As Josh mentioned in his previous post, Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep is the final chapter of the series’ exploration of Sarah Connor’s mental journey. Some of you will love it and some will hate it, but as you talk about it here, please remember to be respectful of everyone!
I tuned in 10 minutes late, but I loved the episode!
One thing I wonder is who was Sarah talking about at the end? She said something about a bitch that must die…. Anyone care to explain? Thanks
Outstanding. What a great episode. What a great series!
I’m still processing… but I do wonder how an emergency c-section scar squares with the story Sarah told Jesse.
Or Sarah’s tolerance for pain is even higher than I previously imagined.
Sigh.
Are you trying to get the show canceled?
Less drama, more robots.
I loved it. I was a little confused at the end, but I really loved it. And, I just gotta say that even though it didn’t ACTUALLY happen, I love the Pancake John/Cameron scene and his reaction to her in her underwear (Echo of S1! hehe). So, thank you for those! And my Canadian TV took over for Dollhouse, so I missed most of the “next week” but I’m really excited for next weeks episode as well.
@Callie
Yes… a pox on Canwest Global for messing with us.
Somwhere, Dan Hitchman is googling song lyrics for “The bitch is back” by Elton John.
That episode was AMAZING. That was the BEST episode to watch live out of the entire series. I was at the edge of my seat. The twist and reverse of dream/reality totally got me. It’s mind boggling that for MONTHS we’ve thought Sarah had killed for the first time and it was self defense and tonight we just saw it for REAL and it WASN’T self-defense. She flat out murdered Winston in cold blood. She could have let him live, could have taken him hostage but she shot him square in the head (I think anyway). Wow! That was some serious emotion in the finger that pulled that trigger.
Even though all the clinic stuff was a dream, it really showed us a lot of what is going on in Sarah’s subconscious… her fears about John, about Cameron, how she feels everyone thinks she’s crazy, how she even views herself as crazy (when she was desperate while John was erasing the brain mapping).
I have to give mad props to Natalie and Denise. That episode was just so damn good. After this, I don’t think anyone can argue about Sarah’s bad-assness. That fight with Winston was raw and hardcore.
A 10/10
Also curious about the c-section. Either she lied to Kacey or didn’t tell Kacey the entire truth (emergency c-section out in the jungle??? OUCH!). Or hell, maybe Sarah had another child and s/he died. Weird if that’s the case but I really can’t rule anything out with you guys.
Bravo to everyone! But seriously Lena, Natalie, and Denise are my new heroes lol
LOVED this episode!
we has some Jameron stuff going on which was cool (although it was only a dream)
Really like how you guys did this episode…
AGGGHH amazing haha=]
aghhh i cant get over how well everything tied together with the coyote and everything
i think i need to watch it again before i head to bed haha
i want cameron to come make me pancakes though =]
Cant wait to see cameron attack riley in the next episode haha
Loved it. Definitely needs more than one viewing to get the full impact now that I know the ending.
What impressed me was the revelation that Sarah was being eaten up alive with guilt for shooting Winston to protect herself, but when it came time to kill him to protect John, there wasn’t a moment’s hesitation. So many other little tidbits were revealed… C-section, gave me a ‘hmm’ moment or two. And it would appear that Sarah is more than a bit jealous of the part that Cameron plays in her son’s life. The pancakes reference was definitely chucklworthy. Kudos to all involved for this fantastic episode.
Great episode.
Thanks Natalie and Denise.
This is more like it. The first combination of writers Chaidez and The produced the best episode I’ve seen since the break. The episode really moved along without feeling rushed. Really terrific plot twist to reverse Sarah’s (and the viewer’s) perception of what’s real and what’s a dream by the end of the episode. And Sarah as written for the episode was great. Imagine biting your wrists so you can use the blood to slip the handcuffs and then jam the hypo into the guy’s eye (he was a really good villian, too). Absolutely badass!
As for Sarah’s comment at the end. I think it refers to the ancient idea of death appearing as an old crone. She steals your youth, robs you of your rest, etc.
Now we have six episodes to go. Two are penned in whole or part by Toni Graphia, who gave us Allison from Palmdale and Self Made Man. Two by Ashley Edward and Zack Stentz, who gave us (the less than well received) The Good Wound but who also gave us the terrific Dungeons and Dragons from S1. One by Natalie Chaidez and the season ender by Josh. Can you say Season 3?
Bad ass episode- something for everyone, loved it! Very trippy, I was surprised at the ending, it was the best part. Cameron in her underwear was actually the best part, I can’t lie. Love it, sexy hot. Can’t wait till next week!
WOW! Let me say this episode was PERFECT!
I don’t think there was one thing that I didn’t like about this episode. Full of suspense and twists that kept me interested the whole way through!
Yikes, that sleep clinic was creepy- I mean Skynet brain mapping? *shivers* Well, at least it was all a dream… or was it? dun, dun, dunnn..
The kidnapping deal was so sad, I felt so bad… Poor Sarah, all the shit she has to go through. I’m going to need to re-watch this episode a few more times to digest everything that went on during the kidnapping scenes, but I’ve gotta say, that fight scene was soooo KICK ASS- Sarah was beast!
Beautiful acting by Lena in this episode!!!
Haha on a lighter note, I LOVED the John/Cameron scenes in this episode.. even if it was all a dream. The look on John’s face when Cameron walked by in a bra had me laughing so hard xD
I really hope to see more of these John/Cameron scenes in future episodes, they give a nice touch of humor to all the chaos that goes on =]
Anyways, I LOVED this episode!! Can’t wait till next week!
These episodes just keep getting better and better!!
Man, I love this show….
Interesting episode. Sarah’s mind is a lil all over the place but it always comes around to what is important: John.
I liked John a lot in this one. His interactions between Sarah and between Cameron show he’s not afraid to tell people what they should do (or shouldn’t). If he can tell Sarah (well, women in general lol) whats what..then yeah, he’ll be alright to lead a resistance
And my gawd is Sarah a BAMF. I found myself turning away at that one part with the cuffs. Ouch
Great ep, no real complaints here.
Though I do wish the John and Cameron (I refuse to use the term “jameron” or any variation, I hate it when people try to be cute and make one name out of two…) scenes actually happened. what I don’t get is why Sarah would have a dream where she is not present. I don’t know about you guys, but in my dreams I’m always there when other people talk. I just feel like it was a cop out to say oh this didn’t really happen. would have made things more interesting if it did happen, but its not too out there either.
But this is just a nitpick, ignore me.
Errrr… Did we watch the same episode, guys?
This show and Dollhouse are the only two that my wife and I watch live.
I loved S1 but this S2 is totally kicking butt! I love the writing, the journey that Sarah is on and it was interesting to see what’s on Sarah’s mind tonight, particularly with what she thinks about John and Cameron.
The coyote was a good link between both plotlines, particularly as Coyote is traditionally known as the Trickster who teaches us what we need to know.
I’m going to be the voice of dissent and say that this episode didn’t even rate a “Meh” on my meter.
I couldn’t help but reflect on what Josh wrote about his desire to explore Sarah’s demons: “To be completely honest, the network warned me not to do it”. As much as it feels like a knife is turning in my gut, I have to say that I think the suits were right. Honestly, if I’m just a casual viewer of SCC, this episode sent me packing to Ghost Whisperer or Wife Swap. I think the odds of a 3rd season have become much longer.
This four episode arc, especially for a struggling show, strikes me as ill-conceived. All we are left with that is certain is that Sarah is a bad-ass who *is* willing to kill to protect John. That could have been done with just one tightly-written eppie.
Honestly, the best thing about the ep, for me (except for the return of John/Cameron humor), were the previews for next week. At least it looks like something actually connected with the story will be happening.
And if you’ll excuse me, I still have to do my podcast and write the blog in the next couple of hours and try not to be too negative.
LOVED IT. At first I was all grouchy about the dream sequences with winston…but I (finally) figured it out when the creepy nurse said “thank you for explaining”, it was just too obvious. The switch at the end was pretty crazy. The one thing I didn’t care for…was the voice overs. At first, I thought “OMG YAY….the monologues are back!!!” but the content was just not what it used to be. But overall….THANK YOU!!!!
that episode was horrible i’m kinda pissed what happened to the awesomeness of the first two seasons. nothing in tonights episode made sense.
An excellent ending to an overall slow episode. I feel cheapened by the John/Cameron scenes as they didn’t even exist.
I think that this one is the most risky episode this series has done to date. Sure, we’ve had some out there storylines, but (a) the idea that Winston WAS not dead, that (b) he was an evil guy (I just assumed when he was trying to kill Sarah that HE was acting in self-defense (guess not)), and (c) that the episode writers could trick us like that when in reality they set it all up at the beginning— is trailblazing, at least as far as this show is concerned. The monologues were perfect for this episode (in fact, they’re what set us up for the inevitable fact that the sleep clinic was all just a dream), in my opinion. It was all very logical up until the point she was tased and we saw the reveal of Winston. The psych-out probably wouldn’t have happened had it been anybody else kidnapping her: it had to be Winston, since the writers consciously knew that we would all automatically assume there was no way Winston could be alive. Although I really didn’t figure it out until John and Sarah were killed (errrr, we wouldn’t need a third season if that were the reality), I asked myself the question of whether or not Winston could be alive a couple times over the hiatus. If Sarah can survive all those “good wounds”, Winston can persevere through at least one.
What did we all think about this just being a Sarah, John, Cameron episode this week? I suspected it was going to be just them, but I’m just curious how you feel about that. I think this episode worked… and needed to be told that way without any other storylines interfering. This ENTIRE episode was told through the eyes of Sarah Connor, complete with the kickass monologues (thank you Denise and Natalie!). Personally, I think it’s about time an ENTIRE episode was told strictly through the eyes of our titular character. I don’t just want a glimpse into her psyche— I want full immersion.
Definitely a mind-bender. I’m going to have to watch it again to figure out what I just saw.
Awesome episode guys and next weeks looks even better.
Ditto.
How can any of you be so sure the Winston stuff was real. The only thing that leads me to believe the Winston story was real is next weeks preview when she tells Cameron she was kidnapped. But this episode alone is too much vague mess. If they don’t get back to the basics next week I’m giving up - good thing it looks like they will get back.
It was all a dream! Loved it. Had an inkling that it would turn out that way, but amazingly well done. Definitely a re-watcher…. over and over. Thanks for a solid hour (or 42ish minutes) of television.
Just want to step back for a second. I just think it’s really great that we can thank the people who make the show and they will actually see it. So… Thank you for making such a great show!
It was better than I thought it was going to be but not fantastic by any stretch of the imagination. The interactions between the characters is exactly what I wanted to see but since it was all in a dream state I’m afraid the story might veer back into the dysfunctional. Let’s hope not.
I was intrigued by the promo for next week. Die Riley, Die.
BRAVO…amazing, absolutely amazing!!!!
Now that’s what I call an episode. Wow…I’m still on a TSCC high. :)Wow. Now that’s the show I’ve been missing.
I loved that we have the humor back, the VO, the action, mystery, but more importantly the family feeling and JAMERON!!
Tying a number of things back to S1, the pancakes, Cameron in practically nothing. Ok I was not expecting that. It just screamed S1.
Question: Can the ladies get some eye candy as well. I’d liked to see ‘tiger’ in a similar situation!!! Just kidding. LOL!!!
Love the idea of Cameron cooking good pancakes, the recipe talk, the chips…LOL loved the little things. Loved Jameron. I don’t care if that part was a dream…we still got to see it.
I loved this episode so much I actually broke my tape from rewinding it too much. LOL luckily I always double tape but still!
And what a beautiful coyote.
I loved that we saw what Sarah worried about Jameron, being crazy, John coming to her rescue, John dying…
I kind of had a feeling the kidnapping was the real sequence. But it was one well written story.
As for Next weeks promo….OH MY bring it on!!!!! Is it Friday yet?!?!?!
And hand over a S3 because I think our show is back on track.
Hats off to you…one amazing episode. Keep it up!!! Bring on the rest of S2 and a S3 because wow!!!
That was awesome. I had no clue what was going on until the end. And then my mind was totally blown. Wow.
- The desert transformed Sarah into a total hardcore badass.
- What’s with the c-section scar?! Does John Connor have… a sister?
- Sarah worries that when she’s not home, Cam’s strolling about in her undies. LOL
I see a few people liked it. Hopefully they will use the money they saved on this one to make an episode the rest of us will like.
God DAMN’T. Another mother ****ing boring episode. What is that, 29 in a row???
Jesus christ, yes they ARE trying to get the show canceled, it WILL be canceled. See josh friedman is smart he thought “Well I know they’re going to cancel the show so I might as well make the fans hate the show before it does get canceled”
Screw you friedman you hack
You guys are just… words cannot give you enough credit. Seriously.
I was so damn impressed with this episode. It was pure genius!
God, I CANNOT wait until the last six episodes, if this one is any indication of what’s to come.
MAJOR KUDOS, YOU MOST BRILLIANT PEOPLE!!!
That was an amazing episode! Thought-provoking. And a great insight into Sarah’s mind. I love that only when we reach the end is when it all made sense. Which means I have to re-watch (which I am doing right now) several times to get the nuances I’ve missed the first time and for it to make even more sense. It had every element that I love about this show. Loved this episode a lot!
Bravo!
Ever since I saw The Sixth Sense I thought I would never be fooled like that again… WRONG! This episode made me feel the same way again (M. Night Shyamalan should take a lesson from you guys!!). I didn’t “figure it out” until both Sarah and John got shot and Cameron didn’t come barreling down on the doctor Terminator. I thought, “Wait, THIS is the dream!!”.
I also loved (now looking back that is was Sarah’s subconscious) how Sarah is worried about John and how he feels about Cameron (i.e. Cameron in her underwear is stuck in Sarah’s head) and how she is concerned that John sees Cameron as a better “mother figure” (e.g. the pancake thing).
AWESOME!!
AllergyGal, The c-section was from John. Ed Winston commented how the scar was between 15-20 years old. Winston didn’t figure out that Sarah had a kid, until he connected the dots between her accomplice, her c-section scar, and why she belived the story about his son.
that was badass loved the guy taking it to eye.tscc is badass . i hope we get a season3 .
I’ve been wondering, and still am, what happened when Sarah passed out outside the factory. Based on this we have to assume there was some treatment given to both her and Winston. Where? And when did the company come collect Winston to fix him up? It’s just a HUGE story gap that’s been glossed over, so I’m expecting some flashbacks there.
So, this ep had to occur post Cantus, which means Sarah was kidnapped AFTER they all watched the HK fly off into the night. Seems like they would have all been on high alert after seeing the HK…so how exactly does this Winston guy snag Sarah without any of them noticing? And wouldn’t she have raced for the nearest cell phone to check in with everyone as soon as she was free?? These gaps are hard for me to just gloss over. Hoping there will be some story backfill to stitch these gap.
On it’s own tonight’s story was OK. Best of the 2009 eps. But I have to say I don’t get the reason why she’d be dreaming about not sleeping for 2 weeks….and what was the whole diversionary storyline with the woman who burned herself in her sleep? Is that a symbolism for the compulsion that Sarah has that will eventually burn her if she doesn’t let it go? If so, kind of obtuse, and the airtime would have been much better spent letting John and Cameron knock boots…since its only a dream, right? That would have been a killer moment, and they could have let Cameron express some serious emotions, which would be completely freaky until the dream aspect is revealed.
It was entertaining, but I agree it didn’t advance the main arc of the season.
Oh, and since Sarah is now down an arm & a leg, could she maybe show it every now and again?
I would like to take a moment and ask “What the F happened to the show?” Ok.
First, when your show gets moved to Friday…The Fonz is basically on the water skiis at the end of the ramp.. The acting is not to blame..wonderful acting. Even the minor characters are on top of their game. So, what happened? The writers, suck! Yes I will say it again. Suck. The writers took a perfectly good sci fi show and turned it into an introspective self psycho babel soap opera. The writers broke the golden rule. What brought people to the show, was the action. Wide angle shots with explosions and fight scenes. Excellent. The last couple of shows the camera angles are what I call soap opera shots. Very tight on the actors from the just below the shoulders and up. If its not broken don’t try to fix it. The terminator was in a scene tonight where she walks by in her bra and underwear. She went from bashing in faces to underwear shots and talking about adding vanilla to the pancake box recipe. Are you F’en kidding me? Pancakes!!! The episodes seem to be based upon what actors are available for shooting that day. What happened to the premise of the show where they are on the run? People are chasing them down, and they terminator comes in at the last second to save them? Which ever writer came up with the line “Maybe we should get deeper in the characters?” should go back to day time television or wherever they came from. What a disappointment.
Al B. Bach, After I watch the episode for the second time, everything made a lot more sense. I suggest doing the same, because all of your questions will answer themselves if you play close attention to the dialouge. I hope I don’t come off as rude. I’m just tyring to be helpful.
A solid episode. Kudos to the writer(s).
FOX, DO NOT CANCEL THIS SERIES!!!
Overall, a better balanced show than last week’s and the prior. It has a little bit of everything.
More story FOCUS without it jumping all over the place like many of the past episodes, which was very good to see.
I had a hunch it was a dream, though.
Too bad the John/Cameron interaction was only a fake out. And it would have been VERY, VERY cool if the “sleep lab” had been a real cover op. and this was a “black ops” company that would have lead to advanced Terminator technology. How to build a better infiltrator? Map the human brain into a neural net processor. It would have tied together perfectly into the chip described by the company techie in “Strange Things Happen…”
It would have helped tie what happened to Allison Young together as well: Skynet does a deep brain wave scan pattern copy of Allison’s “mind” into Cameron’s chip. Then to polish off the melding, Cameron (a kind of “blank slate” machine) interrogates Allison to learn her other vitals like personal information and personality ticks and traits before going off on her mission. It would make what happened with Vick more understandable.
However, this helps Cameron start to “walk a mile” in a human’s shoes. It affects her and starts to create a conflict within her. Allison has become like her conscience where there was none before, her key to some kind of understanding of empathy, humanity, and the human condition. It strengthens the “identity” of a very special AI entity. It gives her a heart. The “it” is now a “she,” and individual.
A dash of Cameron, a dash of Allison mixed together into a blend, a whipped smoothie of a Terminator.
Not so much a “ghost in the shell,” but a kind of Jiminy Cricket running around Cameron’s programming, whispering in her mind.
I wish, again, that the story had really picked up when we needed it most at the half way point right before the move to Fridays, but now there’s nothing we can do to reset the past.
Hopefully, the damage will start to repair itself in the last few episodes. I really hope so. Enough so that at least SOME network will give a fresh and revitalized Season 3 a chance.
Oh, and “The Dos Bichos are Back!” next week! LOL!
Riley and Jesse, you weasels!
That episode was freaking amazing! Thank you so much for that!
I nearly threw my remote control at the TV one time that a commercial break came on and interrupted the show–that’s how involved I was throughout the episode.
Brilliantly written, and acted out.
PS. I loved hearing the monologues again.
I agree that it was nice hearing Sarah’s voice-overs return. A nice touch!
Thanks for bringing them back.
Just FYI for when you guys write episodes for season 3 (because we’re gonna get it, damnit!)… people really do like Sarah’s voice-overs. A poll has been up for awhile at the wiki… over 53% of those that voted want voice-overs back in every ep
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Sarah+Connor%27s+Monologues
LOL Raineth I hated that the commercial came on at that point!!!!
I threw my remote onto the couch, the channel changed on me and the batteries popped out. I had to dive onto the floor to retrieve my batters and pop them back into the remote to change the channel. LOL!
But I liked that Verizon wireless seems to be a TSCC supporter conccideringthey have TSCC stuff on the v-cast phone.
Dan Hitchman Who knows about the brain mapping. Maybe its already happening we just don’t know it yet. Apparently Sarah suspects skynet is doing something like that.
Keep up the John and Cameron moments. Those were wonderful.
Say it with me now…Season 3!!!!!
Thank you for the monologues.
some watch, was a very good ep, I decided to post this before reading any other posts.
The thing is this ep was so much better than the last 4, I have to wonder why ? is it maybe whoever directs the eps?
this show was a “sarah” show it had dreams, not alot of action, not alot of cameron, but it was so much better…. I guess it was “tight”
It had me fooled as to which were the dreams, I knew about 20 min in that someone was trying to get info from her, but I thought the hospital scenes were the real ones, cause the other guy was dead !!!!!! so I have to say good writing there as he wasnt dead, just faked his death.
I actually thought when sarah and john were killed that the ep might end there , as a cliffhanger, it would have been a classic if u had.
I also liked the voice overs, they were well done and add class to the show.
john was nice to cam, that was good.
and last I liked the coyote !!!!!
so overall this was one of the better eps of this whole season, and I thought going in that it wouldnt be very good, so was pleasantly surprised.
now on to read what others thought.
This episode is boring.
RILEY NEEDS TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So… you’re not even trying to be subtle now about intentionally trying to get your show canceled, are ya Josh?
I got so bored after 20 minutes that I decided to just tape it and go do laundry instead. I resumed watching it an hour later, and ended up fast forwarding through all but maybe 10 minutes of what was left. Summer Glau in her undies was nice, but come on now, fanservice? Really Josh? Is that where you’re at now?
This will probably be the one and only time I say this, and it pains my fingers to type it out, but the Network was right. You just wasted three episodes your show couldn’t afford to waste. Next week’s ep is the one we’ve been waiting for since December, so why in the name of all that is good and shiny in this universe did you make us sit through three hours of cerebral Sarah before giving us the show we thought we were watching?
I’m aware I am being harshly honest here, but you need to understand this comes from sheer admiration for what you managed in season 1, and the first half of season 2. I don’t know why you decided to bet the farm in this manner, but you need to track down whatever little voice inside your head told you to go for broke with this tangent, and drag it out back behind the studio and put two in it’s forehead, before it gets you fired and your show canceled.
I have to agree with you AL B…..
the airtime would have been much better spent letting John and Cameron knock boots…since its only a dream, right? That would have been a killer moment, and they could have let Cameron express some serious emotions, which would be completely freaky until the dream aspect is revealed.
SEEMS THAT MOST PosTING here liked it, and it is the first ep sice self made man that I want to rewatch, maybe more than once.
I think john h is a troll ??
A solid episode with a nice twist at the end. But to be honest, enough of sarah’s psyche for now. It’s interesting, I am not as negative towards it as some others are, but I am now dying for the other characters and storylines. And… Too bad the scenes with John and Cameron were in her mind… Well, I liked seeing them anyway. I hope there is more of that… in “reality” that is.
Great episode to remind the audience of the true inner workings of Sarah’s psyche where before she was filled with grief for killing in self-defense but when she killed Winston, “this time” in order to keep John safe, she did it without even a hint of remorse. Hooray more John and Cameron! When I saw the underwear scene my jaw dropped and I immediately became envious of Thomas Dekker. Still, going back to the inner workings of Sarah’s psyche, it’s good to see that she’s threatened by Cameron. It means that the thought of John and her hooking up, from Sarah’s POV, isn’t that farfetched.
Now if only we can get Sarah to come around and say something akin to one of my favorite T2 voiceovers: “Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator wouldn’t stop, it would never leave him. It would never hurt him or shout at him or get drunk and hit him or say it was too busy to spend time with him. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers that came over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only thing that measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice. “
More Cameron please.
Some things didn’t made any sense, but it was a pretty ok episode and now that this episode is the final chapter of the so-called series ’ exploration of Sarah Connor’s mental journey’ I’m glad, because from now on hopefully we can see more ACTION and more of John Henry, John Connor & Cameron and of course, Cameron vs. Catherine Weaver would be great!
Can’t wait for next Friday!;)
Impressed
Great episode. Keep it rolling
That was an extraordinary episode. Amazing work from writers and cast - especially Lena. Please excuse me, I think I need to go relearn how to breathe…
Meh… another episode of wasted potential.
Am I the only one who likes Cameron and also really likes Summer Glau that was actually pissed at her prancing around in bra and panties? It’s like they gave in to Fox’s ad campains. I mean the point that Sarah feels threatened by Cameron, disturbingly in more than just one aspect, could’ve been made much more subtle. Everytime I watch this show and think back at the brilliance of T1 and to a lesser degree T2 I weep for all that could’ve been done with this series.
I thought the episode was pretty good because it exhibited many of the traits that have made the show, in general very good: Some action/violence, some humor, Summer Glau, and the examination of the relationship between Cameron and John, or more generally: whether or not the robots can have emotions, or be more human-like.
The past three episodes were terrible because they more or less lacked all three of these traits. I think it’s pretty irresponsible to come out of a mid-season break like that with a struggling show. I hope there’s at least some closure at the end of the season… :-/
Suprisingly good episode. Very smart. Perhaps the pacing was a bit challenging and maybe to complicated in appealing to some viewers. But hey it’s gutsy and I like it that way
The story kept me guessing all through. I thought I had the answer but got fooled by the final twist. Loved the metaphor with the coyote and the orderly/janitor. I understand that some may have issues on how the more fast pacing and spirit of the movies and that that the feel of the movies may not come across with episodes like this.
While story of this episode also may create a sense of sidretracking the main story arc of the season, it also brings something new and unexptected. I guess there is fine line to balance between innovative storytelling and keeping the episodes close to the essence of the movies which viewer may be more familiar with. Sometime getting off the beaten path can create som interesting results though.
I just hope that Fox can give this Friday timeslot enough leeway for T:SCC to accept eventual drop in viewers that this kind of storytelling a show like this can create. There are some smart viewer who like this and who will tune in for more sophisticated and gutsy non-procedural storytelling and give a this show a possible continuation with season three.
X-files got the benefit of a doubt and survived on Fridays. I just hope Fox don’t give up on it yet. Like the X-files, this franshise is also (for me and for many others I hope) such a big part of Fox and its parent companies (perhaps even more than the X-files) and therefore it should be seen as a long-term investment, creating a stronger benefit than the initial ratings may show. I hope I’m not the only one who sees it like that.
Thanks again for a good episode, can’t wait what’ll happen next.
Beautifully writting and execution. Please please keep em coming!
I guess I’m the only one glad that particular story arc is over with. Let’s get on with the show, which is Sarah, protecting John. Thank you. And let’s please see a little more of John? I know it’s the Sarah show but we need to see the reason of her living, right? And his other protector? How about his only other living relative? Enough with the extras and guest stars. Let’s concentrate on the Connors, okay?
Amazing. Keep the great scripts coming!!
What is TSCC? A new Twin Peaks? I think this episode was the last.
The episode overall was good. Made me wonder again as to the level of John’s relationsship with Cameron as compared to his relationship with Riley. I must admit however that I got a bit confused around the end, where you pointed out that the moments you previously had labled dreams were indeed reality, and the piece you considered reality were labled dreams. I guess you were supposed to get this from the fact that Sarah and John both were shot, but considering Sarah’s been shot before and I fully expected John to be wearing a bulletproof vest, along with the fact that, as John pointed out, Dreams seem real, and that theoretically Sarah could have killed the guard in a dream, made it hard on me to make the trasition between the two ways of thought. Something even more clarifying, would probably have made it easier on the audience. Besides, time travel alone gives us enough to think about. ; )
Wow, look at the extreme opposite comments on this episode. Many loved it, some hated it. Even after it finished I wasn’t sure I realized fully what was going on. A few of the comments here clarified it. Thanks. I’m not the slickest ski on the slope.
I think Matt is right it probably was just a bit too challenging and complicated for a number of viewers. But, I would not want the writers to simplify things. They push it, and that’s good. This show has an amazing staff of writers to go along with everything else. Can’t wait to see Toni’s upcoming episodes.
Personally, I still liked “The Good Wound” best of the Sarah triptych. But that’s just me.
They stole the opening aerial shot from the movie Heat.
Jo,
I think if you’ve read some of the other posts previous to these you’d find that quite a few people, me included, have not particularly liked the Sarah “Psych 101″ Trilogy, especially since the show is skating on two inches of ice at the moment, and the lake is cracking around us.
Yes, it’s interesting to some extent, but to really capture the audience you need to remind them it’s the “Terminator” show and not just about Sarah going all wiggie.
I think most would really rather have had more John and Cameron in a very positive light than a dour Sarah.
Where’s “spunky” Sarah, “spunky” John, and “spunky” Cameron? They can’t just be in a dream state, we need them in “reality.”
And I really hope Josh hasn’t decided to burn all his audience bridges by making Cameron suddenly bad. That would just seem like he was punishing us for liking Cameron more than Sarah and John (right now, anyway).
Keep Jesse and Riley bad and mostly wrong, since we hate ‘em (and many wish Riley had never even shown up), and Cameron and John’s strong relationship as the only good thing in this possible apocalyptic nightmare. You know, the hope? Some humans just don’t understand and are prejudice and jaundiced to a very unique romance. Something along those lines.
I hope too that we’re not bashing our heads against the walls after the last episode, “Born to Run” (I’m still thinkin” Springsteen, baby!!), and saying that the show had so much potential, but it got bogged down and the message lost.
Compared to the boring crapfest of Desert Cantos, this episode was very entertaining. Thank god we are done withe Sarah Connor: Psycho Analysis. We could have explored her psych a lot quicker, with less filler and a lot more entertaining then we did in the last five or six episodes. The remaining shows look to be finally getting back to the main plot and hopefully ratings will improve. Although I fear it will be to little, to late for some fans and FOX executives.
I loved last night epp. the return off pancakes and there better that moms lol
Another song that really speaks to me:
Coldplay: “Clocks”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9j_RZDqYc4
Lights go out and I can’t be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Brought me down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead
Singin’, come out if things aren’t said
Shoot an apple off my head
And a trouble that can’t be named
Tigers waitin’ to be tamed
Singing, yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yoooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Confusion never stops
Closing walls and tickin’ clocks
Gonna, come back and take you home
I could not stop that you now know
Singin’, come out upon my seas
Curse missed opportunities
Am I a part of the cure
Or am I part of the disease?
Singin’, yoooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Oh, nothing else compares
Oh, nothing else compares
And nothing else compares
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Yooooooooooooo ohhhhhh
Home, home, where I wanted to go
Home, home, where I wanted to go
Home, home, where I wanted to go
Home, home, where I wanted to go
Although I’m gald to move away from Sarah’s psych stuff, I can’t say that it left me at all disappointed. Especially this esisode; and especially the thrilling end! Maybe I’m just stupid, but I didn’t even realise that it was a dream even when John got shot. I just assumed Cameron would save them and that he would recover. Maybe that “Death of a Loved One” written three times just has me weary. But the writers did have me fooled for about 55/60 minutes of the episode. Great job guys!
I thought that this really gave us a good look into the mind of a person who has to deal with the emotional stresses of having to protect her son from the end of the world and he only resents her for it. In her mind, he looks up too Cameron more. We really get to see what she really fears: any harm to John. After all, we saw what she did to preotect him: she bit her own wrist (and I thought I heard a snap) and stabbed a needle into Winston’s eye (that made me cringe, but I still thought, “Wow, that’s some serious stuff, Sarah).
I too refuse to call it “Jameron,” but yes I did like the “John and Cameron” interaction in this episode (Memories of S1). And well, for the underwear scene, I do feel like they are exploiting Summer’s attractiveness for the benefit of the show, but hey I can’t exactly complain. I guess that would hook on some of the new viewers intrigued by the commercials. If that helps ratings then great.
All and all, a very good episode. And then it exploded into a very very very good episode at the end. The promo left me confident for a S3. Hopefully new audiences will see the ads, tune in, and get hooked like the rest of us.
Bravo! And long live TSCC!
Crazy Sarah kicks ass.
I cannot believe the number of favorable comments about the Feb 27 show! The show before it was confusing enough, but that one was total jibberish for me and I have been a big Sci-Fi fan for over 50 years. The cast is outstanding but the crew needs to look for a new line of work. I will give the show one more chance and then take it off my watch list if it doesn’t change.
Charlie, I’m torn, buddy! As much as I know they were exploiting Summer’s beauty, I turned my head, just like John did, and my eyes bugged out when Cam walked (or floated) by in that lovely ensemble of virtual nothingness. :blush:
Curse my man-ness!
I did like Sarah taking charge and protecting herself, and I liked how they worked in the fact that Sarah shouldn’t have felt so badly about Winston because she was only protecting herself. Now, why John didn’t feel that way about Sarkissian, I don’t know.
PTSD?? Grumble, grumble.
And I must take umbrage in the fact that Sarah has never killed before, though it was not SPECIFICALLY stated in T2. It was, however, quite heavily implied that Sarah was a tough and hardened fighter by the time she was locked up.
She was doing some pretty naughty things when she was captured and arrested, and she was MORE THAN willing to kill or seriously injure Dougie, Dr. Silberman, and her other “jailers” at Pescadero (even though they were scum)., and very willing to shoot the crap out of Dyson’s house and shoot anybody in her line of sight. She had gone off the reservation and had become lost to herself. John had to snap her out of it.
Please don’t think we haven’t seen these James Cameron movies time and time again. It just makes it seem like you think our memories are going bad! LOL!
Just watched it……really different episode i gotta say……but i was surprised. But i guess ‘ll have to see it again, to really understand.
But considering the fact, that it was a dream, i have to say that the way they have bult in the chips, almost naked Cameron and that pancake stuff is really amazing!
Good job…!
Let’s hope, there will be a lot of episodes in the future for us to watch!
By the way, does anyone know, where you can actually see the ratings???
Thanks!
I would like to add that Cameron in her underwear is not only “exploiting her attractiveness” guys… I took it, seeing it’s in sarah’s dream, that it’s in her head… it’s her fear of John getting to close to Cameron. Exactly the same happened in season one, and this was a reminder of that moment. Sarah’s is simply worried… This is one of the many scenes that say that… Same goes for the pancakes. Sarah is worried Cameron might replace her in her protector/helper role.
Scy800,
I know that about Sarah’s dreamscape, but the whole “Victoria’s Secret” strut in the silk panties and bra is something definitely for the boys if you know what I’m sayin.’ It was an ogle-fest to be sure.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that… um, er…
And yes, Sarah is probably going to betray John and Cameron in some way and side with Jesse that Cameron must be put out to pasture. But will she see the light towards the end? Hmmm… [chin rub]
Like I said, this was better than I expected and I did enjoy it but I think there are very few people who aren’t tired of the cliche of “exploring demons”, and “getting into their heads”. At some point it’s just more Hollywood crap that has been done on most shows only after they run out of real story to tell.
If you look at the last three episodes what did we find out. The bottom line is we knew Sarah really loves John and would do anything to protect him. Now we know she really really loves John and would do anything to protect him. When I stand back and look at the overall effect I see this diversion as an il-advised gamble that has lost viewership and may have cost us our favorite hour of entertainment. I hope I’m wrong.
Snake, I’m not saying you’re wrong here.
Though, one TINY tid bit we got was that the Calibra Co. may be the true villains in all this. Perhaps Catherine is a teensie bit more good than we were led to believe.
Now, as you all know, I’m a BIG “shipper,” so Cameron seducing John (even if it was a dream) made me say, “YES!! It’s about time things got turned up a notch or two!”
Here’s the PERFECT song for John and Cameron in that sense! Tongue ‘n’ cheek, but still cool.
Peter Gabriel’s “Shock The Monkey”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oaSZxd9jOY
Cover me, when I run
Cover me, through the fire
Somethin’ knocked me out’ the trees
Now I’m on my knees
Cover me, darlin’ please
Hey! Monkey, monkey, monkey
Don’t you know you’re gonna shock the monkey?
Hey!
Fox the fox
Rat of the rat
You can ape the ape
I know about that
There is one thing you must be sure of
I can’t take any more
Darlin’, don’t you monkey with the monkey!
Hey! Monkey, monkey, monkey!
Don’t you know you’re gonna shock the monkey?
Hey! Shock the monkey!
Hey!
Monkey!
Wheels keep turnin’
A-monkey!
Somethin’s burnin’
Don’t like it, but I guess I’m learnin’
Shock! Shock! Shock!
Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey!
Cover me, when I sleep
Cover me, when I breathe
You throw your pearls before the swine
Make the monkey blind
Cover me, darlin’ please
Hey!
Monkey!
Too much at stake
A-monkey!
Ground beneath me shake
Monkey!
And the news is breaking
Shock! Shock! Shock!
Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey!
Shock the monkey!
Shock the monkey!
Shock the monkey to life
Shock the monkey to life
Shock the monkey to life…
Shock the monkey!
Shock the monkey!
Shock the monkey!…
Shock the monkey!
Shock the monkey to life!
I like plot twists as much as the next guy.
I liked the dream/reality reversal.
But I’m reminded of Hitchcock’s Stage Fright, which showed an erroneous flashback. It wasn’t ‘wrong’ per se, but rule breaking.
In the fake dream sequence it was all first person. Sarah/Winston.
In the fake reality we see scenes without Sarah. re: Cameron in underwear, Nurse Rachet in hallway, etc.
Again, not ‘wrong’ but it certainly (falsely) enhanced the depiction of reality. I think without it the twist would have been much more difficult to pull off.
Oh My God, Another Lyric?
I thinks that means you liked this episode Dan, hehe.
Anyways i counted like 7 or 8 comments of people reeally hating this episode while the other 66 or so liked or praised the improvment.
I guess the hating comes from the stress of having only 6 more episodes to see where the story is going and if we can get a season 3… if the surprises keep coming i bet we will.
Any way, personally i liked this episode, i liked the nods to season 1, and the change in terms of Sarah behavior… i mean i liked this violent “do what it takes”- desperate Sarah, i guess if you want to stop the end of the world nothing should stop you.
And finally to some comments i read… isn’t it obvious that Calibra Co. is sub contracted or a facade of Zeira corp, isn’t obvious that Weaver Destroyed the warehouse cause the leaking of information could compromise at some level her mission?, i mean look at the way the terminator who ended up in the twenties worked, if he killed the maker of that building he do wahtever it takes to make the building again to ensure his mission, no matter how long it takes and what does he has to do, if that means bankrupt his competition.
well see ya, and let’s just try to enjoy what’s left on this season, and hope for a third.
thanks for killing this show
Gregg,
That was one point that kinda bugged me about the episode. Thanks for bringing that “rule breaking” item up.
They have made Sarah, as a physical character, up to be like a prophet who knows and sees more than any mere mortal should be able to (Dr. Sherman, the turtle, three-dots, etc.). I think the voice-overs should cover those points instead since that is the role of a limited omniscient and fully omniscient narrator in storytelling.
But, that’s just me.
Fabrice,
Ouch, baby! Very, very ouch!
I have to say, while the episodes are interesting, it is “TERMINATOR - Sarah Connor Chronicles.” There should be more action like there was in the first season. My friend has already given up on the show, but I’m going to stick it out a couple more episodes, and if there’s still nothing, just wait till next season to start watching again.
Firstly; stop with the lyrics DAN! You’ve been told before about this.
Secondly; the initial numbers are in for this episode.
We got around 3.4 1.2/4
*sigh*
Wow fabrice, that’s a little harsh.
This was a very intelligent episode and the whole Sarah arc was wonderful and a great insight into Sarah, who has the name on the title of the show, lest we forget.
It’s good that characters are explored right along with the action and the sci-fi aspects. It makes for interesting television.
Sad that a lot don’t ‘get it’ because they’d rather have brainless tv.
i think people still want this to be T2 in a weekly basis… which is imposible… as much as a fan i am of Terminator watching t2 weekly would become boring
Initial numbers… eegads!
Well, I think we had a good idea that this particular story arc would make things worse for the ratings before they could get better.
I hope they pick back up for the next one, which I HOPE is spectacular. I hope, I hope, I hope!!
its was an alright episode. it gets a B from me. i feel like were losing a lot of time here during the episodes. its got to get better from here
I’m hoping that next week ep will draw more viewers, it’s all about Cam and her hopefully taking out Riley (even though i could wait for the season finale if she died in a more horrible gruesome manner lol if u can’t tell I don’t like Riley AT ALL) but anyhow thought this weeks ep was decent, not the fan catcher we were hoping for but hey there’s still time, personally i think now that the sarah mental saga is over and done with things will pick up, S3 is still on the line so I’m doing my more then keeping my fingers crossed…
anyways give us some promos for next week please!!
The ratings declined again last night, TSCC lost huge to “Howie Do It”. TSCC’s ratings were even significantly lower than the re-run that aired at 8:30.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/02/28/friday-ratings-ghost-whisperer-dominates-tscc-and-dollhouse-continue-to-slide/13670
So… Josh Friedman, are done yet with the psychobabble crazy Sarah episode arc? I hate to say it, but TSCC may be so bad right now it’s going to cause Dollhouse to be canceled. Fox may need a stronger lead-in as TSCC is losing viewers every week.
OMG. Wife Swap beats Sarah Connor Chronicles? People really watch that?
The writers here must be thinking: “You know, there’s only a small portion of the viewing public we can write for. The rest of them just watch brain dead shows”.
It must be frustrating for them. It’s sad. But don’t give up.
I liked the episode. I really did.
I just feel that it came at an unfortunate time…
This was a perfect stand-alone, but had no progression of story line.
I hope that it was well received by the “ratings board”.
Hopefully there will be more progression in the next few weeks.
You guys have 80,000 fans on facebook… that says something at least.
Bring back Chola!
4Day:
We actually do get it. We know that Sarah is tormented, we know she suffers from battle fatigue, we know she has PTSD. All of these things have been explored in so many venues that the story line is tired and really can’t be made very interesting. We really don’t need to see all of her neurotic foibles in excrutiating mind numbing detail. This isn’t intelligent tv this is rehashed psychobabble that every craphouse wanna be director has tried in one fashion or another. It’s tired, it’s old, and it doesn’t fit the genre of the Terminator.
This show has been reduced to a soap opera when it could be an intelligent science/ technology based action-adventure. That is how the show was sold to the fans and that is what made it a hit. They should have stuck to the plan.
I didn’t mind the psyche trip but that’s probably because I try to see the good in any episode, including other shows, and like I said earlier the difference in Sarah’s levels of guilt when she killed in self defense versus when she killed to protect John was very interesting to see. Also Lena really nailed SC down good in that last episode so props to her..
But right now I’m ready for some good old fashion Terminator. I tried finding ratings for last night’s episode but so far no such luck. Hopefully once the automatics start firing in the coming episodes (like I expect them to) the ratings will increase significantly.
I had to watch this great episode again. It all made perfect sense the 2nd time around. I loved Sarah in this episode. She has truly evolved and developed as a character. She has moves far from T1 and T2. She is a true badass now. She killed Winston with no hesitation. Lena Headey has really impressed me. I am a gay guy who has a crush on Lena and Summer. That is saying something. Great job, now FOX better not cancel this or I will be depressed. Long live SARAH CONNOR!!!!
I LOVED this episode. Lena was just incredible (as always) but even more so in this episode. She is fast becoming my favorite actor. I really liked Sarah’s roommate Dana as well. The actress who played her was brilliant. This character is funny and sassy and I liked how she got along with Sarah. I would not be opposed to see her back again in some form or another. The Nurse if she was real and a terminator was also wonderfully performed. She would make a new great nemesis for the Connors. Winston was creepy in a fantastic way and I loved watching Sarah kick his @ss… Last but not least I loved the coyote. He was adorable. Sarah needs a pet. heh. I admit I was a little confused on what was going on but it didn’t matter. This was one of my absolute favorite episodes this season and I’m glad to see so many positive comments.
One of the best episode.
It’s now one of my fav episodes together with palmdale.
Excellent writing just perfect.
Cant wait for the next show just saw the awesome made trailer.
I’ve stopped watching shows about 6 years and TCC made me watch again.
Good luck and best wishes from Germany
Just a question. I thought I saw the ratings were 3.4 or something. Isn’t that higher than it has been?
Just rewatched on FOD, and picked up a few things that i missed the first time around …somehow missed a chunk of 2-3 min at the start when she was tazed, so that filled in a hole…though still not very realistic to think that Sarah would go investigate a facility on her own (again!) especially when she now KNOWs she’s likely to find resistance. It’s not like she couldn’t have taken Cameron with her…but, fine.
I’m assuming that since she left her car at the facility and drove the van back (with Winston’s body in it?) they’re going to go back there soon and investigate per the original plan.
The throw away line that she got the lead for this place from watching tapes at a sleep clinic was a BIG deal and shouldn’t have been buried like that. I’ve listened to it 5x and still can’t understand exactly what Sarah says about viewing all the tapes. Where’d this clinic lead and investigaion backstory suddenly appear from, btw??
OK, so the clinic doc is an attractive female terminator…why? I didn’t see all of Season 1, but at this point in the timeline isn’t Cameron the only female terminator? And has there ever been a storyline that explains WHY Cameron is a smokin’ hot co-ed? Seems strange that they would make this doc a female terminator, unless she was supposed to represent Sarah’s distrust for Cameron. It’s an interesting parallel to the likely prime mission for Cameron originally; to gain John’s trust and then exploit him for information to benefit Skynet.
What’s the point of “you fell down a flight of stairs” and the forehead scrape?
I’m guessing that Winston’s whole seed monologue alludes to the likelyhood that Skynet has assimilated strategy & tactics from this ex-military security officer, which is how they will eventually originate the idea of the first terminator time-travelling mission. Will we now see these seeds outside doors where ever Winston’s been? Leading like a bread crumb trail to Skynet? Surely their going to rifle Winston’s body for ID’s keys, security cards, etc. and see where that leads them. If they DON’T do that, and just leave his body for someone to find, well…then I’m done watching cause that would be just irresponsible of the writers.
I’m giving Josh & Co. the credit that embedded in all this psyco soap opera dialog are clues that foreshadow aspects of meaningful story points. I have to say I’m getting quite sick of queuing them all up in my head, though. It would be nice if sometime soon we could see the pay off for paying attention through all this.
If you’ve read this far into this post I figure this next bit isn’t too geeky for you:
I think it’s clear that Cameron’s original mission was to gain John’s trust and exploit that relationship to feed secrets back to Skynet, and eventually take down John. If that’s the case then we can safely assume that Cam is build for speed. She’s fully functional. She’d have to be. Well, at least 2nd base, let’s say. So, it shouldn’t be a stretch to think that Cam wouldn’t “glitch” and begin to pursue John far more aggressively from a sexual angle. That would be a fun episode. If Cam started seducing John. Maybe she has a glass of champagne to “fit in” when they celebrate some event with a group toast, and the alchohol triggers a “tipsy” subroutine that was designed to mimic how Alison would respond. Future John and his team may have missed it in the reprogramming because it was built into the core balance functions vs. the higher order operational and mission programming. Kind of like Cameron’s Id. The program plays out with her becoming quite the seductress, and John finds himself in very uncharted waters. What would he do if Cam offered herself to him?
Ok…time to go clean the garage.
That episode was AMAZING! Definitely one of the best this season.
Episode 14 - 3.90 million viewers
Episode 15 - 3.85 million viewers
Episode 16 - 3.42 million viewers
That’s per the Nielsen rating system.
“Some of you will love it and some will hate it, but as you talk about it here, please remember to be respectful of everyone!”
Jeez… Even Hadley has lost the “Happy Go lucky’ feeling the blog is supposed to project. Things are bad when you are “expecting” bad behavior.
It was a good EP… Not needed… but a good EP.
I don’t understand the “Sarah Quad” shows. I don’t understand why an established main character like Sarah Connor needs to have her mental problems explored. Write the stories that can get you another year of employment. Someone with TV experience needed to be a co-producer.
I agree that Sarah doing the biting wrist thing made me go ” Now that’s Sarah Conner!”. Sometimes I feel like her character doesn’t quite ring true( or John’s either) but this episode was a dead on hit! I LOVE this show! I didn’t get to see the promo for next episode, but about ya’ll’s comments on Cameron seducing John- get real! This boy has grown up living and breathing terminators, do you really think he would sleep with one no matter how much he “trusts” her?
I loved it. The entire episode was filled with suspense and even someone who hasn’t been watching the series would have been waiting anxiously every commercial break. There definitely was continuity in this episode. I know everyone wants robots but..Sarah killing a man is a huge deal for her. There needed to be resolution and this episode finally delivered it. We now know that Sarah would willingly do the thing she hates the most for John.
This show is OFF THE CHAIN!!! I was in the beauty salon today. It is the place women in my community gather to communicate opinions on various topics. When the subject of what are your best TV shows, I told them mine was Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles! As aspected many people in my enviorment may not choose to watch what they may feel is another supper skinny supper hero white chick kickin butt show. Well, I too once thought this when the show first came on, but I chose to watch it because I loved all the Terminater movies. I have been hooked every since. I told them of the continued excitement that men enjoy with the fights and car chases and the tenderness of a mother that would do anything to protect the one’s she loves. This show is so great I am wondering how many awards has it gotten and if it hasn’t it should. I just hope (like every new season) it can stay as exciting as it is right now. Each show I watch each week of this new season is even more exciting than the one before. The writers, producers and actors should be commended on the great job they are all doing. I useually have at least one thing about a show that even though it’s good, I give some suggestions for improvement, but right now, all I have is great things to say about this show!!!
“We actually do get it. We know that Sarah is tormented, we know she suffers from battle fatigue, we know she has PTSD. All of these things have been explored in so many venues that the story line is tired and really can’t be made very interesting. We really don’t need to see all of her neurotic foibles in excrutiating mind numbing detail. This isn’t intelligent tv this is rehashed psychobabble that every craphouse wanna be director has tried in one fashion or another. It’s tired, it’s old, and it doesn’t fit the genre of the Terminator.
This show has been reduced to a soap opera when it could be an intelligent science/ technology based action-adventure. That is how the show was sold to the fans and that is what made it a hit. They should have stuck to the plan.”
Thanks Snake, you said a mouthful.
Sarah doesn’t have PTSD: her horrors are real, and they can happen at any time in tehr present, and are sure to happen in the future not only for her but for her son. How do you take “time off” from that. Very intense, and she can’t let go bc it won’t let go of her. Somethings GOT to *give* somewhere, and the other side NEVER rests!
It’d be a much bigger deal if SC had to kill a human in order to protect Cameron, her son’t protector. Would she do it? Hesitate? Be conflicted after, if she did?
The show is mainly a soap opera now and has been set up that way on purpose, for what reason I can’t fathom but to not a good end result. Previous ep should have been Law & Order with cool sound…
This was a good ep buy not a good Ternimator story. That’s the dif. A lot of fans are saying they like it, but I think that has more to do with trying to get Fox to renew than accepting straying so far from Terminator roots. Glad some fans see the dif and not cop out.
Terminator has been a majorly successful franchise for 25 years - and will be so for many more years to come: specifically bc McG went out and tried to find what folks really wanted in Terminator and then provide them with THAT. To do anything other is…
I can’t imagine any of the fans here or on other TSCC fan sites stating that this is the kind of show they want: dark, slow melodrama with no/little action or Terminators.
This is supposed to be a sc fi action show ABOUT Terminators! We even have a GOOD one (Camiator) and we hardly EVER get to see her! _and the show is struggling in the ratings.
No hard to figure out why, is it?
WOW! This is TV? This could be several movies on the strength and depth of the storylines and characters. In fact this episode could have been expanded into more introspection along with parallels to Catherine Weaver’s puzzlement about the human thought process and emotions with her daughter and working through more Q&A with Cromartie and further twisting with Agent James Ellison. The only link needed would have been a hint at how Cromartie is being ‘raised’ or engineered to his ultimate design (which is still in specifics unknown).
As a multi-tasker watching in one browser window on one of many monitors I found myself lost when I watched this this morning at 2am. But at that hour I also found sympathy and a bit of goosebump/ hairs-on-end creepiness in Sara’s introspection about the demon’s of the night.
It had me so puzzled as to what had happened I tried to review it today but again came multi-tasking and Live Meeting multi-media overload. Now I’m going to have to watch it a third time
and confirm what others believe is that that one storyline was a dream and not the whole episode (and decide which was the storyline).
There are lots of untangible threads to this fine episode …and that is the art of storytelling. Alfred Hitchcock learned and mastered this - the greatest story that enganges the imagination of the audience is the untold one in the subconscious.
We all have fears of falling asleep and the demons that will suck us dry while we are at our weakest points. For Sara she has a lot on her mind to be concerned about and it no wonder she barely keeps it together.
As for the Cameron skin distraction scene, that not only is a ratings boon (beautiful woman) but is actually and interesting part of this story. Can John actually keep it straight in his hormone pumping youthful mind that Cameron isn’t real or will his mind and reason succomb to human disconnected impulse and allow her to be an inflatable friend diversion.
That will only be yet revealed when we learn why Jesse is so immersed in an extraordinarily elaborate, risky, and costly scheme to keep Cameron away from John. Does the reveal psyche vignettes hint that Sara senses this too? Is Jesse a villain or really a hero? I can’t wait to find out …but I have to
This series is fantastic and I can’t help but dismiss those worried about the studio heads. If you have ever liked a show you will realize that they will screw with its time slot and do very dumb and counterintuitive steps that undermine the concrete past success that appeal to the fan base. Why? They are always trying to get the perfect lineup and so never stop fiddling. They do not have a clue what the fan base wants and are quick to dismess any assertions otherwise.
Take The UNIT on CBS as an example of a series being tossed around with its fanbase confused on when it is on. Before this it was Lost having strange breaks between segments of the season. I’m sure a little Google FU would elicit more of the same idiotic planning. Strong series survive and this seems like one strong series from this member of the viewing audience. Just the comments in this thread alone show the depth of passion and quality of the viewership.
Sara Conner Chronicles will do well to continue if the soon to be released Terminator movie doesn’t undercut it but rather complements it. An exciting time for Sara fans.
Jue,
I think the fact that we needed to have moved quickly through Sarah going all nutty this season was for the fact that T2 already had Sarah go nutty and then snap out of it.
It was established, as I stated above, that Sarah Connor WAS a bad-ass who already has done her share of bad things to try and fight Skynet and then got caught and arrested and put in Pescadaro.
As pointed out before… Sarah, according to James Cameron, may have committed some crimes before being locked up. Besides, look at the company she kept for all those years! That’s one reason she lost her son John to the state.
Then she was willing to kill Dr. Silberman, bashed in an orderly’s face (though they had it coming), and tried to turn Miles Dyson and his family into Swiss cheese!
Too much of it was a rehash. Sure, it was in movie time in T2, but it did already get covered. Just like Emo-John. He had become fairly proactive when he was about 10! Then he got regressed and lost “da spunk” for much of the season.
I think the got on the computer ONCE during most of the season, and that was to Google something!
That particular ship should have sailed for maybe two episodes TOPS, but it got dragged on and on and on.
I really, really hate to say this, but sometimes I agree that if Season 3 were to EVER see the light of day, maybe they need a fresh perspective on this whole story, so it really sparks and sizzles as the audience seemingly wanted.
NBC did it for Heroes when it was tanking. I haven’t seen Season 3 yet to see if things improved for that show, but at least it was the ol’ college try.
BTW, why should a viewer have to watch a TV two or more times just to understand it? That may be cool for fans, but is suicide if you are trying to get broad public ratings…
OMFG. I LOVED THIS EPISODE.
First of all, the monologue is back! Yesss!
The twist at the end was brilliant, it took me a few minutes to understand what had happened.
tv by the numbers wont stop saying that were not geting next six shows and there is no hope for season 3 why they dont stop with hate and trashing of show its been non stop for weeks now. does anyone think this too?.
But some of you guys are talking like all the remaining episodes this season and a possible full next season are going to be just like the last few. That is extremely limited vision.
Josh may have gone against the wishes of FOX execs, and probably some fans too regarding these last three episodes, but these writers are damn good. A lot of great things could be in store for the future if FOX will let it continue.
I know, I know, you think FOX has already given up on the show because of the last few episodes and it’s hopeless. Let’s see what happens with the rest. Why come in here with all the doom and gloom and say the show is been PERMANENTLY reduced to what you don’t like? And what’s with all the whining from some people?
The remaining episodes are already written, filmed and in final post production. Can people stop with the whining? Geez. It’s simple. If people don’t like it, don’t watch it. Some people sound they’re completely done watching the show. So why are they here?
There’s nothing more annoying than people who are constantly whining. We need one of those big white signs, red circle with a line through the word “Whining”. Maybe Hadley could put one up here.
I’m nervious. It’s so good this episode, but the numbers… the f*** numbers…
Okay, It’s no hope, no more… season 2 is the final season. I know why…
But I want to watch the last six episode.
Please, Somebody tell me, I will watch six episode for season 2 on FOX??? (Because I’m really fear….)
I don’t think it’s hopeless, actually i would be very surprised if Fox pulled a Firefly all over again. I wouldn’t really care if Dollhouse got canceled ( to be honest I’m not getting the trademark Joss vibe from the first couple eps)
I really think the next couple episodes are just going to blow us all away!! Josh has promised so much, I know he’ll make it happen…I’m praying for a season three and i really think we’ll get it, even if it’s not on this network.
All and all this week’s ep could have been avoided (all sarah’s crazyness was already established in T2 as many of you have stated before) but no one can say the writing for Some Must Watch was bad, it was kickin AWESOME! but i bet Toni’s ep next week we’ll top all of the back nine we’ve seen so far…
TO TONI AND OUR VERY FAVORITE ROBOT!! (yes you all know who I’m talking about, deep down everybody feels the same way)
Friday come soon…
This was a really good episode in my opinion. Good drama, good action and good Cam/John interaction. Only thing that sort of disapointed me was that most of the Cam/John interaction turned out to be a dream. But I can live with that since it was necassary for the amazing twist at the end.
For the longest time I wanted Riley dead, now it might as well be Sarah, if nothing else just to make sure this story arc dies here and cant come back. Its getting old watching the clock and waiting for the real plot to move forward the last 3 or 4 episodes. Getting to the point that I almost welcome Riley back. As Cameron would say, fooled ya again!!!
Snake, you took that way too personally and is too quick on the defensive. I was meaning the other viewers not watching TSCC and would rather watch Howie do it or some other reality show since the comment before mine was about the ratings.
Please stop with these crummy episodes. I know I’m in the minority, but I hated this episode. I thought season 1 was exceptional, and have only liked a couple of episodes this season. It seems every time I start to get into a series, it gets cancelled. Unfortunately, I think this is on it’s way out. What ashame!
Usually I can get into the show and not think about it as a script, but this one didn’t work for me, so I saw the dream/not-a-dream switcheroo coming right from the start. Just bad luck, I guess.
Two good things, though: (1) It’s the end of the Sarah psychology trilogy, and (2) according to the previews for next week, there’s some chance of Riley pwnage.
Too bad about this episode
Gary, in all fairness, less people watch this week than last. Most who are watching are hardcore fans. So some people are following your advice. I think that is a good thing.
Also, only hardcore fans are going to know the dif - that the show is going to take a turn for the *better.” But, why would it have to take that turn in the first place? Because, somewhere, somehow someone/thing CHANGED TSCC from the VERY successful format Terminator has enjoyed with the public for 25 years.
So TPTB should KNOW better!
Yes, we could come here and be a huge fan kiss up fest. Easy to do, But what is happening in the real world says something different. We had 18 mil to start and now have less than 4 mil.
That’s not a “recession” of fans, that’a a DEEP “depression.” So something has to be done about it - and we know it will - but until larger audience knows problem will remain.
And worse, T$ WILL be a HUGE hit - so saying it is “Terminator’s fault” doen’t fly.
I know you mean well, but the “complainers” do too. Not syaing anything when you KNOW something is drastically wrong does everyone a disservice IMO. I know you feel differently. If we were in any other situation than in danger of losing the show I’d agree with you. That may me a moot point anyway, but at least we had our say and went on record saying it.
Maybe some other network will read these things and get some straight poop on how smart, talented people feel about a show they REALLY care about. Care enough to fight ANYONE for it - including stupid moves by producers and writers sinking it!
McG said he went out and asked people what they wnated of TErminator so he could give them THAT. I bet he is a success for doing that. Terminator has a formula for success and JF is violating that with what he is doing. The “experiment” ISN’T working. He needs to KNOW that to disabuse himself of any future musings, should he relax and get overly confident with what is kosher and what is not.
Look at the numbers. People DO have their limits on what IS acceptable. The PEOPLE *are* speaking on this issue.
We don’t need to quiet people’s voices. We need to listen very carefully at what is being said. Because there IS a lot of good being said, even from those that are emotional and distraught about what is going on - and why they think that is. We don’t HAVE a multi-million dollar stake in this, but we ARE invested in it. So we do feel we have the right to speak our mind.
And the main reason is this is NOT a sci fi action adventure show about Terminators!
Shutting us up about that won’t change anything just like what ever we say about these eps won’t change what we see this season. But it will do is let TPTB - especially JF since he’s the guy in charge - know that “We’re Mad as hell, and we aren’t gonna TAKE it anymore!”
Can you get to that, bro?
Not saying the show isn’t good. Law & Order is good. But that ain’t Terminator. We KNOW the dif. They keep treating us like we don’t - wo we’re suppose to accept and go for anything they roll out. Sorry, it don’t work that way.
And no matter what we say here, the actions of the public ARE speaking louder than words.
Maybe THAT issue needs to be addressed, since we have a stake in this as fans?
I didn’t like the other Sarah episodes but thought this was a pretty good one, glad the shows going back to “normal” though.
matt hancock, they keep bringing up the poor ratings of TSCC because it is very popular with the Internet crowd. They were wrong before about TSCC getting the back nine order, but I cannot see how they can be wrong this time around. The ratings are very, very bad.
This wasn’t the time for Josh Friedman to experiment with the storyline, especially over so many episodes. It sounds like he’s mostly to blame for the ratings nosedive by pushing the crazy Sarah and filler episodes.
Sorry to dis Josh again, but the ratings don’t lie.
Robert,
Watching the promo for next week was almost like TGIR (”Thank God It’s Riley!”). At least we’re starting to move an inch or two in the plot besides a tiny bit here and there and in fits and starts.
And Gary, I would have thought parts of the Sarah Unglued arc were quite good to see, and as always, Lena was excellent if not for the fact that this had been the WORST possible time to introduce these mind twisting episodes. If the ratings were stronger to allow these slow downs into Never Never Land then I wouldn’t be fretting as much.
Hopefully, Riley and soon Jesse can be singing with the choirs of angels. I don’t usually hope for the death of characters, but this time I’ll be morbidly happy.
And if Sarah is siding with Jesse at some point this season… then she’s going to become Enemy #1 too! LOL! She’ll be on my Sh#t List.
Some “family” The Connors have turned out to be.
Coach, of course I get that. Whoever reads this blog from the show has already heard the fans’ concerns about the episodes aired so far. And those episodes are done.
Everybody had their say now (again & again). How much more is needed? Now it just sounds like habitual whining. Nobody from the other networks who would make programming decisions will be reading this blog. Anything is possible but that’s extremely unlikely.
Josh said he went ahead with the Sarah triptych. Those episodes have aired now. Why start pushing the notion the fans are going to hate the remaining episodes also? How is that beneficial to anyone involved with the show or the fans still watching? Nobody has even seen the episodes yet.
Everyone has made their points. Nobody was silenced. Let’s see what the remaining episodes are like instead of jumping to the conclusion people won’t like them?
The viewer ratings are down, but the show is not canceled until FOX says it is. Let’s see how the remaining six episodes go.
I’m with Gary.
Criticizing is moot at this point and only serves to turn off potential viewers and fans alike who happen to stumble upon this blog.
All the remaining eps have been shot and we’re just waiting for them to air. Let them air. Let us all watch before we come to any conclusions and throw around things about season three and what needs to be done to make it better/raise ratings, etc. Patience. There are 6 more episodes left. Let’s enjoy it, back it up, and hope for the best.
If I were to watch and episode of Season 1 and then watch this episode, I wouldn’t even believe it were the same show.
I adore TSCC, but this was the worst show of the series’ run.
This show has so much potential and just beg the writer’s to take it back to what it was, the show I would sacrifice all of my plans for rush home every Friday night.
Let’s just erase the last season and a half and take it back to the action-packed show it used to be.
Kudos and respect to the actors though, they were phenomenal as always. I hate to think what’s going through their minds every time they pick up their newest script…
This episode was wasted time. They haven’t shown us anything about Sarah’s psyche that we hadn’t already noticed by just watching her in every other episode. The two big points in this episode seemed to be her being scared and paranoid; anyone would be in her situation. Devoting three episodes to getting inside her head shows us nothing new.
It’d also be nice if we started seeing Cameron displaying more of a reason for being there. They could have sent any model back to protect him, it’s unlikely they’d only gotten their hands on one. It seems like she’s working her way up to luring John into being with her - but why? Did future-John send her back specifically because he knew his younger self would like her? Is there a still a Skynet subroutine at work telling her to distract him? For fans (the few of us there are!) who don’t like the John/Cameron pairing, a decent explanation for it may stop us from tuning out eventually.
I am a die hard fan . . . just watched this episode . . . all I can say is that this show is traveling the same path as the X-Files, and that is pretty bad.
I agree with all these last three posts.
But driving show ratings down with slow, boring eps isn’t the way to try to build ratings, is it? That’s not “our fault” for pointing this out, is it? Nor, is anyone saying the the future eps will be as bad.
But when was the last time you enjoyed a movie that had 4 out of five seats empty, and people were leaving the theater? Doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.
I’m glad the sleep clinic was a dream because Sarah Connor would never put herself on the grid like that. So until it was revealed as a dream I was a little ticked that she would put herself in a medical facility.
Plus this was not the episode to help save the ratings.
Hey, I agree with some of that too, Coach. They would be difficult episodes for new fans just joining in. All of that has been said already and anyone from the show who receives a summary of the postings has seen it too. Including Josh.
I’d have to think James Middleton and John Wirth receive summaries also. Along with some of the writers. Probably Toni, she’s co-executive producer and writer.
good frigin riddance to “Sara Conner: Psycho Babble 101″
sheesh,
honestly, and to be brutally hobest, the latest few shows almost made me sleep….
PS -
while i vent,
leave the transgender debate to MTV (pretend to be the)Real World.
This episode wears very well and I’ve become very taken with coyote metaphor, the idea that Sarah, John and Derek are these feral creatures living among us but apart from us, operating liminal space between civilization and chaos, dark and light, life and death. Lovely.
I agree with Destiny’s comment. This episode was nothing more than “wasted time”. It did nothing to add to the general scope and focus of the show. All this “Sarah is kinda wacko” stuff has already been explored and micro-examined. Most fans watch the show because they love the “Terminator” mythology and universe.
Anything that is a subconscious “dream” episode is a waste of time. the excuse that “It was only a dream” has been done too many times before. It is just a cop-out for when the writers and producers realize that a concept is not working. Let me give you examples (SPOILER WARNING if you haven’t yet seen these films):
If any of you remember the TV show “Dallas”, an entire SEASON was explained away as being nothing more than Vitoria Principal’s dream.
The movie “Devil’s Advocate” with Keanu Reeves, was nothing more than a dream that Keanu had while still in the courtroom down South.
The movie “Next” with Nicholas Cage was nothing more than a dream he had while sleeping with Jessica Biel.
To summarize my rant. A “Dream” episode is not good drama, but just a cop-out.
I can’t believe how many people on here say how much they loved this episode. I’m very surprised. This is the first time i’ve visited this blog, so I don’t know a lot about the writer’s motives…just what i’ve read on this blog. but…he wanted to delve into sarah’s psyche?? and explore her guilt over killing?? huh?? what??? this is Sarah Conner…SARAH CONNER!! does anyone even remember T2??? “you’re dead already you know I believe it everybody dies” etc etc etc…
all I know is that if this exploration of Sarah’s mental state is the reason we don’t get a season 3, I have to think the guy in charge just didn’t want one…wouldn’t you think once he saw the ratings going down he would stop?? I don’t get it and it sucks because it used to be a good show…pity.
Hey!
And don’t forget the greatest coyote of all!
Wyle E. Coyote… Super Genius!
So… are the Connors The Road Runner or Wyle E. in this show, so far?
Sometimes I think somebody is using the ACME Tactical Training Manual in their fight against Skynet.
I’m just sayin’!
And, oh my God! I just watched my DVR recording of this Friday’s Dollhouse…
Jesus H. Christ! What did I just watch? Did Joss Whedon create this show? Really?!! The guy who gave us quirky, fun, and adventurous “Firefly,” “Serenity,” and “Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog?!!”
Tell me this is all just a bad joke! I stopped it half-way through and watched another episode of “Firefly” on Blu-ray to cleanse my suffering pallet. It was like watching “Alias” written and acted by FIFTH GRADERS!!
Yup, I think Fox put this duo on Fridays to die.
Dan,
LOL to the TGIR!!!!! Maybe it was a subplot to get us to like seeing Riley again. I do believe from the comments of the cast, crew and writers that were going to pick up the pace soon and looking forward to it…
The big question is: Is everyone going to watch next week? Sure you are. Toni Graphia (who gave us Allison from Palmdale and Self Made Man) and Daniel Thomsen (Vick’s Chip and Mr Ferguson is Ill Today) are the writers and that’s all to the good.
Has anyone seen a plot summary for the last two episodes? If you have please let me know. Thanks.
I Loved this episode!
well ’supposedly’ as that’s what I understood from the episode lol
Such psychological twists was a good mix into this series. There needs to be a combination of action, love, mystery and so on in great shows and the writers are doing it!
Im just sad the John Conner scenes weren’t real
I loved the candy machine scene and how he was being nice to Cameron and caring for his mom. He was getting back to normal
also loved his pancakes scene “it’s not.. food” haha
but i for sure think John has something up his sleeves and he’s not being as stupid as we think he his
he’s planning something…
Well, with a name like “Born To Run” for the finale I can only imagine that Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band make a sudden appearance, wave magic wands, and make Fox or another network give this show another chance (granted that EVERYBODY has learned their lessons from Season 2) and make it seem like most of this season never happened, and will never… ever happen again.
Other than that… I have no idea what’s going to occur.
All of you are right! I agree with everyone, you all have truth in your statements; unfortunately not the time for such a beautifully written episode. This episode is what I would call ” a fan episode ” as a terminator fan myself . We love this show we want all the info we can get on it! What the characters are thinking, what it all means… how it connects. But those viewers like my husband who are in it for the entertainment ( the fights, blood, exploting cars, machines, etc ) feel the show is not for them anymore. It saddens me because I appreciate good writing and a complete story arc. I agree with Gary, I have all the faith in the world for this show, I know these next episodes are going to be great. I am really looking forward to what is yet to come…
AD,
What? Please tell me! I’d really like to know his plan. His grand “I’m gonna get my head out of my ass and start acting normal again” plan?
I’m begging you, down on my knees, do you know what it is??
Other than that… I have no idea what’s going to occur.
Sarah is going to wake from a dream, tap her ruby red shoes together and flying monkeys will rule the world.
I understand this might be off the subject at hand but has anyone noticed the tension between derek and sara? Is he worried for her or the mission? What does he think of her? His actions are very different when it comes to her…. Am I seen things?
Dan,
I totally agree with you on the Dollhouse issue… I loved Firefly, and Serenity both… I don’t get it either….
I’ve been a dissenter from Dan.
but i have to say, Dan was right weeks ago.
the last few episodes have really let me down.
ENOUGH ALREADY with the “Sara ‘coo cooo’ crap”
noone new could join in and watch this bullshi+.
how coud they follow it???
i mean think about it. the “TITLE CHARACTER” spent half the time in bed and the other half in a van blindfolded.
that is whaksed.
someone should have listened to the suits. season 3 might be a reality.
DH,
The title of the next to last episode ( Adam Raised a Cain) also appears to have a Springsteen connection. And I hope the upcoming two part episode (Today is the Day) has more of a connection to Dope than to Lincoln Brewster.
noone new could join in and watch this bullshi+.
I had been telling a few friends to stop by and check this show out for a while, how
good it is and the writing, so when do they decide to take me up on this??? Exactly when the three dots coo cooo Sarah thing takes hold. I have constantly felt the need to explain and defend the show and my endorsement to them of the show. The looks get aren’t encouraging.
Robert, neither are the calls, texts and emails!
(and I made sure I targeted the target demo for TSCC). According to Joe Girard’s “Law of 250″ everyone knows at least 250 people. So 14 times 250 = 3500 people. But instead of numbers geting stornger for our efforts they are eroding; bc some fans are jumping ship - Jameron or no.
That says a LOT to me, and I can’t believe JF didn’t forsee this when he wrote, shot, EP’s and aired these shows. He HAD to know the result. Even more Fox knew the result and warned him against this, which he ignored and now we are in a fine kettle of fish!
Okay, I hate it. Please remember to be respectful for everyone! Fair enough, but when we respect your disordered disappointing work no mater what, have you ever showed the least respect for our opinions? Our expectations? Our worries about the future of this show? (If it still have one.)
…exploration of Sarah Connor’s mental journey. Why this mental thing have to start in the first place? Because this show named Sarah Connor Chronicles? I’m afraid when Sarah’s dreams and illusions goes on and on, over 40 minutes in every episode, this show is better be called Sarah Connor psychiatrical Analysis. More pertinent, isn’t it?
I especially angry about the disconnection between the promote video and the real show. You are really very generous to using Cameron as a promotion tool, to attract people’s attention to this show; you are really good at making empty promises about how exiting the next episode will be, but all we got in return is another full display of Sarah’s monologue for 40’, with Cameron showing up only 20” as piece of furniture or a sexy doll. Like in this one, an underwear strike in front of John? What does that suppose to mean? Sarah hates it in her subconscious but the audiences love it?
Well, if you are so confident about this Sarah’s mental journey thing, why not promote with Lena instead of Summer? You know people just want to see more Cameron on this show and you never stop using that in the promotion, but you are just not going to give them more than 20”, I call that deception.
…is the final chapter of the series’ exploration of Sarah Connor’s mental journey. You now think to call a stop to it, and you are so fast to show a lot of Cameron in action in E17’s preview, but with 3 episode already been waste like that, and only 6 remains, I wonder what kind of tedious ending we will wrapped with.
In an alternate TSCC reality:
Riley’s backed up against the shelves in the shed out in back of the house. Cameron is inching ever closer, a cold, hard glint in her eyes.
Cameron: You can’t be John’s girlfriend, you’re a threat.
Riley [bug eyed]: You’re freaking me out.
Cameron: You can’t stay here anymore, but I can’t let you leave.
Riley [truly freaked]: What are you going to do to me?
Cameron [with a tinge of menace in her voice]: An experiment I always wanted to try.
Riley looks like she’s going to bolt (out of her skin if she has to), but there’s nowhere to turn. Cameron reaches her hand up in a very threatening manner. Riley looks like she’s going to scream in terror, when Cameron clamps her left hand between Riley’s neck and shoulder blade, and squeezes. Riley’s eyes immediately roll back in her head and she collapses in a heap.
Cameron [cocking her head slightly and looking slightly surprised and a bit proud of herself]: Huh. All be damned. It worked. [looking down at Riley in triumph] Live long and prosper, bitch!
Cameron then drags Riley (bumping her head once on the door frame, for good measure) into the living room and ties her to a chair, and gags her, to await John and Sarah’s wrath.
———–
Just joking!
Hey Dan,
“Cameron [cocking her head slightly ” Done my share of that the last 4 ep’s
Robert,
You need to add that Scooby-Doo query/growl: “Eerrrrrrr??” to the head cock. It works better that way.
Oh, and Robert… Cameron never did give John a “tight” present for his birthday. Well, a bound and gagged Riley, willing to spill her heart out to everyone, might be just the trick.
‘It’d be a much bigger deal if SC had to kill a human in order to protect Cameron, her son’t protector. Would she do it? Hesitate? Be conflicted after, if she did?-Chris “Coach K” Kincey’
I would LOVE to see that. It would be very interesting to see how that would play out. I mean the only reason Sarah tries to help Cameron in S1 when they save Derek is because John tries to run towards Cameron. I hope we get to see that one day.
I was reading my TV grid in the newspaper and the TV writer said TSCC was not doing that hot in the ratings (tell us something we don’t know) but that FOX never does good on Friday nights and needs patience with this show. You hear that FOX. Mistakes have been made, we get it just please hang in there for one more season. Ride the Terminator movie wave! Please.
I don’t know what to tell you. Ratings dropped for the live count…but a number of people have rewatched the ep so I don’t know how DVR and online viewers has been adding up.
And from the looks of it this show is not only popular overseas but online as well.
FYI you tube has tons of Terminator Cameron in Lingerie video’s posted.
I just hope we get a S3…and to be honest I’d want it on another network if that were possible. I’d like to take a page from Charlie Dixon’s book and say ‘FOX freaks me the hell out.’
But I’d like a S3.
However if FOX would keep TSCC around for S3 I would be impressed. It would mean they stick by there shows.
Or I’d love for another network to step up…as long as we get a S3.
A great episode. Funny, tense, and the interplay between the two worlds - dream and reality - was very clever. And yes, Sarah IS a badass - this ep proved it definitively. I can’t wait to see her face off against Weaver.
I watch this show every week like it’s my Soap Opera. Every week I’m like, “I can’t stay out! I gots to get home and watch my stories!” I love this show, and I’m glad I can watch it on the web too. What hit me the most though is how do the creators expect our heroes to fight Shirley Manson? She’s far too powerful. I can’t figure out how that battle is going to eventually go down. I don’t even think the T-1000 killed as viciously and with as much efficiency as she kills. Either way, I love the characters. Damn fine acting. I CAN NOT WAIT TILL NEXT WEEK!!
Well, Zack just bid a fond farewell on the Wiki, so does that mean they know something we don’t know yet?
I just pray that people’s interests will be piqued with hopefully the return of the central plot come this Friday.
And that somebody will see that Season 3 could be a golden opportunity for a reboot and a real kick in the pants to the series.
They really need more action and suspense, more drama, more humor, more hope, more upbeat, more drive, and MORE CAMERON.
Facts are facts.
And just call the show…
TERMINATOR
And really mean it.
Dan, you’re absolutely right!
I fully agree!
I remember reading that sweeps month got moved this year to March? Or bumped…something along those lines. If that’s true then we aren’t in sweeps period yet! Oh must write Verizon and Dodge Ram.
Also if WB owns TSCC and not FOX, then if the show is dropped the WB could shop it around. Please!
I mean lets face it S2 had mistake made on both sides (family feel gone, riley), if they work at it and say they’ll fix it then give them a S3. Like someone said the 3 dots are TSCC getting a S3!! LOL!!!
Back to this ep:
I had the feeling that it was all a dream at the clinic.
LOL When the doctor started quoting Cameron oh yeah.
Also when John was shot…call me crazy but I expected a bullet proof vest on the boy.
I wish we would have had some more Jameron moments. But I loved that Cameron puts vanilla in the pancakes. I do the same thing.
Also the C-section thing threw me for a loop? Did Sarah lie to Casy?
Anyone else think Nurse Hobson was totally hot?
A Fox exec said that he and the other higher ups know that Fox has a bad rep with being impatient but apparently this time they really are going the full boat and won’t be making any decisions until all is said and done. At least that’s what was said.
Way I see it now is that though some of us did enjoy the psychological exploration, me included, but I also agree that T:SCC needs to step up the violence and fast. I know the episodes have all been filmed which has left me wondering. How do the budgets work in Hollywood? I have no clue myself but if JF was holding back these past three then these last ones should be stock full of gunfights, explosions, and of course: terminators.
If the next episode is full of action then Fox should be able to air a very appealing and very accurate promo during Thursday night’s American Idol. I know everyone gets down about T:SCC being on Fridays but really that American Idol promo can make a dif.
As for Mondays T:SCC was getting murdered by Dancing With the Stars and other shows of that caliber. So I don’t think staying in that timeslot, regardless of moving House to Mondays, would help much. But that’s still speculation.
Last fall many fans were discussing how a move to Wed. and partnered up with Bones may work better. I too think that would have been the better marketing solution but too late now. If we do get at a S3 hopefully Fox will take another look at the scheduling.
Last thing. I go to a search engine and type in Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles and when the hits pop up they’re mostly all about how T:SCC is going to get cancelled and there’s no chance for a S3. I mean wtf? Not even halfway through these back nine and people are already predicting the show will fail miserably. I visited one website that had a table showing Fox tv shows. It listed the some that were cancelled and the others whose final season was on (Prison Break for example) and then it predicted which show was likely to be renewed and which wasn’t. T:SCC wasn’t the worse on the list, Till Death was, but they got picked up because of some sweet deal Sony made with Fox.
I love free speech but all this assumption that T:SCC is going to fail really irks me. Wish we could send Cameron after them…
Guys I have started a petition to get TSCC renewed for season 3. Please sign it and spread the word. Petition can be found here http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TSCC . I started a thread over on the wiki about the petition so if you have any further suggestions on spreading the word on the petition or just the show in general please head over and let me know. http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread/2481527/Petition+for+Season+3+*spread+the+word*
Hi all!
i’ve just seen last episode Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep, i found it good, and these are the reasons:
- not only psychological struggle, but also physical tension, with a brutal “kidnapping”
- a good plot, with the false clinic’s dream (i understand so…) and the crude reality of Sarah’s captivity
- few Cameron and John moments, but significative and funny (but…are they a dream too?). Finally our two heroes express theirself with some expression or moves (cameron’s smile or goin’ around home in lingerie),
John changin’ his last episodes’ tone of insofference and refuse against her and tellin’ something aboutn his thought. A bit of more interaction…not bad!
But how much time will have to pass before he start to talk seriously with Cameron about her unknown and probably tragic mission ? and about what she feel about him and others?
John…wake up !!!
- Finally, the two episode’s villain were convincing characters. Doctor was scary and “metallic” as she had to be, man was “sadistic” and depravate.
Final shot at John and Sarah is a good turning point. Other episodes missed a good one, and were a bit tedious.
-Monolgue T2 styile’ has come back….very good, not because Sarah Connor HAVE to tell something at every episode’s starting, but because it introduces us in the dark night of sarah connor’s mind. Good !
Waitin for next friday and other episodes!
i think Fox and WB are watin tscc’s end before givin’ any information.
I understand this, because if we know that 3rd series is under development, we will watch these last episodes with different and less interested eyes.
I repeat, don’t care about ratings! other programs have 1 ml wievers more than tscc…it’s a very little gap. And then, i believe that, fixing storyline’s subplots with these episodes, Season 3 could focus on Cameron’s mission, John struggle’s and Sarah’s death count. And about human and machine! I hope so.
I’m afraid it will only take a miracle to have a SEASON 3 after this one ends. I don’t have too many hopes. If we do though, I hope it will be way better than Season 2 was so far (ofc, S2 was still good!)!
Sign the petition for a third season!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TSCC
Get EVERYONE involved!
the show name should be terminator the conner chronicles its is as much johns show as it is about sarah anyone think this too?
I will sign it, but pettitions are useless. They don’t mean anything.
Matt,
No subtitle is necessary. Just TERMINATOR. It allows you to focus on Cameron, John, and Sarah and their struggles.
It was a mistake to call it The Sarah Connor Chronicles because it focused the emphasis too much on one character.
However, that character was found to be less popular than Cameron due to Summer Glau’s wonderful performance.
We saw far less of her than we would have liked, and the fans howled for more, more, more.
One of the HIGH POINTS of James Cameron’s story was that it equally strengthened Sarah, John, and Arnold. They were given equal opportunities to shine in their own unique ways without any of them being weakened to the point of ineffectualness and irrelevance, which is what happened for most of Season 2.
By words and actions Josh pushed Sarah above all others, whether we wanted it… or not. That may have led to having throw-away extras getting more and better screen time than John or Cameron or even Derek for most of the season. Take, for instance, Lauren. John was such a weak character that we wanted HER to take over rather than John! That tells you A LOT right there!
These were big mistakes and story faux pas. Say it like it is. Own up. MISTAKES.
Own up to them, and don’t make them next time.
I hope there is a next time. I really, really do.
I will give you a second chance. Make us proud.
Lena is an awesome actress! The episode would have been flat without her subtle shades of character. I have always wanted to get inside Sarah Connor’s head, so I loved it. People who want answers and plot movement will just have to wait. Thank you for excellent writing.
This episode was not good. Don’t get me wrong, I think the others in this set were awesome. I like the season to date. It’s just my opinion that when you start playing around with what is real, and what is a dream, it’s completely off-putting.
Going to the sleep lab that was perverted by skylab was too improbable. Winston surviving his initial confrontation with Sarah not only lacked foreshadowing justification but it’s too incongruous with the funeral episode, which I liked better for him to be deceased and sarah dealing with those consequences…
DAN, In regards to your comment about my post,
John’s Plan
I was rewatching the first season and does anyone remember when Cameron first “tricked” John into talking to her in the very first episode. Then when he found out she was a robot she said to him at the gas station something along these lines,” u apologized to me about lying about your father, so I should apologize to you”
then John goes,”it’s not your fault. i get. i should have realized something was up. Why would a hot girl talk to the weird new guy. if i had just thought about it i would have picked up something wasn’t right’
so remember how Riley just randomly came up to him and basically forced him to be her friend and hang out. I think he knew she was up to something and so as they say “keep your friends close, and your enemies closer”…..
rewatch the first episode and the episode where he meets Riley
think about it,…
Also,
I think that the ratings at this point can’t really increase just because new watchers could not understand anything unless they watched the first season and the beginning of the second season. A lot has happened and characters have developed. They need to watch it all to connect better with the characters and plot lines.
Just a though.
Sometimes the fans are hilarious and ridiculous at the same time. Some act like the Terminator franchise is their own, and nobody should touch it with a new project unless they’re exactly like the T1 and T2 movies. Which would be lame by the way.
Dan, the season is not over yet. Six more episodes to go. By the end of episode six, you may love the series so much you’ll be camped out at the Warner Brothers entrance gate day & night, trying to convince them to let it continue into another season.
At the same time, you people who have been most critical of this series could very well be MUCH more upset at T4. I already know some die hard T movie fans who think T4 is looking REALLY stupid as they read about it. Hold on to your hats.
Going from HK’s leaping out of the pond in the last Ep, I thought we were going to roll from there. I know Sarah finding the steel place was somewhat of a follow up to that, but maybe some fill in on what Derrick was doing with that info would have helped give some direction. I love this show and try not to bad mouth it, when I do it’s tongue in cheek daggers, but the waiting’s gotta stop, we get waiting.
Dan,
In the realm of Cartoons, I say let’s blow up some Spacely Space Sprockets or Cogswell Cogs!!!!!!
Dan, I forgot to mention. You probably know by now I live in LA. It doesn’t take me long at all to drive over to the Warner Bros lots. I’ll swing by there once a week to drop off food & water to help you continue your campaign for the Sarah Connor Chronicles. I won’t let you down. I’ll bring a sun umbrella too. The summers here get hot!
I can’t believe the total lack of support from so many of the supposed “fans” of this show. It is very disheartening.
Do you realize that the series can’t just be a straight hour of car chases and action sequences every week? Who would even want to watch that? What a dull, dumbed-down series that would be.
Some of us true fans want a well-rounded, intelligent show with both psychological and physical drama, and TSCC delivers both. The show keeps me on the edge of my seat at all times, and I find it extremely well written and acted.
Oh, and by the way, people - it’s called “The Sarah Connor Chronicles”, not “The Cameron Chronicles”. Those who are just watching the show for Summer Glau should stop trashing TSCC just because she’s not in every single scene. It’s getting extremely tiresome hearing everyone complain about how there’s not enough Summer/Cameron. She is NOT the main character, and while the part is well played by Summer, the character is by no means the biggest highlight of this great show.
If you hate the series so much, I have a simple solution. Stop watching.
I liked this episode a lot. Very psychological. Way to mess with everyone’s heads.
That said, I’m torn. I often worry that with all the experimentation and innovation in storytelling, TSCC is just “too smart” for the average TV viewer, and that it might get cancelled for this reason. Sort of like how “Moby Dick” was actually very poorly received during Melville’s lifetime, not in spite of, but *because* it was such a penetrating and multifaceted work of literature–Melville’s readers were mainly looking for pointless travel adventure literature, not epic allegorical explorations of the human condition.
Anyway, seeing how you folks seem to like dressing (or should I say undressing?) Cameron up, I have a request for Season 3, if there is one: have her wear something goth. Just once. I’ve been thinking that should happen ever since John sarcastically called Cameron “totally goth” in “What He Beheld”.
It would be hilarious. And you might be able to pick up, say, everyone who watches NCIS just for Abby, at least for one episode.
Also, you guys should try to cast Emma Lahana for an episode. Ever since she was on Power Rangers, she’s had like a million underground fans who would tune in to an episode of pretty much any show just because she’s in it.
Oh, and I hope you guys check up on Lauren from “Alpine Fields” next season. She’s a cool character cause she’s kind of like a mini-Sarah now, protecting her baby sister.
AD,
John has shown by his actions and in-actions and snarkiness and meanness that he was TOTALLY duped AGAIN by Riley. He has done some terribly stupid things that got people killed. He has not been choked up about that. He didn’t seem choked up that he almost got Sarah and Derek, and Cameron and Riley and even HIMSELF killed by Cromartie multiple times either.
That doesn’t look like much of a plan to me. That looks like moronitudeness, and not PTSD talking. His character was weakened and it didn’t help things one bit.
—
Robert,
How about blowing up Fred Flintstone’s quarry where he works? Kazoo could zap it with his magic powers. He always thought Fred was a “dumb dumb” anyway.
—
Bill,
Yup, the evil nurse was SMOKIN’ hot! That would be really cool if she comes back in a different capacity than just a basic nurse (since Sarah did say she was investigating a sleep clinic in real life and not just her dream) as a super advanced Terminator (maybe a TX?) later on. She was great at the end of this episode with her bad self, her nurse-clad naughtiness, and her brunette sexy/hotness! A deadly and lovely combo! I’m getting a little steamed up as I type this. Er…
SCHAAAWING!!!! Party on, Wayne! Party on, Garth!
Nurse Hobson was the best baddie Terminator yet! Julie Ann Emery really NAILED IT. Big Kudos!
Bring her back and Lauren too for Season 3!
Gary,
I will appreciate all your kindness as I waste away on the hot and dry WB lot to get a brand new, all fresh and sparkly and “shiny” Terminator show back on the air!
LOL!
Dan,
Well I guess we’ll just have to see who’s right or wrong at the end of the season
I signed the petition. Did you?
Ok I loved the episode. Im sick and tired of this coach K and everyone else who bashes the show. Its called “Sarah Connor Chronicles” about Sarah the rest are just supporting charecters. All people do here is complain and complain and to be honest I bet if they did the stuff you wanted them to do you would still complain.
Give it a break, this is a great show, great writing, and great twists. Keep it up producers because your TRUE fans understand about this show and won’t just sit and complain and nitpick about everything.
This could REALLY get some ratings!
Julie Ann Emery returns (as a semi-evil and very clever TX, high up in the Skynet ranks, who also admires Future John as a worthy adversary) and Cameron then “fight” over who will win John’s notice and affections! Lots of kick butt action and twists and turns occurs in between. Being as Julie is a TX, she can morph identities (though her base design and mental template is female) as well as having powerful weaponry at her disposal. Cameron has to fight her with smarts and quick thinking because brawn just won’t cut it since the TX is so advanced and deadly.
Let the battle for John Connor… begin! A REAL psychological battle of wills. A REAL and very interesting triangle. Forget “ditsy” Riley… this has some true potential to bring out the evolutionary and revolutionary aspects of James Cameron’s AI story… a story of hope overcoming despair.
Here’s the twist… the TX, towards the end (and you can see a glimmer of it in her actions throughout), realizes that what she was doing was all wrong and turns fully against Skynet and its nefarious plot. She finds she has a capacity for good and a capacity for a kind of love in her as well (as do all Terminators… they just have to start to question, look hard, look deep, and discover it dwelling inside themselves).
They can be more than just the sum of their root programming, more than just “metal.” They can strip off the shackles that bind them. Some Tin-Men & Tin-Women can find their hearts, can find some common ground and common purpose with mankind.
And Cameron, during all this, realizes that her love for John is genuine and not a ruse after all. She didn’t try hard to gain John’s trust for nothing… she did it because she cares for him and is worthy of being loved in return.
An eye opening turn of events.
Just another random musing.
Kinda mad about the episode…this isnt Lost guys… all the deep meaningful john cameron stuff that happened is now obsolete… including her walking through in a bra and panties…Why waste that kind of stuff on an episode where it was just a dream?
Personally i think it would have been better, and still made sense if they were both real, the hospital thing happening after the kidnapping, and cameron stepping in before they got shot. That could have kept all things relevant as well as going into her psyche
Loved Johns reaction when she walks through, just wish it was completely irrrelevant now.
this ep was really remarkable. Lena was amazing and seeing how both her mind works as well as the extent she will go to keep to her “mission” was really amazing to see.
Excellent!
Evan,
If someone comes along claiming to follow in the footsteps of Ali, and when you see him fight he is plodding, deliberate, stalking, defensive, hunkering down and looking for an opening to throw big left hooks you’d say “hey! that’s Joe Frazier, not Ali!” Wouldn’t you?
Maybe you just didn’t read what I said here, or on the TSCC Fox wiki. I think I’ve been very clear; although there are those out there who just “tune out” and write off anything that anyone says against this show, and the easiest - and laziest - way to do that is to over generalize the critiques that are made.
Yes, I DO know the difference between a TV Show and movie. I Directed an award winning TV Show for 6 years.
My cmplaints are basically that
1. TSCC does not follow Terminator continuity - bc JF doens’t feel the NEED to, so although it IS well written, something gets LOST in the translation. This inattention to detail I think is a sacred trust. Terminator is one of the most SUCCESSFUL entertainment brands of all time, so why would you “tinker” with that - at least unitl you yourself have proven YOU can succeed WITH it?
and
2. TSCC follows T2 two years after we last see Linda Hamiton’s masterful performance - which became the #8 all time ass kickers AS Sarah Conners. So it leads one (me, other fans) to believe we are going to see her in the years before JC takes and leads the war against the machines. We love her as a fan favorite hero, and the NAME of the show invokes that - like if someone COULD do another Bruce Lee movie - and be able to do it WELL. So this becomes WHAT we expect and what we want! We expect TSCC to BE a sci fi action advneture about the james Cameron Terminator story, centered around the later Sarah Conners timeline.
But JF seems to want to do something OTHER than that, which is find, except he is doing Twilight Zone in Terminator clothing, and as good as he can do that, I - and others can tell that what he is passing off as Terminator is really NOT.
It is almost as if JF doesn’t LIKE Terminator, and I am not the only person that feels this way…
He has a great brand that drew 18 million to see - just based UPON that name alone.
He has one of the most dynamic and compelling characters of all time in Sarah Conners - her story is KNOWN and she is loved and revered for 25 years.
He has one of the best STORIES written by James Cameron in Terminator, which has balance, natural drama, morals, cultural and societal undertones on many levels. So good, that THIS story is covered in instiutions of higher learning AS subject matter all around the world for decades.
He has a big, blockbuster movie featuring the hottest movie star of this era coming just months away.
He has a prime time TV show on a major network known for its innovation and ability to make long running hits (Simpsons, 24, Idol)
He introduced Cameron, as a replacement for Arnold, that is easily the most interesting sci fi character on TV since Mr. Spock - but he rarely features her; so much so he had to acknowledge this in his blog.
We fans have watched THIS show for a year, and no one of us know what the hell the plot is about! –And we KNOW the story!
We are living and dying with the show in danger of getting canned, yet we have to suffer through three hours of melodrama that wasn’t even a good TV crime drama, and less than ten minutes of actual action during that time and even less Terminators.
New viewers I asked didn’t even know WHO the Terminators were: tapping vending machine, noticing that someone is not crying, having a child sit on their lap, playing with toys.
Even Sarah has been WTF with her activities - and in all that time since the back nine how much has actually moved ANY of the plot threads forward so that a person would even CARE what happened let alone have any further interest?
You read the threads of many fans who state publicly that they love the show no matter what and it’s great etc. and privately they tell me the same things I am saying here. Yes, we ALL are going to keep watching the show and supporting it, but some of us ARE speaking up and just saying the things that othes would say but are scared it might affect what TPTB think in a negative fashion.
I understnd this, but I also feel the need to tell JF what I feel he NEEDS to know bc I feel he IS the root cause of all this mess, by being pig headed. You can’t put paisley on the Boton Celtic’s uniforms without asking anyone and not expect a backlash!
Fox sees the numbers. We are core fans watching and those numbers ARE dwindling. So the madness MUST stop. JF needs to know WHAT he is doing: being Nero burning Rome while playing a violin like no harm is going on.
There IS an implied responsibility to honor a time proven legacy given over to your care. If you don’t care then at least cop to that and give it to someone who DOES, and will do what SHOULD be done.
I could say more, but I gotta go to the WonderCon thing in SF to actually hear what JF has to say, look at his eyes, and hopefully get a wuestion asked.
I think JF has violated the integrity OF the Terminator story, by telling HIS story first rather than knowing what HE had TO work with becomng a success WITH that. He seems to act by what I see in his prodect that his ideas are more important than what fans have come to know and love for 25 years. That may be, but not in the Terminator world! He’s done nothing to earn THAT right. And 18 million going down to 4 million whows WHAT people think of THAT experiment!
I think there is a LOT that can be done - just like JF is doing within the Terminator universe. Problem is, JF doesn’t RESPECT the TErminator universe, so he becomes an emeny from within, and he IS the guy in charge! So he is sinking the ship and we are looking to him FOR the show’s survival.
We just saw this with the last President. Someone new with integrity comes in and immediately undoes all the things he can the last nitwit did, which wrecked the country and nearly caused it to collapse.
But we have T4 coming, and McG is following the RIGHT formula FOR Terminator success. We’ll see the difference between the “guenuine” and “brand X.” I don’t like thinking of TSCC that way but I now have to view it as an alt universe timeline thing, like I do T3. EVen “The Animatrix” had more continuity than TSCC *as* and “*artsie study* of various creative input on what they felt they could contribute to the baseline mythology.
Old wise syaing: “If it ain’t broke why fix it?” JF has come to TSCC with a chip on his shoulder that he needed to “fix” Terminator as if something was lacking in it. Well, the public took a vote, and JF is losing by a landslide! And we’ll get their positive vote in May…
That’s my rant. I’d like to hear if you find any faults about this without resorting to generalizations. I didn’t tell you Fox told JF not to do this and he did anyway - HE did. You are seeing the outcome and we are ALL upset about it.
If you can provide anything that would change my feeling on this with specific data I am more than willing to listen. I’d like to NOT believe JF is a raging chowderhead! I like the guy’s work. I like the show. I have no choice: I LOVE the Sarah Conners character. But I feel JF is pimping her name and the name of Terminator, and with all he has to work with, that is just not necessary.
If he did this thing “right” TSCC could be one of the most successful shows of all time. It already is one of the best written; but because of JF ’s violations, it may become extinct. Shame!
Continuing on for just another moment…
One thing this TX does as a side mission is target a young man who would be important to the resistance in the future. Being a bit of a vixen, she starts out by fooling him, getting him to trust her, then becomes romantically involved, and then kills him when she has the information she needs and he’s outlived his usefulness (kind of like Vick and his wife)… however…
Totally unlike Vick, she has a bit of remorse for what she did. The TX was starting to sort of like this man, get a little bit attached… and then she offs him like she was told to do. It troubles her, eats at her, and tickles and teases and jabs at the edges of her mind. She is starting , very slowly, to have second thoughts. She is feeling a loss. Now, why would she do that?
The TX is questioning.
man all you guys do is bitch bitch bitch
Dan, there are no TX models in this show. That was from T3 only. Please stop referring to anything in the show as a “TX.” Thanks.
This is another amazing episode. I’ve watched it again and again. There are so many layers of meaning here. This is what I love about the show. If it’s not renewed, it’s not renewed, but I’m going to enjoy every single minute of it while it’s here. Bravo, Josh! Bravo Zack! Bravo Ashley!
Just an idea… that was the only thing I really liked about T3 was the combining of the T-1000 liquid metal organisms and the endoskeleton line so they could have a variety of weapons and still morph, so that’s why I stated “TX” as a model designation.
And I really, really disliked T3 for everything else. God, what a pitiful movie!
RE: nick85 was that comment made on a project FOX board? If so I’ve been having problems posting there. I wanted to comment about all the online fans, not to mention the overseas fans but my computer doesn’t like the site for some reason. I have to try another computer. Last time I was on there, there were tons of pro TSCC comments. I do hope people are still posting about TSCC on that site.
The reason people think the show is not going to make it to S3 on FOX is because of how FOX has acted in the past with low rated shows. I would be very impressed if they stuck with it. It would show me that FOX believes in the show, knows it can ride the movie wave (and have a TSCC ad before the movie starts), knows mistakes have been made but they can be fixed and that they don’t believe the ratings system. Someone post that on the Project FOX site please.
Need a S3!!!!
What the hell are you guys doing?
One of the hottest female casts on the air in a testosterone-heavy series, and you turn in episode after episode of psych 101. Just like last week, I was half-way through the episode before I really cared what was going on.
I appreciate complex shows like Lost that take awhile to develop. That’s fine in the story-telling, but there needs to be something compelling the action. Otherwise, why do I care. An episode of Mad Men has more pace than the last several episodes of Terminator.
It’s still my favorite show on TV. I look forward to the rest of the season and will join the vigil for season 3.
Episode was great.. The momentum is picking up for one hell of a season ending. Everyone who is on the fence with the show is gonna be happy by the end. Every ep cant be the same and if they finish strong I’m sure we will get another season. There are only two other shows I watch on fox. Family Guy and House.. once in a while fringe. Every other show, in my opinion, should be canceled before TSCC.
Watched it again. Better 2nd time around, but still confusing. So Sarah’s been locked up for several episodes? The whole funeral story last week was a dream?
I agree with “What the F happened”. It is my personal opinion that most of the people responding that liked it are mostly either women or gay. These first 3 shows this year are absolutely losing my interest. Typically, when the shows begin to stray from what created the fan base typically means that the show is headed for the bottom.
I truly liked the show but if this crap continues, I will move on.
This is suppose to be a show about the end of the world not some soap opera on how her inner feelings are. God what BS.
Loved the Sarah V.O.!
It’s what makes the show so deep. Poignant.
Couldn’t really get myself into the show because I thought the whole kidnap dream sequence was inconsequential since it’s just a dream. But I LOVED THE TWIST at the end that the hospital is the dream. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
And there was some John/Cameron stuff, too. Nice.
I’ve never posted on this site before….I’ve been watching from season 1. I have not enjoyed this season at all. There is too much storywriting going on, with too many loose threads, and most of it doesn’t seem to make sense. I’m not stupid, I can keep track of all complicated movies that we watch and explain complex themes to my husband when he doesn’t get it….but this season has us asking too many questions with no answers this year. It’s quite frustrating. I wish I could say I won’t watch it after this season, but I know I’ll be back next season if there is one because I just can’t let it go. Pick a couple of directions and go with it please, because you all have picked at least 5 directions and aren’t going anywhere. Does Sarah just run around from one wild goose chase to another until THE DAY comes? Certainly we can do her character and the story more justice than that. And how in the world is John going to become the leader when his character has demonstrated such poor attributes so far? I’m not a complainer, normally - but really, step up the quality.
Ok, wow, there sure is some heated discussion about this episode! Personally - I liked it! A lot! I think that it is important to mix things up within a show/franchise and I really liked the twists and turns of these last 3 episodes. I think that to truly see, understand, and know a story it takes all types of story telling methods. You got to have a mix of the action as well as other more introspective episodes like these last couple. It takes all kinds to thoroughly tell the story - variety is a good thing!
I really think that this series of Sarah episodes were all well written, acted, produced, and put together. They actually made me sit back, think, and go over things again to make sure that I got everything and understood it. There is DEFINITELY too much TV on these days that is just dumb and to the point and requires no viewer involvement or thought - I am glad these episodes and this show in general is not like that. I think they, these episodes, really help to explain things. But, like I said, it takes all of the varieties to tell the entire story so I am really looking forward to the coming episodes which look action packed and kick @ss!
On a little bit of a side note I am really disappointed about the state of TV in America. We just have way too much crap on TV. Pointless, thoughtless, and unintelligent drivel. I am really glad that this show does NOT fall into that category. A great show that should inspire more along these very lines.
Please keep up all of the great work and lets finish the season strong! FOX - bring on season 3!!
While re-watching/thinking the episode, I noticed winston told sarah the company patched him up after sarah shot him, so he could do his job. Did weaver want to find him to kill him or patch him up??? Trying to figure what this may mean to weavers intentions. If she sent mr. walsh to kill him, and the compay winston works for patched him, makes me think it may have not been weavers company. The tone set led me to think weaver wanted the survivor dead, but the company patches him up?? Any thoughts to what this might mean, or corrections to my thinking??? Did i cross up the dreaming and the reality parts?
Hi all! Just came back from WonderCon and Richard and I went (he got a question asked of Summer and she blushed) and we tried to yap about eveything we saw and heard which you can read our de-briefing here:
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread/2484194/WonderCon+Appearance+by+Josh%2C+Summer+and+Shirley
Basically, the big news is we saw a bunch of really, really cool clips of the next 6 eps that I am sure everyone WILL like (especially critics!) and may even be what this show needs to get a S3!
Check out the thread as we try to go into as much detail as possible, so if you missed it until the video is released this is the best intel available.
To all the fans who loved last weeks episode ‘Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep’.
Tell me, what was so outstanding, so enjoyable that you would tell your friends…
“Hey, you gotta check out Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles!
In last weeks episode, is was so cool, you know what happened?”
Go ahead fans tell me what happened?
What was so must see tv about the episode “Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep”
1. The woman in a bed sleeping and sweating?
2. The woman trapped in a van talking and sweating?
3. The man in a van talking and eating sunflower seeds?
4. The terminator talking about Salvador Dalí?
5. The terminator playing The fonz and stealing a bag of chips?
6. John Connor talking about pancakes?
7. Terminator Talking about pancakes?
8. Hospital orderly mopping the floor?
9. The woman in hospital talking about some pointless nonsense I cannot remember?
10. John Connor picking his eggs…?
11. Woman driving van, yes that must be it! Woman drives van, at night!
Tune in for all of the glorious above, you will love the show!!
What was “Amazing!” please someone tell me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Coach K….you have great points and I apologize if I offended you at all. Great points
Sounds like you had an interesting time. As you describe it the last bit of the clip with John Henry and Savanah sounds like the scene we saw being taped during the break. Savanah is playing with toys on a table. Then she moves off through a doorway followed by John Henry. (Once through the door we can’t see them.) Then she screams and someone rushes in (I think it was probably Murch). Savanah runs out of the doorway. A body falls part way out of the doorway. And the camera pans to show Weaver and Ellison have entered the room and Ellison is holding Savanah.
Yeah, I read up on that. I REALLY am hoping and praying that the Back 6 are so good that they show what TSCC should have been like and COULD be like in Season 3.
It’s a shame they waited soooo long. It probably killed the show dragging things out.
I heard that was because Josh thought they’d run out of ideas too quickly.
There is a lot of stuff you could cover… a lot… that would tie into the saga.
Origins of the various Terminator models like the liquid metal organisms.
Explore, as I mentioned above, the development of a “villain” Terminator whose mission is to hunt down the Connors (and eliminate their future support), but is also developing and changing and evolving as she does so. A villain who can change her own destiny and push back against Skynet. Really delve into the meat ‘n’ potatoes of what happens with a supposedly evil Terminator assassin starts to question her directives.
What is it like in the Future the Connors are trying so desperately to avoid? Why is it hell on earth? Close quarter combat, infiltrations, family life of a main character dealing with life in the Future before they are sent back, etc. etc. Intensity!
What was it like for Allison, for an older Lauren, Derek, and even Riley in the future? Their further “adventures” have yet to be told.
The exploration of the growth of Cameron and other Terminators far beyond what you’ve attempted before. Focus on their journeys to self awareness (and no longer having lives based just on mimicry and lies, but growth as individuals) and the fact that they are becoming curious and wondrous and not just basic metal monsters. They come from a world that is basically DEAD, but then come to an Earth rich and alive and vibrant, and how it changes at least some of them and their outlook. They are experiencing things like never before and awakening. Earth was once a type of paradise in comparison to their Future, and they helped make it a desolate ruin. They are not superior… they are no better than man.
Sarah as a young girl with a mom and dad. Sarah living and training in the deserts and jungles.
Sarah’s adventures before she went off the deep end and wound up in Pescadaro and losing John.
John as a small child growing up. John as a young scamp before the events of T2 happened.
Allison as a young child.
Lauren’s journey.
John’s journey with Cameron, and her’s with John.
These are just a TINY sampling of what could be. If they’re exciting and dense and woven into what’s taking place NOW, and dealt with with some real meat and not just two minutes here and there, would really suck people in to these characters and really give them something to hold onto. Make us care for these people who are fighting and dying to make a better world… or protect the world we have NOW.
The world created by James Cameron is a rich playground… use it wisely and really make this into a narrative that he would wish he had come up with himself.
But in all this… NEVER FORGET family, love, respect, humor and the lighter side of life, wonder, curiosity, imagination, camaraderie, hope, humanity, and love.
Make it more upbeat and hopeful and less dark and dreary (has a nice counterpoint the bad and the hopelessness… right now your show is too dark and depressing for the times in which we are living) and exciting and action packed, and you’ll want to stay on the air for many seasons to come.
No wonder more writers don’t open themselves up to letting the fans have their say. Some of you guys are misusing the privilege of being able to speak to the writers. If you think of the whole series as someone’s work of art, there is no right or wrong way to do it, it’s the artist’s vision. What artist would stop and ask everyone else how to do their art? It wouldn’t be their creative vision if they did that. And who would he listen to? The ones who love it or the ones who hate it? Have a little respect for the feelings of the artist. Try putting YOUR art out there for people to criticize and see how you like it. I respect Josh for staying true to his creative vision. You are all going to eat your hats anyway after you see the last 6 episodes and I’m going to LMAO. Thanks, Josh, don’t listen to these crybabies.
Jan,
That may be well and good, but TV and now movies have become, unfortunately, commercial ventures.
No viewers, no advertisers, no show.
You can scream “artistic freedom” to the hills, but the cold, cruel fact of the matter is that Josh may not have listened carefully enough to the veteran TV writers on his staff, and even some Fox execs. who could see the writing on the wall for TSCC (pun intended) if Josh chose to pursue this course of action. Even Josh mentioned in a recent interview that “Desert Cantos” was on the list to be eliminated as a story idea on the season outline board as it was a weaker episode, but they were rushed after being canceled mid-way through the season and then given no time to regroup before they started shooting again once the announcement was made to start back up again. They had to go with something, and that something really shot them in the foot. It’s unfortunate, but now we can only look forward.
Please understand that if there isn’t a major retooling if they are given the go-ahead for a season 3, then things will only get worse for them and plug will be pulled. I think they know this now, or should.
I’m just hoping beyond hope about these next few episodes that the critics will like them and gush, the audience will get a renewed sense of enthusiasm and that the quality is very, very high and they are used as a spring board to getting a new lease on life for another season and back in full, fighting force.
Coach,
Everything you said about the show was spot on. Hopefully Fox and JF will take it to heart in S3 if there is one.
On the political front I have to disagree. The nitwit that just got elected has done more damage in one month than any president in history. The ramifications of spending like a drunken fool and gutting our defenses will haunt this nation for generations. To claim a politician from Chicago has integrity is as ficticious a statement as anything Hollywood can muster. He’s as dirty as Blago and Daley if not worse.
Snake,
Let’s not get overly political! Things are hot enough without dragging that into the discussion. People get uptight enough as it is if someone mentions a simple song to listen to! LOL!
Dan:
I’ll agree to that if everyone else will. I was just responding to an existing statement, I didn’t bring up the topic.
Jan,
McG is putting his art out there and asking people what they think of it: before, during and after.
I’m heading a TSCC fan game project and anyone - including you - is welcome to chime in. Reason? James Cameron’s epic is an international cultural icon that spans three decades now - and is STILL at the top of its game. Just the NAME alone brought 18 million to view the pilot. T4 will be a HUGE success.
No one guy gets to put himself above OUR story; a story we KNOW and LOVE so well. A story WE grew up with, that has become ingrained into our very lives. Even nearly twenty years removed Linda Hamilton’s Sarah Conners is STILL the #8 all time best ass kicker.
This is a sci fi action adventure. It already HAS a plot, and it is rich, and deep holds our attention and our interest as much now as it did when Arnold said “I’ll be back” in 1984.
That Josh got self-absorbed with his art, making the mistake that led him to believe it was alright to put pink paisley on Boston Celtic uniforms bc he was the man in charge.” When you lose 80% of your viewership the results are pretty clear on that one. Terminator is NOT a melodramatic mystery. We should have to wait a year for even SMALL clues as to whatever it is the hell he had in mind - and mianly go sideways during that time repeatedly with sideline stuff that really isn’t anything but fluff. The larger points of a woman faced with imminent danger from anywhere at any time that is all but unstoppable; the added pressure that 3 billion people may die if SHE is unable to stop this within the next ten or so years, the thought that her son may be all that stands in the way of humanity becoming extinct; these are premises that we lose in TSCC in its current format - but SHOULD be ever present.
When everything boils away, no Uncle Bob, no Cameron, no Derek, the basic of the Sarah Conners chronicles of the ear of this timeline - after T2 - is Sarah and John are alone, facing the unknown, and all THEY have IS each other. Anything else CAN fail them but they cannot fail each other or they ARE lost. That dynamic undercurrent is barely touched on here, while insignificant topics and characters ARE - that pale in importantce.
Art? Try sticking to the script! You don’t have to write a new one, James Cameron wrote the Terminator playbook 25 years ago. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! Josh’s art tried to sell us a sheep in wolve’s clothing. He gave us the best sci fi character since Mr. Spock and took it away bc he didn’t think two “alphas” could be written together - which is like saying Mr. Spock can’t be in the same scene with Kirk bc of the same reason. That’s just stupid.
No, we’re not crybabies. We are protecting somethink that we honor and won’t let anyone come in like Nero and watch Rome burn while they sit and play the violin like a dolt. JF needs an Executive Producer so he can write - bc he is a brilliant writer.
But he loses track of THAT job. And he defers to the writer that will ALWAYS want their ideas to be pushed forward. The writers says “wouldn’t it be cool if…?” The EP says “”does it fit?” Josh being both doesn’t have that safety mechanism.
He said today he didn’t listen to his writers, his other key exec staff, or the Fox execs who warned him not to do his art FIRST. I don’t mind his art. I even LIKE his art. But he has a responsiblity for TSCC as a business to do what needs to be done to solidfiy a fan base so the show is a commencial/business success. After that he can slip his artsie stuff in as he pleases - and with our good graces.
So, to be clear, his art is not more important than continuity of the main aspects of Terminator. He should have a healthy respect for fans that we know the story well and expect it to stay within the working logic of the mythology. He should understand what the tone of this story is, and the dark, slow, introverted TSCC ain’t it!
I was glad that I went to WonderCon today bc I do blame bc he IS the man in charge. So I wanted to hear what that man had to say out of his own mouth. but before I could even do that they showed clips of what the last 6 eps have to offer - and my hope was renewed.
These eps ARE what TSCC could and should be, and I think they are so good they may even vastly improve the show’s ratings!
We won’t go into WHY it took so long for this to happen: I am just thankful that it did. And I thank Josh for doing it. I came away from that event thinking Josh is not a bad guy; but he may be a guy trying to do too much. Some guys can’t be coach and GM.
He needs to get a good PR person or firm, bc he keeps saying he doesn’t know what the ratings are or what the marketing is, etc - and this is just ridiculous. No way Fox is running promo for anything OTHER than what they THOUGHT they were buying WHEN they signed on to spend multi-millions for THIS show! For him to protray that is grossly dishonest IMO. But this is one of the “flaws” about this guy: you take the bad points with the brilliant. He should put himself in a position where he deals with writing and oversight, but not the day to day survival or making calls that violate continuity or staying so far out of bounds that the show becomes a whole ‘nuther genre!
He mentioned about doing certain things so the show does not become a “soap opera.” Yet, anyone else looking at this show for the past MONTH would think it WAS! A better, more seasoned, and less emotionally attached - about his own art, ideas, and “musings” would catch that and correct it before it ever became a problem.
BSG is clearly the heavyweight champion of sci fi. TSCC has the potential of becoming the welterweight; it can, but not as long as the fighter is trying to fight, train, and manage all at the same time. It’s too much. Anyone in that postion is gonna do some strange things that make outsiders say WTF?
Josh is too close, is all. No prob with his art.
these last eps will make a pattern that will either become a legacy of the greatness we all saw in it, or the pattern that Josh can use to make S3 a major success.
I’m telling you now, before the latter happens, that I could become one of his biggest supporters, so this isn’t a band wagon thing. I want to believe in the guy. I want him to be successful. But I also wish I had been around Michael Jackson when no one had the guts to tell him “you’re a grown man - you CANNOT have children have sleepovers in YOUR bed!” History might be different and we might still be a huge star. That no one did that, he ruined his own career.
Sometimes you have to care enough to let something you love not harm itself.
I certainly love Sarah, and I think her place in history, in media, and in the hearts and minds of millions is worth defending - even from an EP that doesn’t quite “get” the “bigger picture.”
He may now; but it may be too late. but these last eps seem like some sort of redemption, and to Josh I give a heartfelt hat’s off for. He didn’t have to do this. He could have let his own ego run amuck bc who’s going to stop him.
Part of what Terminator is about - part of it’s marvel and it’s genius - is it makes you think. Well, we’re THINKING here. Yes, this is fiction, but it makes us look at what is valuable in many aspects of life. That’s part of WHY it’s valuable. It doesn’t laden us with too much syrup however, and that’s the balance I think JF has learned. Because this has been a “coming of age” for him as much as for John Conner: we are seeing both mature before our eyes.
And we are rooting for BOTH of them to suceed.
Snake, you do bring up some interesting points…
Coach:
you said “Hi all! Just came back from WonderCon and Richard and I went (he got a question asked of Summer and she blushed) ”
What was the question? I hit your link and scanned it quickly, I apologize if it is there and i missed it. If not we’d love to hear what happened.
Coach:
I just went back and read your last post about TSCC. Again I agree completely. But your point leads to another aspect that I think is important. The supporters of Josh’s artistry are missing an important point. The original Terminator was a masterpiece in the Sci-fi world. In my opinion the first Terminator movie is the best Sci-fi movie ever made. I just watched it again tonight on Encore and it was still exciting and riveting after seeing it time and again. To tamper with such a masterpiece is tantamount to drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Defiling the essence of the Terminator franchise is to disrespect the art of James Cameron. Since he is the ultimate creator of the brand his vision must take precedence. I hope professional jealousy is not the reason for JF’s derailment of the story because in the midst of his art he has achieved an amazing feat. As you said Coach, Cameron is the most compelling Sci-fi character since Spock. When you look at the Terminators that preceded Summer Glau the list is formidable. Yet Josh’s vision allowed him to create a character that stands equally on a par with those predecessors. Living up to that expectation was something I thought was impossible.
When I saw the preview for the S1 pilot I thought casting a cute little girl as a terminator was ridiculous. I gave the show virtually no chance but I tuned in because of the name Terminator. After the first hour I was hooked. Summer Glau’s performance was nothing short of stellar. She made me believe that she was the bad ass killing machine she portrayed. Josh should be out bragging like a proud father for finding, casting, and directing her instead of trying to bury her because she doesn’t play the title character. Why can’t he see the amazing job he has done in creating Cameron. Icons like this come along once in a generation. It is suicidal for him and for the show to deny this great achievment. The public truly loves a character that Josh created. It’s sadistic to now keep it from us in this manner.
Based on your description of the clips it sounds like things might be back on track. Let’s hope fox is on board with bringing us another season of the new Spock.
Jeez. Somebody’s grumpy!
I spewed forth a blog talking about the possibility of still having a season 3. Click on my name to get you there.
I do want to touch on something that Coach mentioned about Josh and the art thing. In my blog I mentioned how stressed the fans got with Josh Whedon in season 6 of Buffy with his pycho-dark storyline. In retrospect, it worked, but in real-time with the week between eps plus a hiatus or two, the fans were definitely not happy. The trick was that Joss had built up five seasons worth of good will on credit to use to take this sort of risk. Josh’s triptych might eventually pay off (if the series renews), but it was presented too soon, before the good-will credit line had been funded.
This show sucked it was the worst one so far. I want to see action not what I saw friday. Please get back to the action
Not all episodes are created equal. To produce a full season’s worth of stories has got to be a tough job. Especially for a series like TSCC with so many continuing story lines not all are going to be classics. How many episodes of the original Star Trek or X Files really can be rated outstanding? Are all Star Wars movies of equal quality? I suppose that there are times when to meet a schedule you have no choice but to shoot what’s ready whether it’s great or not so great. As a TSCC fanatic I want every episode to top the one that came before. And I’m greedy, I don’t want just a S3, I want a S4 and 5 too. So even though there are times I’d like to water board the writers until they agree to write only outstanding episodes, I understand I would go to prison if I did and not be able to watch even a bad episode.
Hang in there baby!
Another boring episode. All we need now to realy kill the series is a Riley/whine episode. And the way things are going i suspect we’re getting exactly that
Riley annoys me as hell. Not only that her character is useless (as I’ve said so many time), but at least they could’ve chosen a better girl to play her ffs!~
Man oh man, I wanna see Cameron kicking Riley’s ass, it will be worth it if so!
Where the heck did all the Action from Season 1 & begining of 2 went to…?
I hope Friedman won’t screw up. About a Season3, I have small hopes, but if they will continue this way I’ll lose my hope for good. I hope at least that the remaining episodes of Season 2 will be good.
What?? Leven is excellent in that role. We met her along with the rest of the cast here in LA, she was cool. Very friendly too. I know, everyone wants to see Cameron take it to Riley. And it looks like she’s going to.
Not liking Riley the character doesn’t mean I don’t like Leven as an actress.
And I have a hunch that Riley is “disappeared” by Jesse or someone else, and not Cameron.
Snake, I think your over thinking this. Termator was not a “masterpiece”. it was an above average sci fi movie and little more. the first hasn’t even aged too well. And the first 2 movies are full of plot holes. Their still quite enjoyable but people like you like to love praise it as the God of all movies. I enjoy the movies, as well as the series, but I don’t think of comparing them so much. Let the series be its own thing.
Kyle:
I didn’t praise it as the God of all movies, I merely stated that in my opinion it is the best in it’s class. There are many who agree with me and many who do not. However, since so many are discussing artistry here my point still stands. James Cameron is the creator of this concept and is the owner of this intellectual property. The series cannot stand on its own because it draws so heavily from the original. If JF does not pay the appropriate level of respect to the original creation then he is merely plagarising the name for his own benefit and that is dishonest. I don’t think that is necessarily what is happening but anyone who wants to use the Terminator name has to walk a fine line on how far a field they stray.
The loss of viewership supports the theory that the viewing public, who will ultimately decide the shows success, wants to stay on track with the foundation that already exists.
Just because many of us don’t write extended diatribes arguing our points of view, it doesn’t mean that we feel less strongly about the show. Most of us love the show and Josh Friedman. We see what he’s has accomplish and commend him for it. While the ratings haven’t been stellar, the accomplishments of this cast and crew are.
This show deserves a third season to build out an audience. It is one of the best programs Fox has ever aired. I hope they continue to support it.
You think The Terminator was just “above average?”
I for one am glad that the whole “crazy-Sarah” story arc is done now. My opinion of the Sarah Connor character has been on a steady decline since “Complications”. I think I may have liked it more if the episodes were not so focused on that specific plotline. If they were half Sarah-mental-expose, and half John/Cameron/Derek out doing something constructive it would have been better… such as with “Complications”. Sarah was doing her thing, while Derek and Jesse were dealing with Fischer, and John and Cameron were also out trying to find Cromartie’s body. It’s when the episodes started to get more Sarah-centric that I started to lose interest in her story. maybe it’s just overexposure, or maybe it was just the fact that I missed seeing the other characters justifying their existence in the show. I don’t know.
Anyways, I ‘m glad the show will be back on track in the final 6 episodes.
Agreed Logan.
People have to stop comparing it to the movies too.
Snake and CJ, I’m glad you see some of the things I thought were apparant: I’ve been getting flamed pretty awful on the wiki forum for presenting my views.
I thought ihis was a blog about TSCC and we are asked to comment. Some well meaning fans think this is Josh’s personal blog and we are being disrespectful to naysay anything he does - here.
I’d like to make one comment though, tha strikes at the heart of what drew ME to TSCC, once I found out a series was being made.
I too think T2 was an utter masterpiece. My only grip is he didn’t make the 3 hour movie to start, and not edit out the deleted scenes: it’s THAT good.
I’ve mentioned my feeling about Hamilton’s masterful performance in T2 as she held her own with the big bad boys with no effects other than how she had honed her body, and her acting skill. She’s one of the icons I dtill use as a reference whenever I need to draw strength…
I thought about the end of T2 and what it set up:
Sarah has John now and they are alone facing an uncertain future, but there is hope.
She is still his protector - bc you never know - but she is also the catalyst for a brighter future for him and for all. She did this with dogged determination, courage, incredible sacrifices, pain and suffering, and uncommon fucus and commitment. She won the day, and it was well deserved.
We know that JDay still happens - it HAS to for there even BE anymore story…
but we want to see what happens next; we WANT to follow her, to go with her on her journey that we know doesn’t end here. We believe in her cause, we get behind it and her and support her.
The drama is she’s all that stands between us and extinction. She knows this, and carries the weight of it as noblelyas she can muster. Even knowing 3 billion people die in one day - including most of the people she is interacting with on a daily basis, she has a moral standard to protect their lives that she believes are already gone.
I believe she has earned her stripes for this.
from the very start I thought the high school setting was not what she would have done, and felt it was a “set up” for the writer’s to have a platform to tell their story - but it didn’t quite jive with Terminator - as I thought I knew it.
Many things have happened since, which have been cool, but a bit out of synch with the main story in the spirit of what James Cameron wrote. Not to say that his is the only point of view on this but if you’re going to wirte anew pabable that is supposed to coincide with the Bible then it shouldn’t read like My Little Pony or Days Of OUr Lives it should read like Gospel, IMO.
These would not be so bad if the Executive Porducer had just made it his business to ensure everything was done FIRST to keep the show on the road. And this show had more going for it going in, and has more going for it now, that most on TV. Track reacord. Success. Brand name. Excitement. Icons, lines, characters, PLOT.
It is really a fill in the blanks proposition, but I think Josh may be overly sensitive to this and has really over complicated things when he didn’t have to. I don’t think he is an asshole any more, after being in the same room with him and hearing him speak.
i am willing to cut him a break in the same way I believe he is now cutting us fans a break and giving us what we want not what he thought best to give us. This might be fine in any other show, but for anything named Terminator it comes with a 25 year history that is known, loved, and certain things are expected. I just one fan, but when 18 million view your premiere ep and a year later less than 4 mil are then you have to conclude that a lot of people don’t agree with what is being provided with THIS vision - so for the platform to survive we need to assess what SHOULD be presented and DO that. I have confidence that is now going to be done.
I just hope that Fox - or someone - will look at these last 6 eps as testimony to what TSCC could be - and T4 has enough success for them to become greedy enough to tap into owning the franchise name on TV. That’s not a bad business proposition, so I still have some hope for the future.
And if so, I hope Josh stays with the Terminator play book, and be humble enough to become a major success in doing so. I really think the guy has just tried to hard to put “his stamp” on the franchise, and although great artistically has backfired on the business side AND on the Terminator continuity side - bc continuity wasn’t a priority to present his stamp. So he DID become self-absorbed to the point where he wound up forsaking the TErminator plot (hell, his OWN plot in some cases), Fox, and the fans.
I think he was learned some valuable lessons and no, this does not mean cutting off the creativity; it means running the play that we KNOW works, and once we run up the score - or at least are not in danger of losing the entire game - then we can improvise.
For anyone that takes offense at my saying these things, I will not defend them, bc I wouldn’t have said them if I - like Josh made a judgement call to bring out several long, slow introverted eps - didn’t think I was doing the “right” thing. Some may not care what I think, or even consider my opinion matters. But I talk to a lot of fans about these matters, and many, many agree with the majority of these points. Not to say I represent all fans - as over generalizing small points seems to be a debate tactic on these forums.
I’m just saying we all are concerned, and we all care. Probably more than we should. I think that has to do as much as with the Terminator story and history and accomplishments as it does with the current TSCC version. I don’t think the Terminator side has been fairly representeed to this point, and done so on purpose. So my rant is not against Josh as much as it is against his purposes which I think are faulty as far as this show goes (check the numbers before you bristle) and as far as Terminator goes. So I’m saying so.
And if someone tried to do Enter The Dragon TV series and did a hack job in the name of “art” then yeah, I’d be on my soapbox about THAT too!
These excerpts have been taken from “The Toa of Terminator.”
At the end of
For all the guys who say that “OMG, what a great episide” - you are Zombies. Just because it is shown under that Terminator banner does not make the best thing since sliced bread.
This episode (some must sleep…..) was silly. I dont even know what was the point. Did everything happen in reality? Or was it all fake? In whose mind? How does showing Cameron in her underwear relate to Sarah’s current predicament?
And guys, lets be serious, this is NOT the bible that we (the audience) is supposed to find the hidden meaning inside any verse. This is a TV series and NOT some kind of soul-searching. If the writer wants us to think in some way then he MUST put that in a dialog or in action. Stop this guessing game and whatever. NOT everyone has the time and access to go on the internet to read any background info on these character developments.
After all I said, please dont get me wrong. I do watch this show and just wish that this does NOT become into a soap opera and sticks to the story line and joins seamlessly into the 4th upcoming Terminator movie.
But coming back to the above said episode, I should have followed first part of the title (Some Must Sleep……) and let this one pass.
Peace.
Why don’t you just stop ranting? You have expressed your point of view repeatedly. You are telling us nothing different than what you’ve been saying for the last 3 weeks in a row.
That’s because the last 3 week in a row kinda sucked. Expect us to be very happy after Riley dies.
Chris, for me I usually chalk up being able to see these things to having spent the 90s doing the screenwriting thing. I understand your pain with drawing fire from your very cogent remarks. With all the fandoms I’ve gotten to be a part of over the decades, I’ve noted that it’s something that sometimes comes with commenting on the sartorial choices of TPTB. C’est la vie.
Keep on commenting. Even if I don’t always agree, I look forward to seeing what you have to say.
Dax, some of it relates to earlier episodes, even back into last season. Most people who have seen all past episodes understood the references, but I can see how it was a stretch for the newer viewers, whoever they might be.
I still believe contrary to TPTB that this is the TSCC. Sarah is TSCC. I’m in the minority as to which direction the show is going. I still love the show as a whole.
Loved this episode on sarahs mental journey. It was kind of freaky when I first started watching it. Answered a few questons while creating new ones, some of which were mentioned on this blog. The T2 movie is one of my favorites, BUT it was a Movie and this is TV also my favorite. I have no problem separating the two.
Proud to be a zombie:) This is just great entertainment and should be treated as such.
Anyway it’s not like all this is just being thrown in just to fill the one hour slot, this all interrelates.
Check out: Interesting read about the past eps and spoilers for the new ones.
http://io9.com/5162419/after-a-slow-patch-sarah-connors-coming-back-full-throttle?skyline=true&s=x
Coach, Dan and Snake,
Thank you for explaining……….and explaining………….and explaining.
Just kidding, guys. You each had some good points and comments. No one blames you for expressing your opinions about what you didn’t like about the eps. We just prefer that you not attack Josh and the other writers personally. There’s a lot to be said for good manners when you are trying to get your point across. No one likes to be attacked, including you.
You are jumping to conclusions when you say people left the show because they didn’t like it. There are a lot of reasons people stop watching. Many people liked Chuck which was on at the same time and chose to watch that instead even though they loved T:SCC. Many people may have not followed the switch to Friday nights. It’s date night for a lot of people and those that go out for dinner or drinks after work may not make it home in time. Not everyone has a DVR. The reasons could be numerous why the show lost viewers.
BTW, has anyone ever heard James Cameron say anything bad about the show? How can you speak for him? My guess is that he probably watches it.
Too bad Summer doesn’t read these comments. She would be surprised by how much the fans love her.
As for Spock and the whole crew of Star Trek, the things that have endeared the show to fans is the camaraderie of the crew and the humor between them. Even Spock had his emotional struggles on the show. It’s part of developing the depth of the characters. We don’t remember it for the action scenes as much.
So give the show a chance to grow. We could be in for years of enjoyment. Sometimes you have to eat your vegetables before you get dessert. It’s the vegetables that make you grow. Afterall, 24 only moves forward one hour each week and only one day each season! Wouldn’t we all like to know more about what makes Jack Bauer tick, but who has the time! The action never stops on that show.
Try to remember that adrenaline is a drug to the system and we get hooked on it. When you expect your fix once a week and you don’t get it, you get a little cranky.
Sounds like everyone is looking forward the the next 6 eps. of this season. I wish you all a great experience and lots to talk about with each other.
Remember, even Cameron is polite. And Summer might even start reading these posts if you are too. Oh, and a………sorry about the crybaby thing
Jan
The timing of the second season has been as cruel as the shaping of the first mini-season and excellent dvd was kind. The move to Friday night at a time when the series focus was Sarah wrestling with her inner demons in almost solo combat has had a chilling effect on those Friday viewers (mostly young, mostly male, mostly without dates on a Friday night at
who could have “embraced” Summer Glau and lifted the program or at least been tempted to watch it prior to Dollhouse and the delicious Dushka. Season One established a family that cared for each other. That’s when the show works best. Loose ends are important only when they involve characters we care about. Cameron and Derek have a “future-past” that reduced him to tears. Many of us want that “reveal” to have been worth the wait.
John is easier to watch when he’s Riley-free. Leven deserved better than playing Jesse the homewrecker’s pawn. Build the family and banish those who would break it.
The fear that we’ll lose the series before we get the answers we want becomes a pressure that prevents us from savoring how good this endeavor really is and the courage it took to focus it on the question of what it means to be human.
No one ever lost a ratings battle by underestimating the intelligence of the American viewing audience. I like an episode that improves with repeated viewings. All I ask is that you reference coyote the trickster, master of disguise, instead of a cliche like the dreamcatcher, modern equivalent of the Navajo blanket.
Gary,
The sad part is that I HAVE seen every single episode from previous and of-course, all the movies and STILL this “Some must sleep….” episode stumped me.
I mean, this episode was hands-down The Worst episode ever.
BTW, the link *bigfan* pasted is really good and whats more, the comments are even better
The worst episode ever. I hope there will be no such episodes any more. They only two bright moments was Cameron’s smile (like in Pilot) and John’s surprise when she walked in the house. The rest in this episode is a complete waste of time. Lena is great as usual but even she can’t make this piece of sh*t good.
Sorry. Can’t resist telling about my disappointment.
I’ve enjoyed the journey that Sarah has been on; going from the strong-willed mother who controls everything, to a woman who realizes she doesn’t have all the answers all the time. She was forced into the role of protecting her son, and did so very well by herself. But now she has help and must allow the helpers to occasionally make decisions. In the long run it will be better for John. Sarah understands that and is accepting it a little at a time. I only hope that her desire not to harm innocent people, who may only have a passing connection to Skynet, doesn’t come back to bite John. I believe Cameron shares that concern.
Would it be a fair request for Thomas Dekker’s John Connor to acknowledge that his mother is a post-atomic Luddite whose struggle is as hopeless , and misguided, as the nineteenth-century workers who tried to prevent the coming Industrial Revolution? What hope do we have of preventing the future? We can only shape it with either great subtlety or, as the Greeks suggested, accept that no one is anything but what Fate makes him (I know, I know, No fate but what we choose…but who are you going to believe? James Cameron or Sophocles and his Oedipus Rex) If Sarah must use violence to protect her son (a task better suited to the unique qualities of the finest killing machine in history who is doing laundry and providing post suicidal Riley therapy) she has a better justification than to provoke the destruction of thirty human beings whose crime was to work for a company involved in the ubiquitous MIC (military-industrial complex). You crossed a very important line in the Brothers of Nablus. Even repressed societies don’t kill drug-addicted thieves (even if they are part-time screenwriters.) I had hoped you would show us the Connors were better than the forces they were fighting like the democracies that defeated the Nazis. Otherwise, what is the point if our Nazis beat their Nazis? On the most basic level Sarah is responsible for the use of Cameron as a weapon in her misguided attempt to stop Judgment Day. Cameron’s real mission objective (unless Josh is hiding one hell of a reveal!) is to make sure the future saviour of mankind and her redeeming creator survives. Sarah is crazy to try to stop a wave one thimble at a time…but its her nature that makes her a heroic and dangerous bitch. John Connor-sob that saves mankind.
Best episode of the season. Seriously. This and Good Wound. So layered, so much going on thematically. Just incredible.
Sorry, but I found this episode boring & unnecessary.
Fantastic episode, wasn’t a fan of last weeks but this was great it really got into Sarah’s head and showed you how she views her life and the people in it. Can’t wait for next weeks it looks amazing, so does the Wondercon trailer for the last few episodes. I’ve watched it at least seven times and still get chills.
BRING ON SEASON THREE!!
http:www.bebo.com/connor-chronicles
BRING ON SEASON TWO!!
Still Waiting…and waiting, and waiting….
apparently if you bash the writer in a post………they don’t post it…Mine was never posted