Some of you eagle-eyed viewers may notice that tonight’s episode, Alpine Fields, sets a new record for the show in number of onscreen chyrons used to designate the time and location of what we’re seeing. We normally hate to use these little audience helpers, popular as they may be, but we made an exception for this episode, and you’ll probably notice why as well: it’s probably the most structurally complex thing we’ve done to date.
While in the past we’ve used flashbacks and played games with linearity and narrative structure, this is the first time we’ve simultaneously had one character flash back to her past while another flashed back to his. But such is the twisty nature of time-and-cause-and-effect in the Terminator universe that it made the most sense to tell the story of Derek Reese and his multiple connections to the Fields family in the past, present, and future.
And speaking of the future, I always feel bad when it leaks out that an upcoming episode is going to feature scenes from the Future War ™, because I know a segment of our viewership is in for both elation and disappointment. The tantalizing glimpses of mankind’s desperate struggle against the machines are some of the most memorable scenes from the Terminator film series— the closest the franchise comes to pure science fiction action porn. Yet they also tend to be incredibly difficult and time-consuming to shoot, and in this case we chose to use the future to tell a smaller and more intimate story.
So while you may not see flashing plasma rifles, marching endoskeletons and exploding H/Ks, we hope you’ll be intrigued by the hints at the global nature of the man vs. Skynet war as well as moved by the story of a family trying to survive the unthinkable and a man’s struggle to find a reason to live in the midst of devastation and hopelessness. Because while other science fiction worlds have come and gone, the human drama at the heart of the Terminator franchise is the exact ingredient that’s kept people watching for nearly a quarter century.
Speaking of the future…are we going to see Kyle Reese anytime soon? I miss Jonathan Jackson.
Awesome episode! So Derek really was going to commit suicide.
Interesting episode. I like how we see the story of Derek and Jessie meeting, after it was told to us in a previous episode. Nice touch. I liked the overall arch of the story and how it all ended up making sense at the end.
Cameron got thrashed, how is it that she was knocked out again? I did’nt think Cyborgs could be knocked out unless they get zapped or have there power cells damaged. Neither of those situations seems likely in this case. Anyway in a morbid kind of way it was nice to see that Cameron isn’t unstoppable… Just nearly. It was also nice to see the Mini Firefly reunion with Summer and Carlos. Maybe more of these type reunions are in the future?
In any case nice job to the cast as usual keep up the good work, and as always come on season 3!!!
I freakin loved this episode!!!
I loved the disfunctional family
I loved seeing lil.tenent Perry again
I loved badass Sarah
I loved all of the future scenes
I loved the whole plot of the episode!!!
Please guys! do me a favor will ya?
BRING THAT LAUREN CHICK BACK FOR MORE EPIS!!!
I don’t know who she is but she owned the episode! seriously great casting!!
I liked the ducttape use on the rifles!!
Lauren deinitely should come back in the second half of the season - great casting, fresh new interesting character!
Only one wee thing…. where is Weaver? We haven’t seen that ambiguous T1001 for 2 whole episodes now!
I agree, I like Lauren and the actress that played her. She did great. I still think its cool that humans still have subs. I always thought that some Navy ships (US, Royal Navy, Russian navy) would be out there. They couldn’t all be wiped out, esspicly the subs. Plus its nice to see that there r other survivors besides people in California. I liked the episode a lot, and I couldn’t believe that Cameron got owned like that. I didn’t see it coming. I hope that Cameron isn’t going to turn or anything because if she does I will be pretty angry. And I still don’t trust Jessie or Riley after seeing the trailer. Also wouldn’t that nuke powerplant be different since Weaver took it over?
Great episode guys, and I liked the Firefly reunion!
Just wanted to stop by and say that I really liked this episode. Although…no John? This makes me sad. But yay for so much Derek! Brian Austin Green did an amazing job this week. I loved the side of Derek we saw tonight.
I’m still not sold on Jesse (and I probably never will be *Shrugs*) but I thought Lauren was really cool. I really want to see more of her. It really felt like this episode should’ve been two hours long, there was so much there to explore still.
Thumbs up. Liked the two terminators hunting each other. Cameron getting thrown through the window was a surprise, and I was glad to see this terminator was no pushover–they’re suppose to be hard to stop. Got to head to fox.com to watch this episode over again.
I loved Lauren…loved her. She’s a mini version of Sarah, so cute.
You guy’s really need to write her into upcomming episode. There’s so many possibilties. John has so much to learn from her. She’d be the perfect person for John to talk to as a friend.
“So while you may not see flashing plasma rifles, marching endoskeletons and exploding H/Ks, we hope you’ll be intrigued by the hints at the global nature of the man vs. Skynet war as well as moved by the story of a family trying to survive the unthinkable and a man’s struggle to find a reason to live in the midst of devastation and hopelessness.”
Nicely said. This one really struck a emotional chord using that theme creating a very good solid episode. This is why some of us viewers really like this show. Although the plasma rifles and endos have their charm too.
25 years btw, man I hope Fox understands how strong this franschise really is and how this show have proved to strenghten it even furher by looking more into the human stories in the Terminator universe:
“Because while other science fiction worlds have come and gone, the human drama at the heart of the Terminator franchise is the exact ingredient that’s kept people watching for nearly a quarter century.”
Well said.
I’m curious, did Fox not allow you to show Derek put the gun in his mouth? I feel like it would have clarified the scene for new viewers.
I add to the chorus of others, I loved Lauren and thought it was great casting! Love her discussion with Sarah about birdhouses which shows Sarah’s longing for a normal life she knows she can never have.
And Lena with shotguns, Lena with an axe, Lena with electrical tape and Lena just being a badass Sarah Connor…I was a happy, happy viewer!
P.S. Thanks to you guys at the FOX site for having the whole episode up for viewing so soon after the live airing. I came home from work to find my DVR on the blink and would have cried without my SCC on a Monday!
While I enjoyed “Alpine Fields”, it would be helpful to understand why standalone episodes exist in the first place. I’m on pins and needles about the C-J-R love triangle, the three dots, Ellison, John Henry, and Weaver, Riley and Jesse, Jesse and Derek. Sure, you gave us a little backstory on Jesse and Derek, but things between them have grown way more complicated.
I always give you guys the benefit of the doubt, but this type of story doesn’t appear to lend itself to a procedural format. Any chance you can explain what you’re trying to do, whether it’s slow down the story to provide an opportunity for new viewers to jump on the bandwagon, or b/c you were told to do so?
Loved this episode. But i wish i could just go forward in time and buy the season 2 and “three” box set and watch it all in one go.
I will try to be patient. There has been no episode i didnt like so keep up the good work. One more episode and no more till next year.
Logan - i think you just answered your own question really. Their are standalone episodes to keep you viewing the show until the next big episode that answers a lot of questions. To be honest every episode has moved on the story in some way. Perhaps not in the stopping skynet storyline but they will most likely come together and it will be AWESOME!!.
I dont mind if they string it out to be honest because 1) It will help secure more seasons 2) You dont want all the answers right now 3) We will get to know and love all the characters so much more
Outstanding episode!!! Loved the way you showed us the begining of the relationship between Jesse and Derek!! Lauren was a pretty nice character, it would be interesting to see her back in the show. The only thing I found confusing was the timing. What should we consider the present? When Sarah and Cameron meet the Alpines or when Derek meets Lauren?
Dang! Cam got trounced! It’s odd to think she’s really not invincible…hope nothing bad happens to her cause if so there’s gonna be a lot of fans and shippers pretty freaken pissed off…
Can’t wait for the next ep…finally we’ll get some answers!
There are only 22 episodes in this season, and we’re at the midpoint. If they simply showed a scene where Cameron surveils Riley or Ellison it would move those storylines forward. I don’t mind if most elements of the episode are standalone, but the choice to put every single major storyline on hold is perplexing.
Last night’s episode could have been shown at any point this season after “Samson and Delilah”. In fact, “Alpine Fields” is so standalone it could have been the pilot for a spin-off about a resistance fighter and her baby sister who “saves mankind”.
Which leads me to another pressing concern: the conscious or unconscious decision to diminish John Connor’s central importance to the future of mankind. With terminators targeting so many people, John Connor appears to be just another target on SkyNet’s enemy list, no different from that little girl. In fact, her story eerily mirrors John and Sarah’s story: SkyNet sends back a terminator to kill the mother of a little girl who “saves mankind”.
Why the choice to depart so radically from the orginal terminator mythology? The past two seasons have so diminished the myth of John Connor that he is almost unlikeable. He is being portrayed as unbelievably selfish. Four young men lost their lives when Riley left the alarm off, and he still insists on dating. His little trip to Mexico touched off a massacre, and he still wants to have the time of his life. It’s enough to make someone form the “I hate John Connor” fan club. It’s over the top. No HERO is that narcissistic.
The Lauren character is portrayed as even more heroic than John. She immediately embraces her destiny, as difficult as it is. I’m all for female enpowerment as a theme, but I don’t think we have to destroy John Connor to acomplish that. It’s not a zero-sum game.
Logan, it seems to me that every post I read from you, you do tend to complain.
What Logan said.
And let’s not destroy Sarah either just so John can outgrow this nebulous season two phase.
Nice episode, Alpine Fields, but I don’t really care much for what happens in the Connors’ corner with the Skynet plot left hanging in the air.
So many good episodes this season, so little movement forward. Don’t get me wrong here, I love the show, I can’t remember the last time I looked forward to a new episode of anything this much, but TSCC needs to become something more than an exercise in metaphors and symbolism soon, especially if characters are suffering for it.
Oh and Logan about a “hero” being narcissistic John is a regular kid he is trying to make things normal. That and hes going through PTSD, so I’m sorry but lay off of the kid.
Not sure if anyone else agrees with me at all.
I don’t. John really is beyond narcissistic. What’s worse, we don’t even see him try to deal with things, we only see him being really stupid. I liked him better in season one, silly hair notwithstanding.
@Evan
When you love something, you tend to care what happens. I didn’t surrender my brain when I started watching TSCC, and neither should you.
If I didn’t care so much, I wouldn’t spend so much time trying to communicate my concerns.
John is in a personal crisis involving emotional trauma and denial. Every character is entitled to one, yes, even the great John Connor. Things always get bad before they get better. It’s how stories work. People should quit whining about it.
About what Logan said, I disagree. Politely, because I don’t mean to start any arguments here. I just think that while John IS the future savior of mankind, the show is still called Terminator: The SARAH Connor Chronicles. Yes, John is being portrayed as selfish and a little punk, but he’s a teenager. I think they’re doing a great job building his character from someone who takes his mother’s word for everything to a rebellious teenager who is going to try and deny everything and then to someone who will finally come to realize that whether he deals with it or not the responsibility is his. The fact that people have perished due of his imaturity will likely play a major part in his character in the future. Also, let us not forget that he took his first life this season, while Sarah has yet to do it. PTSD or not, of course he’s going to be all messed up.
On an even more personal note, I watch the show for Sarah. She’s also the reason why the first two movies were so great while the third flunked. When you think about it, the third one had the best special effects, it had a decent plot and even the comedy relief. It had a T-X! But no Sarah Connor. Sarah Connor IS the terminator franchise. The movies have always been about her. I’m not denying John’s importance in the future, but the show is mostly in the now, and it’s her show. Well, hers and Cameron’s, because Summer is so good she just runs whatever scene she is in.
I think the show is great as it is, I was glad to see Derek get more screen time as well, and I didn’t even hate Jesse in this episode. Also, no Riley? Bonus.
While we haven’t seen John really try to deal with his problems, we have seen the consequences of that inaction. The fight at the party sticks out in my mind the most but even so far back as his refusal to torch Cameron in the season opener would be part of it.
I’ve seen PTSD in people close to me and the biggest thing that struck me is how often they don’t act like you expect them to; They don’t act like themselves. Rebellious behavior is something a lot of teens already exercise and I think it’s almost unrealistic (But hey, it’s TV)that someone as traumatized as John Connor has it held together as well as he does.
I agree to what Logan said, John needs to wise up. We all know it’s SARAH Connor Chronicles, not John’s, but he’s turning into a very dislikable character, something that surely didn’t happen in Season 1! And it’s somewhat dangerous to the mithology.
We know, it’s all bout John’s development, but he’s kinda running in circles. In Goodbye to All that, he really did man up! But in the following episodes, he went reverse! If it goes like that, i’ll honestly hope that the resistance will be lead by Sarah and Cameron!
Sarah was absolutely great in this episode. Lena Headey is just perfect in this role!
Too bad we didn’t see much of Cameron in this one, but hey, we had 100% screen time of her last week, so yeah, it’s fair =)
And Lauren was also great! Loved the character and the actress! Hope to see more of her soon!
@101
You make an excellent point. I completely get that John is going through emotional turmoil, but so is Sarah, Derek, Riley, Jesse, and Cameron (in her own way). John’s emotional turmoil is portrayed as particularly un-heroic.
If we don’t get a third season pickup, will we be left with this John Connor?
In the terminator mythology, John is THE HERO. TSCC is departing from that element to make room for other heroes. I get that; but don’t tear down John until he’s completely unrecognizable to those of us who have stayed with this story for the past 25 years.
Didn’t mean to insult you Logan, so don’t take it that way at all please. I hope that they don’t make Cameron go crazy again, or turn bad.
While it was an okay episode (definitely not the best), there were some structural problems that cropped up IMHO.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill, but somebody needs to say it. LOL!!
For one thing: you have 41 minutes. You need to strip down the superfluous characters and don’t waste time on them and FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS like a laser. I’m not a viewer who has A.D.D., thankfully!! =)
Since A.F. was really about a plague that has cropped up, Jesse and Derek, Sydney and Lauren… then keep it on them. You could then spend MORE time with Derek and Jesse in the future (and NO, you don’t have to have tons of SFX to do it… like you said, keep it intimate). Make the plague a way to build tension and suspense… who started it? Was it a Skynet plot? Etc. Etc.
Since Cameron and Sarah were practically side-lined (and John was nowhere), just take them out of the equation for the episode.
Cameron and the T-888 didn’t make sense anyway because in the last episode you made it seem like Cam could EASILY take out a T-888 with one hand tied behind her back! The same with the girl-bot a while back.
And this goes to my next point…
Cameron flying through the window to end up inoperable on the floor has caused some confusion with the fans.
Why not have shown Cameron’s inability to fight this particular tough hombre unit by having the T-888 announce his arrival at the cabin by throwing an inert Cameron through the window! It grabs you and shows that DAMN! they’re in for a world of hurt! He smashes through the wreckage and in the confusion that follows, Lauren finds a hiding spot while Sarah and the dad and maybe the “other man” blast away at the T-888 with rifles, etc. and they draw him away from the house.
Cameron finally re-routes power, reboots… whatever… and finds Lauren huddled fearfully in a back closet and shows a little compassion towards her… the exact opposite of the T-888’s ferocity. Lauren, and the audience at first, think the T-888 has come back, only to find that it’s Cameron. Cameron then finds another gun and Lauren and Cam make their own get away.
I think that would have made for a more exciting episode, in my humble opinion.
@ Mayumi
Your disagreement with my POV won’t be taken personally. You have every right to your opinion, and you make excellent points.
I agree that Sarah is at the heart of this tale. I’m not opposed to that. But I have to admit that I increasingly DISLIKE John as the season progresses. I’m sure the writers didn’t intend for this to happen. I understand that he’s suffering from PSTD, that he’s going through a rebellious stage, etc., but after a certain point, who cares why he’s the way he is?
“Alpine Fields” then gives us this teenager, Lauren, who understand her destiny and embraces it. We immediately embrace her.
The reasons why T3 failed are legion, but I don’t believe that the absence of Sarah Connor was the primary reason. Hell, those writers just didn’t get it. One of the reasons it wasn’t well received (by me anyway) is that John Connor was portrayed as such a wuss. He went from a spunky 12 year old in T2 to a whiney twenty-something who needed to grow a pair.
I’m weary of this reluctant hero crap. It’s tired and overused trope.
Logan,
You said A LOT!
Why not make Lauren the savior and put HER in charge?
John’s an ASSH–E right now and I’m really getting annoyed with his character.
Get Cameron to walk right up to John, after he acts like a jerk to her again, and she slaps him hard in the face and says: WAKE UP!!
It’s just the thing to snap him out of it and turn him 180 again to somebody we can take seriously and honestly LIKE again.
great show i just miss the ass kicking there has no real fights for the last 4 shows. they need to mix in more fighting as it is a terminator show and not just a drama.
I agree that John, through most of this season, has been unlikable. He’s been downright annoying.
I didn’t even realize that he wasn’t in this episode until after I read the messageboards. No wonder the episode went so fast, every scene mattered. There were no John, Riley, or worst John & Riley scenes I just wanted to skip over.
Why is it that other teens get it, their place in the future, except John. Martin Brundel got it, and Lauren accepted it. Can we replace John with one of them, please?
Now that I think about it, it dawns on me why Cameron might have had trouble with that 888. The fight with the 888 at the cabin took place 6 months earlier in the time line. As we all know Cameron has gotten more skilled at dispatching other Terminators over time, (Stark for example was easy pickings for her) but since this was 6 months prior she hadn’t yet gathered all that tactical know how and adaptations to 888 fighting styles. In that sense she was probably a little out matched. Though given the amount of damage the 888 had she certainly gave him a pounding, and ultimately I would surmise got the last laugh in the end given Dereks comment on the phone.
I think John is going through PTSD, and being a teenager just makes things worse. He is being a total ass BUT isn’t it so true that the man of tomorrow is forged by his battles today?
Realistically, John would never be the resilient leader he needs to be if he didn’t go through this stage in his life. It’s just a rebellion, and maybe it’s his rebellious side that ends up winning the war on robots in the end. He’ll wake up soon enough.
And since I’m one for some HUMOR, even black humor to crop up more often on the show…
Have I got a classic 70’s rock song for Riley and Jesse!
Elton John and Bernie Taupin’s dark and slightly twisted “All the Girls Love Alice”
Raised to be a lady by the golden rule
Alice was the spawn of a public school
With a double barreled name in the back of her brain
And a simple case of Mummy-doesn’t-love-me blues
Reality it seems was just a dream
She couldn’t get it on with the boys on the scene
But what do you expect from a chick who’s just sixteen?
And hey, hey, hey, you know what I mean
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
Come over and see me
Come over and please me
Alice it’s my turn today
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
If I give you my number
Will you promise to call me?
Wait till my husband’s away
Poor little darling with a chip out of her heart
It’s like acting in a movie when you got the wrong part
Getting your kicks in another girl’s bed
And it was only last Tuesday they found you in the subway dead
And who could you call your friends down in Soho
One or two middle-aged dykes in a Go-Go
And what do you expect from a sixteen year old “yo-yo”
And hey, hey, hey, oh don’t you know
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
Come over and see me
Come over and please me
Alice it’s my turn today
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
If I give you my number
Will you promise to call me?
Wait till my husband’s away…
@ Logan
Thank you for not taking it personally and for being respectful.
I think you also make a good point: I don’t like John either, at least not this season. In that aspect, I agree with you, and I agree with Rachel. I just think that the writers are going somewhere with this - and I only hope that we get the time necessary to develop him into a full-time leader.
I was thinking about the difference between Lauren and John, and the only thing I could think of is that Lauren doesn’t really have someone like Sarah Connor to pad the walls around her. Sarah is his mother and she moves heaven and earth to keep him safe; that is good and it isn’t. As Cameron has pointed out before, she needs to let go. He needs that space so that, one, he can grow, and two, not take her for granted. His attitude towards her this season sickened me.
Yeah, I will also agree that there were *many* reasons other than what I have already said for T3 to be a failure.
Here’s to hoping that T4 won’t.
I just rewatched the episode. Phenomenal.
In reference to how John’s been acting this season, I think it is important to try and put yourself in his shoes. Would you act differently? You’re told you’re the savior, but how does a savior act? Who saves the savior?
In the movie “The Last Temptation of Christ”, you see Jesus (played by Willem Dafoe) as he is struggling to deal with the fact that he is the supposed “savior” of mankind. That’s heavy news for anyone, Jesus or John Connor. (Yes, I realize what a ridiculous parallel I just made)
In my opinion, John will come to accept his role in due time.
Notes from a new viewer: I started watching this show about a month ago, then last week went back and watched all of Season 1 and all of season two so far. Really fantastic show is many ways. Personally, I like the character relationships the best. It’s the glue that makes great series and movies work like Star Trek. Years later you remember the characters and their relationships and not the action scenes. Secondly, I like the humor injected into such a serious and violent story as this one. The relationship between Cameron and John is a good example of this. Things she says are so endearing and how John smiles at her is sweet.
I’m surprised to hear so many of you complain about John. I didn’t get angry at his behavior at all. He’s taking calculated risks and thought it would work. He’s learning as he goes. That’s called growing up. Bet none of you ever made bad decisions as a teenager. We learn more from our mistakes than anything else. Certainly not what our parents tell us. We have to find out for ourselves. Unfortunately, John’s learning curve is as dangerous as it gets. Thank goodness he has Cameron! I think the scenes of the future are depressing and am glad when they end. The shorter the better. Thanks to the writers and producers for putting together a show that makes you think. It’s like reading a Sherlock Holmes novel and trying to guess what happens next. Critical thinking is in short supply these days and we need all the help we can get. The cast does a fantastic job. Summer is my favorite. She is mesmerizing on screen.
Summer IS mesmerizing on screen!
She’s made of awesome. And “My mistake.” - how priceless was that? Almost better than “Come here and give it to me.” Her presence on screen is amazing. Some day I’ll move to the US just to meet her. 
Very nice story this episode, loved the future stuff. Though, I didn’t like some of it’s execution.
Though I understand the limits on special effects, sometimes i do miss a little of that “pure science fiction action porn” you describe :). So I was a bit disappointed about how the 888 was dispatched… we didn’t even see it.
Also very little info on the main three characters, missed that a little. Anyway I am ready for next episode which promises to be a blast! I am one of those that watches for the machine side (and them interacting with humans). So an episode with more Cameron and Mr, Henry, I can’t wait!
This is the only show I watch on tv, so keep it up you guys… I’ll miss you during the holidays!
Yeah, this episode totally worked, it had everything, a challenging and intelligent plot, twist after twist and terminator on terminator action, not to mention sub plots including furthering the love story plot.
Just fantastic, and yet half the spectacular cast were not even there, I hope Thomas and the rest enjoyed a break!
Possibly best episode yet, although the last few have been exceptional - still has there been a bad episode yet.
Very engaging comments in this post. Kudos to Logan for getting the ball running.
Not trying to go after Logan but trying instead to pitch into the discussion:
Doesn’t JC’s current teen rebellion reflect a more realistic scenario of a person forced to live up to an ideal he is not yet prepared for?
It’s interesting that John’s questionable actions creates more anger than sympathy for the young Connor’s growing pain. Because sometimes I guess that pain should realistically embody some bad judgement calls and maybe sometime even outright stupid unsympathetic decisions.
Maybe the writing needs to show Johns inner conflict and tougher teen behaviour in other ways if it may be hard for viewers sometime to appreciate the storyline of JC’s conflicted situation.
I guess it can challenging to create sympathy for an character expressing anger but who really’s sad on the inside, than a character who just expresses sadness.
In the end I have to say that I like it better to see a conflicted JC with more depth than a too clean cut hero development storylines. (Training montages, anyone?)
It will be interestng to see how far the writers are brave enough to mess with the mental health of their main characters without going too far.
I like what we saw in this episode - espicially Lauren! I hope we get to see more of her and what she becomes. It will be interesting to see more of what happens to Cam after the fight - did that push her closer to her comments from the previous episode about the bomb going off… etc.
Good episode!
For those who think T:SCC John is ruining the John Connor legend of the past 24 years, please consider: could your memories possibly be colored by nostalgia?
In T1, we only hear about JC through the words of Kyle Reese, a soldier so loyal to John he would die for him, and who is in love with Sarah.
In T2, we see a grim, scarred future John commanding the L.A. battlefield, but we never even hear him speak. In the present, he’s a snot-nosed punk from a broken home with uncommon intelligence. He does smart and stupid things during the story.
In T3, we see a twenty-something John who’s been living off the grid manage to get himself locked in a kennel. He seems alternately pulled forward by either the T-800 or Kate Brewster, and only begins stepping forward towards the end of the film. On Judgment Day, he becomes the voice of the Resistance from Crystal Point through chance rather than his own design.
In contrast to most of the others on this board, John has never annoyed me, in either season, even when Riley was supposedly a normal girl. I can easily see how the kid from T2 grew up into this teenager in his mom’s overprotective shadow, and is just now trying to run his own life.
John gets people killed when he goes to Mexico, but people get killed by terminators when he goes to buy groceries or take a leak. We can’t lay the responsibility for omniscience of the causality of all his actions on any one character, even if he wasn’t a teenager.
Luck plays a part in all this too, because if he hadn’t snuck off to Dejala the night before, Cromartie would have killed him in his bedroom.
And of course Martin Bedell and Lauren have all their character development compressed into their debut episode. It’s because we aren’t likely to see them again. Also, their only mission is to live, not to hunt Skynet or individual terminators.
Everyone on this show lies, malfunctions, and does stupid things, and I love them all for it. It’s unfair to single out John for not being perfect at age 16.
Future John (or perhaps Cameron of her own accord) wanted the Connors to jump eight years forward both to give Sarah a better chance at surviving her cancer, and to defeat Skynet and prevent Judgment Day. This was a gamble, because if they fail, John will be 20, not 28 on J-Day, and be that much less ready. So I have to ask, were any of us as wise, mature, and level-headed at 16 as we were at 28?
I’m afraid that part of the problem is that you guys started the show with John TOO young.
Not enough time between T2 and THIS John Connor has been allowed to elapse in order for you to buy that Sarah and John have become lax in their military training and have let themselves get lulled into a state of atrophy as I see in this series as you seem to be showing (intended or not).
Terminator 3 was loathed BECAUSE John Connor was such a whiney and pathetically weak character. Besides the fact that the Kate Brewster character had ZERO chemistry with John… you get married BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO. And Arnold’s character was morphed into a lesser being than shown in T2. Also, it seemed to lack some of T1 and T2’s humanity and humor. It made JD seem like it HAD to happen to keep a franchise afloat rather than for any other reason.
JD means death and misery on a tremendous scale, with all of nature practically wiped out. Why aren’t YOUR characters acting more like the end is nigh, so they are ACTIVELY seeking out The Turk to wipe it out?
That’s why many of us dislike this John Connor. He should be seeing that he CANNOT be a normal teen. He MUST fight NOW or we’re doomed!! And WHERE are his spectacular computer skills? They must be UTILIZED more!
The show needs to have more of a sense of urgency as if the clock is ticking and they can rest when they have succeeded.
Another problem with John is that he seems so easily duped and willing to accept whatever Riley or even Cameron has to say.
Also, after all these weird goings-on with Cameron… he seems curiously INCURIOUS about Cam. That’s a complete 180 from the very willing to communicate openly with his Terminator companion John Connor from T2.
They must COMMMUNICATE far more often. He should seem MORE concerned for her and less dickish if you are to show he actually TRULY loves Cameron… not just because she’s hot, but because she’s SPECIAL to him and also plainly special PERIOD.
He should be seeing WHY Cameron is different, and us too. That also means Cameron MUST be allowed to evolve into something that’s TRULY more than just a machine. If you have to “humanize” her a bit more in order to show that positive movement forward, then DO SO!
Remember, James Cameron *himself* allowed Arnold to move BEYOND and allowed the Tin-Man to find his heart. Which means in plain terms: his soul and his HUMANITY. And this was a lower model than Cameron! If a MACHINE can act BETTER and more HEROIC than a human, it means that there is hope for humans too!
That’s the HOPE you need. The POSITIVE.
You can’t just have doom and gloom.
Remember Sarah Connor’s closing words from T2.
They *must* not be forgotten. It is the FOUNDATION of this franchise that many writers have forgotten and have struggled with in taking over the reins from James Cameron.
Dan, You just summed up a lot of my thoughts as well… I loved the uncle bob - JC dynamic in T2… and i am missing it in season 2 a bit. Let’s hope that in future episodes this will change!
@ Ryan
I think I love you.
Dan, from my point of view, your opinion involves a dichotomy. The Connors can not strip all semblances of normality from their lives, and dedicate themselves 24/7 to “fighting NOW or we’re doomed” without making the show completely “doom and gloom.” Not to mention that level of stress would cause them to break down, as we seem to be seeing with Sarah, or borderline psychotic/suicidal, e.g. Derek and Jesse.
At the beginning of the series, Sarah and John are living in hiding, but in a city or large town, to facilitate John’s socialization. You are assuming that they aren’t keeping up with their military training, but there is no evidence of that. Certainly their escape and evasion plans are well-practiced.
After the pilot, that point remains unproven, since we only see minutes out of their days for the purpose of the dramatic narrative. John’s skills seem intact at Presidio Alto. We don’t see Derek practice his marksmanship either, but we don’t assume that his skills are atrophying.
Right now, the Connors are on the offensive, but they lost the trail of the Turk when Sarkissian died. Until they find another lead (i.e., until Ellison spills the beans), they are doing the best they can to follow the leads on the blood list. Don’t forget that Cameron and Derek are also contributing nothing toward this pursuit during their off-mission hours. At least John runs the search for the three dots for Sarah, and stays up all night putting together her cover identity and technical primer. The writers have not forgotten John’s computer skills, but we only see them when they’re dramatically appropriate.
John knows he can’t have a normal teenage boy’s life. He has said out loud that Cameron and Sarah are right, but he’s decided to keep seeing Riley any way. Thus far, it’s his one real rebellion, and he has always ditched her when a mission comes up. We see that he’s placing more and more trust in her, but I don’t agree that he’s easily duped, because she’s done little if anything to draw his suspicion. Though I suspect that will change in the mid-season finale.
As to the John/Connor romance and Cameron humanization theories, that’s a lot of expectation to place upon possibilities that have only been tantalizingly hinted at thus far. If they happen at all, those are endgame developments, and we probably won’t see them in the middle of the second season (personally I would prefer the terminators not to have true emotions).
As for the end of T2, if you mean “uncertain future,” then I think we’ve seen that the war in the present is changing the future all the time.
If you mean “if a machine, a terminator, can learn the value of human life… maybe we can too,” I would posit that the series writers have taken this lesson to heart. It is integral to the metamorphosis of Linda Hamilton’s Sarah to Lena Headey’s.
Ironically, it is also the basis of many fans’ criticisms of the character, as she continually makes the “mistake” of sparing humans that she should “man up” and terminate. This trait has bit the Connors in the butt several times, but I love her all the more for it. Because that’s part of what makes the Terminator series about hope and humanity, and spares it from the nihilism of other, more realistic action shows.
“Move it, Reese! On your feet soldier! On your feet!”
These words capture the defining moment in T1, in which Sarah Connor demonstrates an inner strength that belied her frail exterior. At that moment, we (the audience) grasped tightly to those few threads of hope that mankind would prevail against so formidible an enemy. This true fabric of this woman’s character was on full display.
I know these are the Sarah Connor Chronicles, but Sarah is no longer the source of hope for the future. John Connor is. Sarah is now the seasoned veteran charged with protecting the hope for the future.
Through 1-1/2 seasons of TSCC, there hasn’t been an unambiguous glimmer of hope revealed through the John Connor character. I know we’re still on the yellow brick road, and the cowardly lion ultimately finds his courage, but it would be helpful to have proof that this lion cub is on on the right path.
John Connor has had a few opportunties to shine, but those moments have been tinged with hues of profound recklessness. The most salient moment was in “Heavy Metal”, where John attempted to commandeer the cargo of coltan singlehandedly. While somewhat admirable in intent, he acted with a level of personal disregard that was cringe-inducing. It was hard to decide if it was heroic or just plain stupid. Whatever it was, it was just dumb luck that the outcome was favorable.
If there is one thing lacking in the series so far, it is hope. Some may argue that it is too early for hope. The threats against humanity are still gathering, and it has to be dark before there is light. I don’t disagree with that…in theory. But I can tell you that my gut tells me that if this series is to gain greater traction with viewers, hope has to arrive sooner rather than later.
I think that our times dictate hope’s early debut. This November alone, over 500k people were laid off from their jobs, and 1.3 million jobs have been lost so far this year. There is a level of anxiety in the country that hasn’t existed in a long time. During times of crisis, people are looking for sources of hope, and storylines filled primarily with doom and gloom will be ignored in favor of more optimistic ones that distract from the personal apocalypses occuring in real life.
From this perspecitive, it’s not hard to understand why TSCC isn’t gaining traction despite the brilliant writing and acting. The premise of TSCC is that our heroes are confronting the end of days, and are having a very difficult time dealing with that. It’s too close to real life for a lot of people to embrace.
I don’t want TSCC to be a victim of the times, and I don’t think it’s too late, but TSCC has to signal that hope is on the way. The viewers’ embrace of Lauren proves that the character arc for our hero doesn’t have to be as steep as originally intended.
So I say, let John Connor be John Connor. As the election of Barack Obama reveals, the country is primed to embrace the message of hope. Hopefully, in the back nine, hope will on full display (but in an organic way).
I rest my case (until someone tries to tear it apart).
When did Derek try to commit suicide? I don’t remember that part!
Logan, I think you are more right than wrong.
Ryan, what you said about Terminators flies in the very face of James Cameron’s story.
The idea is that a machine, a Terminator, “gets it.” WHY CAN’T WE?
The finding of one’s “heart” is the symbolic act of gaining one’s humanity, one’s very soul. It is the organ of the body that describes, in poetic fashion, EMOTION.
The Tin-Man was INDUSTRY, a heartless, man-made creation that was devoid of feeling. INDUSTRY used and abused nature, and man for greed and profit… a one-sided, selfish endevour. Through his journey along the Yellow Brick Road with his friends and companions… he discovered that hiding inside was a soul. He could be BETTER than his basic instincts and basic reason for being built in the first place.
That is MORE interesting to me than John or Sarah’s journey. They’re completely human and in a sense BORING. Cameron is INTRIGUING. Why do so many people like Data on Star Trek or HAL in 2001, etc.?
It is there quest to understand something that even humans are still grappling with to this day.
Having Cameron gain a wide-eyed wonder at the very world in which she finds herself in at present… a world that still has PROMISE, still has some LIFE left in it… and LEARN from it on a GRAND SCALE. Would be so much more fascinating. As it should become fascinating to her. THAT’S the Cameron many of us miss from Season One.
Having John and Cameron find true LOVE and COMPANIONSHIP together… something they are both missing at the moment… and allowing each other to be a comfort from the pain and sadness around them constantly is a BEAUTIFUL sentiment. That’s why many of us shippers are so vocal about this hook up.
Don’t take so long as to make it the ONLY hook for the show. There are many other outside threats and dangers that they should not wait until the end of the series where there is no time to explore what a man/machine relationship can be like: How they both explore the meaning of friendship, trust, loyalty, laughter, joy, sadness, and ultimately passion.
I’d be more interested in how they have to weather the onslaught of being together in such a threatening environment and how Sarah and Derek learn to finally cope with and accept and embrace something so unbelievably strange happening under the same roof, yet so profound for the future: a man and a female Terminator LOVE each other and don’t give a goddamn what anybody thinks.
Why is this so important? Because it sets up EXACTLY what the writers stated in Season One episode “The Demon Hand” that Cameron, in most ways, has BECOME like a human. The only thing that fundamentally is different is her makeup, but not the content of her character. She is mimicing anything, she UNDERSTANDS.
My goodness, Summer even admitted she cried when she heard that statement from Sarah’s monologue… and I almost did to.
It really goes back to James Cameron’s message to the audience.
And I hope the writers have not forgotten this.
Dan,
We take different messages from James Cameron.
“I know now why you cry… but it is something I can never do.”
For me, this was never a question of the T-800 having sweat glands, but not tear ducts. Uncle Bob was speaking figuratively that he had an intellectual understanding, perhaps even sympathy, but that full blown human emotions were beyond his capabilities. He understood at last the value of human life, but he was not, and would never be, human. Personally, this made his sacrifice at the end all the more tragic for me.
We know that Cameron is different. Perhaps she can gain the full gamut of emotions, including love in all its forms, and “become human.” I would just prefer to watch her developing along an asymptotic line, always striving toward full sentience and emotionality, but never quite being able to reach that ideal. That’s what I meant by terminators not having “true emotions.”
But perhaps I’m just jaded by every robot that comes along in popular sci-fi wanting to become human. I like that T:SCC has been different in that the terminators, even Cameron, don’t always seem to want to become completely human. I like to think that she’s cherry-picking her favorite parts.
@ Ryan,
I completely agree with your point of view.
Wow you all have good points, Especially Logan. But you can’t compare the films to the TV Series. It is not done by the same people for one thing.
I agree that john is being a fool and should man up but try placing yourself in his shoes. Ever since he has been born he has had the weight of the entire human race on his shoulders.
He is supposed to lead the human resistance and defeat Skynet. Also, not to mention fending of multiple attacks on his life.
Not I or anyone of you knows what that is like and would be able to be the soldier he is supposed to be. He is only 16 (Did he turn 16 in “Samson & Delilah” or 17? Didn’t he drive in Season 1 so he must be 16?) Anyway he is a teenager and still a rebel like in T2.
I actually think that everything that happens from now and between judgement day forms our future leader. It is really complicated and as many of you has said; this is Sarah’s chronicles and shows her story.
Anyway something I have been thinking about, If they somehow manage to prevent JD and save the human race and stop skynet. John Connor will cease to exist. Because the war needs to happen for Kyle Reese to travel back in time and do his thing with Sarah and save her, thus allowing for john to be born. Does that make sense or am I reading too much into it? Wouldn’t it be such a paradox, because then Cameron would cease to exist because the technology was never created to build her and so on and so on!!
@ Chris V
*laughs* You know, I always kind of wondered that myself. I drove myself crazy thinking about it. I mean, would Cameron simply disappear? But then, how does that Derek watching his younger self playing baseball in the park thing happen? There are two Dereks in the present, and they would age together, so in the future there would be two? And if that is so, wouldn’t we simply have to keep sending John over and over again to make an army of him? Whew, the whole time traveling reminds me of the wild mages in AD&D!
Yeah tell me about it. Makes your head spin thinking about the whole time travel thing. Also dont forget i dont think it can never be stopped. Because if T3 got one thing right and that is the only good thingn about that film is that there was never any stopping it. Skynet is “software” in cyberspace. And you could argue that you could just use some sort of virus to kill it, but since skynet is self aware that will be a very difficult thing to do
Ryan,
Whatever you think of my opinion…
I just was looking back over my last post (aahh!) and some of the spelling errors (there instead of their or to instead of too) from late last night, and like on the wiki…
THIS BLOG NEEDS A DAMN EDIT BUTTON!!!
LOL!!
“Since Cameron and Sarah were practically side-lined (and John was nowhere), just take them out of the equation for the episode.”
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO. I mean no disrespect, Dan, but you hit a button.
If I have to watch one more episode with SARAH CONNOR sidelined or out of the equation, I just may give up on this show completely.
Mayumi,
Thank you for your consideration.
Chris,
We shouldn’t try to compare the movies and TV series in terms of judgment because they are different art forms, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
However, since T:SCC draws its continuity (where appropriate) from T1 and T2, we absolutely can point to events, themes and parallels from the films when discussing the show. This deepens and enriches the mythology of the show itself. The writers do a magnificent job of perpetuating the spirit and the details from the films, even when they deliberately change things for a better fit. I applaud them for this care, when it obviously would have been easier to do a complete reboot of the franchise and hand-wave any inconsistencies.
As to your last point, I still think that the “pasts” of time travelers are immutable once they have left their original time. We’ve seen this with memories, and I would bet that this applies to physical changes as well. So killing young Derek or young Kyle would make no difference to adult Derek or John (sired by a time traveler originally, and now one himself). I believe Cameron would be safe for the same reason.
Oh, and the show might have already invalidated Skynet’s form in T3. First when Sarah burned down the first Turk, then when the second Turk lost the military contract, and finally when Weaver snatched it up to raise herself, possibly preventing it from ending up back at the U.S. Air Force. I doubt any of those things happened in the T3 timeline.
Dan,
I do respect and even understand your opinion. I don’t even consider you “wrong.” I just enjoy the show for different reasons than you, I think.
And editing is for scrubs. Insist that all your spelling is correct and call anyone who dares to question it a grammar nazi.