Next week’s Terminator journey takes us someplace we never expected… the 1920s??
Self Made Man
Monday - 8PM/7PMc
Live on FOX
the roarin’ twenties.
Posted on November 25th, 2008
by hadley
Category Air
Next week’s Terminator journey takes us someplace we never expected… the 1920s??
Self Made Man
Monday - 8PM/7PMc
Live on FOX
Oh, wow! If we get to see the nuances between programmed concern and human jealousy play out then this might be one of my favorite episodes! I’m very, very intrigued by Cameron’s growing curiosity (and mimicry) of human emotions and behaviors. We know she doesn’t have any feelings, John & Co. know she doesn’t have any feelings, but sometimes you really have to marvel at how well she fakes it.
I was kinda hoping a Terminator would materialize in a trench in WW1, but I’d say the 20s is close enough!
@ Borja
If Cameron didn’t feel, she wouldn’t be worth very much. She needs to fight for her man!
Haha, well said, though sensations and emotions aren’t the same thing. I wouldn’t be as interested in the show if Cameron was essentially a human brain in a robot body. The evolution of the machines is the root of the show and while it’ll be fun to see Cameron experiencing emotions, I don’t (didn’t?) expect it to happen so quickly.
I’m glad Cameron is starting to feel some emotions. Thats pretty cool that a robot is in the 20’s!
This is one of the episodes I’ve been wanting to see… some solid interaction between John and Cameron, which has been SORELY lacking.
And yes, you know by now that I am one audience member who would rather see Cameron GAIN *real* emotions and feelings through her experiences with the world around her and the people she lives with. Like Arnie in T2.
Something unexpected and perhaps magical like in L. Frank Baum’s “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz”… even for her. Kind of like: “WOW! What’s happening to me? I’m getting these sensations I’ve never had before… and they’re fascinating. I’m actually getting it… putting two and two together… and it’s wonderful and exhilarating.” Cameron always had a heart, she just didn’t realize it.
Think of it like reading about the world and people through books. You gain knowledge, but not first hand experience. You’re missing something important. You put the book down, and look around you… and your eyes are opened wide. You now have knowledge AND wisdom.
Or viewing the landscape through a camera lens. It’s always giving you a narrow viewpoint. It’s filtering your perception. Then you drop the camera and see the same thing through your own eyes, only it’s not filtered and a much wider scope. It’s a totally new and beautiful experience.
You could even have it start with John and Cameron’s first kiss. In fairy tales true love’s first kiss AWAKENS the sleeper. It’s the breath of life. Cameron’s inner soul, inner heartfire sparks alight.
And we need that SPARK on TSCC desperately. With all the doom and gloom, troubles, and betrayals. We need HOPE and LOVE to counterbalance despair. Their happiness and joy in each other’s company and each other’s lonely lives is the foundation that keeps the dark at bay, the wolves from the door.
My $.02 worth. I hope it has meaning to you.
A robot in the 1920’s? What’s next, hiring a musician to play a terminator, hoping that his or her’s loyal fan base will increase the ratings? Even though said actor, or actress (wink)has had no prior acting experience. This show has definitely not jumped the shark…nope. None what so ever.
(I spend to much of my free time defending this show. Just one time, I had to experience what it feel like being a hater.)
I think the exploration of the difference between artificially intelligent robots and humans is quite interesting. Humans experience emotions because we have certain areas of our brain devoted to that. Fear and aggression, and the other emotions, are all benefits to ones survival. But robots don’t seem to be so concerned with their own survival. They only care about the greater goal. Interesting. But perhaps the robot “brain” could develop true emotion very similar if not the same as human emotion in order to preserve ones-self for a purpose, or to be able to better understand humans. Maybe the robot could be able to turn on and off this emotional part of their “brain.”
Great show, fantastic episode!
Just consider me DJ Dan! =)
Here’s another few “shipper” ballads and songs for John and Cameron.
The first are from Greg Laswell’s album “Three Flights From Alto Nido.”
“And Then You”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9uts0U-YNY
“That It Moves”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQxHBQLMQJo
“It Comes and Goes (In Waves)”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXfa0xVgjo
—
The next few are a bit more, well, very slightly old-school, zippy and energetic, and fun. They’re from Lucy Woodward’s funky and groovy album “Is…Hot and Bothered.”
“Too Much To Live For”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riAxmx86gzs
“Love Is Gonna Getcha”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fHsYSQpbEo
“Use What I Got”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to6dXQVuhR0
And this last one is, um… slightly steamy.
“Hot and Bothered”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvZWarAAN7c
Enjoy! Good night!
i still don’t understand why they change soo much the relationship of john and cameron
everybody knows than one of the most strong elements of the great season 1 were they chemistry
that was a BAD idea,there are episodes when they don’t have interaction..BIG MISTAKE
i’m looking forward to see more of them in the next episodes
I’ve always believed Cameron DOES have emotions.
But rather than reveal them in such a heavy handed way that we get Data 2.0 I hope they do a more subtle job. Cameron isn’t human and should always have a tinge of the incomprehensible alien about her.
Just going through some of my CD collection on my harddrive and pulled up a few more IMHO cool songs… one is from the roaring 80’s! Sarah likes STYX’s “Mr. Roboto?” LOL! Why then, here’s…
Icicle Works’ “Bird’s Fly (A Whisper To A Scream)” for Cameron and Catherine, and all those advanced and hopefully growing and advancing sentient Terminators.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHaWEtrD7I
—-
Grace Potter and the Nocturnals (a fabulous young group!) these are from two awesome albums called “This is Somewhere” and “Nothing But The Water”:
“Falling or Flying”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEKnYA2b7NQ
“Mastermind”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJg_GGsLSkU
“Nothing But The Water”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3GhDmRLos
Good stuff! And Grace Potter and the Nocturnals are a treat to see live. This group has ENERGY with a capital E!
I think they’d work great actually included on the show. Gets these guys some more exposure too!
Yeah, next thing you know, they’ll hire a gigantic Austrian bodybuilder who’s barely intelligible in English to play a cyborg infiltrator in contemporary Los Angeles. Oh, wait…
Great to see you guys posting, Zack! Hope you’re enjoying the music in the writers room, at the very least. What do you think of Grace Potter and the Nocturnals in particular?
Saw them in Denver recently and I wish they could have played all night.
It’s not that I don’t like Bear’s score… it’s just that sometimes I think there could be some HIGH ENERGY and audience lifting music and songs mixed in to give a little extra KICK to the story and the vitality of the show.
As if to say that all is not lost… there is more to life than death and sadness. There can be pure joy in living and that by experiencing the simple pleasures in life… looking at the stars at night, smelling a flower, wiggling your toes into newly mown grass, dancing together in the rain, walking through the giant Red Woods hand in hand and seeing and hearing ancient nature up close and personal, and *listening* to some good music (live or recorded) with a good and loving friend… can be far better than living your life in a bedroom or even in a library, or with a gun in your hand.
That goes for humans… as well as cyborgs.
Peace this holiday season to you and yours.
Awesome - can’t wait to see this episode. What does Cameron do all night when she’s not doing laundry, waiting for John to come home after being out all night with Riley?
on the space network the show way more of next week it show the i920 terminator with tommyguns hes like a oldschool gangsta cant wait see that one love the show rock on
I am impressed by how better this show is turning up with these episodes. This series has so much upside I can’t wait till next Monday!
I have another great song for you from Grace Potter and the Nocturnals.
This one has a BIG double meaning. The song is not about what you think from the title. It isn’t about a person at all. What is Grace singing about, really? Hmmm, I wonder. =)
“Ah Mary”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVddqalx9gg
“She’s the beat of my heart, she’s the shot of a gun. She’ll be the end of me, and maybe everyone.”
“Call her a bully, she’ll blow up your whole damn playground…”
“Ah, Mary! She’ll bake you cookies then she’ll burn your town. Ah, Mary! Ashes, ashes, but she won’t fall down.”
—
The other is the classic diddy by Randy Newman: “Political Science.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl5zf8_VmAo
That’s what I mean by adding a bit of “tongue ‘n’ cheek” satirical humor. =)
@ Dan
You’re not the only one who would like to see Cameron actually feel something, and actually wonder if she doesn’t already have some rudimentary emotional abilities that she just doesn’t know what to do with yet. In fact ever since Samson and Delilah when Cameron was pinned between the trucks and said she loved John I actually think she meant it.
The more I ponder it the more I realize that she may very well have been okay at the point right before John removed her Chip. Think about it, what did John actually do to “Fix” her Chip? He basically wiped some dirt off of it and that made it all better? I’m not buying it. After he put the chip back in and she woke up you’ll notice her HUD still said “TERMINATE” for a few seconds before an override popped up. In my mind if he had “fixed” the chip the TERMINATE order wouldn’t have been there when she woke up. My theory is she was/is still “bad” but chose to override the TERMINAE order herself. In other words she is controlling her actions and ignoring the TERMINATE order.
In any case I really REALLY think it will come to light that Cameron does feel or will show signs of feeling more as the show goes on. (It’s a sheer waste Of Summer’s emotional acting style to not to) It will however likely be very late in the show when it all comes to full light during the obligatory death scene that is bound to happen (or not, time travel has a funny way of messing the whole death thing up)
On a side note it also occurs to me that in the Allison from Palmdale Ep that Allison’s death was planned. Cameron tells Allison that she could see why John would choose her for this mission. John sent Allison on a mission knowing she would be captured and a Terminator that looked like her would be made. He knew that Cameron was going to protect him in the past and needed to set in motion the events that would lead to Cameron being made. It might be a cold thing to do, but if he got it right then a future might exist where Allison doesn’t die.
watch camerons face when sarah says look at all there hope and dreams and were going to burn it down she not happy about it and when they are at dinner the kid says that he can put every thing that make you human and put on a chip she smiles .he makes the chip thats in all the terminators that why she has all of the human side of allison young .sarah even said they will get there money its writing is on the wall she is right about the three dots and they lived at end of the show think about it
Oh wow, I absolutely CANNOT wait. I loved this weeks episode. I was thrilled to have Derek interact with Sarah and John again and I’m really happy that Riley and Jessie now have a point. Is it Monday yet?
This isn’t related to the above topic but there’s nowhere else I can write this, but Shirley Manson’s mother died this morning.
I hope all of the TSCC fanbase can send their love to her at this difficult time.
RIP Muriel Manson
My sincere condolences to Ms Manson and her family. What a sad thing to hear.
Wow i am very sorry to hear that. Condolences to you Ms Manson
My condolences to Ms Manson and her family.
That is terrible news. My sincerest condolences to Ms Manson and her family.
My sincerest condolences to Shirley and her family =(
Ms. Manson, I too would like to share my deepest sympathies for you and your family. I’m very sorry to hear of your mom’s passing.
You’re in my thoughts and prayers. There are still many things to be thankful for, of all days, Thanksgiving Day. So please take comfort in that, for what it’s worth.
Take care and we’re all rooting for you.
My condolences to Ms Manson and her family today.
——–
I’m looking forward to next weeks episode. The trailer doesn’t give much away so anything can happen!
Ms Manson, I am sorry for your loss. I lost my mother 3 months before the birth of my son, who is 24 now. She was my best friend. To my way of thinking, mothers are the single greatest resource in this universe.
Question for Zack (if he has time to read while he is writing.) Was the terrific publicity shot of Cameron’s upper body suspended by cables also a reference to (another sexy but cold female) the Borg Queen from ST: First Contact? The image has not been part of any episode aired yet. The implication that Cameron has retained her human personality has great potential to allow her to feel in both senses of that word. Allison would remember hopes and dreams. Even terminators evolve.
My regards to Shirley Manson and her loss while noting that she more than holds her own in a cast with unusually talented female characters. Her cover of Samson and Delilah was exceptional. Her instincts as an actor have been spotless. I hope you find comfort in your continued work.
David,I agree with Shirley’s work. I have read some comments about her acting being bad, but I think she is a superb choice: having no experience AS an actor protraying a secret cyborg.
I think she does a great job, in that how else could you offer a character to the audience that is supposed to be human, but doesn’t quite come off as guenuine? Only a non-actor trying to act could give use the underlying creepiness that is needed for her to be REAL to us. The other way to go would be to have a “fem-bot” from Austin Powers!
I am looking forward to Ellison’s revalations that she is “not quite right;” although he once displayed an overt distrust of her that must have changed since he delivered Cromartie into the one person’s hands that has the power and ability - and interest - to make it happen! Which he already knows will not turn out to be a good thing.
Face it, “our side” is working so secretively they are not even talking with each other, to co-ordinate their activities in a cohesive manner. They don’t even know what the others are doing: which has the net effect of ALL of them working against John in his later efforts to save humanity.
Wow. Maybe the sequal to this series will be called “Miracles.” IF we survive long enough to get to that point no truer word would describe what is happening through all of this - on soooo many levels!
Sorry to hear about Shirley’s mother… That’s sad news indeed, and I hope she’s okay. Keep her in your prayers…
Back on Terminator topic.
I wonder if Cameron will appear in any of the next 3 Terminator movies. We know she isn’t in the 1st one, but it’s possible they could build an arch that would allow her to be in one or both of the follow ups. I guess if enough people ask they’ll consider it.
It’s perhaps a far flung idea but if my lowly imagination can come up with a way to unite the two in the future again, then surely some big name writer can put something together that’s better. Who knows Cameron may very well be the key to defeating Skynet. Maybe she is the only machine to achieve true human emotion and if that quality can be uploaded to Skynet then maybe it changes its perception of humanity, and ends the war. Makes one think doesn’t it. Ending this horrible war by giving the enemy what it has always lacked. Feelings which is the one thing that could have prevented it in the 1st place.
Anyway we know Cameron succeeds in her task at protecting John, and he in turn believes that whatever they accomplish during the events of TSCC averts Judgment day which we know only postpones it according to T3. Well my thinking is what if after they succeed in their mission Cameron is allowed to “live” out her life. It’s an especially poignant question when you consider she may very well end up being very human by the series end and since Terminators can’t self terminate, and the Connors don’t consider themselves murderers they don’t do what should be done by destroying her and she is allowed to disappear. Is it a smart move on behalf of the Connors? No, but it might be the right thing to do.
Fast forward to Judgment day and Cameron survives the fallout but is damaged and shuts herself down as some sort of self preservation measure. Many years pass even past the point where future John sends Cameron back and at some point during the 2nd or 3rd movie which we know will chronicle the end of the war, the resistance finds Cameron and John repairs and reactivates her. It would be priceless, and personally I think the dynamic between her and Christian Bales John Connor would be awesome, and I think would add some interesting dynamics to the characters and would also be a point of interest for the human resistance fighters having to deal with a machine that feels. A big budget movie would also allow Cameron (and Summer) to really show what she can do in combat which we’ve only seen snippets of in the show.
Thoughts? Good idea, bad idea or am I just crazy for thinking it?
Well I heard John Connor buys the farm in Terminator Salvation and is replaced by a terminator, so not too sure how that would play out!
But I hope there is a connection too…I really wish the movies would play off the series rather than the other movies but thats life.
I think TSCC should have a recap of the first 20 episodes right before the first Friday showing. I think BSG did this (I know…mention BSG on the set and you get canned by Josh Friedman!).
It would help the Friday viewer first getting introduced to the series, and also the less fanatic viewers who missed (OMG!) a few episodes, as it seems many may have missed “Strange Things at the 1-2 pt”. And heavily advertise it!
Someone tell me something like that is being considered. I want a 3rd season!
@Josh
If you want to see Summer in combat watch the movie Serenity. Whilst I love TSCC, the combat sequences involving Summer are mundane compared to that of serenity.
I just wanted to say I thought the Terminator franchise was dead. But Summer Glau singlehandedly brought back life into it. Because of her I will spend money on the new Salvation movie and probably the other 2 movies too. And I will buy every DVD of the show but that goes without saying. Unbelievable that such a little girl can wield so much power and I’m talking about Summer, not Cameron.
David:
The famous image of a suspended Cameron torso was done by the marketing people, not us, and I believe is more an homage to a very similar image from Ghost In The Shell.
I never realized that poster was a homage to Ghost In The Shell, very cool. The marketing people have excellent taste in anime.
WE WANT TO SEE JOHN AND CAMERON IN LOVE !!!!!
Greetings from Germany
I like the fact that Cameron Phillips has feelings. I do think it would be a cool thing if she could teach both SkyNet and ‘John Henry’ the fine art of humanity, which she is learning well.
[Quote]1. You’re not the only one who would like to see Cameron actually feel something, and actually wonder if she doesn’t already have some rudimentary emotional abilities that she just doesn’t know what to do with yet. In fact ever since Samson and Delilah when Cameron was pinned between the trucks and said she loved John I actually think she meant it.
The more I ponder it the more I realize that she may very well have been okay at the point right before John removed her Chip. Think about it, what did John actually do to “Fix” her Chip? He basically wiped some dirt off of it and that made it all better? I’m not buying it. After he put the chip back in and she woke up you’ll notice her HUD still said “TERMINATE” for a few seconds before an override popped up. In my mind if he had “fixed” the chip the TERMINATE order wouldn’t have been there when she woke up. My theory is she was/is still “bad” but chose to override the TERMINATE order herself. In other words she is controlling her actions and ignoring the TERMINATE order[/Quote]
I couldn’t agree more. Just think of the craziness that could go on with a cyborg who has all the characteristics of a human female who drives men crazy, yet with the ability to throw them a hundred feet if she got ticked off!
I belive the show doesn’t have to be morbid and ddark outside of the general context of the war tto end Skynet. I think Cameron and John should make inroads into making the future a bright thing for humans and machines. Machines, after all, are very interesting creatures that have to learn ‘the rules of life’ just like the rest of us. I think this is what Shirley Manson’s character (Catherine Weaver) is headed for, and I say, why can’t she and Cameron ‘put their heads together.’ ?
(My condolences to Shirley for her recent loss…much love from a fan…
Love, peace and chicken grease,y’all!
Chas.
CHECK YOUR DVR’S!
Mine was not set to record this coming Monday’s episode, even though I’ve had it set to record the series since the beginning of the season. This is the first problem I’ve had and I think it must have something to do with the altered plan of which episodes air when. Last Monday’s episode information incorrectly listed Self Made Man. My DVR must think this Monday’s episode is a repeat, although it should be recording repeats, too.
I work at night and watch the show as soon as I get home. Even if I was home, I would record it so I can watch it again.
If you’re like me and you don’t want to miss the new episode CHECK YOUR DVR!
One of the existential questions that TSCC
asks is whether or not emotions can be
emulated or learned by “Machines” to such
an extent that humans would not be able to
tell the difference.
Would we humans know or even care if the
displayed or physically expressed results
of “Algorithmic Response to External Stimuli”
essentially MIMICS what we know as emotion?
Would we even care if the mimicry is so good
that it would fool almost all of use
all the time?
How do you writers and producers feel
about becoming the unwitting instigators
for people who might take this show so
seriously that they begin to emulate
the designs and systems showcased
on the show???..i.e. from Star Trek
communicators came flip phones…
so would it be so difficult to
envision SMART but naive people dooming
humanity to a machine dominated future
because they got more than just a few ideas
from a TV show such TSCC?
Do you feel that you have a responsibility
to PREVENT such scenarios happening?
And for your information, just this last
year we have a 1 PetaFlop supercomputer put
in the size of a couple of filing cabinets.
That means 1/100th the power of a human
brain…and by 2010 we’ll have one-fifth
the power of a human brain in the size
of a beer cooler!
So Judgement Day MIGHT be coming faster
than you thought possible….all because
of a bunch of young eggheads who took
your show a little too seriously!
Any Comments?
Some Time Travel Machine arround again ,its FUN !
wait to see that !
One of these days, Cameron is gonna have a Bender moment: “Being a robot’s great, but we don’t have emotions, and sometimes that makes me very sad.” You guys in the writers room should totally work that line in somehow.
I have to tell you guys, over at TSCC, that the show is fantastic! Lena Headey, Tomas Dekker and Summer Glau, Brian Austin Green, Richard T. Jones… and Garett Dillahunt are all great!
I wish though that Sarah could be more tougher, while vulnerable. I wish she would be the person we all know she is or should be; the one who understands what must be done. She doesn’t possess the luxury to be “innocent”. I can tell you that this writing of Sarah is infuriating fans, which is ashame since Sarah Connor is a complex character and Lena Headey is a fantastic actor! So I really hope she is given a “makeover”.
I say: the character of Derek Reese exists at the expense of John and Sarah. Don’t get me wrong, BAG has done a great job and Derek is a great character, but the show’s strength is and should be Sarah & John and thus the focus should be on them, plus throw in the “robot”, they are isolated. Which is great TV!
I do like what you have done with John lately (latest 2 eps), he is portrayed a bit tougher and starts to realize his importance. PLEASE, ignore all this “teen angst” crap every teen apparently has to go through, John Connor is ’suppose’ to be above all that. If you are thinking: “well, that is not interesting”, don’t. Cause you can have all types of conflict, duality etc without going down the cliché route.
Please don’t take what I wrote as an insult, it’s just what I as a viewer, someone on the outside, sees. I do visit a lot of msg boards (imdb primarily), so these things I have touched upon is reinforced by other fans, so use this info in whatever way you think is the best.
PS. While I love the religious angle, less is more.
Prayers for Shirley and family.
Cameron looks very much like a housewife who has caught her husband ‘red-handed’… Wonder if that’s deliberate? LOL
Zack, thanks for clarifying the reference (it certainly influenced the Matrix movies) and thanks for breathing new life into one of the best ideas for a series about the future and the inevitable techno-singularity, the Terminator. I’m a heretic. I thought the worst misstep of the series occurred at the end of T2, no Judgment Day. No JD, no future Armadeggon, no Kyle Reese, No JC, no future meessiah. I actually welcomed T3 and its acceptence that some events can be postponed but not prevented. Sarah’s attempt to save all the children might come at the cost of losing her son. That’s the stuff of Greek tragedy. Or the Song of Isaak (as Josh Friedman has highlighted the biblical roots.) Thanks for remaining true believers and for taking the time.
@Henry A. Eckstein
You probably don’t want to know this but….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(satellites)
Also there is a “John Connor” who can speak Spanish (well a south American variant), he works on air traffic systems in Brazil, well at least one of them does.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/science/rotm/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/15/air_to_air_refuelling_robot_darpa/
Still not to worry. Also look at the date of the skynet sats…. maybe someone or something went back into the 60s
Guess it would be a bit silly to see a Terminator do the Charleston lol
This show sucks I really am mad at the show for going as far as it has and still giving out crappy episodes that do not to me feel like a Terminator every time I watch this show. I did not like this new episode at all going in the 1920s did not make since to me at all I do not watch to understand as I know everything about the Terminator up to this point but with this show I have be lost as to where and what the Terminator is going and all about since Arnold as not been in the Terminator. I am so upset and will not watch the show anymore unless I see that Arnold is in this show.
@Brandon
If you don’t like it, just don’t watch the show… I’m fed up of Arnold fans arguing that the show will be better with him. It will not.
Damn, go rent the Terminator movies and stop bothering real fans of TSCC…
I really liked this episode and it shows that there’s lots of mileage left to explore this universe.
Sorry Brandon, Arnold is too old and well past his prime. Just treat the SCC as a very welcome addition and dont just expect it to be all just about Arnie. Maybe you had better give up wathing it as it seems to upset you so much.
Hey Peter, here is another link to go with your Skynet links.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/19/grand.challenge.weapons
Its the British Ministry Of Defence and their recent challenge to make a battlefield robot. The one that won (T-0.05 perhaps?) has a targeting system very similar to what we see on our beloved Terminators, very scary.
Klaatu barada nikto!