What’s Jesse’s endgame? And who is Riley? First learn how it began…
Earthlings Welcome Here
The Big Fall Finale
Monday. 8PM/7PMc. FOX.
first look.
Posted on December 12th, 2008
by hadley
What’s Jesse’s endgame? And who is Riley? First learn how it began…
Earthlings Welcome Here
The Big Fall Finale
Monday. 8PM/7PMc. FOX.
HA! I knew it all along. I knew Riley was slowsly infiltrating the high school the whole time John was attending, during season one.
I hope this finally settles the debate that Riley is from the future.
Something I always wondered though, how did Jesse track down what high school John was attending in 2007? Was she tracking Derek the whole time he came back?
Yes i knew it. She is from the future and she came with Jesse. Damn monday cant come any quicker. grrr!!!!
Cant wait!!
Sorry for another post. Just realised something. The writers must have been filming these scenes during season one perhaps. Because i am pretty sure that is the first school we see him in and this is where he meets cameron.
So jesse and reily were attempting to catch up with john before he meets cameron.
So many twists and turns i love it.
I think this is right before she talks to John on season 2 episode 2. Check out her clothes she’s wearing the same ones when she first met him.
OMGz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.
Chris V, he met Cameron in 1999 at a different highschool. That scene takes place in 2007 at John’s new high school.
The way he is dressed in that scene clearly shows his style lends itself to 2007, and not 1999.
In season one, John Baum dressed like he shoped exclusively at Abrocrombie & Fitch. I’m glad that phase is over now.
Carolos, John still has long hair in that scene, and he’s wearing different clothes than he did in AFTP. This scene takes place sometime during season one. I’m guessing it’s the first week of classes. John is reading some piece of papaer intently, that might be his class schedule.
This puts more weight on my theory that Riley is a Terminator/machine and might not even know it. The circumstantial evidence has been piling up all season; some of the more recent bits are:
- pushing her foster mother quite forcefully in Ep10, reminiscent of Cameron shoving John in Ep04 when she’d forgotten who she is
- stealing the lighter in Ep11 because she “likes shiny things”
- three of the four actors in the new promo photos play known Terminators. Why would Leven be one of the four, instead of Lena or Thomas or Brian or Richard?
- Riley’s fish-out-of-water confusion in this latest clip could just as easily be explained by her being a recently-activated machine as being a girl raised after JD
Because I don’t have anything better to do (that’s a lie, I have a LOT of stuff to get done) .. it looks like John is wearing the same thing from The Turk. I could be wrong (and probably am), but that would be interesting if Jesse found them before Derek hooked up with them.
When we found out that Riley was in on the plan to tear John and Cameron apart I knew right away she was from the future.
Sorry to say it, but I hope John/Cameron/Sarah all find out who she is soon and then John dumps her.
I miss my John/Cameron moments =( I loved the ones we’ve gotten in this season, but there is too few.
Also, I love how Camerons chip is still damaged. I hope we get to see more of that!
Perhaps her getting Derek/Sarah to take it out???
It’s also prudent to consider that John’s “sister” was also going to the same school. Given what Jesse told Derek, it’s likely that Riley’s job has been two-fold.
It does raise the question…why wouldn’t Cameron have spotted and cataloged Riley before? You’d think, since she doesn’t sleep, she’d have maintained a complete database on all of the students at the school. Even just passing in the hall, anyone Cameron didn’t immediately recognize would be scrutinized.
The only explanation that makes sense is that this occurs relatively close to “Samson and Delilah”, and thus Cameron didn’t have time…unless Riley was consistent in not letting Cameron notice her. Given what we’ve seen of Riley, how likely is that?
I love the way both of them suddenly looked away when they heard the barking dogs. Little touches like that…make this show a joy to watch!
Upon further thought, it looks like Riley’s student days start not too long after John and Cameron’s matriculation. John has emo hair plus seems to be looking at a schedule/map.
ahhh…I knew it…Riley is such an unlikeable character…its not bad writing (or acting) like SOME people keep saying…its good writing, we aren’t meant to like her. My hackles went up the second I saw her….
Kate…I could not disagree more. Why are we not meant to like Riley? Anyway, I always liked her, and she has just gotten even cooler now. This is an interesting character arc.
What is she up to? Do we believe Jesse? Does Riley believe Jesse?
john has long hair, and it does seem to be his first day at the school. and cameron is not with him, so this would be “before” he met cameron.
actually before where S-1 started
Also they have Riley made to look like “Cheri” her hair style is dramatically different and straight like cheri’s.
i hate to say it, but i do not like these 2.
not sure if the writers mean for us to dislike them or not, but i haven’r since either stepped on the scene(s).
re. this scene - i’d say this scene is from the high school where Cameron meets John.
that would mean they have been bouncing around time to get to John. probably were going to try to get to him before Cam did. good thing they didnt. Cameron saved him with that great pick-up truck scene. “if you want to live, come with me.”
that was the moment i fell in love with Cameron. =)
re. Riley as a terminator - i dont think so. unless they programmed her to not know it AND truly have only memories of the girl who’s persona she stole/took.
re. Riley from the future - not to pat myself on the back, but it was obvious she was from the future in the episode where she made the comment about “all the mirrors in this world”. that implied she came from a world where mirrors and what some might call “superficial needs” were the last thing they worried about..
just my $0.02.
To me it seems like Riley has no choice but to follow Jesse’s commands. She is a prisoner or a puppet and seems like she wants to break free of Jesse’s evil ways. John seems like Riley’s only ticket out of this whole ordeal.
I think Jesse seems to want to mess something up with either John or Cameron. She gets Riley to help her but it is going to backfire.
I’m sure I’m saying what everyone already knows, but the subtext in this scene is absolutely brilliant (kudos to the writers).
When Riley expresses ambivalence about her red nail polish, she is really expressing anxiety about the role of seductress she is about to play. Red is the color of sexual availability. The more muted autumn represents what Riley believes to be her true understated character, which she is about to betray (or at least subvert).
Jesse addresses Riley’s fears directly when she tells her that it’s the perfect color, she’s just not used to wearing it. Jesse is saying in effect, “you have never asserted your sexuality identity before, but this is a color all women can wear.” Knowing Jesse as we do, she is also saying, “you are a seductress, deal with it. With John Connor standing in the distance, the time to ask questions is past because the time to act is upon us”.
Riley now seems more of a tragic figure than a full-fledged antagonist. She agreed to play this role, but it’s full repercussions to her fundamental character were lost on her. This raises the question of informed consent. Was she statutorily seduced by an older woman?
Is Jesse being set up to take all the blame, or will she also be perceived as a tragic figure? We know that Jesse was injured when one of John’s terminators turned. It would be interesting to find out what happened with the scrubbed terminator on the nuclear submarine, because she clearly didn’t harbor this level of animosity towards the deployment of scrubbed terminators during that time.
What did Jesse witness directly about John and Cameron’s relationship that made her decide she had to do something about it? How widely shared is her view of their relationship? Clearly, the bubble tech is in on it. Finally, will Derek kill Jesse if/when he finds out?
This is why I love this show. I don’t know any other show on television which engages viewers on so many levels.
Hey, if this was before S1, wouldn’t it have been like 10 years ago?
Well,it would be a very good plot twist and it would work perfectly if Riley was an I-950 organic human terminator model… that would make sense with all the hints given so far and mainly these three:
- she didn’t sleep in John’s room for the whole night and she built up a robot toy….
- she confronted Chromartie T-888 terminator at the front door directly with no fear, yes she is from the future but how can she be so sure of what a T-888 would have done there? She acted like Cameron could have done…
- she went in crazy mode when reacting to her foster family, which are probably just a bunch of other people from future tunnels under control of and being used by Jesse and the obvious resistance rebels that want Cameron dead and John Connor dethroned.
In a better clip, we can see that the bus behind John reads “Unified School District” which means that this has to be the L.A. school, not the NM school where John met Cameron (and Cromartie).
Riley’s not a terminator. The whole point of Jesse coming back in time is to stop Cameron, because of her influence over John. Jesse would be a hypocrite if she used a terminator to drive a emotional wedge between John and Cameron.
I agree with Logan.Jessie may well be a tragic figure. I think that she is in essence a Manchurian Candidate who was captured,tortured and brainwashed by the “Gray” Fisher.Despite her attempt to persuade Derek that he was Fisher’s victim and has forgotten it that was never credible.Recall that when Derek was about to kill the younger Fisher and prevent the mature version from coming in to existence it was Jessie who quickly killed the older man.Jessie thereby insured that the young Fisher would be sent to a mental health facility where he could acquire his psychological skills. Riley is likewise a victim.She was probably an infant on Judgment Day-she says in the clip that she has never seen Autumn.I suspect she was raised by the machines as a type of experiment “I like shiny things” and is now a reluctant part of of a Gray intelligence operation.The goal is clearly to weaken John ,perhaps fatally, by undermining his relationship with Cameron.
Too bad Riley isn’t a new type of Terminator that Cameron can’t ID! Then it would sure be a better match up if Cameron decides to kick the stuffing out of her!
Cameron needs to grab John by the back of his shirt collar and drag him to a spot where they can spy on Jesse and Riley, so John can finally wake up and see what these rats are shoveling. Then HE can decide their fate. My goodness, John having to make a command decision to get rid of Jesse and Riley before they can cause more trouble?! That ought to toughen him up a bit and put some starch in his knickers!
Cameron needs to learn to be more vocally assertive and not take John’s crap. Stand up and be noticed and take charge! Somebody has to. Sarah seems to be less than helpful right now as well.
I don’t get why Jessie wants to take out Cameron. But I haven’t trusted Riley from the start and the same with Jessie. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Jesse wants to take out Cameron, or atleast split John and Cameron (that seems more to the point of the romantic intrigue) because Jesse says that in the future John trusts machines too much. He puts one in every camp, and they go nuts and kill everybody.
Also, as far as terminators ID’ing each other, I don’t think that they can. Cameron was surprised in the 2nd episode by Vick. She also stared right at the bendable terminator in the elevator. And there was Cromartie in the classroom. They just have to figure it out, like Vick figured it out when he fought Cam and his display said “unknown cyborg”.
@Thecolours: and you think that Jesse would be afraid to look like an hypocrite or anything like that, perhaps? It seems obvious that she is part of the resistance rebels that want to control and maybe kill John Connor, it wouldn’t matter to them how their actions could be judged. It seems obvious that they would do whatever it takes to accomplish their mission.
one thing is for sure, that hairstyle that John has in the Riley/Jesse car scene is from Season 1.
which high school it is, I’m not sure. but that is Season 1 hair.
on Cameron:
I’m sure this has been discussed, so apologies if it’s a rehash.
the possibility occurred to me this morning that Cameron is truly gaining the ability to experience emotions.
since the Alison from Palmdale episode, I think her flashbacks have allowed her to program into her “being” the ability to feel and emote.
I think ultimately, she will feel jealousy. which will be bad news for Riley.
i think jealousy is a minor (if not more than minor) theme thie year. John told Sarah that she couldn’t stand the idea of him enjoying being around someone (Riley) that was not her (Sarah). thus speaking to Sarah’s jealousy.
(let’s not even get into the Oedipus complex aspect….)
the scene where Cameron is at the window watching John and Riley hold hands, it almost seems to be the 1st sign of her jealousy.
and when John is out all night and Cam touches him to get a chemical read on him, she confirms that he had been with Riley. jealousy brewing?
in my opinion, Cam’s losing it and reverting back to Alison is definitely a major part of what is driving her now. aside from her primary onjective - which is to protect her man. =)
i cant remember, but was it before or after the Alison episode where Cameron talks to John and says “girls are very complicated” ?
kind of light humor and foreshadowing by the writers perhaps?
did i say that i love this show?
dashibbit, that was “Automatic For the People”, near the end. Certainly a glimpse from the writers about what’s in store for John.
I don’t think the audience is supposed to wholly like/associate these characters. They appear untrustworthy and seem to have alterior motives. Nonetheless, they do have some interesting nuances. This is a well-written show — I enjoy it a lot.
I enjoy the recent shift to a slightly uncomfortable/ambiguous relationship between John and Cameron.
Lots of nice things going on with this show.
As an aside, I also enjoy the clever use of ambiguity as to whether Cameron is (1) actually “feeling” or (2), merely executing the visual signs/signals of “feeling” and/or copying assimilating human nuances in a mechanical way.
I thought this was very cleverly communicated in the Self Made Man episode, where she is actually quite frightening in her communications with the disabled man. I liked that a lot. Quite unsettling for a “hero” character.
One last comment: the fact that Cameron is, prima facie, very attractive to the typical human, yet underneath this, is a machine executing commands — sometimes in a cold and completely socially unaware/unsocialised manner — is very interesting.
There are lots of interesting things going on with this character. She appears fragile and demure, yet can be very strong and dangerous. While she sports an exterior of human flesh, she can be completely emotionally detatched (and occaisionally morally detatched — at least as we humans understand it). In particular, I enjoyed the scene where she attempted to “persuade”/influence (or merely “get close to”) John by lying down beside John and conversing with him in a very intimate way. (The episode was Series 2 Episode 9: “Complications” I think). I thought that this scene was very unsettling and quite enthralling. It was ambiguous to me whether she was doing that for herself (self gratification / an attempt at wish fulfulment / jealousy response) or whether she was doing it for the greater good of the overall mission. Very ambigous scene — very interesting.
Is Cameron going through a series of mechanical steps to work towards a desired outcome, or is she adopting and actually learning/assimilating human behaviours? Can “love” and/or emotional “feelings” flow from an advanced machine if left in a human envoronment for long enough? Or can it merely attempt to mechanically re-create/mimick them? Could it really “feel” emotions such as jealously, the will to protect others, or “love” and/or the will to “be with” a human?
Subtle show. I like it a lot. One of the best shows on television in my opinion.
I just caught another cool thing from the clip.
When Jesse and Riley hear the dog barking, they nearly jumped out of their skins (especially Jesse) and started looking around for a terminator. Didn’t catch that the first time I watched it.
Shiny!
Hey Evan,
Terminators are meant to be infiltrators; a succesful terminator can completely go “under the radar” and blend in as a human (i.e. Vick being happily married). Of course, there are certain tests, like shooting at it (recall in T1 the police suggesting that perhaps Ahnuld absorbed the bullets because he was wearing body armor and was able to punch thru the window with his bare hands because he was strung out on PCP…so this one’s not incontrovertable); naturally, dogs can spot them easily. So even they have trouble IDing each other many times, unless they’ve met (i.e. Cameron recognizing the one who was mistakenlly sent back to the ’20s in “Self Made Man”, she claims she’s met him before, probably in the future, but never specified how).
So as for Vick not knowing Cameron’s identity, I understood it to mean that he couldn’t tell what model she is. I think Cameron is a more advanced model than the T-888 as her display is in color (while Cromartie, et al. are in red). He knew she was metal by the way she was absorbing the fire (dead giveaway). What’s interesing is how the contortionist and Cameron seemed to ID each other almost right away by the fact that they both had the same walks and manerisms. It seems that they have within their systems some method for sniffing each other out, but unless they’ve met before, they would be processed as “unknown”.
As for why the pause in the elevator, I don’t think either one of them wanted to take out any casualties. Cameron seems to have learned a thing or two about compassion (contrary to Ahnuld from T2 asserting “I’m a Terminator, I kill people”). But why the contortionist also paused is beyond me.
@Fish
The reason Cameron and the contortionist paused in the elevator was because each realised their identities would be revealed. The contortionist’s objective was to infiltrate Dr. Sherman’s office. If she had continued fighting in the elevator, the level of collateral damage would have potentially compromised her primary objective, which she had yet to achieve. She essentially tried to limit the number of variables she had to deal with in order to fulfill her mission.
Thanks Logan. Do you believe that the contortionist was actually trying to kill Boyd Sherman? Or perhaps was she going to protect him from his iminent murder by “John Henry”? I definitely believe that “John Henry” murdered Boyd Sherman because he offended him somehow, and James Ellison is about to make a very important discovery–one that will further drive him to question his faith.
Can someone please answer me, why Skynet sended a Terminator to end and replace Ellison, if he’s helping Catherine Weaver?
And will Ellison end like that scientist in “The Turk” who helped the terminator, just for the sake of science (in Ellison’s case Religion..or trying to stpo machines)?
As far as i’m concerned, this has been one of the better blog posts as far as comments go. I luv reading up on other people’s opinions (and some of you guys are a lot more mild then those on the wiki forums) THANK YOU!!
When i run out of things to think about during the day, i simply pull up my link to this blog and read away. Keep up the speculation and for all those who say that T:SCC never leaves the audience bored…AMEN TO THAT!!
@Stuff84
The only explanation that has been furnished was Cromartie’s. All he said was that Skynet didn’t trust Ellison the way Cromartie did. When Ellison asked Cromartie to explain, he answered “that you’ll lead me to the Connors.”
I think there’s more to it than that. Cromartie had been following Ellison, believing that Ellison would lead him to the Connors; for reasons undisclosed to us, Cromartie found T-Ellison to be an interference with his mission, so he terminated him. I think that Ellison has a bigger role in the schema of things than any of us realize, and Skynet thought it would go down more smoothly if Ellison was replaced by a T-888. Cromartie disagreed, figured he still needed the real Ellison to fulfill his mission objective, so he took out T-Ellison.
Yes, Ellison may end up like Goode and Sherman. Based on the spoiler, it seems that Ellison has been trying to teach “John Henry” about morality by using Christian doctrine. Sarah’s already said in “Automatic for the People” that Cameron is outside His duristiction; could John Henry be as well?
Reminds me a bit of “Reason” by Isaac Asimov, where a artificially intelligent being decides that humans can’t have created him because he is more “perfect” than them, and something less perfect can’t create something more perfect. This is probably the dilemna “John Henry” is going through now as he becomes more self-aware, as he realizes that he is better than those who have programmed him. Ellison might be that last beacon who attempts to teach the machine compassion, human concepts if you will. Eventually, “John Henry” will realize he’s a power above it…but how will he react?
@Fish
No, I don’t believe that Dr. Sherman was a SkyNet because it would have been easy for terminator to go after him directly. Instead it decided to terminate his assistant. That suggests to me that the terminator wanted to infiltrate Dr. Sherman’s office to surveil, not to terminate him. Perhaps SkyNet knew that Dr. Sherman would become instrumental in John Henry’s development, or discovered that Dr. Sherman was linked to the Connors in some way.
I don’t believe John Henry murdered Dr. Sherman because it was offended. Rather, I think Ellison hit the nail on the head. When the power went out, John Henry simply went into survival mode without concern for collateral damage.
I am new to this site. I just had to come on and say that Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles is the BEST SHOW ON TELEVISION! I could watch it all day. An hour is just not long enough and now I have to wait for months to see it again.
Regarding Riley:
Confusing flashback with Jesse in the car. The details don’t seem to match exactly any particular school scene that has already been shown. It would not make sense to take place in New Mexico many years prior and with the name of the bus “Unified School District” being the same used in LA.
It also is not Season 2 - Episode 2 when Riley first approaches John outside the school because Riley and John are wearing completely different clothes and hairstyles, although it’s implied by being in front of the same school bus.
This scene seems like it could have taken place the first day of school in LA in Season 1 - Episode 3. John is wearing the same thing (almost, if not exactly) and, of course, the hairdo. Looking back at that episode (S1E3), John leaves for school shortly before Cameron and then they are next shown walking towards the front entrance together after coming around the corner (with a school bus in the background). Possibly the car scene took place just before that and just after the car scene Cameron meets up with John. Then Cheri is following just behind John as he comes in through the metal detectors. It’s interesting to note that Riley is wearing nearly the same thing as Cheri (minus Cheri’s scarf & Riley’s red nail polish) and sporting the same straightened long blonde hair. Just after Cameron sets off the detector, Cheri eyes both of them as she comes through. Then eyes John & Cameron again when they come into the classroom.
Are we to conclude that Riley is actually a Season 2 version of Cheri? Cheri & Riley act a lot alike, but their family & background seem different. The car Cheri gets picked up in is a different make & color. And why would she have told John to stay away when she was getting picked up if it was Jesse picking her up? Perhaps it was a father from a different foster home who was some psycho that she didn’t want coming after John…? Or was Cheri just a different character arc & story line they were initially trying to start before they dropped her story entirely and went with a whole new angle using Riley instead? In which case, when exactly in Season 1 did Riley show up and take a back seat to Cheri before finally approaching John?
Maybe the flashback is just meant to show a concept of the idea of Riley first meeting John and they don’t want us thinking too hard about the details. All in all, we’re left with more questions than answers. Hopefully, these will come out in February’s new episode.