it up. Beautifully.
Ok so Leven Rambin performance as Riley in the last ep was pretty spectacular and i almost felt bad for her…almost. I gotta agree with Dan (Did i really just type that lol) The writers set Riley up to be hated and all those who didn’t hate her was because they didn’t want to fall into the shipper category. Her character was vital to the exploration of other characters who in the long run are far more important to the storyline (*cough cough* Sarah and Cameron)
Riley has served her purpose and it’s time to move on. Thanks Leven for all your time on this show, you added a lot, gave us someone to hate and gave Cameron some competition, for that alone I thank you very much.
Lol. Of course it’s time to move on. Everyone wondered why her character was introduced in the first place, and now you can see what Josh & the others had in mind. Fun stuff. It’s this last episode that made people really feel for Riley (well except maybe the Jamers), and it was great.
I’m with Dan on that 9:25 post. The tone was set when Jordan jumped from the roof and John didn’t save her. The Connors have more important things to do. It would be nice to see some of that. It would be nice to see a systematic and well-planned hunt for Skynet, not just Sarah roaming the desert.
For example, the Connors have money. Why don’t they hire people to help them? If they need to know who’s behind Desert Canyon Heat and Air, they should hire a private investigator to do the grunt work. If they need to do something that might expose them to Skynet, hire a go-between who doesn’t know their identity. Heck, we’ve seen terminators hire people for help. You’d think the good guys would do the same.
Among other things, this would give John some people to boss around, to become that great leader he’s supposed to be. Speaking of which, his reaction to Sarah’s discovery that Riley knows about Judgment Day was good. He started interrogating Riley. He had incorporated the new information and adapted to it, at what must have been a high personal cost. We need more of this.
Leaders recruit people. Sarah may want to be a loner, but John should want to build a team. He should have recruited Ellison. A trained investigator would be a lot of help in finding Skynet. And what about Charley? He’s certainly motivated to kill Skynet at this point. For that matter, wouldn’t it be an interesting twist if, despite all that has happened, John found a way to recruit Jesse to his team. She’s got skills they could use.
Even my friend i talked about earlier who didn’t care a flip about Jameron said Riley was annoying. She just didn’t feel anything for her character and practically laughed when Jesse took her out (well maybe not so much at Riley’s death but the cat fight that ensued before that)
I never hated Riley, I guess i just didn’t see the point of all the screentime they spent on her. Now it makes sense, she was just a pawn, i don’t feel sorry for her at all. Cause of her the savior of mankind almost got himself killed several times (Hello John took Riley to Mexico to impress her)
I was never a hater, I guess I was more like a
“Who gives a freaken crap about the annoying blond chick, get a move on with the storyline” kinda person…anyhow the what’s done is done and now the Connors and Derek gotta make up their mind about Cameron. Now if they start ganging up on her, I might just turn into a Hater. lol
JUST WATCH IT AGAIN ALSO, SO awesome, just what we needed to ensure a S3, hopefully.
HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP
Help, I have a q or a couple, did the makers say that T3 is no part of the story and that TSCC is after T2, and is the new Terminator, SALVATION also after T2?
Does this mean we have two different stories?
I also heard that T Salvation is not called T4 because it is going to be a new start of a new triology, is WB or hayclon w/e, starting all over again starting from the future then sending back Kyle reese to protect sc? IM SO CONFUSED, please any 1 help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uh-oh, Dan is gaining some followers.
I like the characters they way they’re making them, and the stories. We need some evil people in the cast, like Evil Jessie! Which we do have. Otherwise it’s just a happy band running around fighting Terminators of the week.
@Gary
Yeah I get the “We need evil people in the cast” I think Jesse got that pretty much covered but Riley was not evil. She was nothing but a pawn that evil Jesse was using to turn John on Cameron. What i really want to know (which hopefully will be answered in coming eps, if not this season then the next, yes I think we’ll get a S3) is why Jesse hates Cam so much in the first place?! I understand the whole metal destroyed most of the earth’s population and wants all of mankind dead but come on Cam has been reprogrammed and saved John’s butt dozens of times (In the present and I’m pretty sure in the future as well) Cut the super hot cyborg some slack!! Maybe my leaning toward shipper side is coming through *smiling sheepishly* but I guess my “hating” can be turned on Jesse now I can tell you I am hating her with my entire being!!
But she already made it very clear. It’s how weird JC is being in the future. Not talking to anybody, spending all his time with “Metal” and making some questionable decisions. Getting good people killed.
I like Evil Jesse, but wanted to see Riley win the fight too! I’m sure Jesse’s end will be spectacular also.
I wonder who will be left at the end! Great show.
As much as I hated Riley, I felt bad and regretful of that hate by the end of the episode. I wanted her to kill Jesse ’cause the more I see of that chick, the less I like. She knows better than John and has little respect for Sarah, why does Derrek continue to trust her? I don’t agree with some that say Cameron will die in the end, because this show is hoping for a Season 3 and Cameron is so integral to the story, so irreplaceable that the show wouldn’t work without her. So even if she does “die” in the end, she would be resurrected in some way. Although I hope that’s not the case, I love her character as it is now, quirky and sweet, but within the restraint of a cyborg, which makes it clever and funny. I loved this episode it really made me think!
Some Young Guy,
Dear God, that name just made me flash back to “Wayne’s World.” Blech!
Anyway, T3 has no bearing on TSCC, at least I hope not.
Terminator Salvation is a bit of a reboot to take the sour taste of T3 out of the fans’ mouth, though Kate Brewster is a continuation of that stinker of a movie, and I don’t know how they’ll blend in Sarah Connor (Linda may do the narration). Not entirely, but it does incorporate more of James Cameron’s original T1 and T2 elements and it has more willing cooperation by James Cameron and Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger than T3 did. Who knows… Robert Patrick may show up?
Hamilton was hoping James Cameron would be interested in T5 and T6 and have more oversight since he was busy during much of T4 on his other CGI sci-fi film.
To Dan Hitchman:
“The end game is billions dead and the world in ruin. That would motivate me like nobody’s business. I would not go gentle into that good night. Like spunky Sarah in T1… we take a stand. HERE. NOW.
We don’t just curl up into a ball and wait for the bombs to drop.”
Oh, man, are you WRONG there…
Newsflash: We ALL are going to DIE. Eventually, but that’s what awaits you, me, and everybody. And most of us spend our lives curled up into a ball, waiting for the bombs NOT to drop, somehow expecting that death will miss us. You know the expression “live your life like there’s no tomorrow”? Well, most of us live life as if there were an endless stack of tomorrows, as if life were eternal.
(and don’t get me started on how religion sedates that fear, along with everything else that runs in our brains; something this show is commenting on, by the way)
Believe me, knowing that everything is going to end (in a nuclear fire blast or with a whimper in bed, it doesn’t matter) is not enough to make you stand and fight. And Sarah and her extended family are doing more than their part, and, certainly, more than what most of us would do in their situation.
So no, I do not feel at all that Sarah & Co. are iddly sitting on their asses. Again, as I have stated before, I am not missing any sense of urgency.
As for TERMINATOR and T2 being more frightening than this show, I have to disagree with you on that too. T:TSCC poses so many uncomfortable questions about existence that many episodes have given me the creeps, or brought me to tears. Or both.
As for Riley, I really scratched my head for weeks at the haters and nay-sayers, and even at those who did not hate her but did not understand her introduction to the show, either, her purpose.
After the traumatic events of “Samson & Delilah” (well, and a whole life before that), John decides to have some resemblance of a normal life and brings a girl to his house, to his life, for the very first time. To me, it all felt so natural, so organic, that I never questioned her presence in the show and the story, and it never bothered me for a minute.
Good for you, Roy!
More power to ya! Even if I don’t always agree, and you don’t always agree with me. You do have good points too.
Thank you, Dan. You’re a true gentleman.
Hy guyz,
just finish to watch Ourselves alone…i’m happy i can say this is the best episode of this period!
i’m so sad about Riley’s death, but it was the only perspective she had at that moment! Her love story with John was troubled and blocked for many episodes, her death is a tragic but an envolving envelopment…so we find ourselves here flleeing about her, her dreams about a normal life in the past, her feelings for John…was she really in love with him? What does we know about her and Cameron?
Does she know Allison? These questions are without an answer for now…i hope we find them in next episodes!
But we have also a good Jameron moment, it’s touching in the end when she gives to John the clock for self destructing! Think about for a second about Cameron’s death…it should not be a surprise.
Every Terminator dies in all Terminator films, and we’re always so sad about that! Arnie or Cameron, this makes them immortal.
And this usually happens cause we can reflect about this machine’s behaviour, the distance that separates us from them, but anyhow, their loyalty, their feelings, their capacity of teachin’ us how to feel ourselves and others around us.
I think that Cameron’s glitch is the sign of something’s happening in her chip; she gives john the possibility to stop her if she goes mad or something similar.
I agree with those of you that think about Sarah intention’s of killing Cameron; Sarah is a strong woman, she already found herself and her son in such moments, i think that will not be impossible for here to push the button.
But…if it hink that this could bring to Cameron’s “death”…it will kill the show !
But after an epic ending, solving all the plot and subplot’s stuffs, it would be a strong ending.
Hopefully, i think that we’ll see a S3, Terminator Salvation is coming and people would like to get more and more Terminator! And more of TSCC, a sci-fi drama!
Thanks to Ramblin, you give us strong feelings, i flee for Riley’s ending, killed by a true threat to Sarah, John and Cam’s lifes…Evil Jesse! But with this killing, she got more attenction by us and she became one of the main villain of this season; before this, she was a bit useless (sorry Stephanie
Thanks to you all, waitin’ for next friday!! Hey Cam, don’t go mad, please!! And don’t be afraid about pigeons, they are a lot and maybe skynet could be useful against them !
And John, if you ask a robot “what’s happening with you ” and the robot answers “i don’t know”, i would think about that seriously…it’s a Terminator! She’s going to prepare you a cake…or takin’ the minigun for a massacre!
Stop hangin’ around, and become a leader, soon …
UPDATE: For those wondering, week two of DVR data showed both “Dollhouse” and “Terminator” improving 29%. That roughly matches the premiere DVR addition for “Dollhouse” while slipping a bit for “Terminator.” I read this on the feed.com. Hopefully they count these numbers. I hope so.
WOW! I thought this was a great episode! I really liked all of the action - the fight scene with Jesse and Riley was great. I liked Jesse more up to this point but I will admit that I was pulling for Riley to win the fight. Maybe not kill Jesse but just kick her ass, make her pass out, then get the heck outa town and loose contact with her. But, it’s probably a good thing that we got some conclusion to the story rather than dragging it out and having just one more thing open on the table.
I do agree with the people here that Jesse is a terrible terrible person. I think she is totally convinced that she is doing the right things for the right reasons and doesn’t even question that. She does play the part pretty well, but, I don’t think that she can go on by setting new lows and doing such terrible things. I am looking forward to learning more about her back story so we can learn why (& how) she is here. What is the whole story about her wanting to get rid of cameron and “protect” John.
I am really looking forward to everything yet to come this season but I did pick out 1 small thing I am now looking forward to. Sarah told John that she flat out didn’t believe him about telling Riley about the future. I think it will be neat to see where this distrust takes the Connors. I found that unusual for Sarah to flat out state and not believe John. Next week should be sweet!!!
COME ON SEASON 3!!!!!
Great points Windy. JC and co. should be enlisting more aid and working as a unit to attack Skynet assets. With all of the training that John and Sarah got in S, America they should look like a well oiled Tac team instead of a bunch of struggling newbies.
It would be nice to see some of that in S3.
RE: Victor
I hope they count the DVR numbers as well. And I have yet to read anything about the downloads on FOX.com, itunes and amazon.com
Does FOX or WB look at the DVD sales?
Just look at the S1 DVD sales (in the US). Pretty good considering the DVD set has been out for while.
DVD Amazon.com Sales Rank: #548 in Movies & TV
#1 in Movies & TV > Television > Action & Adventure > TSCC
#2 in Movies & TV > Action & Adventure > Series & Sequels > Terminator
#15 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels
Blu ray Amazon.com Sales Rank: #997 in Movies & TV
#2 in Movies & TV > Television > Action & Adventure >TSCC
#6 in Movies & TV > Action & Adventure > Series & Sequels > Terminator
#29 in Movies & TV > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Series & Sequels
As long as we get a S3 somewhere I’m happy.
I really didn’t think I’d feel sorry for Riley but oddly I do.
I can’t wait to see how the rest of the season will go
especially what will happen w/ Jesse now.
This was a great episode!!!
I’ll have so much to reel about ’til next Friday ^_^
A slow, painful death for Jesse would not upset me, especially if it comes next week.
Amazing episode! Thank you
I could sit there are watch another 5 aswell
I would love to see next episode really.
….and hope John will NOT use that switch.
Just watched it on the DVR.
One of the top 5 episodes so far, no question!!! KEEP IT ROCKIN!!!
In contrast to what others have said here (and as much as I’d like to see it happen), DO NOT let us finally see Cameron and John get together… Always remember the Moonlighting lesson — just keep teasing!!
(sorry folks — am I banned now?)